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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51450 Posts
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Map Pool Group D![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1099.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/663.jpg)  Rogue vs  INnoVation![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4729.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/618.jpg) Dark vs  TrapResults+ Show Spoiler [Match List] + CSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: GSL | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51450 Posts
Poll: Who Advances? Dark & INnoVation (11) INnoVation & Rogue (7) Rogue & Trap (6) Trap & INnoVation (5) Rogue & Dark (5) Trap & Dark (2) 36 total votes Your vote: Who Advances? (Vote): Rogue & Trap | ||
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Fuell
Netherlands3111 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13962 Posts
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Slydie
1907 Posts
It will depend a lot on nailing your preparation and having a good day. | ||
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JJH777
United States4376 Posts
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QOGQOG
819 Posts
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Poopi
France12760 Posts
On October 10 2020 05:48 JJH777 wrote: Rogue and Dark. SC2 fans have such a weird view of time. To me Super Tournament feels like it just happened and Blizzcon last year wasn't that long ago. Dark has been vastly underrated this year. He basically lost to Rogue, TY, and Inno and suddenly he's considered to not be a contender. Barring a non Zerg victor which is unrealistic I'm rooting for Dark this season. Depends on his wrist issues to be honest. Look at what happened to ByuN. Group stages GSL can be long and taxing so form of the day really matters. It’s too bad us foreigners viewers don’t have much insight about Koreans « rumors » and stuff. We could know Serral was a beast before he showed it in tournament, you could see on HeroMarine stream way back that he was really scared of him already and praising him for example. | ||
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Sif_
Brazil3106 Posts
Dark > Trap Inno > Dark Rogue > Trap Rogue > Dark Feels weird predicting Trap to be the first eliminated, what a tough group | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
Rogue advancing first would fit the tradition of Ro8 Jin Air team kill but so would a Trap first place. I'm hoping Dark is on form tonight, he's looked shaky since his wrist injury. The hype for this group is top level especially since the other groups were so good. Let's hope it lives up to it. | ||
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RKC
2847 Posts
Inno always get shafted by such timing conflicts (e.g. TSL). Then again, maybe machines don't sleep... EDIT: Inno should be weakest against Trap. Since he'll be practising mainly vZ and vT for both tourneys. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
On October 10 2020 10:31 RKC wrote: Inno's KOB QF match v Maru is G4? So he'll be playing past midnight? Such a big time gap - better to have an earlier KOB match like Rogue. Inno always get shafted by such timing conflicts (e.g. TSL). Then again, maybe machines don't sleep... EDIT: Inno should be weakest against Trap. Since he'll be practising mainly vZ and vT for both tourneys. It sucks but if anyone can handle it it's Innovation. All "he's a machine" memes aside, the dude is an absolute stud with how often he plays in online cups at all hours. This is something he's used to. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 10:44 Vindicare605 wrote: It sucks but if anyone can handle it it's Innovation. All "he's a machine" memes aside, the dude is an absolute stud with how often he plays in online cups at all hours. This is something he's used to. Last season he had basically the same schedule but worse due to having to play in Dreamhack Summer, then his GSL group, followed by Dreamhack Summer again, followed by the Alpha X 500dj Esports Cup essentially back to back to back. No idea how he manages his sleep schedule with stuff like this. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8220 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13962 Posts
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Wintex
Norway16835 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
Innovation: The Dictator Dark: Heart of the Swarm Trap: The Trap Card Nicknames from this group. Not as good as last group IMO although I'm totally good with Innovation being the Dictator. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1669 Posts
Anyone agree? | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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Wintex
Norway16835 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
Just can't use that opener vs him. He always goes fast Ovie speed so you'll never catch him off guard with it. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8220 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8220 Posts
On October 10 2020 13:18 blooblooblahblah wrote: I guess that's why you don't go multiple BCs + yamato into bio? Honestly haven't seen that since like early 2019 lol I think losing those Hellions were a bigger issue. | ||
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Monochromatic
United States991 Posts
On October 10 2020 13:19 BerserkSword wrote: Innovation got fast yamato but barely used it for some reason. I think he only got 3 yamato's off entire game I mean what was there to target? A roach? He didn't even see a queen. | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
Normally they get to 3 rax first then do a 2 medivac push with the first 2 medivacs (even with the BC opener). Rouge had forever do get the map. Doesn't matter if your hellions get 10 workers if you then give zerg the map for ages after. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On October 10 2020 13:20 Monochromatic wrote: I mean what was there to target? A roach? He didn't even see a queen. he shouldve used them on mutas the moment they showed up. Not sure it wouldve made a difference in the end result but he seemed to be saving them for something | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Wintex
Norway16835 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8220 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
Both players had a game like that in this series. Game 1 was Inno and Game 2 was Rogue. Just left me scratching my head after either game. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8220 Posts
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On October 10 2020 13:45 Rubicant1 wrote: That series was like a microcosm of Rogue's career: hyper-dominant one moment and then oddly mortal the next. Sounds like a patchzerg to me  | ||
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RKC
2847 Posts
Every zerg is a patchzerg. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8220 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13962 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8220 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Edit: Trap | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:16 [Phantom] wrote: Dark is dead. He doesnt have enough air units. Ground units are usless vs lurkers. those immortals are dead weight. ? You mean Trap is dead? | ||
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
no, Dark is dead, he's being too passive | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
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JJH777
United States4376 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Yeah sorry meant trap. Though there might still be a chance. Since Dark has so few minerals...but now Trap has no gas. This game is madness. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
PvZ is such a beautiful matchup! | ||
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Wintex
Norway16835 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:25 Wintex wrote: Shades of broodlord infestor honestly Every non terran matchup is shit. Change my mind. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
trap is a god | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
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Wintex
Norway16835 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8220 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
never doubted Trap | ||
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HeroSandro
521 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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RKC
2847 Posts
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Wintex
Norway16835 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
 Honestly I felt Dark should have beaten trap waaay before it came to that. He kinda threw a little. Props to Trap, he was smarter. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8220 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:27 PresenceSc2 wrote: Every non terran matchup is shit. Change my mind. You can't, cus it's true. ZvP is honestly the most disgusting matchup to watch after PvP. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Lothcomic
21 Posts
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Monochromatic
United States991 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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RKC
2847 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8220 Posts
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Wintex
Norway16835 Posts
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Monochromatic
United States991 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:35 geokilla wrote: Omg I never noticed there were no Broodlords. If Dark made that, he could have won. I'm actually not sure about that. To me it felt like the lack of broods helped Dark by letting his corrupter count kill the voids. I think he just had to take out the mining base and keep his corruptors/lurkers while doing so. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:35 geokilla wrote: Omg I never noticed there were no Broodlords. If Dark made that, he could have won. he didn't have enough resources cuz there was a ground army he also had to deal with | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:41 BerserkSword wrote: as a terran player - are charge all ins in pvz anything but garbage? Charge is literally amove, so of course it's garbage. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:41 BerserkSword wrote: as a terran player - are charge all ins in pvz anything but garbage? He did the allin charge build then didn't even attack with it. Was weird. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:41 BerserkSword wrote: as a terran player - are charge all ins in pvz anything but garbage? They stopped being good roughly 6 months before Blizz nerfed them by removing the charge impact damage. On October 10 2020 14:43 PresenceSc2 wrote: He did the allin charge build then didn't even attack with it. Was weird. Dark had the units so the attack wouldn't have worked. Trying to transition was the best Trap could make of it. | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:41 BerserkSword wrote: as a terran player - are charge all ins in pvz anything but garbage? They aren't common but when they work, they look brilliant and when they fail, they look abysmal. | ||
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Monochromatic
United States991 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:43 PresenceSc2 wrote: He did the allin charge build then didn't even attack with it. Was weird. Dark had tons of lings and 5 spines. He couldn't touch him and correctly pulled back. | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:46 Monochromatic wrote: Dark had tons of lings and 5 spines. He couldn't touch him and correctly pulled back. Maybe doing another warp in and going was the move. Pulling back and going for a longer game didn't work. | ||
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:49 PresenceSc2 wrote: Maybe doing another warp in and going was the move. Pulling back and going for a longer game didn't work. Just because it didn't work doesn't mean it was the wrong call. A 15% chance that Dark messes up the longer game is much better than the sub 5% chance the push works. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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RKC
2847 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:49 [Phantom] wrote: Is it just me or is Artosis talking kinda...calmy? He sounds different from other days. Not complaining just an observation. This is good Artosis. Bad is when he laughs uncontrollably for 4-5 minutes on some unfunny joke to extent of being super annoying to listen to (e.g. last ASL Group B which was super intense and epic). | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:51 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Just because it didn't work doesn't mean it was the wrong call. A 15% chance that Dark messes up the longer game is much better than the sub 5% chance the push works. Resume from replay gogo | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8220 Posts
Anyone think Trap can beat Innovation? | ||
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
So the correct strat is making an adept all-in into an immortal all-in. Protoss is also disgusting. Nice. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
A minute later Dark has 10 more drones than Trap...This is why I don't like normal adepts all-ins. But this was a great series. WP to both players. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 14:56 [Phantom] wrote: So it truns out the problem with adepts all in was Protoss tried to transition to a third, and that left them withouth army. So it turns the correct strat is making an adept all-in into an immortal all-in. Protoss is also disgusting. Nice. I mean that's what people did a lot earlier where the meta was some really all-in 4 and 6 gate adept variations. Now that the meta has turned more towards not committing too hard with the adepts to have an easy transition into a third , speed prism disruptor harass, and colossi, it's made the really all-in stuff that Trap went for all the more deadly. | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
At least we get to see Inno's TvP now. | ||
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Wintex
Norway16835 Posts
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dysenterymd
1173 Posts
Perfect time for Rogue to get out of the group and ruin everything. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:01 dysenterymd wrote: Armani and DRG could be the only zerg in the RO8. If that happens we could have a protoss champion... Perfect time for Rogue to get out of the group and ruin everything. It's been 3 and a half years since we've had a Protoss champion. So... hell it's about time? | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
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pumpmepleasure
17 Posts
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Supah
708 Posts
I know that looked like it was all Trap, but that was pretty knife edge. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:15 Supah wrote: It's a little bit insane how hard Trap had to work to get that done, have an insane worker lead, lose the worker lead, and need a miracle Disruptor hit to flip the game again. I know that looked like it was all Trap, but that was pretty knife edge. Sure he was ahead in workers, but he had no tech--that's the price you pay for a build like that. | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:19 AzAlexZ wrote: That adept harass was so satisfying to watch. Terrans that run hellions into P mineral lines and kill probes getting a taste of their own medicine I wish i could warp in 6 hellions outside your base and keep sending them in | ||
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pumpmepleasure
17 Posts
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Supah
708 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:21 PresenceSc2 wrote: I wish i could warp in 6 hellions outside your base and keep sending them in Yes, that's exactly what happened. | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:21 PresenceSc2 wrote: I wish i could warp in 6 hellions outside your base and keep sending them in I wish I can drop 4 warp prisms worth of chargelots and kill your base 2 can play this game | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:25 AzAlexZ wrote: I wish I can drop 4 warp prisms worth of chargelots and kill your base Just warp in off of 8 gates | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:21 PresenceSc2 wrote: I wish i could warp in 6 hellions outside your base and keep sending them in Those 3 Adepts walked across the map and weren't reinforced though? | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:25 AzAlexZ wrote: I wish I can drop 4 warp prisms worth of chargelots and kill your base It happens. As seen in Stats's games against ByuN. | ||
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:27 AzAlexZ wrote: We had the Nestea Award, and the PartinG award, now we need the Trap reward. Trap would need to make a few more Ro8s even after this one. | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:28 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Trap would need to make a few more Ro8s even after this one. no he doesn't he already set the record | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
Sure he sets the record, but the Nestea and PartinG awards are for 10 consecutive Ro32/Ro16. So Trap would need four more after this. | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Sure he sets the record, but the Nestea and PartinG awards are for 10 consecutive Ro32/Ro16. So Trap would need four more after this. oh right | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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Malinor
Germany4719 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13962 Posts
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dysenterymd
1173 Posts
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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RKC
2847 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:37 Argonauta wrote: ofc the classical jin air team kill match in Ro8 freecs and jinair has been dominating GSL for quite a bit.. I think other teams needs to step up their game... | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13962 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:38 SamirDuran wrote: freecs and jinair has been dominating GSL for quite a bit.. I think other teams needs to step up their game... just realized every Freec is in ro8, Zest could be the only non FreecAir player in ro8 | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13962 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:41 Cricketer12 wrote: just realized every Freec is in ro8, Zest could be the only non FreecAir player in ro8 Well apart from soO. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:45 Cricketer12 wrote: Alright here's the hot take. If Inno advances, TY > Maru finals Nah bruh Trap will win it all | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:13 Swisslink wrote: Does Dark usually not go for such a Viper heavy set-up? I don‘t reall recall that many of his lategame ZvZ‘s and to me this looked like a really prepared thing for what Rogue expected Dark to do even if it failed miserably. Dark isn't known for his late game spell caster control in ZvZ but it's not like he skimps in vipers when it gets there. Honestly, this broodlord switch is just a weird korean thing that they sometimes do in ZvZ, it almost never works but they still keep pulling it out. (Famously soO vs Solar did it vs Serral earlier in the year and it was NSFW) | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:15 blooblooblahblah wrote: Dark isn't known for his late game spell caster control in ZvZ but it's not like he skimps in vipers when it gets there. Honestly, this broodlord switch is just a weird korean thing that they sometimes do in ZvZ, it almost never works but they still keep pulling it out. You have to be so incredibly far ahead for the broodlord transition to work. Strangely enough the last time I saw broodlords win a ZvZ it was between two EU players. | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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Luolis
Finland7094 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:18 blooblooblahblah wrote: I didn't see the start of this game, did Dark scout this in time to do the foreigner full wall defence? He scouted it in time, but he just microed it out. | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:18 blooblooblahblah wrote: I didn't see the start of this game, did Dark scout this in time to do the foreigner full wall defence? Yes he did. He sent his 2nd overlord over the path Rogue sent his units on and saw it way in advance. | ||
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WTCO
United States646 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
I feel so sad... rogue being eliminated probably means Stats is going to win the GSL, which means no protoss buffs and we could use more  But oh well. At least we'll finally have a protoss champion since forever. | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:20 StasisField wrote: Yes he did. He sent his 2nd overlord over the path Rogue sent his units on and saw it way in advance. Thanks. I'm glad he won anyway but it's weird that you wouldn't pick a "foolproof" way to get the win against this build (obviously not completely foolproof because we've seen everyone screw up the wall in tournament games) | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:22 blooblooblahblah wrote: Thanks. I'm glad he won anyway but it's weird that you wouldn't pick a "foolproof" way to get the win against this build (obviously not completely foolproof because we've seen everyone screw up the wall in tournament games) Maybe he didn't practice the hatch cancel evo positioning recently, and wasn't confident he'd get it right. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36939 Posts
The only exception was INno vs Trap. That was just absolutely pathetic... | ||
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
I think Dark advancing would be good here, simply because I don‘t think the other two Zerg are up to the task to compete with the absolute best out there. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2427 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:26 swarminfestor wrote: Rogue was kind of player who loved to gamble even though he had advantages over his opponent. Nothing new when he lost the Ro.32/Ro.16 after winning the championship. I think he might lose Ro.32 if the new GSL system did not allow the top seeded players to not playing in Ro.32 before deciding the group nominations. meh, this kind of speech is easy to say once tge results are set. The truth is that it is a stacked group with INo Dark and Trap battling at bo3 | ||
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Wintex
Norway16835 Posts
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:26 swarminfestor wrote: Rogue was kind of player who loved to gamble even though he had advantages over his opponent. Nothing new when he lost the Ro.32/Ro.16 after winning the championship. I think he might lose Ro.32 if the new GSL system did not allow the top players to not playing in Ro.32 before deciding the group nominations. I don’t think we can make that argument based on today’s results. We had 4 potential GSL Winners in one group. All 4 of them would have been among the favourites to make it out in any other group. It’s not that the other groups were not good, but this one was just stupidly strong. So no matter how the group turned out, 2 of them would have dropped out earlier than expected, imo. And now it was Rogue. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:32 Wintex wrote: as expected the semis will probably be DRG stats armani trap xd Armani beating Zest in Bo5 would be a very big upset, y'know. Irrelevant of balance, Zest just beats him every time they meet. | ||
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Wintex
Norway16835 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:33 lolfail9001 wrote: Armani beating Zest in Bo5 would be a very big upset, y'know. Irrelevant of balance, Zest just beats him every time they meet. I'm just hoping for it because people in the discord I'm in keep shit talking Armani saying he's a Ro24 player at best :p | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:35 Wintex wrote: I'm just hoping for it because people in the discord I'm in keep shit talking Armani saying he's a Ro24 player at best :p I'd root for armani just because he hasnt had his day yet every dog has his day ....r-right | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:35 Wintex wrote: I'm just hoping for it because people in the discord I'm in keep shit talking Armani saying he's a Ro24 player at best :p Protosses that have beaten Armani recently include Patience, PtitDrogo, Nice, Creator, Firefly, Prince. I'm not feeling so good about his chances again Zest. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
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Wintex
Norway16835 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2427 Posts
edit: Forget that Armani advanced | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:42 swarminfestor wrote: This will mark the first time no Zerg in Ro.8, right? DRG and Armani are both in the ro8 | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:42 swarminfestor wrote: This will mark the first time no Zerg in Ro.8, right? what? no Armani and DRG are already in the Ro. 8 | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:42 swarminfestor wrote: This will mark the first time no Zerg in Ro.8, right? We already have 2 Zergs there and it would not be the first time either (even if last time that happened was right before Queen patch iirc). That said, it definitely would be a first season in a while without either Rogue or Dark in Ro8. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2427 Posts
I forgot both of them survive before. DRG could take to the final if Dark did not survive tonight. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:44 swarminfestor wrote: I forgot both of them survive before. DRG could take to the final if Dark did not survive tonight. I think DRG can beat TY but I think he gets stopped in the ro4 no matter who he ends up facing | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:46 StasisField wrote: I think DRG can beat TY but I think he gets stopped in the ro4 no matter who he ends up facing Well Inno is still an option there and he's been basically a free win for DRG recently. That said he's gonna struggle well enough getting past TY. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:50 Elentos wrote: Well Inno is still an option there and he's been basically a free win for DRG recently. That said he's gonna struggle well enough getting past TY. it still feels so strange seeing DRG as a top tier player again | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:51 starkiller123 wrote: it still feels so strange seeing DRG as a top tier player again He's a top tier ZvT player--his other match-ups are much more iffy. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:54 ZigguratOfUr wrote: He's a top tier ZvT player--his other match-ups are much more iffy. true, its still feels weird lol | ||
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:54 ZigguratOfUr wrote: He's a top tier ZvT player--his other match-ups are much more iffy. This. INnoVation advancing here would be the best thing possible for DRG. I could definitely see DRG beat TY and INnoVation, I definitely don‘t see him winning a ZvZ. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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Tsubbi
Germany7967 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On October 10 2020 16:57 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Innovation's macro is pretty good. I wonder how many marines INno has built in his career lol | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:00 Vindicare605 wrote: RESEARCH ADRENAL GLANDS DARK FOR PETE'S SAKE! Nah, let's throw everything at planetary and die. | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7967 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:01 ZigguratOfUr wrote: That pf's a real magnet. must have insulted Dark's mom or something, fun game even with some questionable decision making lol | ||
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:02 Rubicant1 wrote: How did Dark go from the best ZvT in the world to this. I know he's had wrist problems and I wouldn't be surprised if he is less motivated after winning Blizzcon last year | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:05 Argonauta wrote: Rogue died for this You say that as if he'd have done way better | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:05 Argonauta wrote: Rogue died for this Good | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:04 starkiller123 wrote: I know he's had wrist problems and I wouldn't be surprised if he is less motivated after winning Blizzcon last year He definitely doesn't have the same enthusiasm he did last year. Last year Dark looked like he was on a mission and he wasn't going to be stopped until he won everything. This year he just doesn't look the same. | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2427 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:06 Vindicare605 wrote: He definitely doesn't have the same enthusiasm he did last year. Last year Dark looked like he was on a mission and he wasn't going to be stopped until he won everything. This year he just doesn't look the same. Yeah he seems a lot less hungry, its understandable | ||
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Kaiser_Reinhardo
3 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:06 starkiller123 wrote: feels good to watch zerg lose ngl lol lol same | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:05 Elentos wrote: You say that as if he'd have done way better He woudl at least give us a nice zerg victory in game 1 | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:07 deacon.frost wrote: So it appears GSL saving us from the zerg champ once again. Watch how DRG gets full ZvT road to championship anyhow. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:08 lolfail9001 wrote: Watch how DRG gets full ZvT road to championship anyhow. I would be down for that lol, DRG Maru finals? Still a fun day of games despite the Trap INno series lol, this season has had some great games and really fun ro16 overall | ||
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Baffels
United States1486 Posts
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Russano
United States425 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3090 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:11 Russano wrote: Inno winning is great news for Stats. He should be much more comfortable smashing tank pushes over and over rather then having to play PvZs. I hope one of Trap Stats or Maru (lol) wins this GSL | ||
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Rubicant1
115 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:13 lolfail9001 wrote: On the surface it should go down like: DRG>TY, Stats>Inno, Zest> Armani, Maru flipcoin Trap into Stats>DRG, Zest<whoeverwon. Then either Stats vs Trap with Stats winning or Stats vs Maru with... flipcoin. How has TY looked in tvz lately? I feel like I've been missing all his games | ||
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sudete
Singapore3053 Posts
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Neptuneajax
Australia206 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:15 starkiller123 wrote: How has TY looked in tvz lately? I feel like I've been missing all his games He's looked pretty decent. But TY in the Ro8 of GSL with a lot of time to prepare is a different caliber of player compared to TY playing online tournaments anyway. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:08 lolfail9001 wrote: Watch how DRG gets full ZvT road to championship anyhow. Doubt that. Like seriously, DRG isn't that bad, but beating Inno/MAru/TY? C'mon | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:15 starkiller123 wrote: How has TY looked in tvz lately? I feel like I've been missing all his games Decent enough. Lots of tricky builds and timings (particularly with hellbats or hellions). | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:15 sudete wrote: Armani will be the furthest advancing zerg this season You have inspired me to look up the head to head records for the Ro8 pairings. TY-DRG only have 1 match, from last season of GSL. Stats-Inno is overall 20-22 in series score, but 5-1 for Stats in 2020. Maru-Trap is 7-8 in series (2-2 in 2020). Zest-Armani is at 22-3 in series (11-2 in 2020). | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:02 Tsubbi wrote: korean zerg level is so disappointing compared to europe atm SHHHHHHH. These people aren't supposed to know that zerg isn't actually op, and that it's just the top two players skewing the statistics with their superior consistency. Please be respectful as to not dispel their delusion prematurely. Let it melt slowly and painfully before their myopic eyes. | ||
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:08 lolfail9001 wrote: Watch how DRG gets full ZvT road to championship anyhow. I could actually see that happening. The PvT matchup’s don’t seem impossible for the Terrans to win and DRG‘s ZvT looked - at least mostly - absolutely fantastic. And I don‘t think anyone would be sad if DRG won this. At least I hope no one would. That‘d be an incredible feat to come back and end up winning a GSL. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:30 tigon_ridge wrote: SHHHHHHH. These people aren't supposed to know that zerg isn't actually op, and that it's just the top two players skewing the statistics with their superior consistency. Please be respectful as to not dispel their delusion prematurely. Let it melt slowly and painfully before their myopic eyes. Wrong, wrong, wrong! I cannot tell you how much wrong are you, check the results and for example who won the WC titles. Also you realize Rogue won more than Serral this year? so who are the 2 people? | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:35 deacon.frost wrote: Wrong, wrong, wrong! I cannot tell you how much wrong are you, check the results and for example who won the WC titles. Also you realize Rogue won more than Serral this year? so who are the 2 people? Dont break their "WCS regional tournaments wins are like code S titles" bobble, they may get hurt | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:42 Argonauta wrote: Dont break their "WCS regional tournaments wins are like code S titles" bobble, they may get hurt Even if they are it's not two foreigners, Reynor won 5, Roghue won 2 premiere tournaments IIRC. The 2 most winning zergs. | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:35 deacon.frost wrote: Wrong, wrong, wrong! I cannot tell you how much wrong are you, check the results and for example who won the WC titles. Also you realize Rogue won more than Serral this year? so who are the 2 people? The fact that you're still using the number of tourn wins as a measure of skill or race strength says everything about your capacity to think logically. But I repeat myself. Btw, you didn't repeat "wrong!" enough. A couple times were would've made your "argument" x2 more convincing. Fact. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:42 Argonauta wrote: Dont break their "WCS regional tournaments wins are like code S titles" bobble, they may get hurt I how long do you think it will be until you know who pops into this thread talking about Serral? | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:46 tigon_ridge wrote: The fact that you're still using the number of tourn wins as a measure of skill or race strength says everything about your capacity to think logically. But I repeat myself. Btw, you didn't repeat "wrong!" enough. A couple times were would've made your "argument" x2 more convincing. Fact. Tell me the names and their titles then. Go on. | ||
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Poopi
France12760 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:30 tigon_ridge wrote: SHHHHHHH. These people aren't supposed to know that zerg isn't actually op, and that it's just the top two players skewing the statistics with their superior consistency. Please be respectful as to not dispel their delusion prematurely. Let it melt slowly and painfully before their myopic eyes. Or... it's the GSL skewing the statistics | ||
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:35 deacon.frost wrote: Wrong, wrong, wrong! I cannot tell you how much wrong are you, check the results and for example who won the WC titles. Also you realize Rogue won more than Serral this year? so who are the 2 people? The fact that few players win most of the tournaments just means that the game is at a very stable spot with random bullshittery no longer determining the outcome of the tournaments, imo. Whether that‘s a good thing from a viewer perspective is an entirely different conversation. Weird games have alsways been awesome to watch. But having players that are able to consistently perform really well and having them rarely fall to underdogs who just throw some weird builds they could not have possibly seen coming (and that was one major issue in early days StarCraft II, imo) at them is - at least from a competitive standpoint - a good thing. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:52 Swisslink wrote: The fact that few players win most of the tournaments just means that the game is at a very stable spot with random bullshittery no longer determining the outcome of the tournaments, imo. Whether that‘s a good thing from a viewer perspective is an entirely different conversation. Weird games have alsways been awesome to watch. But having players that are able to consistently perform really well and having them rarely fall to underdogs who just throw some weird builds they could not have possibly seen coming at them is - at least from a competitive standpoint - a good thing. Yes, and all of them are zergs, what a coincidence. For 3 years the game is great. If you're zerg. C'mon... | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:57 deacon.frost wrote: Yes, and all of them are zergs, what a coincidence. For 3 years the game is great. If you're zerg. C'mon... If your enjoyment of game depends on race that wins tournaments, you would consider blink era the best of them all. Not sure what'd you call that. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15875 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:30 tigon_ridge wrote: SHHHHHHH. These people aren't supposed to know that zerg isn't actually op, and that it's just the top two players skewing the statistics with their superior consistency. Please be respectful as to not dispel their delusion prematurely. Let it melt slowly and painfully before their myopic eyes. Serral: 38% of Zerg victories since 2018 Maru: 55% of Terran victories since 2018 Maru is skewing the statistics for terran harder than Serral for Zerg. | ||
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:57 deacon.frost wrote: Yes, and all of them are zergs, what a coincidence. For 3 years the game is great. If you're zerg. C'mon... That‘s mainly a result of Europa having caught up with Korea in some parts and Europe traditionally having tons of Zerg players. It‘s mostly two, to be honest and they both are from Europe, a scene that has traditionally been dominated by Zerg. In Korea, the Zerg dominance is far less severe. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24154 Posts
I feel the Artosis curse is gradually evolving to encompass more things than dooming his prediction to lose. A game where Arty made the point multiple times that Dark isn’t like those other Zergs, he doesn’t waste his ultras like them... anddd Darks sacced his ultras on a planetary. | ||
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Calliope
297 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:57 deacon.frost wrote: Yes, and all of them are zergs, what a coincidence. For 3 years the game is great. If you're zerg. C'mon... Foreigner bias will have people religiously believing the most lopsided 3 years can be a pure coincidence. Why has there never been such a dominance from foreigners with ANY other race. Hmm... | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On October 10 2020 18:02 Charoisaur wrote: Serral: 38% of Zerg victories since 2018 Maru: 55% of Terran victories since 2018 Maru is skewing the statistics for terran harder than Serral for Zerg. All brain cells have just died. Congratulations. You have accomplished your goal. Jk there's a couple left. Not many needed to debunk stupid. What's your source, and what is a "victory"? Their forms: http://aligulac.com/players/485-Serral/ http://aligulac.com/players/49-Maru/ Serral's non-mirror %s are significantly better. If Maru is skewing more, then maybe aligulac is broken and your imaginary data points prove me wrong. And, I'm not even talking about JUST Serral. The other zerg is arguably just as strong this year as Serral. You know who. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 10 2020 18:03 Swisslink wrote: That‘s mainly a result of Europa having caught up with Korea in some parts and Europe traditionally having tons of Zerg players. It‘s mostly two, to be honest and they both are from Europe, a scene that has traditionally been dominated by Zerg. In Korea, the Zerg dominance is far less severe. sure, that must be it. Rogue winning Blizzcon and 2 IEMs has everything about Korea. Or Dark winning Blizzcon or soO winning IEM. Like look, I don't mind zergs winning, I mind zergs winning all the time. I want to see other champions, you know, so, I don't know, it's about me looking forward for a Protoss champ more than once in a blue moon. On October 10 2020 18:18 tigon_ridge wrote: All brain cells have just died. Congratulations. You have accomplished your goal. Jk there's a couple left. Not many needed to debunk stupid. What's your source, and what is a "victory"? Their forms: http://aligulac.com/players/485-Serral/ http://aligulac.com/players/49-Maru/ Their all-times: http://aligulac.com/players/485-Serral/ http://aligulac.com/players/49-Maru/ Serral's non-mirror %s are significantly better. If Maru is skewing more, then maybe aligulac is broken and your imaginary data points prove me wrong. And, I'm not even talking about JUST Serral. The other zerg is arguably just as strong this year as Serral. You know who. Don't use words you don;'t know what they mean. In the terms of skewing statistics he's right, Maru is bigger anomaly than Serral. ALSO give us the names of them zergs skewing statistics and their titles! You see, Serral would be an anomaly if he would be the only zerg winning something. The issue is that we have Rogue here, Reynor here, Dark, soO, Scarlett That's just the champs I remember. And since many zergs win he's not that big of a skewer. | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On October 10 2020 18:18 deacon.frost wrote: sure, that must be it. Rogue winning Blizzcon and 2 IEMs has everything about Korea. Or Dark winning Blizzcon or soO winning IEM. Like look, I don't mind zergs winning, I mind zergs winning all the time. I want to see other champions, you know, so, I don't know, it's about me looking forward for a Protoss champ more than once in a blue moon. Don't use words you don;'t know what they mean. In the terms of skewing statistics he's right, Maru is bigger anomaly than Serral. ALSO give us the names of them zergs skewing statistics and their titles! I used elementary words. I guess, to you, they must be pretty high-level. I don't know what data you have to back up your opinion, but it seems people around here rely more on feelings than data. "Titles" don't mean much, unless you think whatever the die lands on is more important than consistent results. User was banned for this post. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 10 2020 18:23 tigon_ridge wrote: I used elementary words. I guess, to you, they must be pretty high-level. I don't know what data you have to back up your opinion, but it seems people around here rely more on feelings than data. "Titles" don't mean much, unless you think whatever the die lands on is more important than consistent results. Try to use them correctly the next time then. The names! Where are the 2 names!!!! | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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stilt
France2737 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On October 10 2020 18:16 Calliope wrote: Foreigner bias will have people religiously believing the most lopsided 3 years can be a pure coincidence. Why has there never been such a dominance from foreigners with ANY other race. Hmm... | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15875 Posts
On October 10 2020 18:18 tigon_ridge wrote: All brain cells have just died. Congratulations. You have accomplished your goal. Jk there's a couple left. Not many needed to debunk stupid. What's your source, and what is a "victory"? Their forms: http://aligulac.com/players/485-Serral/ http://aligulac.com/players/49-Maru/ Serral's non-mirror %s are significantly better. If Maru is skewing more, then maybe aligulac is broken and your imaginary data points prove me wrong. And, I'm not even talking about JUST Serral. The other zerg is arguably just as strong this year as Serral. You know who. tournament victories - I thought that was clear. | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On October 10 2020 18:46 deacon.frost wrote: Try to use them correctly the next time then. The names! Where are the 2 names!!!! Oooof! If you still don't know who the two best zergs are, there's nothing anyone can say that will help you. Thanks for correcting my English, Professor. Funny that while you neglect to point out those words, you insist upon my giving you names that should already be apparent. You brought a genuine smile to my face. Always entertaining witnessing a Dunning Kruger effect exhibition. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15875 Posts
On October 10 2020 19:09 tigon_ridge wrote: Oooof! If you still don't know who the two best zergs are, there's nothing anyone can say that will help you. Thanks for correcting my English, Professor. Funny that while you neglect to point out those words, you insist upon my giving you names that should already be apparent. You brought a genuine smile to my face. Always entertaining witnessing a Dunning Kruger effect exhibition. Rogue and Reynor I guess since they won the most this year? | ||
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Slydie
1907 Posts
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Swisslink
2949 Posts
On October 10 2020 18:16 Calliope wrote: Foreigner bias will have people religiously believing the most lopsided 3 years can be a pure coincidence. Why has there never been such a dominance from foreigners with ANY other race. Hmm... Because for the majority of the game‘s existence Koreans were dominating the foreign scene. Hard to make a claim based on the current trend of Europeans being able to compete with Koreans. And it‘s not just Serral and Reynor - Clem managed to beat the top dogs as well recently. Just not all of them back to back. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24154 Posts
On October 10 2020 18:16 Calliope wrote: Foreigner bias will have people religiously believing the most lopsided 3 years can be a pure coincidence. Why has there never been such a dominance from foreigners with ANY other race. Hmm... There’s very rarely been a dominant foreigner. Often a clear enough ‘best’ foreigner but the kind of gap Serral and Reynor opened over the rest of foreign land is kind of the exception. Stephano for a brief period, Neeb managed it for a period. Then the Serral monopoly thru duopoly with Reynor. That’s really it to my recollection. Serral and Reynor are as far ahead of other good foreign Zergs as Rogue/Dark/soO have been in recent years from other Korean Zergs. There are lots of factors so it’s not entirely pure coincidence, equally it’s not damningly indicative of Zerg being OP or w/e. The real elite, championship tier of player is still really a small pool, a few pebbles make a huge ripple within its confines. The Protoss losing Classic and herO was a rather big deal for example. On the other side foreign land merely produces one Terran with similar mechanical chops to his Korean counterparts and he’s competing pretty tooth and nail with Serral and Reynor, actually a bit earlier than I’d anticipated. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24154 Posts
On October 10 2020 19:07 Argonauta wrote: sometimes when reading this threads, I imagine Maru or Serral together in a room drinking tea and laughing while reading this fights on TL. I also like to imagine they continually play high stakes matches against each other while having a good laugh over the Serral/Maru matchup curse. | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On October 10 2020 19:12 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue and Reynor I guess since they won the most this year? 2020 Forms, Serral vs Rogue: http://aligulac.com/players/485/results/?after=2020-01-01&before=&event=&race=ptzr&country=KR&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op= http://aligulac.com/players/1662/results/?after=2020-01-01&before=&event=&race=ptzr&country=KR&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op= Rogue isn't even in the same ball-park as Serral. How's your view over there? Is your world warping and tearing, yet? But, whatever... "muh titles" | ||
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Penev
28449 Posts
Was both entertaining and sometimes frustrating to watch with all the questionable plays from everyone bar Trap. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3995 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
On October 10 2020 19:49 Penev wrote: A group with 2 top zergs but the terran and protoss advance with the latter in first place even. The T and P aren't exactly slouches either ofc but still. Was both entertaining and sometimes frustrating to watch with all the questionable plays from everyone bar Trap. What bothers me is that Rogue and Dark got eliminated in this group but Armani advanced because no one challenged TY AT ALL in the Group Selections to the point where he didn't even use the pick swap. These guys need to start actually just forcing some action in the group selections if they don't want to keep going out like this. The fact that Groups C and D were so ridiculously stacked so that we ended up in a situation where the winner of Group D had to face either Stats or Maru is so insane. | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On October 10 2020 20:03 Vindicare605 wrote: What bothers me is that Rogue and Dark got eliminated in this group but Armani advanced because no one challenged TY AT ALL in the Group Selections to the point where he didn't even use the pick swap. These guys need to start actually just forcing some action in the group selections if they don't want to keep going out like this. The fact that Groups C and D were so ridiculously stacked so that we ended up in a situation where the winner of Group D had to face either Stats or Maru is so insane. This is why tournament organizers need to start rating their participants on an elo-based system, so that they can group players more logically. I agree, both Dark and Rogue are much stronger than DRG and Armani, but I do hope the latter two prove me wrong. I'm a particular fan of DRG, so I want to see him do well. | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
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Penev
28449 Posts
On October 10 2020 20:03 Vindicare605 wrote: What bothers me is that Rogue and Dark got eliminated in this group but Armani advanced because no one challenged TY AT ALL in the Group Selections to the point where he didn't even use the pick swap. These guys need to start actually just forcing some action in the group selections if they don't want to keep going out like this. The fact that Groups C and D were so ridiculously stacked so that we ended up in a situation where the winner of Group D had to face either Stats or Maru is so insane. That and abolish the swap. I like the groups selection with the banter and all but ultimately more balanced groups are preferable indeed. On another note, I am actually happy how this group turned out (despite 1:2 bets). Stats' chances to win went significantly up I'd say. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16053 Posts
There should have been at least ONE more decent player in Group A, and Zoun, Dream and Armani one of them at least should have been in another group. TY can't pick swap all of them. | ||
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Dave4
494 Posts
Not accusing but after Life I never know what to believe anymore | ||
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Slydie
1907 Posts
On October 10 2020 20:03 Vindicare605 wrote: What bothers me is that Rogue and Dark got eliminated in this group but Armani advanced because no one challenged TY AT ALL in the Group Selections to the point where he didn't even use the pick swap. These guys need to start actually just forcing some action in the group selections if they don't want to keep going out like this. The fact that Groups C and D were so ridiculously stacked so that we ended up in a situation where the winner of Group D had to face either Stats or Maru is so insane. I am not sure if group B was any harder to get out of than group C, but group A was a lot easier than the rest this time. I know DRG as a fantastic muta player, and that seems to be one of the ways Zerg can really bully Terran these days. Dark's muta/ling/bane was not as impressive, and Inno is just too good against that style. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24154 Posts
On October 10 2020 20:32 Dave4 wrote: Does anyone have a feeling the Rogue games were a bit ... sus?... the broodlords and the way he played in the last rush too... seemed very very low level .. Not accusing but after Life I never know what to believe anymore Rogue almost always throws in weird stuff or cheesy builds, when they work he looks ruthless, when they don’t he can look a bit silly. The brood thing was only particularly weird because it isn’t something we see in the matchup very often at all. Ultras into terrible engagement into a loss is so common that it doesn’t raise an eyebrow, Broods in ZvZ less so. Was pretty bloody bad though, not sure what he was thinking. Might watch the FPVoD to see what he saw of Dark’s forces. Maybe he misread the Viper count horribly? | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On October 10 2020 20:32 Dave4 wrote: Does anyone have a feeling the Rogue games were a bit ... sus?... the broodlords and the way he played in the last rush too... seemed very very low level .. Not accusing but after Life I never know what to believe anymore I think Rogue was trying to execute an idea he'd been practicing, and it probably worked out in practice, but just not in this particular instance. I think viewers are too quick to judge pro players' (who btw are much better than them at the game) decisions. What have been people been saying about ultras for ages? "Build ultras to throw game." Many memes later, Serral and other top zergs continue to crush with ultras. | ||
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Penev
28449 Posts
On October 10 2020 20:32 Dave4 wrote: Does anyone have a feeling the Rogue games were a bit ... sus?... the broodlords and the way he played in the last rush too... seemed very very low level .. Not accusing but after Life I never know what to believe anymore Not sure about sus but some were certainly very bad. And what about Inno vs Trap? Some very questionable plays this group. | ||
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Dave4
494 Posts
On October 10 2020 20:41 tigon_ridge wrote: I think Rogue was trying to execute an idea he'd been practicing, and it probably worked out in practice, but just not in this particular instance. I think viewers are too quick to judge pro players' (who btw are much better than them at the game) decisions. What have been people been saying about ultras for ages? "Build ultras to throw game." Many memes later, Serral and other top zergs continue to crush with ultras. The broodlord game is definitely one thing but I can put that down to trying surprise and not paying off... but then look at his drone/ling rush game ... he spends so much time literally running in circles. The whole point of that build is you need to kill them off. He spends ages literally letting Dark build spines ... and when he has the huge lead after the initial battle he pulls back even though Dark has no lings and is down to one spine vs 2 + lings ... Would be interested to hear what a pro thinks of it anyway. Again I'm not accusing of anything but I just don't know what's going on in his head, it doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm just not reading the movements well. | ||
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RKC
2847 Posts
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sparklyresidue
United States5522 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15875 Posts
On October 10 2020 19:48 tigon_ridge wrote: 2020 Forms, Serral vs Rogue: http://aligulac.com/players/485/results/?after=2020-01-01&before=&event=&race=ptzr&country=KR&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op= http://aligulac.com/players/1662/results/?after=2020-01-01&before=&event=&race=ptzr&country=KR&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op= Rogue isn't even in the same ball-park as Serral. How's your view over there? Is your world warping and tearing, yet? But, whatever... "muh titles" People are complaining about Zergs winning too many tournaments - not about Serral having a too high winrate, so your statistics are meaningless in this context. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On October 10 2020 21:34 tskarzyn wrote: Is there a strategic reason for creating a group of death? Why do players keep doing this to themselves... RIP Rogue Its goal is perhaps to prove the point I've been hammering for years: These tournament formats suck hard, and produce more or less dice-rolled 1st place winners. I mean, at least foreign organizers try to make it more sophisticated with a lower bracket, but these Koreans don't even bother. Lack of sophistication, in favor of "tension" and "excitement." Whatever. The way to grow SC2 is to set it apart form other esports. The game is clearly more cerebral than every other video game, so why not try to set up the tournaments to match? Why keep going with this archaic, overly simplistic single-elim BS? At the very least, group players based on their proven skill levels. No change = no progress. | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On October 10 2020 21:25 Charoisaur wrote: People are complaining about Zergs winning too many tournaments - not about Serral having a too high winrate, so your statistics are meaningless in this context. LoL I'm not playing your "move the goal post" game. You were asking for who the top 2 zergs are, and I implicitly gave you the answer in that post...which you obviously don't like. 2 + 2 = 5 is what you wanted to hear. Btw, no, Rogue/Dark isn't the other zerg. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15875 Posts
On October 10 2020 21:53 tigon_ridge wrote: LoL I'm not playing your "move the goal post" game. You were asking for who the top 2 zergs are, and I implicitly gave you the answer in that post...which you obviously don't like. 2 + 2 = 5 is what you wanted to hear. Btw, no, Rogue/Dark isn't the other zerg. you moved the goalpost. SHHHHHHH. These people aren't supposed to know that zerg isn't actually op, and that it's just the top two players skewing the statistics with their superior consistency. Please be respectful as to not dispel their delusion prematurely. Let it melt slowly and painfully before their myopic eyes. this is what you wrote if you remember. and people are not complaining because Serral's winrate is too high but because Zergs are winning to many tournaments - and Reynor and Serral are not the only contributors to that... | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On October 10 2020 22:04 Charoisaur wrote: you moved the goalpost. this is what you wrote if you remember. and people are not complaining because Serral's winrate is too high but because Zergs are winning to many tournaments - and Reynor and Serral are not the only contributors to that... I don't know why you're doing this. Desperate attempt at saving face? I clearly was just specifically answering your question about who are the best players in that post. Regarding the latter post you quoted, I've already argued that point with data to support. So, your counterargument is that Reynor and Serral are not the only disproportionate contributors to zerg's dominance this year. Where's your data for this? The fact that Rogue won a tournament? That's not statistically relevant. Oh, but here I go again lecturing on statistics, and how tourny wins are not a useful number... Literally, if it were, players like soO and Scarlett would've been considered stronger than Serral at some point with those big $$$$ tournament wins (absolutely hilarious). | ||
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Husyelt
United States822 Posts
_____ General Tourneys Strategy Custom Maps External Content Balance Discussion and Serral Maru _____ | ||
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RKC
2847 Posts
On October 10 2020 21:49 tigon_ridge wrote: Its goal is perhaps to prove the point I've been hammering for years: These tournament formats suck hard, and produce more or less dice-rolled 1st place winners. I mean, at least foreign organizers try to make it more sophisticated with a lower bracket, but these Koreans don't even bother. Lack of sophistication, in favor of "tension" and "excitement." Whatever. The way to grow SC2 is to set it apart form other esports. The game is clearly more cerebral than every other video game, so why not try to set up the tournaments to match? Why keep going with this archaic, overly simplistic single-elim BS? At the very least, group players based on their proven skill levels. No change = no progress. Not sure what you're getting at. GSL group stages is dual-elimination. Top two gets out. Introducing a dual elimination format in the knockout rounds doesn't change the Top 8 players. If you're suggesting that the groups should be decided by random based on seedings, that doesn't change much either. Going by GSL points, I believe the tiering would be: Rogue (1),Inno & Trap (2), Dark (3). Sure, the current composition wouldn't be possible, but there's a chance of an equally strong but lowly-ranked player like Maru, Byun or Zoun to fill up the Group of Death. Group of Death happens all the time in sports, even with seedings in place. A fully knockout format is even more susceptible to bracket luck and stacking. Not sure how the grouping can be fixed unless you revamp the entire format (power-matching league system like chess). | ||
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J. Corsair
United States470 Posts
On October 10 2020 22:17 tigon_ridge wrote: I don't know why you're doing this. Desperate attempt at saving face? I clearly was just specifically answering your question about who are the best players in that post. Regarding the latter post you quoted, I've already argued that point with data to support. So, your counterargument is that Reynor and Serral are not the only disproportionate contributors to zerg's dominance this year. Where's your data for this? The fact that Rogue won a tournament? That's not statistically relevant. Oh, but here I go again lecturing on statistics, and how tourny wins are not a useful number... Literally, if it were, players like soO and Scarlett would've been considered stronger than Serral at some point with those big $$$$ tournament wins (absolutely hilarious). You sound quite pretentious. Implying people's qualms with Zerg's dominance 'this year'? This year? How long have you been following SC2? Since you're fond of statistics, show us the premier tournament results from 2017-current, and break them down by race. I believe Zerg have more wins than Terran and Protoss combined, or something similar to that. The race that has the fastest and cheapest tier 1 unit, can mass produce and tech-switch with instantaneous remax capability... this is an issue. And the fact that Protoss has a warp-in mechanic and can remax instantaneously as well would lead you to believe they would share a similar advantage over Terran. But the results simply don't indicate that. It is fairly well known that to win with the Terran race, at the highest level, is likely the most physically demanding. I don't blame players for choosing zerg or protoss instead of terran - to achieve the same results with terran requires a great deal more effort, as indicated by the wrist problems that have plagued the majority of top-tier terran players in SC2 and Brood War, as well. The mechanical system of SC2, and with the LOTV update's emphasis on expanding, Zerg is the obvious choice when discussing which race has the most inherent advantages. Creep's speed bonus is one huge culprit, but I digress. I am trying to elaborate on what the other poster was attempting to emphasize. Maybe some of this will be of benefit. Very happy to see Innovation and Trap make it through. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15875 Posts
On October 10 2020 22:17 tigon_ridge wrote: I don't know why you're doing this. Desperate attempt at saving face? I clearly was just specifically answering your question about who are the best players in that post. Regarding the latter post you quoted, I've already argued that point with data to support. So, your counterargument is that Reynor and Serral are not the only disproportionate contributors to zerg's dominance this year. Where's your data for this? The fact that Rogue won a tournament? That's not statistically relevant. Oh, but here I go again lecturing on statistics, and how tourny wins are not a useful number... Literally, if it were, players like soO and Scarlett would've been considered stronger than Serral at some point with those big $$$$ tournament wins (absolutely hilarious). You said Zerg isn't too strong, it's just Reynor and Serral. Then I pointed out that there are other players that win just as much or almost as much and then you make stupid excuses and change the discussion topic I guess because you have no arguments left? | ||
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
On October 10 2020 20:21 Z3nith wrote: Are there any games worth watching? Every series was amazing. Except the winners math which was a stomp. And maybe the last series but still interested. Really cool games. Trap vs Dark was great. | ||
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Slydie
1907 Posts
 King of BattlesI seriously hope for some P/Z success in GSL now, as we might see nerfs otherwise... But TBH, most balance issues can be solved through the map pool. For now, the current one seems Terran favoured. | ||
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1669 Posts
sad for our world champ. | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On October 11 2020 06:07 ShowTheLights wrote: With Darks loss, he is eliminated from Blizzcon right? or whatever it is now. Only 300 pts left in super tournament 2 and that still puts him under Cure who is 8th sad for our world champ. The World Championship (IEM Katowice) isn't 16 players anymore, it's 36. Dark will be fine. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13962 Posts
On October 10 2020 15:45 Cricketer12 wrote: Alright here's the hot take. If Inno advances, TY > Maru finals If its not this its Maru > Stats | ||
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