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[IEM XII] Shanghai 2017 - Quarter Finals - Page 32

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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c0sm0naut
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1229 Posts
July 29 2017 18:13 GMT
#621
On July 30 2017 01:39 Kaizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2017 16:56 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote:
You guys really find reapers more abusive than say, the proxy photon overcharge rush?

I just don't get the hate on reapers, if you could just a move and cheese with em, it would make sense to me.

If you nerf the reaper, whats the point of the unit anymore? Seriously, it kills nothing but lingsand drones. If this were a TvT complaint it would make much more sense to me.

I couldn't stand invulnerable nydus all ins when they were all the rage..... you would see guys like TY cheeesed out by it all the time....

I think you guys should admit you just don't like BYUN, lol which is fine.... My thing is the players should be able to stop this.

You know people KEEP saying it's not BYUN reapers that are OP. They banned me cause I made a lot of post illustrating how sOO destroyed Marus reapers in GSL. But here he struggles vs Byuns reapers, but people still wanna make it about the REAPER, AND not BYUN


I gave up on convincing people with facts and numbers. I had a detailed post with aligulac records and numbers and percentages and people just ignored it and refused to look at the numbers.

And all the bs on uthermal kelazhur major blah blah blah.

Really? Out of all the players people claim to abuse reapers, Byun is the ONLY one that has won significant tournaments because of it.

In Europe, when we talk about the very best players, we have Elazer, Showtime, Nerchio, Snute, Serral. uThermal is nowhere near the conversation.

In America, most would recognize Neeb as the clear Top player with Major, Scarlett and Kelazhur close.

And come on, who won the last WCS? Elazer !! A Zerg !!

If reapers are really so breaking, Terrans should be winning everything !!

This isn't like gglord/winfestor. That was broken because zerg was winning everything with it at its peak !! Suddenly every top player in the scene at that time and up and comers were all zerg ! Those units were broken.

It is not like Terrans are winning everything with reapers. We don't even see foreigner terrans dominate the scene with it.

Sure they win some games against Zerg with it. But i have also seen Korean zergs completely shut it off when other terrans try it. Good example would be Maru. He just wasn't good enough at it.

I still stick to my point. It is not reapers which is OP. It is Byun. Some people are hating on it just because they don't like to see people win games with Micro. But guess what. A lot of people also enjoying seeing Micro skill instead of just Macro skills.

And some more numbers for the haters.

http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/

June 2017, out of 1546 games, TvZ win rate : 47.15%

May 2017, out of 1684 games, TvZ win rate : 47.15%

April 2017, out of 1597 games, TvZ win rate : 49.03%

March 2017, out of 1406 games, TvZ win rate : 48.08%

In fact you had to go back to Jan 2017 before Terrans had a over 50% win rate over Zergs.

But yeah, people would just ignore it. This is why people like trump become president.


great post

this is exactly why people like trump become president, people can watch 15-20 min long games where soo is up 50 supply, watch him crash like 40+ supply of banes into tanks/marauders and at the end say "darn those reapers to hell!!!"
Snijjer
Profile Joined September 2011
United States989 Posts
July 29 2017 18:38 GMT
#622
On July 30 2017 01:56 yhellothere12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2017 01:44 Fango wrote:
On July 30 2017 00:50 yhellothere12 wrote:
On July 30 2017 00:29 VHbb wrote:
I will NEVER understand how some people watch an amazing tournament, with some of the best players in the world, and instead of enjoying the game, they come here to whine about balance / design / whatever..

Are you not able to enjoy anything? Just.. enjoy some entertainment without having to start with the snarky comments and the petty remarks.. ?


This so much. I swear.... any time a player of either race wins a battle in a match it's a flood of "omg X race so imba". And any time a player loses, everyone just starts saying the PRO player is BAD.

Can people just enjoy the games?


Thing is, whenever something is legit imbalanced, there are always comments like this. "just because someone lost to it doesn't mean it's imbalanced", "just enjoy the games"

No one's saying reapers need a nerf because soO lost to ByuN, its that its almost impossible for any zerg to trade cost efficiently against 3RR if controlled right.


Fango, the problem with your argument is that most people will enter the conversation with their minds made up and take whatever 'evidence' they can find to fit the argument they want to make, and ignore the rest. If you're debating something is 'legit imbalanced', you have to have statistics or some way of backing your argument up.

It can't be that it simply 'seems' broken. Kaizor in the post above you, as well as many others have already brought the numbers into the mix, and it just does not seem to support the argument that this imbalance exists.


This exactly, everyone who is crying IMBA has no facts to prove their argument.
c0sm0naut
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1229 Posts
July 29 2017 19:19 GMT
#623
and yet, reapers will be nerfed

people just arent comfortable with being attacked until the skill difference between their opponent and themselves gets muddied by 3 bases of saturation
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-29 19:43:50
July 29 2017 19:37 GMT
#624
On July 30 2017 01:56 yhellothere12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2017 01:44 Fango wrote:
On July 30 2017 00:50 yhellothere12 wrote:
On July 30 2017 00:29 VHbb wrote:
I will NEVER understand how some people watch an amazing tournament, with some of the best players in the world, and instead of enjoying the game, they come here to whine about balance / design / whatever..

Are you not able to enjoy anything? Just.. enjoy some entertainment without having to start with the snarky comments and the petty remarks.. ?


This so much. I swear.... any time a player of either race wins a battle in a match it's a flood of "omg X race so imba". And any time a player loses, everyone just starts saying the PRO player is BAD.

Can people just enjoy the games?


Thing is, whenever something is legit imbalanced, there are always comments like this. "just because someone lost to it doesn't mean it's imbalanced", "just enjoy the games"

No one's saying reapers need a nerf because soO lost to ByuN, its that its almost impossible for any zerg to trade cost efficiently against 3RR if controlled right.


Fango, the problem with your argument is that most people will enter the conversation with their minds made up and take whatever 'evidence' they can find to fit the argument they want to make, and ignore the rest. If you're debating something is 'legit imbalanced', you have to have statistics or some way of backing your argument up.

It can't be that it simply 'seems' broken. Kaizor in the post above you, as well as many others have already brought the numbers into the mix, and it just does not seem to support the argument that this imbalance exists.


I haven't gone through every TvZ and worked out the % that 3RR wins. Because obviously not every TvZ is 3RR. My point is that I have no clue how zergs are supposed to trade cost efficiently against in (if the reapers are controlled properly). I'm not saying it's as broken as BL/infestor, or blink stalker allins or anything like that

I have nothing against ByuN for doing it, because he's clearly better at it than standard TvZ. And I think that 3/5 RR should always be a viable proxy/cheese. I just think it's far too effective right now, and not risky enough. You can transition into a CC so easily even if the reapers are mostly shut down. Most people don't even consider it a cheese/allin anymore, just a viable opening.

Honestly, if I was the balance team I would simply reduce (or remove) the damage from the KD8 charge. It makes reapers too cost efficiant against lings. Increasing build time would mess up terran macro

On July 30 2017 03:38 Snijjer wrote:This exactly, everyone who is crying IMBA has no facts to prove their argument.


I actually play terran and open with 3RR against zerg, and proxy 3RR against terran (excluding maps where it isn't viable). Now ofc I'm not GM, and my games aren't an indicator of balance. I'm just saying people can call something out for being OP without it being due to salt
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
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