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Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-24 18:48:38
September 24 2016 18:45 GMT
#29041
got punished
good
these players need to stop playing on stream forever
I don't understand how is it not frowned upon more, to rope so much when the only possible benefit is possibly frustrating your opponent
I'm all for playing to win, but this is too fucking much

hope he gets swept this series so we won't get to see him again

control warrior mirror with a roper
someone FUCKING KILL ME
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
September 24 2016 18:51 GMT
#29042
If he's to your left he's gonna force and you'll only draft 2 packs if you end up in one or two of "his" colours. If he's to your right you'll have to deal with 3, sometimes 2, colours, and always the same one.

Pre-release!
People opened Chandra, Nissa, Saheeli Rai, one Masterpiece (sadly for him, Verdurous Gearhulk, still pays the pre-release off at its current price), and several Multiform Wonders, Aetherworks Rocs, Fumigates (one was foil), etc.
+ Show Spoiler [pool and build] +
Here's the pool, get ready to flame me!
The first rares I opened were the U ones so obviously I was thinking I'd go there, and Gonti was the promo (yay! Looks like a fun card).
Let's be serious: all these rares are great. Eliminate Competition requires your build to produce bodies to comfortably get played, the dragon is "only" very good on his own, Electrostatic Pummeler is garbage outside specific builds/conditions, Gonti is value, and the other 3 straight up win the game on their own.
But with the exception of the (garbage) artifact and Eliminate, their costs are all double-coloured, you can't really splash them.

First thoughts are "W has no removal, feels bad" but after counting there's a bunch of decent creatures, a game-winning bomb, a big flyer/good blocker, the Warden as pseudo-removal...
U has two bombs, a big flyer, bounce, draws, a sleep paralysis... but doesn't start playing before turn 3 and lacks creatures. I really want to play the bombs though.
B has several very powerful removal, and a couple fabricate creatures to help make it better (along with the Designs) and some recursion. The creature base is far from the best but in sealed I really like having all this removal.
R has some good cards/removal ("wrath", sparks, etc.) but it doesn't have many cards and lack creatures. I'd rather splash the good ones (hey, they cost RR!).
G is the least "bomby" pool but also my most solid: my only artifact removal, rhinos/tiger as good creatures, a bit of removal, and a way to splash. Because I know I will want to splash, W has no removal and U doesn't have much, I feel like I'll use it.

At first I'm thinking about UG splashing either W or B, but it doesn't give me Unlicensed Disintegration and I really like it. Plus, I don't have the fabricate cards for Eliminate Competition.
BW as a bunch of removal, fabricate and synergies, but I can't splash U, and with the power of its cards...
So I'm settling on BG splashing R for Disintegration and U for the bombs, relying on early game artifacts to make me care less about mana.
Maybe there was a GW (light on removal and bombs) or a UW deck, though. Not so sure about UW, it feels light on creatures.

I started with only 2 islands and 7 forests, but I changed after round 2. I think I should have kept it as was, and added the island only post-sideboard in durdly/bomb-heavy match-ups.

+ Show Spoiler [matches] +
Match 1 vs UG energy/aetherworks marvel
+ Show Spoiler +
He built in front of me, so we kinda knew what each other had.
He's light on creatures and they're fragile so I'm stronger, he can draw/scry a lot with the Puzzleknot and some other cards too, but the core of his deck is Panharmonicon, a couple flyers and high end (Tiger), and Aetherworks Marvel to dig and cast his good cards easily.
At some point he taps out with 3 E to cast it, and I don't kill it with Appetite because I foolishly believe I still have a turn since U puzleknot only gives 2 if he sacs it... but what if he plays one of the U/G energy producers? Marvel doesn't cost mana to activate!
He taps out again for mana (the 3/2 that fetches a land into play) and I kill it next turn... then he tells me he didn't sac the puzzleknot (sac = 6th energy, I forgot that, idiot) because he needed the lands and thought he was fine since I hadn't killed it the previous turn. Almost cost me a bunch.

The second game was very close, I only lived thanks to Filigree Familiar lifegain basically, and after I demolished his board I was on 1 life, had 3 attackers and didn't have lethal if he blocked the bigger one... but had played Gonti the previous turn, hitting 3 lands and Hunt the Weak. I hunted to remove the blocker and swung for the win, thanks to his very own card. Casting Gonti feels sweet!

1-0

Match 2 vs Naya... rares?
+ Show Spoiler +
Game 1 he mulls to 6 on the play, hits some lands but lacks gas and I kill his creatures (1/2 gives a counter to a Tiger, spends 2 energy -> Tidy Conclusion with 2 artifacts out), while I develop a board and keep attacking with Lawless Broker which he takes super long to block (he has Pia so he can easily pump a token to kill anything I grow, including the 5/4 Ambitious Aetherborn), taking a lot of damage.
I have Saheeli's Artistry as backup if needed, but I end up simply having too much stuff for him, as he drew about as any cards and lands than me, but 2 of his cards are Prisms, and I have better removal to keep bigger stuff up.

Game 2 ends up... brutally. He plays Multiform Wonder and since I have some energy my Confiscation Coup in hand can take it, but what if he has other bombs? So I kill it with Appetite, and he casts Wildest Dreams to get it and a removal back. I let him replay it later and steal it (I had Artistry topdecked but I don't know how worth it it is), with 3 leftover E, but the following turn he responds with Verduruous Gearhulk.
So I kinda apologise because what I'm going to do is really really gross... and I make 2 copies of the Gearhulk with Artistry. He smiles and concedes.

2-0

Match 3 vs Abzan bombs to recur
+ Show Spoiler +
I thought he'd be the best deck around but he lost his 4th round match, surprised me.
He had the 10/10 artifact, Skysovereign, Panharmonicon, and basically everything he plays save for lands and a couple spells works with it. Gaining energy, Aviary Mechanic, the BW uncommon, the 1/2 that gives a counter, etc.
When he goes off his deck is disgustingly powerful, and his actual cards aren't even that bad if he doesn't draw/play his synergy early.

Game 1 I get a strong start and push a lot of damage through, leveraging Lawless Broker, Ovalchase Daredevil recurred once and fabricate. However he starts recurring/bouncing stuff and keeps a nice board, and I can't attack anymore once he gets the artifact that gets lifelink for B to a 4/5.
Oh yeah and he only plays the BW when he can bounce it or kept the recurred thing in hand, Wave. He's better than me.
He then plays the Roc, and I know I have answers (Eliminate, Disintegration, Artistry, Coup, etc.), but I have to draw them fast. I topdeck Disintegration and blow up the lifelinker to dome him for 3 (which is exact lethal). He castigates himself for never attacking with the lifelinker instead of using it to keep me back.

Game 2 I get destroyed by the recursion and Skysovereign shows up at the end, plus I stumbled a bit on curve. I'm clearly outmatched once he gets the engine rolling, and my deck isn't very fast/aggressive so I'm not hot.
Game 3 he keeps a 2-lander, then misses his 3rd land drop for a turn, so I have more creatures and pressure him. When he plays a 4/4 for 4 I steal it with Confiscation Coup, then he has to Revoke it. I get removal for stuff he plays and the pushed damage gets me through.

3-0
I got my objective here: going at least 50%, since we only get 5 rounds.

Match 4 vs BW... bombs?
+ Show Spoiler +
He floods slightly game 1, but because he has keys to the city he can still cycle them and play stuff... however it ends up being smaller stuff. I don't get a crazy start or anything either, but the Freighter ends up rolling him over because it's bigger than his stuff and I have removal anyway to ensure the trample damage goes through.

Game 2 he makes me start (round 3 dude did too), I mull to 5, him to 6. I keep a 1-lander, scry bottom, play my land... then don't do shit until turn 8 where I finally get a 2nd land in 13 cards. I die the very next turn.
Game 3 I make him start because I really don't want to lose my chance to get into finals to mana issues so I wanna draw more. Mull to 6, keep a 2-lander (island/swamp) with 2-drops (cobra and servant, so I can even ramp to 4 if I hit a forest/hub in 2 draws) and 3-drops (B so all I need is a land). I'll miss a 3rd land drop 2 turns in a row (3rd land is 12th card), it's another swamp, and he plays Roc then the Mythic Angel. With a Forest I'd have Take Down for one, and a Conduit in play so another land would let me Tidy Conclusion the other, and I'd be hugely ahead thanks to killing his 2 bombs, but hey, sometimes you don't get to play.

I'm not frustrated about losing (from what I saw my deck is stronger because better creatures overall, and more/better removal so I can deal with his bombs better, plus mine are usually 2-for-1 anyway so if he burns removal on it it's even better), but rather about only playing a single game, and even then he was slowed by his cycling (sure he didn't have to do it, but he chose to and obviously it kept him at 2-3 effective mana these turns).
Plus 4-1 would put me in finals with my best result ever (better currently is 6th out of 36).

3-1 to mana variance

Match 5 vs BG midrange
+ Show Spoiler +
I actually watched him play a match (vs my round 1 opponent who went off with Panharmonicon and crushed him, but he'd already lost the Bo3, it was a friendly) because I thought they were lower and didn't realise he was a potential opponent. So I know he's got flyers and the Rush of Vitality trick in multiples.
Game 1 it takes him a bit of time to find his second colour but he still plays stuff. However, he misreads Daredevil at first and doesn't get that I bring it back to hand, so he trades a 2-drop with it. I proceed to crush him with it because I keep ramming it in (always ends up blocked, 4 damage is a lot), then playing an artifact/fabricate to get it back to hand, play it again the following turn, and do it again. Workhorse.
Upon seeing me with 4 colours in 6-7 lands (and considering I had more lands than spells at that time) he and a guy watching us start making impressed sounds and calling me lucky and talk about my rares (I used Weaponcraft Enthusiast to get Daredevil back, then sac'd them to Eliminate). Well, duh, do you want me to play the Pummeler instead? And yes I'm lucky to get my lands so fast but I splash for the late game anyway, they cost 5 and 6 mana ffs.
'cept the Disintegration which I did use on him with an artifact on, yeah. "Oh such good cards"—yeah well I splashed for it, you didn't splash, shut up.

Game 2 I have my 3rd "you'll get stuck on lands" game after mulling to 6, keeping a 2-lander, and missing my 3rd land drop 2-3 times. Enough that he basically kills me before I can start playing anything (when I start finding stuff he gets his +2/+0 equipment and has 2 screechers, woulda competed had I had a land 2 turns earlier but whatever).

Game 3 I decide again to draw just in case. Mull to 6, keep 2-lander, have a forest and rhino and stuff in hand, but 3rd land takes two turns to come, 4th comes later too, and my opponent plays on curve and has deathtouch so I can't even use the rhino to keep him at bay (cobra, then the 1B 3/2 deathtouch since he has an artifact), and when I play the rhino he kills it with Hunt the Weak on the cobra.
I have Appetite for his Multiform Wonder next turn but I'm too low anyway, fuck it.

Kinda bored, he played a rather bland deck which is mainly good bodies from the BG creatures, the tricks since he doesn't have much removal or vehicles (and they do work, esp. if he can keep his flyers alive and use them when they get blocked, that's huge tempo for him), so clearly with a couple creatures to threaten a race/blocks, I'd just wait for my removal and blow him out, plus I had my U bombs to get better mileage than him in the late game.
But I never got mana.

3-2, mana screw too strong

I end up 6th out of 24. Not bad, sure, but considering that out of the 5 games I dropped, 4 were purely to mana issues (the 5th one had mana issues too but not as glaring) and basically my last 2 matches were 100% decided by mana (match 4 win also had my opponent's slight flood so the whole match was kinda bland for both of us :/ ), well... let's just say I'm a bit grumpy. Not salty, but annoyed since I feel like I had a shot at doing better and it was taken without any opportunities for me.
I end up with 6 packs (2 of KLD, wotc didn't give enough stuff for all prizes to be KLD), 4-1 would have been 8 (4 KLD) or even 12 had I won the 4th match (secured a top 2 spot, winner had 14 packs but I doubt I'd go 5-0). Woulda paid for a draft too with a single game win more.

+ Show Spoiler [what I learnt] +
Mana hates me.

Ovalchase Daredevil is really, really good. I thought "meh, it dies easily" but since it does so much damage it can block well, and even if you attack and they chump with servos it's almost a card for them and when you bring it back they'll run out eventually. It's clearly a better BW/BG card since then fabricate helps getting it back but it gets work done when it comes to wearing people down.

G's creatures are pretty dumb, and R doesn't seem to be as fast/aggressive as I thought (clearly it can have very powerful starts but they aren't as common as I'd thought).
The format overall doesn't seem very fast, but it punishes you missing a land drop or an early creature hard. Think not finding something to trade with landfall creatures in BFZ (and assuming G isn't as terrible in draft).
The tempo from energy and stuff requiring setups and thriving creatures is very harsh.

It's hard to fit tricks, since removal is good and plentiful and usually cheap-ish, so even unless they're really good (think G hexproof one or subtle strike, or rush of vitality as protection) I wouldn't really play around it / pick it very high.

Energy is... weird, a bit. When you know what to expect from your opponent there's a sense of inevitability since you can't really get tapped out on energy, compared to mana, and if you know they have a good outlet (like the Marvels match 1, or the red pinger) in their deck, when they have the energy to use it asap you can feel pressured.
On the other hand it also depends on how they get their energy. But you actually gain it a lot easier than I thought, the G common, the Aether Theorist, thriving creatures on blocking/crewing duty, etc. can provide, and repeatable sources (or puzzleknot if you have enough synergy to justify running it) do work.

Splashing is hard as fuck. There's no lands at uncommon like in SOI, or they require energy, although it seems very easy for G. Give me a couple Attune with Aether in my sealed pool and it would have improved leaps and bounds in the games that don't get decided before I get to 5-6 mana.
But double costs are everywhere on good cards (save some U/G ones, and common removal) so the tax is real.

Gearseeker Serpent is as good as it looks. I've watched people stabilise the board, play it, and come back with a couple unblockable swings if the opponent didn't have removal available.

Flyers aren't as weak as ground creatures because of fabricate, so they're actually better than they look (and better than in SOI / non-rares EMN I think) since they can race decently and there aren't that many ways to block them. 2/3 flyers/reach are great as roadblocks.

The magic number for creatures and removal seems to be 4 toughness.

Format felt more bomb heavy than both SOI and EMN. I don't remember BFZ block so can't really talk about it (I don't remember BFZ being very bomb-driven).
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
September 24 2016 18:56 GMT
#29043
On September 25 2016 03:45 Scip wrote:
got punished
good
these players need to stop playing on stream forever
I don't understand how is it not frowned upon more, to rope so much when the only possible benefit is possibly frustrating your opponent
I'm all for playing to win, but this is too fucking much

hope he gets swept this series so we won't get to see him again

control warrior mirror with a roper
someone FUCKING KILL ME

It's hilariously dumb. The guy even roped then played his card draw spell with mana up. How does that make any freaking sense. Pretty sure it's just some circlejerk thinking it's more "skillful" to rope or something.

Magic sees the inverse of this. A legacy miracle player(One of the slowest control decks) normally takes his turns incredibly quickly. HS needs some fucking slow play rules or something.
sung_moon
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10110 Posts
September 24 2016 19:02 GMT
#29044
On September 25 2016 03:56 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2016 03:45 Scip wrote:
got punished
good
these players need to stop playing on stream forever
I don't understand how is it not frowned upon more, to rope so much when the only possible benefit is possibly frustrating your opponent
I'm all for playing to win, but this is too fucking much

hope he gets swept this series so we won't get to see him again

control warrior mirror with a roper
someone FUCKING KILL ME

It's hilariously dumb. The guy even roped then played his card draw spell with mana up. How does that make any freaking sense. Pretty sure it's just some circlejerk thinking it's more "skillful" to rope or something.

Magic sees the inverse of this. A legacy miracle player(One of the slowest control decks) normally takes his turns incredibly quickly. HS needs some fucking slow play rules or something.


Reminds me of when I used to tune into live streams of Pro Tours, Tomoharu Saito would spend like 2 seconds on his turn, then slap the shit out of himself during his opponents turns.
Forever Young
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
September 24 2016 19:04 GMT
#29045
I think it'd be fair to cut the player's purse if they take more than, say, 35s on turn on average
they lower viewership = tournament income, they get their purse cut
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 24 2016 19:07 GMT
#29046
On September 25 2016 04:04 Scip wrote:
I think it'd be fair to cut the player's purse if they take more than, say, 35s on turn on average
they lower viewership = tournament income, they get their purse cut

Magic just uses round time limits rather than individual turn limits, so even if you can go deep in the tank on individual turns, you're still generally encouraged to play fast if you don't want to get a draw from going to time.
Moderator
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
September 24 2016 19:09 GMT
#29047
On September 25 2016 04:07 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2016 04:04 Scip wrote:
I think it'd be fair to cut the player's purse if they take more than, say, 35s on turn on average
they lower viewership = tournament income, they get their purse cut

Magic just uses round time limits rather than individual turn limits, so even if you can go deep in the tank on individual turns, you're still generally encouraged to play fast if you don't want to get a draw from going to time.

that'd obviously be the dream solution, but it'd require blizzard to implement something like that into the game, which just isn't going to happen
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
September 24 2016 19:16 GMT
#29048
It is quite amazing how little work they put into HS basic features. Is it just a mobile game market thing?
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
September 24 2016 19:19 GMT
#29049
On September 25 2016 04:16 Numy wrote:
It is quite amazing how little work they put into HS basic features. Is it just a mobile game market thing?

I think it's a CURRENT YEAR thing
just how long did it take Riot to implement replays and spectator mode -,-
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
September 24 2016 19:42 GMT
#29050
Wait Riot has replays now?
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
September 24 2016 19:55 GMT
#29051
On September 25 2016 04:42 Ketara wrote:
Wait Riot has replays now?

err no but they are possible through 3rd party
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 24 2016 20:13 GMT
#29052
P sure Ketara was still playing League when 3rd party replays became available.
Moderator
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
September 24 2016 20:14 GMT
#29053
On September 25 2016 04:16 Numy wrote:
It is quite amazing how little work they put into HS basic features. Is it just a mobile game market thing?

They just don't have to. HS is a mobile game or something you do in the background.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
September 24 2016 20:30 GMT
#29054
Why are Yango and Nafta both trollman.

I don't even remember his name.

Trogdor? Trudge?

Oh Trundle right.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
September 24 2016 20:33 GMT
#29055
On September 25 2016 05:30 Ketara wrote:
Why are Yango and Nafta both trollman.

I don't even remember his name.

Trogdor? Trudge?

Oh Trundle right.

Started maining him at the start of this season so I changed it.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 24 2016 20:41 GMT
#29056
I was Trundle from when LL came into existence and just didn't change it since then.
Moderator
Eppa!
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden4641 Posts
September 24 2016 21:04 GMT
#29057
I also have the troll tyvm
"Can't wait till Monday" Cixah+Waveofshadow. "Needs to be monday. Weekend please go by quickly." Gahlo
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
September 24 2016 23:17 GMT
#29058
Well, my grad school friend who was alcoholic died today. I guess it was expected, but it still sucks. :/
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
September 24 2016 23:17 GMT
#29059
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-24 23:52:14
September 24 2016 23:51 GMT
#29060
I don't know how late I am, but he did it. Galt got to Diamond.

African hyperbolic time chamber is real.
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