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On October 10 2014 05:25 jcarlsoniv wrote:
The people who complain about the competitive pool in league are idiotic.
Well the complaining happens because they naturally compare the game to Dota2, which generally sees a much larger variety of picks. I think most rational/non-fanatical people realize this is largely due to the pick/ban phases. Not that I wouldn't like to see less homogenization in League but that's not why less champs are picked(or at least, it's a far lesser reason).
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11589 Posts
As a smash (mainly melee and PM) player who attends local tournaments, I can tell you that people around here have little respect for Sm4sh as a competitively viable game outside of the "mainstream" TO's who are trying to monetize their "organization" (Tourney Locator, a VGBC clone).
No doubt, it will be played at tournaments, and in fact already is on a weekly basis here in DFW. And when it is, they will almost certainly not be using a For Glory style stagelist and ruleset. Custom moves seem fine to me. SF has the super selection, Marvel has assist selection, why are custom moves that different?
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On October 10 2014 05:35 WaveofShadow wrote:
I don't see why you can't prepare for custom movesets the same way you prepare for regular ones.
Ok, well let's consider - Let's take the sm4sh cast (48 characters? 50? idk). If you can customize, you can change any number of your A moves, any number of your B moves, and any number of your stats (attack/defense/speed), and in each of those changes, you have at least 2 options for each one. I could do the math on how many potential combinations that results in, but I'm not going to.
Add onto that the fact that you have no way of knowing what your opponent may or may not have changed for his movesets, so, while you may have a vague idea of what you may be facing, you have no way to be sure until you actually encounter the moves.
It changes things to a strategic "I want to cover my weaknesses by changing this move to this other move" thing instead of an execution "if I grab him at 20%, I can pivot chaingrab him to 50% before I have to nair -> fair -> fair to finish the combo" thing based on exact knowledge that comes from the concreteness of characters.
edit - on a separate note, I absolutely hate the For Glory stage list. Why the hell can't any of my stages have platforms T_T
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United States23745 Posts
On October 10 2014 05:57 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 05:35 WaveofShadow wrote:
I don't see why you can't prepare for custom movesets the same way you prepare for regular ones. Ok, well let's consider - Let's take the sm4sh cast (48 characters? 50? idk). If you can customize, you can change any number of your A moves, any number of your B moves, and any number of your stats (attack/defense/speed), and in each of those changes, you have at least 2 options for each one. I could do the math on how many potential combinations that results in, but I'm not going to. Add onto that the fact that you have no way of knowing what your opponent may or may not have changed for his movesets, so, while you may have a vague idea of what you may be facing, you have no way to be sure until you actually encounter the moves. It changes things to a strategic "I want to cover my weaknesses by changing this move to this other move" thing instead of an execution "if I grab him at 20%, I can pivot chaingrab him to 50% before I have to nair -> fair -> fair to finish the combo" thing based on exact knowledge that comes from the concreteness of characters. edit - on a separate note, I absolutely hate the For Glory stage list. Why the hell can't any of my stages have platforms T_T
If TOs decide to go with custom moves I think they will limit it to B moves, none of the stat changes. That's my guess anyway.
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On October 10 2014 05:57 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 05:35 WaveofShadow wrote:
I don't see why you can't prepare for custom movesets the same way you prepare for regular ones. Ok, well let's consider - Let's take the sm4sh cast (48 characters? 50? idk). If you can customize, you can change any number of your A moves, any number of your B moves, and any number of your stats (attack/defense/speed), and in each of those changes, you have at least 2 options for each one. I could do the math on how many potential combinations that results in, but I'm not going to. Add onto that the fact that you have no way of knowing what your opponent may or may not have changed for his movesets, so, while you may have a vague idea of what you may be facing, you have no way to be sure until you actually encounter the moves. It changes things to a strategic "I want to cover my weaknesses by changing this move to this other move" thing instead of an execution "if I grab him at 20%, I can pivot chaingrab him to 50% before I have to nair -> fair -> fair to finish the combo" thing based on exact knowledge that comes from the concreteness of characters. edit - on a separate note, I absolutely hate the For Glory stage list. Why the hell can't any of my stages have platforms T_T
You can't change A moves in customs. /nitpick
And most of the B moves are similar to the normal moves but with variation. It's not like Mario goes from having a Fireball to Meta Knight's Tornado.
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Oh I didn't know you could change stats.
Yeah I highly doubt that will be allowed.
Movesets seem completely fine to me though.
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On October 10 2014 05:19 Duvon wrote:
Questionable Content is so good.
This is still going on? I haven't read it in a year or two, but wow. I thought the story would have ended by now.
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NB: Everything I've said is with the caveat that I don't actually think that sm4sh could or will be a highly competitive game. I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of it because it allows me to play a bunch of smash from the comfort of my home without having to drive an hour to play with my friends that play Melee/PM.
Can you not change A moves on presets? That's nice. I've only quickly made a Mii fighter and know you have some options there, but I'm not all too interested in making my own character.
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United States23745 Posts
On October 10 2014 06:04 jcarlsoniv wrote:
NB: Everything I've said is with the caveat that I don't actually think that sm4sh could or will be a highly competitive game. I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of it because it allows me to play a bunch of smash from the comfort of my home without having to drive an hour to play with my friends that play Melee/PM.
Can you not change A moves on presets? That's nice. I've only quickly made a Mii fighter and know you have some options there, but I'm not all too interested in making my own character.
I caved and bought it so I hope I at least like it a little!
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11589 Posts
Do any of you guys have Netplay?
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For Melee? I don't. Don't have a USB GC controller atm. I'm sure I'll look into it eventually.
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On October 10 2014 06:04 jcarlsoniv wrote:
NB: Everything I've said is with the caveat that I don't actually think that sm4sh could or will be a highly competitive game. I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of it because it allows me to play a bunch of smash from the comfort of my home without having to drive an hour to play with my friends that play Melee/PM.
Can you not change A moves on presets? That's nice. I've only quickly made a Mii fighter and know you have some options there, but I'm not all too interested in making my own character.
It feels more competitive than Brawl, since they took out some of the worse design options.
You can't change A moves, sorta. The moves are always the same, but you can change your base stats (defense/speed/power) which changes their output.
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On October 10 2014 05:43 Requizen wrote:I KNOW RIGHT I'm just worried that this new development is going to cause a shitstorm. The subreddit (which I don't visit often, but sort of had to after yesterday) was already having issues with people getting all touchy about it. But I sorta like where it's going. And, of course, the humor is perfect. Jeph deserves a damn medal.
I hit the random comic button like 5 times trying to find the jokes before I realized it was like a story about hipsters at a coffee shop or something. 0/10
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On October 10 2014 06:11 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 06:04 jcarlsoniv wrote:
NB: Everything I've said is with the caveat that I don't actually think that sm4sh could or will be a highly competitive game. I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of it because it allows me to play a bunch of smash from the comfort of my home without having to drive an hour to play with my friends that play Melee/PM.
Can you not change A moves on presets? That's nice. I've only quickly made a Mii fighter and know you have some options there, but I'm not all too interested in making my own character. It feels more competitive than Brawl, since they took out some of the worse design options.
My cat is a more competitive thumb wrestler than a rock.
Hyperbolic to the max, obviously. And I do definitely like sm4sh much better than brawl, but that's not necessarily saying all that much.
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On October 10 2014 06:12 Chrispy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 05:43 Requizen wrote:On October 10 2014 05:19 Duvon wrote:
Questionable Content is so good.
I KNOW RIGHT I'm just worried that this new development is going to cause a shitstorm. The subreddit (which I don't visit often, but sort of had to after yesterday) was already having issues with people getting all touchy about it. But I sorta like where it's going. And, of course, the humor is perfect. Jeph deserves a damn medal. I hit the random comic button like 5 times trying to find the jokes before I realized it was like a story about hipsters at a coffee shop or something. 0/10
It's slice of life, it's not like Penny Arcade or XKCD (which I love both, ofc). I ignore most of the music jokes, but the situational comedy is quite good.
On October 10 2014 06:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 06:11 Requizen wrote:On October 10 2014 06:04 jcarlsoniv wrote:
NB: Everything I've said is with the caveat that I don't actually think that sm4sh could or will be a highly competitive game. I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of it because it allows me to play a bunch of smash from the comfort of my home without having to drive an hour to play with my friends that play Melee/PM.
Can you not change A moves on presets? That's nice. I've only quickly made a Mii fighter and know you have some options there, but I'm not all too interested in making my own character. It feels more competitive than Brawl, since they took out some of the worse design options. My cat is a more competitive thumb wrestler than a rock. Hyperbolic to the max, obviously. And I do definitely like sm4sh much better than brawl, but that's not necessarily saying all that much.
The removal of tripping immediately makes it more competitive. And it feels much less floaty. Also, removing gliding was a big deal since it made certain characters' recovery absolutely bonkers.
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SWR/Hisoutensoku, the 2nd Touhou fighters, had "decks". You could change an input's command from a move to a (generally) somewhat similar move by activating a card (you gain cards like you gain meter, up to 5, and you can shift the active one), so aside from a character starting with the same moveset every time, and meta stuff giving a vague idea what the core moves are going to be, you get told when your opponent switches an input's move anyway (the supers are activated cards too, but since each player sees both "hands" and the "draw" is randomised, if your opponent gets a super you'll see it at the same time so you know he's able to do it).
Hopeless Masquerade, the 3rd one, had customisable movesets in a similar vein to Smash, 'cept you have fully customisable sets (2 buttons, 4 directions, so 8 "specials" inputs (no SF-style inputs in that game), but you can associate any number of specials to any number of inputs, you can have 8 different or 8 times the same if you want; some moves behave differently in a specific direction, hence why you way want to "map" it twice, rarely more).
It also had a "religious" system (the game basically parodies election campaigns through a religious "war" of influence in Gensokyo), where each move pushes you toward a certain religion. When one is dominant, it modifies the moves' properties (the game is mostly based on projectiles, for example Taoism increases damage and hitbox but severely reduces range, melee heavy-hitter-like). You can map items too instead of specials to your input "slots", some will passively push you toward a religion, if for example you want to start with Boudhism already instead of starting neutral and having to use a move 2-3 times.
Depending on patches there's still generally a more widely adopted religion for each character, which will shape which specials are going to be used, and the variation they'll use. Since religion is showed in the UI too, unless your opponent starts neutral you'll know his religion and hence his general playstyle. Even if he starts neutral, within a few pokes you'll know.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On October 10 2014 00:29 Numy wrote:
ps: Ragyo Kiryuin theme is so much better than Satsuki
Ping Pong Circulate is also pretty good. Actually you know what the entire soundtrack is good.
On October 10 2014 01:29 wei2coolman wrote:
Discussing vegetarian versions of meat should be a bannable offense.
Even so, there's still some amazing stuff you can do with tofu if you're not trying to make it pretend to be meat.
On October 10 2014 03:48 Gahlo wrote:
Just play Lucina and give 0 fucks about tipping.
You're cool.
On October 10 2014 05:19 Duvon wrote:
Questionable Content is so good.
You get one too!
On October 10 2014 05:43 Requizen wrote:
I KNOW RIGHT
Everyone gets one!
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Uh if you like Ping Pong Circulate you'd probably like SMT3's OST better.
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Ping Pong Circulate is the best song that has ever been made by anyone, shut the fuck up.
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EPT
