Don't understand the need for it, 125 minerals for the ebay, u cancel to return 90 is it? U deny not enough mining to make it worth while due to there wouldn't be that many probes out by the time MSC and +2 gateway units kill it. Hmmm
On April 11 2016 19:28 Pandemona wrote: Don't understand the need for it, 125 minerals for the ebay, u cancel to return 90 is it? U deny not enough mining to make it worth while due to there wouldn't be that many probes out by the time MSC and +2 gateway units kill it. Hmmm
It takes forever to kill the ebay because it has so much health and Protoss opens low on units. You get back 94 when you cancel it, so you lose 31 minerals effectively, but the ebay blocks minerals while the Protoss is probing up, it's actually hugely annoying, it costs several 100 minerals of income per minute.
So yeah, Super wins. Kinda thought this might happen.
On April 11 2016 19:28 Pandemona wrote: Don't understand the need for it, 125 minerals for the ebay, u cancel to return 90 is it? U deny not enough mining to make it worth while due to there wouldn't be that many probes out by the time MSC and +2 gateway units kill it. Hmmm
The thing is that to kill the ebay protoss has to keep his early units home as well as the mothership core which makes it harder to scout/pressure terran with those units. On top of that the reaper from terran has an easier time getting into the protoss base.
On April 11 2016 19:36 Pandemona wrote: Dark lost 0-2 to Dream the other day in GSL, is his ZvT that bad he can lose to Bomber?
Terrans are bringing freedom to all those commie zergs and protoss lately
Dream didn't even need to bring the freedom, Dark kinda just died.
I doubt Dark gave it his best in preparation
I doubt he practiced much for the group at all tbh. Probably practiced ZvT for Proleague, hoped his raw skill carries him through GSL and then practiced only for SSL.
On April 11 2016 19:36 Pandemona wrote: Dark lost 0-2 to Dream the other day in GSL, is his ZvT that bad he can lose to Bomber?
Terrans are bringing freedom to all those commie zergs and protoss lately
Dream didn't even need to bring the freedom, Dark kinda just died.
I doubt Dark gave it his best in preparation
I doubt he practiced much for the group at all tbh. Probably practiced ZvT for Proleague, hoped his raw skill carries him through GSL and then practiced only for SSL.
On April 11 2016 19:50 Muffloe wrote: eh, how could they hype the ultras that much? they got rekt lol
Because people still live in the world thinking that Ultras are immortal. Dark made a lot of mistakes though.
Ultras are amazing. But Dark had nothing but ultras on the ground, which is obviously terrible.
Didn't say that they weren't good, just that people think how if someone gets to Ultras it is suddenly over because they are imbalanced and you can't fight against Ultras!
It's kinda understandable how dark ended up with pure ultra - he was scrambling for army, everything but ultras got always repeatedly killed, a lot of the army was split and even though lone ultras are not great, they are still the best thing you can buy for that money - two infestors and ten lings won't do much alone, a single ultra will at least slow down the bio for a while.
But in general, Dark was just not being greedy enough at the start. Also it's funny how he does make banes in ZvP and refuses to do so in ZvT
On April 11 2016 19:50 Muffloe wrote: eh, how could they hype the ultras that much? they got rekt lol
Because people still live in the world thinking that Ultras are immortal. Dark made a lot of mistakes though.
Ultras are amazing. But Dark had nothing but ultras on the ground, which is obviously terrible.
Didn't say that they weren't good, just that people think how if someone gets to Ultras it is suddenly over because they are imbalanced and you can't fight against Ultras!
If you are that far ahead you can of course beat them. In an even game it's 95% over
CJ getting 3-0'd is at least in the realm of what should be considered possible. SKT losing 0-3 to Afreeca would be most hilarious upset since SKT losing 0-3 to SBENU.
On April 11 2016 19:56 opisska wrote: It's kinda understandable how dark ended up with pure ultra - he was scrambling for army, everything but ultras got always repeatedly killed, a lot of the army was split and even though lone ultras are not great, they are still the best thing you can buy for that money - two infestors and ten lings won't do much alone, a single ultra will at least slow down the bio for a while.
But in general, Dark was just not being greedy enough at the start. Also it's funny how he does make banes in ZvP and refuses to do so in ZvT
dark's macro at the start was great, and he even added in drones for his 4th after killing 70% of bomber's initial 2/4vacdrop force. so he was definitely appropriately 'greedy'. the biggest mistakes were transitioning into banelings and ultralisks rather than sticking on pure roach ravager infestor against an opponent that didn't have a single tank or mine. roach ravager queen with the early infestors dark had would keep him safe forever against bomber's 3base allin, there was no need to make banelings at all compared to adding in a few ravagers/another infestor and the ultra transition (if it ever had to happen) could've been delayed without problem. for example dark had those amazing fungals but no mass ravagers to combo the entire fungal field with. he probably expected bomber to play passive, which in and of itself is a bit weird since bomber has been doing 3cc ~60scv non-stop builds for 5++ years now XD
in the situation he was in though, you're correct, making pure mass ultra is the only reasonable choice since you have excess gas (but not mineral patches) and ultralisks are the only reasonable choice to spend minerals on at that point.
On April 11 2016 19:56 opisska wrote: It's kinda understandable how dark ended up with pure ultra - he was scrambling for army, everything but ultras got always repeatedly killed, a lot of the army was split and even though lone ultras are not great, they are still the best thing you can buy for that money - two infestors and ten lings won't do much alone, a single ultra will at least slow down the bio for a while.
But in general, Dark was just not being greedy enough at the start. Also it's funny how he does make banes in ZvP and refuses to do so in ZvT
He rushed to ultralisk on like 130 supply, how is that not greedy?
On April 11 2016 19:56 opisska wrote: It's kinda understandable how dark ended up with pure ultra - he was scrambling for army, everything but ultras got always repeatedly killed, a lot of the army was split and even though lone ultras are not great, they are still the best thing you can buy for that money - two infestors and ten lings won't do much alone, a single ultra will at least slow down the bio for a while.
But in general, Dark was just not being greedy enough at the start. Also it's funny how he does make banes in ZvP and refuses to do so in ZvT
dark's macro at the start was great, and he even added in drones for his 4th after killing 70% of bomber's initial 2/4vacdrop force. so he was definitely appropriately 'greedy'. the biggest mistakes were transitioning into banelings and ultralisks rather than sticking on pure roach ravager infestor against an opponent that didn't have a single tank or mine. roach ravager queen with the early infestors dark had would keep him safe forever against bomber's 3base allin, there was no need to make banelings at all compared to adding in a few ravagers/another infestor and the ultra transition (if it ever had to happen) could've been delayed without problem. for example dark had those amazing fungals but no mass ravagers to combo the entire fungal field with. he probably expected bomber to play passive, which in and of itself is a bit weird since bomber has been doing 3cc ~60scv non-stop builds for 5++ years now XD
in the situation he was in though, you're correct, making pure mass ultra is the only reasonable choice since you have excess gas (but not mineral patches) and ultralisks are the only reasonable choice to spend minerals on at that point.
Interesting analysis! I find it still hard to judge, when roach/ravager is good and when it isn't.
On April 11 2016 20:12 OtherWorld wrote: OMG they're throwing up on the Nexus someone fine them for material damage, it's impolite to throw up on public buildings like that
While chewing at buildings is completely acceptable?
On April 11 2016 20:12 OtherWorld wrote: OMG they're throwing up on the Nexus someone fine them for material damage, it's impolite to throw up on public buildings like that
While chewing at buildings is completely acceptable?
Or shooting them for that matter.
well if you're shooting at a building people are rather happy that you're not shooting them instead chewing at buildings is a judiciary black hole I guess
On April 11 2016 19:58 Heartland wrote: Ultras are good, but people have learned how to play vs them a lot more
Yes. Get so far ahead that the zerg can only afford a handful of them without any support.
It's about more than that really.
Well if you have such narrow view of the game as him, I can clearly see how they are imbalanced.
TvZ as a whole is o course balance because you can kill the zerg because he gets to lategame but tvz lategame is clearly imbalanced. From all the GSL/SSL games I've seen there have been maybe 3-4 where the zerg got to lategame in a somewhat even state and lost (Maru vs leenock, solar vs innovation, cure vs solar, taeja vs rogue.) while there have been at least 20-30 games where the zerg won. in my mind a ~80% winrate is imbalanced.
OMG they're throwing up on the Nexus someone fine them for material damage, it's impolite to throw up on public buildings like that
I think it's a justified reaction to the senseless aggression of the Protoss. Just because you're sitting in golden buildings doesn't mean you can harm other races with impunity.
On April 11 2016 19:58 Heartland wrote: Ultras are good, but people have learned how to play vs them a lot more
Yes. Get so far ahead that the zerg can only afford a handful of them without any support.
It's about more than that really.
Well if you have such narrow view of the game as him, I can clearly see how they are imbalanced.
TvZ as a whole is o course balance because you can kill the zerg because he gets to lategame but tvz lategame is clearly imbalanced. From all the GSL/SSL games I've seen there have been maybe 3-4 where the zerg got to lategame in a somewhat even state and lost (Maru vs leenock, solar vs innovation, cure vs solar, taeja vs rogue.) while there have been at least 20-30 games where the zerg won. in my mind a ~80% winrate is imbalanced.
Well in Korea TvZ winrate is currently Terran favored. So saying Zerg wins 80% of the time when they get to late game in even footing means that Terran is massively favored in the early and midgame.
On April 11 2016 19:58 Heartland wrote: Ultras are good, but people have learned how to play vs them a lot more
Yes. Get so far ahead that the zerg can only afford a handful of them without any support.
It's about more than that really.
Well if you have such narrow view of the game as him, I can clearly see how they are imbalanced.
TvZ as a whole is o course balance because you can kill the zerg because he gets to lategame but tvz lategame is clearly imbalanced. From all the GSL/SSL games I've seen there have been maybe 3-4 where the zerg got to lategame in a somewhat even state and lost (Maru vs leenock, solar vs innovation, cure vs solar, taeja vs rogue.) while there have been at least 20-30 games where the zerg won. in my mind a ~80% winrate is imbalanced.
Well in Korea TvZ winrate is currently Terran favored. So saying Zerg wins 80% of the time when they get to late game in even footing means that Terran is massively favored in the early and midgame.
On April 11 2016 19:58 Heartland wrote: Ultras are good, but people have learned how to play vs them a lot more
Yes. Get so far ahead that the zerg can only afford a handful of them without any support.
It's about more than that really.
Well if you have such narrow view of the game as him, I can clearly see how they are imbalanced.
TvZ as a whole is o course balance because you can kill the zerg because he gets to lategame but tvz lategame is clearly imbalanced. From all the GSL/SSL games I've seen there have been maybe 3-4 where the zerg got to lategame in a somewhat even state and lost (Maru vs leenock, solar vs innovation, cure vs solar, taeja vs rogue.) while there have been at least 20-30 games where the zerg won. in my mind a ~80% winrate is imbalanced.
Well in Korea TvZ winrate is currently Terran favored. So saying Zerg wins 80% of the time when they get to late game in even footing means that Terran is massively favored in the early and midgame.
Nah mate, didn't you hear? Those Zergs need to learn to play, TvZ is obviously Zerg favored...
On April 11 2016 20:11 Penev wrote: drown in pee you filthy toss
User was warned for this post
sigh, it's a joke about the corruptors peeing on the nexus..
-_______________-
Pee is not green [edit : unless somehow bile gets to your bladder I guess], should have said "drown in vomit you filthy toss" nah seriously, mods tend to do stupid things/misunderstand jokes sometimes
On April 11 2016 20:30 Ramiz1989 wrote: Understandable about SoO pick, but aLive pick is really strange even though he has been solid lately.
Probably practiced specifically for Ace match on overgrowth since he wasn't played. Pretty good chance it was gonna be a Zerg with Dark looking good lately.
On April 11 2016 20:39 Durnuu wrote: God this Hush vs Zest game. What a stomp
It was so sad. I wanted Hush to leave the game quicker. He was already super dead and just kept getting hammered more and more. I think he lost ~80 probes that game. ByuL lost ~85 drones against TY and Bunny lost another 70. CJ can't even keep their workers safe.
And that's why I thought it was stupid that the casters went 5-2 in favor of Hush against Blaze.
On April 11 2016 19:56 opisska wrote: It's kinda understandable how dark ended up with pure ultra - he was scrambling for army, everything but ultras got always repeatedly killed, a lot of the army was split and even though lone ultras are not great, they are still the best thing you can buy for that money - two infestors and ten lings won't do much alone, a single ultra will at least slow down the bio for a while.
But in general, Dark was just not being greedy enough at the start. Also it's funny how he does make banes in ZvP and refuses to do so in ZvT
Even though darks opener can seem like its not macro focused because he opens pool and gas before hatchery you gotta say that staying on 6 lings and 2 roaches and droning to 60-70 drones is appropiately greedy. Like snute said the problem is going for quick ultras on top of that not realizing that bomber is gonna do a 3 base pure bio all in streaming units across non stop. I really like this opener from dark as it makes you able to play reactive to what the terran is doing in both aggressive and passive ways.
On April 12 2016 00:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Surprised this wasn't a 3-0 for SKT, but happy we still eked out the win in the end It's because we're soO good
I nearly had a heart attack when both INno and Dark fell to Super and Bomber. But holy crap, soO and Dream kept our hopes aLive WAY TO GO SOO! THAT'S MA BOY! 2 WINS TODAY BABY! 2 WINS!
EPT
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