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There are very few things that I dislike about the way Riot handles their game. The way they manage things is I think really their biggest advantage as a company. They're just way better at management and community building than anybody else.
There isn't much that I dislike about their balance methodology either. I want to see captains mode for pro games and a sandbox mode and that's more or less about it at this point.
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On September 07 2015 11:39 AlterKot wrote:
The important part is that the demand for competitive league was huge. I mean, they had to start putting in half-assed features like spectator that was just a champion with a spell that reveals entire map because before they were happy with ammount of champions and balance etc. people already wanted to play tournaments. Weren't first big tournaments even before soloq? Wasn't League meant to be "the casual moba" in comparison to HoN and Dota? (Although maybe it was just it's reputation when I started playing).
I don't think League was ever supposed to be a "casual" moba. Yes, it was supposed to be more accessible for the average person. It was mostly the HoN/DotA fans who gave it that nickname. I don't know if it actually worked against Riot or for it though. It's mostly that they didn't think that it would grow as fast as it did. Sometime during beta, they noticed they had something good going on. It was a weird mix of good luck and good advertising that they were able to catch that wave. At the very least, someone at Riot knew how to move their game over to the Eastern market. To me, DotA2 missed their timing to try to compete with LoL in those markets. It's not exactly unpopular, but the LoL numbers are pretty ridiculous still.
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On the contrary I hate Riot pretty much for all the same reasons RLewis does, I just happen to enjoy some of the core ideas behind actual gameplay.
On September 07 2015 12:01 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2015 11:39 AlterKot wrote:
The important part is that the demand for competitive league was huge. I mean, they had to start putting in half-assed features like spectator that was just a champion with a spell that reveals entire map because before they were happy with ammount of champions and balance etc. people already wanted to play tournaments. Weren't first big tournaments even before soloq? Wasn't League meant to be "the casual moba" in comparison to HoN and Dota? (Although maybe it was just it's reputation when I started playing). I don't think League was ever supposed to be a "casual" moba. Yes, it was supposed to be more accessible for the average person. It's mostly that they didn't think that it would grow as fast as it did. Sometime during beta, they noticed they had something good going on. It was a weird mix of good luck and good advertising that they were able to catch that wave. At the very least, someone at Riot knew how to move their game over to the Eastern market. To me, DotA2 missed their timing to try to compete with LoL in those markets. It's not exactly unpopular, but the LoL numbers are pretty ridiculous still.
Yeah I wasn't as aware about Riot's business doing as I was around S3/S4 so I might be misremembering.
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On September 07 2015 11:51 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2015 11:45 Gahlo wrote:On September 07 2015 11:31 TheYango wrote:
I used to be adamantly against the idea of the company propping up the competitive scene, but I've come around since basically every company developing a competitive game does it now.
The best way to help the competitive scene, though, is 1) to make the game good and to make it popular, and 2) developing features which competitive players need to play the competitive game. Direct support to the competitive scene is all well and good as long as it never overshadows these two points because while anyone in the community can do promotion and publicity, only the developer can actually do these 2 things. I remember back in the day I thought Riot was unfairly inflating League tournaments' stream numbers by embedding streams into the client. That's because people from other games couldn't understand how LoL was pulling in so many viewers. It was a weird bit of misinformation that still shows up sometimes.
I didn't think that they were faking views by having inactive streams count, I just thought it was a bit underhanded that the stream was served to you on a platter while in games like SC2 you had to go find the stream yourself.
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On September 07 2015 12:02 AlterKot wrote:On the contrary I hate Riot pretty much for all the same reasons RLewis does, I just happen to enjoy some of the core ideas behind actual gameplay. Show nested quote +On September 07 2015 12:01 ketchup wrote:On September 07 2015 11:39 AlterKot wrote:
The important part is that the demand for competitive league was huge. I mean, they had to start putting in half-assed features like spectator that was just a champion with a spell that reveals entire map because before they were happy with ammount of champions and balance etc. people already wanted to play tournaments. Weren't first big tournaments even before soloq? Wasn't League meant to be "the casual moba" in comparison to HoN and Dota? (Although maybe it was just it's reputation when I started playing). I don't think League was ever supposed to be a "casual" moba. Yes, it was supposed to be more accessible for the average person. It's mostly that they didn't think that it would grow as fast as it did. Sometime during beta, they noticed they had something good going on. It was a weird mix of good luck and good advertising that they were able to catch that wave. At the very least, someone at Riot knew how to move their game over to the Eastern market. To me, DotA2 missed their timing to try to compete with LoL in those markets. It's not exactly unpopular, but the LoL numbers are pretty ridiculous still. Yeah I wasn't as aware about Riot's business doing as I was around S3/S4 so I might be misremembering.
League hit that sweet spot where streaming matured, DOTA2 wasn't in beta yet, and SC2 backlash in Korea.
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the main things i like about league were ability scaling and the designs of the original 40
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On September 07 2015 12:18 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2015 11:51 ketchup wrote:On September 07 2015 11:45 Gahlo wrote:On September 07 2015 11:31 TheYango wrote:
I used to be adamantly against the idea of the company propping up the competitive scene, but I've come around since basically every company developing a competitive game does it now.
The best way to help the competitive scene, though, is 1) to make the game good and to make it popular, and 2) developing features which competitive players need to play the competitive game. Direct support to the competitive scene is all well and good as long as it never overshadows these two points because while anyone in the community can do promotion and publicity, only the developer can actually do these 2 things. I remember back in the day I thought Riot was unfairly inflating League tournaments' stream numbers by embedding streams into the client. That's because people from other games couldn't understand how LoL was pulling in so many viewers. It was a weird bit of misinformation that still shows up sometimes. I didn't think that they were faking views by having inactive streams count, I just thought it was a bit underhanded that the stream was served to you on a platter while in games like SC2 you had to go find the stream yourself.
Underhanded for actually advertising their tournaments correctly? Not sure I follow the thought process of seeing that as underhanded
On September 07 2015 12:19 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2015 12:02 AlterKot wrote:On the contrary I hate Riot pretty much for all the same reasons RLewis does, I just happen to enjoy some of the core ideas behind actual gameplay. On September 07 2015 12:01 ketchup wrote:On September 07 2015 11:39 AlterKot wrote:
The important part is that the demand for competitive league was huge. I mean, they had to start putting in half-assed features like spectator that was just a champion with a spell that reveals entire map because before they were happy with ammount of champions and balance etc. people already wanted to play tournaments. Weren't first big tournaments even before soloq? Wasn't League meant to be "the casual moba" in comparison to HoN and Dota? (Although maybe it was just it's reputation when I started playing). I don't think League was ever supposed to be a "casual" moba. Yes, it was supposed to be more accessible for the average person. It's mostly that they didn't think that it would grow as fast as it did. Sometime during beta, they noticed they had something good going on. It was a weird mix of good luck and good advertising that they were able to catch that wave. At the very least, someone at Riot knew how to move their game over to the Eastern market. To me, DotA2 missed their timing to try to compete with LoL in those markets. It's not exactly unpopular, but the LoL numbers are pretty ridiculous still. Yeah I wasn't as aware about Riot's business doing as I was around S3/S4 so I might be misremembering. League hit that sweet spot where streaming matured, DOTA2 wasn't in beta yet, and SC2 backlash in Korea.
It wasn't really the sc2 backlash, it was the Blizzard actively attempting to kill SC:BW to push SC2 which was the problem.
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United States15536 Posts
Combo breaker.
I'm five drinks in. Read: damn drunk.
In NYC.
Cafe Wha? is the shit. Comedy Cellar is next. I highly recommend Wha? to NYC visitors who want to get to Greenwich Village. Great music, even (especially) with the house band.
Life is good.
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On September 07 2015 12:01 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2015 11:39 AlterKot wrote:
The important part is that the demand for competitive league was huge. I mean, they had to start putting in half-assed features like spectator that was just a champion with a spell that reveals entire map because before they were happy with ammount of champions and balance etc. people already wanted to play tournaments. Weren't first big tournaments even before soloq? Wasn't League meant to be "the casual moba" in comparison to HoN and Dota? (Although maybe it was just it's reputation when I started playing). I don't think League was ever supposed to be a "casual" moba. Yes, it was supposed to be more accessible for the average person. It was mostly the HoN/DotA fans who gave it that nickname. I don't know if it actually worked against Riot or for it though. It's mostly that they didn't think that it would grow as fast as it did. Sometime during beta, they noticed they had something good going on. It was a weird mix of good luck and good advertising that they were able to catch that wave. At the very least, someone at Riot knew how to move their game over to the Eastern market. To me, DotA2 missed their timing to try to compete with LoL in those markets. It's not exactly unpopular, but the LoL numbers are pretty ridiculous still.
The game wasn't designed to be "casual". The game was designed to walk away from the infrastructure limitation of Warcraft 3 by streamlining the game and the game mechanics.
Remember what were Orb Effects? Mask of Death? And how that's different from the Vampiric Aura? What bypasses BKB and what does not?
That being said, the game was NOT designed to be hardcore either.
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United States23745 Posts
On September 07 2015 12:46 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Combo breaker.
I'm five drinks in. Read: damn drunk.
In NYC.
Cafe Wha? is the shit. Comedy Cellar is next. I highly recommend Wha? to NYC visitors who want to get to Greenwich Village. Great music, even (especially) with the house band.
Life is good.
Oh you Wave now lol? Sounds like you're having fun though.
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United States15536 Posts
On September 07 2015 12:56 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2015 12:46 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Combo breaker.
I'm five drinks in. Read: damn drunk.
In NYC.
Cafe Wha? is the shit. Comedy Cellar is next. I highly recommend Wha? to NYC visitors who want to get to Greenwich Village. Great music, even (especially) with the house band.
Life is good. Oh you Wave now lol? Sounds like you're having fun though.
Wave + spelling. Or maybe I haven't had enough. I'll report back later.
But yeah, hella fun. EST is my jam. Too bad I'm flying out of Newark at 7:25 AM.
BTW, Dungeon of the Endless on iOS is awesome.
And planes give me tons of dungeon planning time. Iris Tuesday. :D
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Oooooooooo, maybe Wave should play that, Dungeon of the Endless is in fact, pretty great. + Show Spoiler +I don't think he has it tho RIP dreams
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On September 07 2015 12:46 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Combo breaker.
I'm five drinks in. Read: damn drunk.
In NYC.
Cafe Wha? is the shit. Comedy Cellar is next. I highly recommend Wha? to NYC visitors who want to get to Greenwich Village. Great music, even (especially) with the house band.
Life is good.
Have fun Asmo.
Get home safely.
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United States15536 Posts
On September 07 2015 13:17 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2015 12:46 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Combo breaker.
I'm five drinks in. Read: damn drunk.
In NYC.
Cafe Wha? is the shit. Comedy Cellar is next. I highly recommend Wha? to NYC visitors who want to get to Greenwich Village. Great music, even (especially) with the house band.
Life is good. Have fun Asmo. Get home safely.
No worries buddeh. I have a sober pal driving me to the airport! It'll work out great!
Fun, on the other hand, IS INEVITABLE.
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And in regards to Wave + spelling (which I REALLY enjoyed, btw), I feel bad bursting some bubbles in here, but the spelling mistakes are less a result of me being too drunk to type and more me not caring enough to go back and correct things while drunk.
Plus it looked funnier.
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United States15536 Posts
On September 07 2015 13:29 WaveofShadow wrote:
And in regards to Wave + spelling (which I REALLY enjoyed, btw), I feel bad bursting some bubbles in here, but the spelling mistakes are less a result of me being too drunk to type and more me not caring enough to go back and correct things while drunk.
Plus it looked funnier.
Wow. The dream is dead.
It did look pretty funny.
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United States23745 Posts
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On September 07 2015 12:26 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2015 12:18 Gahlo wrote:On September 07 2015 11:51 ketchup wrote:On September 07 2015 11:45 Gahlo wrote:On September 07 2015 11:31 TheYango wrote:
I used to be adamantly against the idea of the company propping up the competitive scene, but I've come around since basically every company developing a competitive game does it now.
The best way to help the competitive scene, though, is 1) to make the game good and to make it popular, and 2) developing features which competitive players need to play the competitive game. Direct support to the competitive scene is all well and good as long as it never overshadows these two points because while anyone in the community can do promotion and publicity, only the developer can actually do these 2 things. I remember back in the day I thought Riot was unfairly inflating League tournaments' stream numbers by embedding streams into the client. That's because people from other games couldn't understand how LoL was pulling in so many viewers. It was a weird bit of misinformation that still shows up sometimes. I didn't think that they were faking views by having inactive streams count, I just thought it was a bit underhanded that the stream was served to you on a platter while in games like SC2 you had to go find the stream yourself. Underhanded for actually advertising their tournaments correctly? Not sure I follow the thought process of seeing that as underhanded Show nested quote +On September 07 2015 12:19 Gahlo wrote:On September 07 2015 12:02 AlterKot wrote:On the contrary I hate Riot pretty much for all the same reasons RLewis does, I just happen to enjoy some of the core ideas behind actual gameplay. On September 07 2015 12:01 ketchup wrote:On September 07 2015 11:39 AlterKot wrote:
The important part is that the demand for competitive league was huge. I mean, they had to start putting in half-assed features like spectator that was just a champion with a spell that reveals entire map because before they were happy with ammount of champions and balance etc. people already wanted to play tournaments. Weren't first big tournaments even before soloq? Wasn't League meant to be "the casual moba" in comparison to HoN and Dota? (Although maybe it was just it's reputation when I started playing). I don't think League was ever supposed to be a "casual" moba. Yes, it was supposed to be more accessible for the average person. It's mostly that they didn't think that it would grow as fast as it did. Sometime during beta, they noticed they had something good going on. It was a weird mix of good luck and good advertising that they were able to catch that wave. At the very least, someone at Riot knew how to move their game over to the Eastern market. To me, DotA2 missed their timing to try to compete with LoL in those markets. It's not exactly unpopular, but the LoL numbers are pretty ridiculous still. Yeah I wasn't as aware about Riot's business doing as I was around S3/S4 so I might be misremembering. League hit that sweet spot where streaming matured, DOTA2 wasn't in beta yet, and SC2 backlash in Korea. It wasn't really the sc2 backlash, it was the Blizzard actively attempting to kill SC:BW to push SC2 which was the problem.
Again, that's what I thought at the time. I can acknowledge when I've held stupid beliefs in the past.
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On September 07 2015 13:45 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2015 12:26 ketchup wrote:On September 07 2015 12:18 Gahlo wrote:On September 07 2015 11:51 ketchup wrote:On September 07 2015 11:45 Gahlo wrote:On September 07 2015 11:31 TheYango wrote:
I used to be adamantly against the idea of the company propping up the competitive scene, but I've come around since basically every company developing a competitive game does it now.
The best way to help the competitive scene, though, is 1) to make the game good and to make it popular, and 2) developing features which competitive players need to play the competitive game. Direct support to the competitive scene is all well and good as long as it never overshadows these two points because while anyone in the community can do promotion and publicity, only the developer can actually do these 2 things. I remember back in the day I thought Riot was unfairly inflating League tournaments' stream numbers by embedding streams into the client. That's because people from other games couldn't understand how LoL was pulling in so many viewers. It was a weird bit of misinformation that still shows up sometimes. I didn't think that they were faking views by having inactive streams count, I just thought it was a bit underhanded that the stream was served to you on a platter while in games like SC2 you had to go find the stream yourself. Underhanded for actually advertising their tournaments correctly? Not sure I follow the thought process of seeing that as underhanded On September 07 2015 12:19 Gahlo wrote:On September 07 2015 12:02 AlterKot wrote:On the contrary I hate Riot pretty much for all the same reasons RLewis does, I just happen to enjoy some of the core ideas behind actual gameplay. On September 07 2015 12:01 ketchup wrote:On September 07 2015 11:39 AlterKot wrote:
The important part is that the demand for competitive league was huge. I mean, they had to start putting in half-assed features like spectator that was just a champion with a spell that reveals entire map because before they were happy with ammount of champions and balance etc. people already wanted to play tournaments. Weren't first big tournaments even before soloq? Wasn't League meant to be "the casual moba" in comparison to HoN and Dota? (Although maybe it was just it's reputation when I started playing). I don't think League was ever supposed to be a "casual" moba. Yes, it was supposed to be more accessible for the average person. It's mostly that they didn't think that it would grow as fast as it did. Sometime during beta, they noticed they had something good going on. It was a weird mix of good luck and good advertising that they were able to catch that wave. At the very least, someone at Riot knew how to move their game over to the Eastern market. To me, DotA2 missed their timing to try to compete with LoL in those markets. It's not exactly unpopular, but the LoL numbers are pretty ridiculous still. Yeah I wasn't as aware about Riot's business doing as I was around S3/S4 so I might be misremembering. League hit that sweet spot where streaming matured, DOTA2 wasn't in beta yet, and SC2 backlash in Korea. It wasn't really the sc2 backlash, it was the Blizzard actively attempting to kill SC:BW to push SC2 which was the problem. Again, that's what I thought at the time. I can acknowledge when I've held stupid beliefs in the past.
Ah I misunderstood to mean that you still felt it was underhanded haha. my bad
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My friends like weird anime.
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EPT
