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France13018 Posts
On August 18 2024 04:31 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
I like this format way more. Unlike in group stages, every match is meaningful.
Bo3 is kinda dumb though. Lots of good players eliminated in the most volatile 1v1 format (heck even in team league like WTL they have bo2 instead of bo1, despite bo1 being possible in team league), especially considering the prizepool.
Protoss looking strong as expected this tournament, I can see herO win the whole thing
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On August 18 2024 04:31 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
I like this format way more. Unlike in group stages, every match is meaningful.
I love how polarizing this is, some love it and some hate it.
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On August 18 2024 03:59 Balnazza wrote:I think the only time in the history of Esports that a loser interview was memorable was Sjokz' interview with TSM|Dyrus after his last match as a professional player. It was extremly emotional and hard to watch...but it got saved by Sjokz handling it well and the crowd jumping in and supporting him, even though he was on "enemy" territory. Probably the best TSM-Chants in the history of LoL. That being said...I really can't see anything like this working at EWC, so for the love of god, just scrap it for the Ro4...
Oh my god, that was gut-wrenching to watch... Dyrus was such a good sport. It wasn't only a a loss but the end of his career iirc.
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Northern Ireland27351 Posts
On August 18 2024 04:31 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
I like this format way more. Unlike in group stages, every match is meaningful.
But you have an entire stage of the tournament where unless you’re good enough to advance the matches are essentially (albeit not 100%) meaningless.
1 set away from taking out Maru after beating Byun twice and Gumiho? Well hey you’re in the same spot as the guy who went 0-6
They managed to make a whole slew of (admittedly great) matches less meaningful than a round robin match
I see no advantages at all with this format versus an upper bracket slog, single elimination for a Ro4 spot, further you get the higher you enter a lower bracket slugfest, which could be double elimination. Or a round robin that seeds a knockout bracket
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On August 18 2024 04:57 PremoBeats wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 03:59 Balnazza wrote:I think the only time in the history of Esports that a loser interview was memorable was Sjokz' interview with TSM|Dyrus after his last match as a professional player. It was extremly emotional and hard to watch...but it got saved by Sjokz handling it well and the crowd jumping in and supporting him, even though he was on "enemy" territory. Probably the best TSM-Chants in the history of LoL. That being said...I really can't see anything like this working at EWC, so for the love of god, just scrap it for the Ro4... Oh my god, that was gut-wrenching to watch... Dyrus was such a good sport. It wasn't only a a loss but the end of his career iirc.
Yeah, he announced his retirement in that interview, but also was super-heartbroken because he thought he led his team and fans down in his last match. Brutal, just brutal
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I hope Showtime vs Gumiho gets the best game award of the tournament, those games are soo special
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nobody cares about the format everyone is just saying BO3 this far into the tourney is fucking stupid
No person in their right mind thinks Cure is better than Maru
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On August 18 2024 05:34 ShowTheLights wrote:
nobody cares about the format everyone is just saying BO3 this far into the tourney is fucking stupid
No person in their right mind thinks Cure is better than Maru
Why are we acting like upsets are a bad thing now? In a basic sense sure, I can understand that, being the biggest event of the year you want the best performances, and part of that entails ensuring the on paper best players get further into the tournament...but to push it beyond that starts to get into weird entitlement vibes...
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On August 18 2024 05:34 ShowTheLights wrote:
nobody cares about the format everyone is just saying BO3 this far into the tourney is fucking stupid
No person in their right mind thinks Cure is better than Maru
Maybe we should cancel the whole tournament and just give award based on EPT point. How dare Cure beat someone that's better than him?!
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On August 18 2024 05:49 Nasigil1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 05:34 ShowTheLights wrote:
nobody cares about the format everyone is just saying BO3 this far into the tourney is fucking stupid
No person in their right mind thinks Cure is better than Maru Maybe we should cancel the whole tournament and just give award based on EPT point. How dare Cure beat someone that's better than him?!
Upset in this Situation in a bo3 Just feels dumb, in a bo5 i think it would have been less of an issue/No issue (except how seeding into the Knockout bracket worked.
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On August 18 2024 05:53 darklycid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 05:49 Nasigil1 wrote:On August 18 2024 05:34 ShowTheLights wrote:
nobody cares about the format everyone is just saying BO3 this far into the tourney is fucking stupid
No person in their right mind thinks Cure is better than Maru Maybe we should cancel the whole tournament and just give award based on EPT point. How dare Cure beat someone that's better than him?! Upset in this Situation in a bo3 Just feels dumb, in a bo5 i think it would have been less of an issue/No issue (except how seeding into the Knockout bracket worked.
Don't get me wrong: The Knockout Bracket had no business being Bo3. But if we know pretend that Bo3s are "whacky", we get dangerously close to "SC2 in itself is whacky". In such a high-stake tournament the excuse "well it was just Bo3" should not be a thing.
Upsets can be a sign of very high quality. If Serral and Maru just breeze through everything to the finals, the tournament becomes redundant. Just invite them and let them play a Bo27 instead...
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On August 18 2024 06:01 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 05:53 darklycid wrote:On August 18 2024 05:49 Nasigil1 wrote:On August 18 2024 05:34 ShowTheLights wrote:
nobody cares about the format everyone is just saying BO3 this far into the tourney is fucking stupid
No person in their right mind thinks Cure is better than Maru Maybe we should cancel the whole tournament and just give award based on EPT point. How dare Cure beat someone that's better than him?! Upset in this Situation in a bo3 Just feels dumb, in a bo5 i think it would have been less of an issue/No issue (except how seeding into the Knockout bracket worked. Don't get me wrong: The Knockout Bracket had no business being Bo3. But if we know pretend that Bo3s are "whacky", we get dangerously close to "SC2 in itself is whacky". In such a high-stake tournament the excuse "well it was just Bo3" should not be a thing. Upsets can be a sign of very high quality. If Serral and Maru just breeze through everything to the finals, the tournament becomes redundant. Just invite them and let them play a Bo27 instead...
I get the Point but i think ppl are mostly upset bout the bo3 Thing.
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Northern Ireland27351 Posts
On August 18 2024 05:34 ShowTheLights wrote:
nobody cares about the format everyone is just saying BO3 this far into the tourney is fucking stupid
No person in their right mind thinks Cure is better than Maru
At least within the confines of this LR, perhaps not representative but a good chunk of active posters think the format sucks and have been saying so for some time.
Cure isn’t better than Maru, but he’s been the second or third best Terran for years now, basically since TY retired. Good enough to beat him if he brings it in a series.
Bo3 absolutely does suck for a knockout for a tournament of this prestige and prize pool.
I don’t think it’s coincidental that the first few days, with both Bo5 + players not being outright eliminated we saw a ton of really good series, where today you saw a bunch of mediocre ones. Some great games, but series not so much.
It’s just hard to play your best stuff when you’re on match point after losing a game. Some can do it of course!
Also you may also see more of the worse balanced maps, and their importance is amplified by the short series.
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On August 18 2024 08:01 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 05:34 ShowTheLights wrote:
nobody cares about the format everyone is just saying BO3 this far into the tourney is fucking stupid
No person in their right mind thinks Cure is better than Maru At least within the confines of this LR, perhaps not representative but a good chunk of active posters think the format sucks and have been saying so for some time. Cure isn’t better than Maru, but he’s been the second or third best Terran for years now, basically since TY retired. Good enough to beat him if he brings it in a series. Bo3 absolutely does suck for a knockout for a tournament of this prestige and prize pool. I don’t think it’s coincidental that the first few days, with both Bo5 + players not being outright eliminated we saw a ton of really good series, where today you saw a bunch of mediocre ones. Some great games, but series not so much. It’s just hard to play your best stuff when you’re on match point after losing a game. Some can do it of course! Also you may also see more of the worse balanced maps, and their importance is amplified by the short series.
In fairness, you really shouldn't see any worse balanced maps in a Bo3 unless the player who deliberately avoided banning it had a plan for it. What you should've seen was a lot of Site Delta, Oceanborn, Amphion and Goldenaura. The fact that we saw any of the other maps at all is a testament to players having plans (whether they worked or not is a different story). The Bo7s and Bo9 tomorrow is when the weirder maps are guaranteed to be played.
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Northern Ireland27351 Posts
On August 18 2024 08:49 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 08:01 WombaT wrote:On August 18 2024 05:34 ShowTheLights wrote:
nobody cares about the format everyone is just saying BO3 this far into the tourney is fucking stupid
No person in their right mind thinks Cure is better than Maru At least within the confines of this LR, perhaps not representative but a good chunk of active posters think the format sucks and have been saying so for some time. Cure isn’t better than Maru, but he’s been the second or third best Terran for years now, basically since TY retired. Good enough to beat him if he brings it in a series. Bo3 absolutely does suck for a knockout for a tournament of this prestige and prize pool. I don’t think it’s coincidental that the first few days, with both Bo5 + players not being outright eliminated we saw a ton of really good series, where today you saw a bunch of mediocre ones. Some great games, but series not so much. It’s just hard to play your best stuff when you’re on match point after losing a game. Some can do it of course! Also you may also see more of the worse balanced maps, and their importance is amplified by the short series. In fairness, you really shouldn't see any worse balanced maps in a Bo3 unless the player who deliberately avoided banning it had a plan for it. What you should've seen was a lot of Site Delta, Oceanborn, Amphion and Goldenaura. The fact that we saw any of the other maps at all is a testament to players having plans (whether they worked or not is a different story). The Bo7s and Bo9 tomorrow is when the weirder maps are guaranteed to be played.
Yeah fair points, I retract my previous statement haha
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is there going to be a pre-show for the finals or should i wake up early to watch all the matches?
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On August 18 2024 05:34 ShowTheLights wrote:
nobody cares about the format everyone is just saying BO3 this far into the tourney is fucking stupid
No person in their right mind thinks Cure is better than Maru
lol no one expect Maru to perform outside of Korea
Maru has the easiest path to the final 4 and he still manage to get eliminated by losing 3 series. He was simply not good enough to get in pure and simple
Knockout bracket was simply giving all the losers (who already lost 2 series) another chance to make it to the top 4. If there was no knockout bracket. Your boy Maru was already eliminated by Serral. Just be glad you kids got to see 2 more series from Maru after that
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On August 18 2024 05:00 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 04:31 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
I like this format way more. Unlike in group stages, every match is meaningful. But you have an entire stage of the tournament where unless you’re good enough to advance the matches are essentially (albeit not 100%) meaningless. 1 set away from taking out Maru after beating Byun twice and Gumiho? Well hey you’re in the same spot as the guy who went 0-6 They managed to make a whole slew of (admittedly great) matches less meaningful than a round robin match I see no advantages at all with this format versus an upper bracket slog, single elimination for a Ro4 spot, further you get the higher you enter a lower bracket slugfest, which could be double elimination. Or a round robin that seeds a knockout bracket
To make the counter argument, coffee faced harder opponents than Oliveria compare to gumiho and Byun. Oliveria was eliminated by Classic, who I can argue also had harder opponents as well (Clem and cure).
Based purely on skill level on this tournament, Oliveria placed exactly where he should have been 12-16th. All we saw was his tvt, once he played tvp against classic we all saw how god awful that was
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On August 18 2024 11:01 Blitzball04 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 05:00 WombaT wrote:On August 18 2024 04:31 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
I like this format way more. Unlike in group stages, every match is meaningful. But you have an entire stage of the tournament where unless you’re good enough to advance the matches are essentially (albeit not 100%) meaningless. 1 set away from taking out Maru after beating Byun twice and Gumiho? Well hey you’re in the same spot as the guy who went 0-6 They managed to make a whole slew of (admittedly great) matches less meaningful than a round robin match I see no advantages at all with this format versus an upper bracket slog, single elimination for a Ro4 spot, further you get the higher you enter a lower bracket slugfest, which could be double elimination. Or a round robin that seeds a knockout bracket Based purely on skill level on this tournament, Oliveria placed exactly where he should have been 12-16th. All we saw was his tvt, once he played tvp against classic we all saw how god awful that was
Where do you get the idea that "12-16th" is the exact correct range for Oliveira? His EPT Ranking would indicate Top 10, his performance in the First Round would suggest Top 6. Which is even weirder when you compare it to Classic, who placed last in the First Group Stage, is only 14th in EPT Ranking and also had no noteworthy result the entire year, including not qualifying for Katowice and the last GSL.
Not to mention that Oliveira prepping mostly TvT and probably TvZ, while Classic most likely only prepped PvT also makes a lot of sense if you look into the First Group Stage.
If this was just simple Single-Elim, I wouldn't complain at all that Classic has won, that's the kind of upset you kind of want in a World Championship. But based on the entire tournament, Classic really has no business getting 5K more than Oli. And there isn't a single logical argument against that fact tbh...
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EPT
