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On October 10 2014 04:46 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I faced a Duck Hunt Dog the other night that made me rage harder than I ever have at smash. Absolutely no fucking idea what to do against him, his coverage options are just absolutely insane.
Yeah, he's pretty brutal, between him, Rosalina, and Robin, there are a lot of new high-zoning characters.
I think the trick is to get "inside" of his projectiles. The can and disc can only go forward from him, so once you're in he just has attacks and the sheriff. Doing that is pretty hard, though, and he might just jump back and forth over them.
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Play custom samus.
From what I've seen her slow missiles are fucking ridiculous.
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On October 10 2014 04:49 WaveofShadow wrote:
Play custom samus.
From what I've seen her slow missiles are fucking ridiculous.
No customs allowed in For Glory, and I've been really lazy about unlocking all of them for the other modes. Grinding them out in Smash Run or Classic gets really boring imo.
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Playing a stock character with a custom move set is still the dumbest and most asinine thing ever in my mind. When I said the other day that custom sets probably shouldn't be allowed in competitive, I was talking about Mii sets. I am 100% adamant that custom sets should not be allowed on a cast character.
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United States23745 Posts
On October 10 2014 04:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Playing a stock character with a custom move set is still the dumbest and most asinine thing ever in my mind. When I said the other day that custom sets probably shouldn't be allowed in competitive, I was talking about Mii sets. I am 100% adamant that custom sets should not be allowed on a cast character.
A lot of well respected people in the community are strangely for it, most notably Prog.
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On October 10 2014 04:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Playing a stock character with a custom move set is still the dumbest and most asinine thing ever in my mind. When I said the other day that custom sets probably shouldn't be allowed in competitive, I was talking about Mii sets. I am 100% adamant that custom sets should not be allowed on a cast character.
I don't see what the problem is here at all.
Eventually a meta will form where only the 'best' movements are used, and then you'll see someone who picks a different set that counters some shit and changes the meta.... It creates interesting dynamics to match up imo.
Where do you see a problem?
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On October 10 2014 04:54 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 04:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Playing a stock character with a custom move set is still the dumbest and most asinine thing ever in my mind. When I said the other day that custom sets probably shouldn't be allowed in competitive, I was talking about Mii sets. I am 100% adamant that custom sets should not be allowed on a cast character. A lot of well respected people in the community are strangely for it, most notably Prog.
I can sort of understand, but at the same time I mostly agree with Soniv. Additionally, the "competitive" mode on the game itself (For Glory) doesn't allow Mii Fighters and Custom Moves, so if there is going to be a competitive scene, making it different from the "ladder" doesn't really make too much sense.
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United States23745 Posts
On October 10 2014 05:00 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 04:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Playing a stock character with a custom move set is still the dumbest and most asinine thing ever in my mind. When I said the other day that custom sets probably shouldn't be allowed in competitive, I was talking about Mii sets. I am 100% adamant that custom sets should not be allowed on a cast character. I don't see what the problem is here at all. Eventually a meta will form where only the 'best' movements are used, and then you'll see someone who picks a different set that counters some shit and changes the meta.... It creates interesting dynamics to match up imo. Where do you see a problem?
It just seems so...not Smash.
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A lot of things Nintendo does with the series could be considered 'not smash'
Brawl is smash and people consider it 'not smash'
The point that that they're not allowed in for glory though is probably the best argument.
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On October 10 2014 05:00 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 04:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Playing a stock character with a custom move set is still the dumbest and most asinine thing ever in my mind. When I said the other day that custom sets probably shouldn't be allowed in competitive, I was talking about Mii sets. I am 100% adamant that custom sets should not be allowed on a cast character. I don't see what the problem is here at all. Eventually a meta will form where only the 'best' movements are used, and then you'll see someone who picks a different set that counters some shit and changes the meta.... It creates interesting dynamics to match up imo. Where do you see a problem?
It goes back to what I said the first time around - having any sort of customization means that each time you face the same character, it could be completely different. The beauty of smash the way it is currently is that you know everything about the character your facing going into the fight - there is no deviation from damage done, knock back, chain grab/combo %s, etc. Everything is based on your execution of all of this built up knowledge, and that gets thrown out the window if people can change movesets.
Cixah's argument for it was that he's covering his character's weaknesses by changing the sets. But...that's the entire point of the characters - they all have their strengths and weaknesses in varying degrees. Adding customization changes the number of potential characters from X to Y number of variations of X, which makes trying to prepare, plan, practice, and counter things ridiculously complex to a level that shouldn't be in smash.
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United States23745 Posts
I'm so close to downloading Smash...
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Questionable Content is so good.
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On October 10 2014 05:02 WaveofShadow wrote:
A lot of things Nintendo does with the series could be considered 'not smash'
Brawl is smash and people consider it 'not smash'
The point that that they're not allowed in for glory though is probably the best argument.
They're probably blocked in For Glory because of availability. Some people will want to play the mode, not have their options unlocked, and bitch about it.
On October 10 2014 05:06 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 05:00 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 10 2014 04:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Playing a stock character with a custom move set is still the dumbest and most asinine thing ever in my mind. When I said the other day that custom sets probably shouldn't be allowed in competitive, I was talking about Mii sets. I am 100% adamant that custom sets should not be allowed on a cast character. I don't see what the problem is here at all. Eventually a meta will form where only the 'best' movements are used, and then you'll see someone who picks a different set that counters some shit and changes the meta.... It creates interesting dynamics to match up imo. Where do you see a problem? It goes back to what I said the first time around - having any sort of customization means that each time you face the same character, it could be completely different. The beauty of smash the way it is currently is that you know everything about the character your facing going into the fight - there is no deviation from damage done, knock back, chain grab/combo %s, etc. Everything is based on your execution of all of this built up knowledge, and that gets thrown out the window if people can change movesets. Cixah's argument for it was that he's covering his characters weaknesses by changing the sets. But...that's the entire point of the characters - they all have their strengths and weaknesses in varying degrees. Adding customization changes the number of potential characters from X to Y number of variations of X, which makes trying to prepare, plan, practice, and counter things ridiculously complex to a level that shouldn't be in smash.
In the same manner, custom sets could let a fighter change a few minor things that takes a matchup from god awful to just a disadvantage. This could cause more fighters to be competitively viable. People give League a lot of shit for not having a wide competitive pool when it encompasses about half the champions, according to worlds. Meanwhile, Melee(according to the top 16 of EVO has 11, which is ~ 42% with 6 players playing exclusively Fox. If the same character range were to be brought out in Sm4sh, it would look awful due to a roster of over double the size.
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United States23745 Posts
On October 10 2014 05:19 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 05:02 WaveofShadow wrote:
A lot of things Nintendo does with the series could be considered 'not smash'
Brawl is smash and people consider it 'not smash'
The point that that they're not allowed in for glory though is probably the best argument. They're probably blocked in For Glory because of availability. Some people will want to play the mode, not have their options unlocked, and bitch about it. Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 05:06 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 10 2014 05:00 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 10 2014 04:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Playing a stock character with a custom move set is still the dumbest and most asinine thing ever in my mind. When I said the other day that custom sets probably shouldn't be allowed in competitive, I was talking about Mii sets. I am 100% adamant that custom sets should not be allowed on a cast character. I don't see what the problem is here at all. Eventually a meta will form where only the 'best' movements are used, and then you'll see someone who picks a different set that counters some shit and changes the meta.... It creates interesting dynamics to match up imo. Where do you see a problem? It goes back to what I said the first time around - having any sort of customization means that each time you face the same character, it could be completely different. The beauty of smash the way it is currently is that you know everything about the character your facing going into the fight - there is no deviation from damage done, knock back, chain grab/combo %s, etc. Everything is based on your execution of all of this built up knowledge, and that gets thrown out the window if people can change movesets. Cixah's argument for it was that he's covering his characters weaknesses by changing the sets. But...that's the entire point of the characters - they all have their strengths and weaknesses in varying degrees. Adding customization changes the number of potential characters from X to Y number of variations of X, which makes trying to prepare, plan, practice, and counter things ridiculously complex to a level that shouldn't be in smash. In the same manner, custom sets could let a fighter change a few minor things that takes a matchup from god awful to just a disadvantage. This could cause more fighters to be competitively viable. People give League a lot of shit for not having a wide competitive pool when it encompasses about half the champions, according to worlds. Meanwhile, Melee(according to the top 16 of EVO has 11, which is ~ 42% with 6 players playing exclusively Fox. If the same character range were to be brought out in Sm4sh, it would look awful due to a roster of over double the size.
Honestly surprised it was 11.
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On October 10 2014 05:19 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 05:02 WaveofShadow wrote:
A lot of things Nintendo does with the series could be considered 'not smash'
Brawl is smash and people consider it 'not smash'
The point that that they're not allowed in for glory though is probably the best argument. They're probably blocked in For Glory because of availability. Some people will want to play the mode, not have their options unlocked, and bitch about it. Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 05:06 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 10 2014 05:00 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 10 2014 04:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Playing a stock character with a custom move set is still the dumbest and most asinine thing ever in my mind. When I said the other day that custom sets probably shouldn't be allowed in competitive, I was talking about Mii sets. I am 100% adamant that custom sets should not be allowed on a cast character. I don't see what the problem is here at all. Eventually a meta will form where only the 'best' movements are used, and then you'll see someone who picks a different set that counters some shit and changes the meta.... It creates interesting dynamics to match up imo. Where do you see a problem? It goes back to what I said the first time around - having any sort of customization means that each time you face the same character, it could be completely different. The beauty of smash the way it is currently is that you know everything about the character your facing going into the fight - there is no deviation from damage done, knock back, chain grab/combo %s, etc. Everything is based on your execution of all of this built up knowledge, and that gets thrown out the window if people can change movesets. Cixah's argument for it was that he's covering his characters weaknesses by changing the sets. But...that's the entire point of the characters - they all have their strengths and weaknesses in varying degrees. Adding customization changes the number of potential characters from X to Y number of variations of X, which makes trying to prepare, plan, practice, and counter things ridiculously complex to a level that shouldn't be in smash. In the same manner, custom sets could let a fighter change a few minor things that takes a matchup from god awful to just a disadvantage. This could cause more fighters to be competitively viable. People give League a lot of shit for not having a wide competitive pool when it encompasses about half the champions, according to worlds. Meanwhile, Melee(according to the top 16 of EVO has 11, which is ~ 42% with 6 players playing exclusively Fox. If the same character range were to be brought out in Sm4sh, it would look awful due to a roster of over double the size.
The people who complain about the competitive pool in league are idiotic.
If you want to be able to change your set to make a matchup more favorable, then learn a secondary. Fill in your weaknesses with already established characters. Or learn to work around your weaknesses. I'm all for custom sets for funsies, but they have no place in a competitive atmosphere.
edit - maybe I'm just looking at it from a different perspective. I have absolutely no issues with the size of the competitive pool in melee, especially because in the last 1-2 years the pool has "opened up" a bit with people like Axe and aMSa playing unconventional characters astonishingly well.
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United States23745 Posts
On October 10 2014 05:25 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 05:19 Gahlo wrote:On October 10 2014 05:02 WaveofShadow wrote:
A lot of things Nintendo does with the series could be considered 'not smash'
Brawl is smash and people consider it 'not smash'
The point that that they're not allowed in for glory though is probably the best argument. They're probably blocked in For Glory because of availability. Some people will want to play the mode, not have their options unlocked, and bitch about it. On October 10 2014 05:06 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 10 2014 05:00 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 10 2014 04:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Playing a stock character with a custom move set is still the dumbest and most asinine thing ever in my mind. When I said the other day that custom sets probably shouldn't be allowed in competitive, I was talking about Mii sets. I am 100% adamant that custom sets should not be allowed on a cast character. I don't see what the problem is here at all. Eventually a meta will form where only the 'best' movements are used, and then you'll see someone who picks a different set that counters some shit and changes the meta.... It creates interesting dynamics to match up imo. Where do you see a problem? It goes back to what I said the first time around - having any sort of customization means that each time you face the same character, it could be completely different. The beauty of smash the way it is currently is that you know everything about the character your facing going into the fight - there is no deviation from damage done, knock back, chain grab/combo %s, etc. Everything is based on your execution of all of this built up knowledge, and that gets thrown out the window if people can change movesets. Cixah's argument for it was that he's covering his characters weaknesses by changing the sets. But...that's the entire point of the characters - they all have their strengths and weaknesses in varying degrees. Adding customization changes the number of potential characters from X to Y number of variations of X, which makes trying to prepare, plan, practice, and counter things ridiculously complex to a level that shouldn't be in smash. In the same manner, custom sets could let a fighter change a few minor things that takes a matchup from god awful to just a disadvantage. This could cause more fighters to be competitively viable. People give League a lot of shit for not having a wide competitive pool when it encompasses about half the champions, according to worlds. Meanwhile, Melee(according to the top 16 of EVO has 11, which is ~ 42% with 6 players playing exclusively Fox. If the same character range were to be brought out in Sm4sh, it would look awful due to a roster of over double the size. The people who complain about the competitive pool in league are idiotic. If you want to be able to change your set to make a matchup more favorable, then learn a secondary. Fill in your weaknesses with already established characters. Or learn to work around your weaknesses. I'm all for custom sets for funsies, but they have no place in a competitive atmosphere. edit - maybe I'm just looking at it from a different perspective. I have absolutely no issues with the size of the competitive pool in melee, especially because in the last 1-2 years the pool has "opened up" a bit with people like Axe and aMSa playing unconventional characters astonishingly well.
It has opened up a little bit, but it's not like they are winning nationals or anything.
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I don't see why you can't prepare for custom movesets the same way you prepare for regular ones.
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On October 10 2014 05:19 Duvon wrote:
Questionable Content is so good.
I KNOW RIGHT
I'm just worried that this new development is going to cause a shitstorm. The subreddit (which I don't visit often, but sort of had to after yesterday) was already having issues with people getting all touchy about it. But I sorta like where it's going. And, of course, the humor is perfect.
Jeph deserves a damn medal.
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On October 10 2014 05:43 Requizen wrote:I KNOW RIGHT I'm just worried that this new development is going to cause a shitstorm. The subreddit (which I don't visit often, but sort of had to after yesterday) was already having issues with people getting all touchy about it. But I sorta like where it's going. And, of course, the humor is perfect. Jeph deserves a damn medal.
I guess this is where I come out of the QC fan closet. I even have a "TEH" shirt.
I like Marten best when he's alone.
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On October 10 2014 05:46 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 05:43 Requizen wrote:On October 10 2014 05:19 Duvon wrote:
Questionable Content is so good.
I KNOW RIGHT I'm just worried that this new development is going to cause a shitstorm. The subreddit (which I don't visit often, but sort of had to after yesterday) was already having issues with people getting all touchy about it. But I sorta like where it's going. And, of course, the humor is perfect. Jeph deserves a damn medal. I guess this is where I come out of the QC fan closet. I even have a "TEH" shirt. I like Marten best when he's alone.
But see! This just sets him up for more suffering when it doesn't work out! Angsty Marten best Marten.
Look we just need more Hanners tho. And not just as Marigold's sidekick, I like her interacting with the main cast.
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EPT
