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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On September 12 2016 00:40 Requizen wrote: They want RNG to be part of the game. So either you like that or you don't enjoy HS. That's not how games work you can enjoy SOME RNG (and SOME RNG will always be part of the game, being a card game and stuff) but condoning some RNG doesn't commit you to condoning ALL kinds of RNG. Now I'm the king of "don't like it, don't play it" brigade, but given that PX is clearly close to liking the game, complaining that RNG in HS is shit (especially when it is more shit now than it has been ever before) isn't that unreasonable don't have to always bully PX we have more than enough opportunities to do it justifiably xD | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 12 2016 00:45 Scip wrote: That's not how games work you can enjoy SOME RNG (and SOME RNG will always be part of the game, being a card game and stuff) but condoning some RNG doesn't commit you to condoning ALL kinds of RNG. Yeah i'm totally cool with deck related RNG, and stuff like rag, in general. CThun is weird RNG in that he can only RNG himself bad for the player who uses him but it's fine. It's the swingy, game decided on turn 10-11 by total random chance that is horseshit. the previous 9-10 turns were meaningless. Even stuff like Burglar rogue is fine because the RNG is ultimately controllable or guidable by a player. but it's so frustrating when people just lift their arms and RNG decides the game. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On September 12 2016 00:45 Scip wrote: That's not how games work you can enjoy SOME RNG (and SOME RNG will always be part of the game, being a card game and stuff) but condoning some RNG doesn't commit you to condoning ALL kinds of RNG. Now I'm the king of "don't like it, don't play it" brigade, but given that PX is clearly close to liking the game, complaining that RNG in HS is shit (especially when it is more shit now than it has been ever before) isn't that unreasonable don't have to always bully PX we have more than enough opportunities to do it justifiably xD The thing is people complained about the crazy RNG they were putting in two years ago with GvG but then Blizzard just kept adding even more RNG constantly. That's clearly the direction they want the game in so Req is perfectly right. The boat on HS has sailed long ago. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 12 2016 00:56 Numy wrote: The thing is people complained about the crazy RNG they were putting in two years ago with GvG but then Blizzard just kept adding even more RNG constantly. That's clearly the direction they want the game in so Req is perfectly right. The boat on HS has sailed long ago. They did immediately rotate GvG out when they finally could. so there is hope they'll be rotating some of it out. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 12 2016 01:05 Requizen wrote: They've made it clear that they don't want it to be a competitive game, at least not in their formats. The fact that they're supporting Firebat's "community comp" format means that they don't mind people playing competitively, but Blizz LOVES when someone plops down Yogg and wins/loses the game immediately. They LOVE Knife Juggler -> Forbidden Ritual into random removal/lethal. They like "play cards, something WACKY happens", and that's never going to go away. I mean when you get me that quote i'll believe it. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On September 12 2016 00:45 Scip wrote: That's not how games work you can enjoy SOME RNG (and SOME RNG will always be part of the game, being a card game and stuff) but condoning some RNG doesn't commit you to condoning ALL kinds of RNG. Now I'm the king of "don't like it, don't play it" brigade, but given that PX is clearly close to liking the game, complaining that RNG in HS is shit (especially when it is more shit now than it has been ever before) isn't that unreasonable don't have to always bully PX we have more than enough opportunities to do it justifiably xD There are also good types of rng and bad types of rng. Discover is a good one while rag is a bad one. And Yog should be a "fun" card. Not something people play if they are trying to be serious. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 12 2016 01:22 nafta wrote: bad types of rng Every variation of "summon a random minion". They're also a pretty good example of how Blizzard add's RNG for RNG's sake, given that most of them could easily be made into lower-variance cards without significantly affecting how they play. Good thing they added 5 of them in the new set! | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On September 12 2016 01:11 PrinceXizor wrote: I mean when you get me that quote i'll believe it. Who needs a quote? Of the 5 Legendaries in ONIK, 3 of them have RNG effects, with one of them being aomng the most busted the game has seen yet (Barnes). 5 Portal cards that summon random minions (I've had Firelands Portal summon the 7/6 against me twice now, costing me one game and nearly the other). Old Gods introduced Yogg (and to an extent, C'thun). If they didn't want random game-ending shit to happen, they wouldn't print it. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On September 12 2016 01:05 Requizen wrote: They've made it clear that they don't want it to be a competitive game, at least not in their formats. The fact that they're supporting Firebat's "community comp" format means that they don't mind people playing competitively, but Blizz LOVES when someone plops down Yogg and wins/loses the game immediately. They LOVE Knife Juggler -> Forbidden Ritual into random removal/lethal. They like "play cards, something WACKY happens", and that's never going to go away. They don't want it to be a competitive game? The invitational and other such tournaments would have me believe otherwise. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 12 2016 01:52 WaveofShadow wrote: They don't want it to be a competitive game? The invitational and other such tournaments would have me believe otherwise. Like Req said, they are fine with it being played competitively, but they're very unlikely to make actual design decisions that benefit competitive play. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On September 12 2016 01:52 WaveofShadow wrote: They don't want it to be a competitive game? The invitational and other such tournaments would have me believe otherwise. They happy with the marketing the competitive tournaments give but don't care about actually taking steps to make the scene healthy or the game reward competitive play. They want skill to be as little a factor as possible while still promoting the illusion that it isn't. Imagine an even worse Riot. That's Blizzard HS team. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On September 12 2016 01:52 WaveofShadow wrote: They don't want it to be a competitive game? The invitational and other such tournaments would have me believe otherwise. I mean, you can pay people to play anything you want, but as long as the game still have cards that basically read "disregard game up until this point, end with random conditions", it's not going to feel like the good players are actually better than the lucky ones. Like, imagine if you were playing BW and were winning the game, but then they randomly got max minerals and gas and extra buildings because they found a secret rune on the map that only they could pick up. But also sometimes the rune just destroyed all your buildings instead. Would BW be competitive? | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On September 12 2016 02:11 Numy wrote: They happy with the marketing the competitive tournaments give but don't care about actually taking steps to make the scene healthy or the game reward competitive play. They want skill to be as little a factor as possible while still promoting the illusion that it isn't. Imagine an even worse Riot. That's Blizzard HS team. How are they worse? Riot keeps pretending they care about competitive when all they want is to make it as close to soloq as possible. Literally their only goal is to make it as structured and as close to soloq as possible to try and get more viewers lol. Don't forget dropping some "competitive integrity" from time to time. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
Its a card game designed by people who enjoy playing kitchen table magic who also work at blizzard. I'm literally 50% of that requirement. Getting mad at RNG in HS is the exact same as getting 20 in blackjack, staying. And watching the dealer flip 21. Bad things happen to everyone in HS. Complaining about it is just as bad as the old guy who's clearly got a gambling problem outside of a casino asking for someone to pay for him to play a hand. Just relax, ladder if you enjoy it and build crazy shit. Or build something that goes to face, or build yogg. Tilt never helps, in blackjack or HS. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On September 12 2016 02:32 nafta wrote: How are they worse? Riot keeps pretending they care about competitive when all they want is to make it as close to soloq as possible. Literally their only goal is to make it as structured and as close to soloq as possible to try and get more viewers lol. Don't forget dropping some "competitive integrity" from time to time. They worse because Riot actually tries sometimes while Blizzard doesn't give two shits. Problem is just Riot is rather egotistical so they always try reinvent the wheel but really you can see them improving every now and then. The other issue is how big they are with relatively isolated units. Esports guys try do something to keep integrity then balance guys just say fuck it etc. or the balance guys do a good job then the map design team just says fuck it. Look I'm the first one to hop on the Riot bashing train but Blizzard HS is just the pinnacle of terrible teams. Pretty sure they only get eclipsed by other random games that are never relevant or that I just don't know about. So yea, enjoy HS for the random hype moments of whacky stuff and the relatively simple clean interface. Don't try make it something it's not. I said that about the competitive scene two years ago, guys forcing a blizzard title to be something it's not and now complaining about it. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On September 12 2016 02:42 Numy wrote: They worse because Riot actually tries sometimes while Blizzard doesn't give two shits. Problem is just Riot is rather egotistical so they always try reinvent the wheel but really you can see them improving every now and then. The other issue is how big they are with relatively isolated units. Esports guys try do something to keep integrity then balance guys just say fuck it etc. or the balance guys do a good job then the map design team just says fuck it. Look I'm the first one to hop on the Riot bashing train but Blizzard HS is just the pinnacle of terrible teams. Pretty sure they only get eclipsed by other random games that are never relevant or that I just don't know about. So yea, enjoy HS for the random hype moments of whacky stuff and the relatively simple clean interface. Don't try make it something it's not. I said that about the competitive scene two years ago, guys forcing a blizzard title to be something it's not and now complaining about it. But they said they want HS to be just a casual game you play from time to time before it even got released lol. It was never intended to be a competitive one. So I don't see a problem with it not being a good competitive game. | ||
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