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The next map is a very good Terran map, and it obviously factored into who starts for the opening game. Interestingly both teams fielded their 2nd best Terran to start the night. We will most likely to see another Terran being sent, probably either Flash or Maru, for the next game. We are going to have two TvTs in a row. When was the last time that happened?
On July 28 2014 09:08 jellyjello wrote: The next map is a very good Terran map, and it obviously factored into who starts for the opening game. Interestingly both teams fielded their 2nd best Terran to start the night. We will most likely to see another Terran being sent, probably either Flash or Maru, for the next game. We are going to have two TvTs in a row. When was the last time that happened?
On July 28 2014 09:08 jellyjello wrote: The next map is a very good Terran map, and it obviously factored into who starts for the opening game. Interestingly both teams fielded their 2nd best Terran to start the night. We will most likely to see another Terran being sent, probably either Flash or Maru, for the next game. We are going to have two TvTs in a row. When was the last time that happened?
I would send Stats if TY loses.
Not sure if I'd keep Flash as the ace. At the current rate, he's very unlikely to beat sOs. But then again, this is the winner's league format and you never know with Flash in this environment.
I'm rooting for KT, but I can't help being worried. Maru and sOs are really good players, and in an all-kill format, I'm not sure KT has people that are good enough to snipe them both reliably. I mean Zest, FlaSh or even TY definitely can beat them, but I wouldn't call any KT player favored over those 2... Anyway, gogo KT ! For an all telecom finals ! \o/
On July 28 2014 16:41 LoneYoShi wrote: I'm rooting for KT, but I can't help being worried. Maru and sOs are really good players, and in an all-kill format, I'm not sure KT has people that are good enough to snipe them both reliably. I mean Zest, FlaSh or even TY definitely can beat them, but I wouldn't call any KT player favored over those 2... Anyway, gogo KT ! For an all telecom finals ! \o/
My feelings exactly, I think all kill suits Jin Air over KT, KT can do it, but I think they are slightly up against it.
On July 28 2014 16:41 LoneYoShi wrote: I'm rooting for KT, but I can't help being worried. Maru and sOs are really good players, and in an all-kill format, I'm not sure KT has people that are good enough to snipe them both reliably. I mean Zest, FlaSh or even TY definitely can beat them, but I wouldn't call any KT player favored over those 2... Anyway, gogo KT ! For an all telecom finals ! \o/
I feel so behind the times now. I remember when All-Kill meant KT autowin.
On July 28 2014 18:18 Pandemona wrote: Maru and $O$ carry us into a day 3 please I do agree with others though, SKT vs KT finals on a floating island in the river is a dream final
On July 28 2014 18:18 Pandemona wrote: Maru and $O$ carry us into a day 3 please I do agree with others though, SKT vs KT finals on a floating island in the river is a dream final
But Jin Air are Jin Air :D
Jin Air gon get crushed doe.
Oh ye of little faith. Maru and sOs are both capable of godmoding any team in the universe.
On July 28 2014 18:18 Pandemona wrote: Maru and $O$ carry us into a day 3 please I do agree with others though, SKT vs KT finals on a floating island in the river is a dream final
But Jin Air are Jin Air :D
Jin Air gon get crushed doe.
Oh ye of little faith. Maru and sOs are both capable of godmoding any team in the universe.
On July 28 2014 18:33 LoneYoShi wrote: I'm at work and won't be able to follow. Any kind soul around to LR or at least do a postgame recap pls ? <3
I think templar is gonna LR
And i'll recap if his alarm doesn't go off :D Or force hungover drunken Lorning to LR :D Might have to offer him a bacon sammich in return for it though....but im sure he will accept on that condition.
On July 28 2014 19:00 Foreverkul wrote: I remember a few years ago when I was like "Ugggggh another TvT?" and "Ohhh! PvP!" Now its "Ugggggh another PvP?" and "Ohhh! TvT!"
Birthday hats still on the heads of SCVs as we continue to celebrate the birthday of Sc2!!! (Also its Zealously birthday so don't mention RorO!)
Gas and Rax same time for TY whilst Cure goes Rax and more SCV Cure takes his gas after the extra SCV Awww cameraman shows picture of Maru opposite his birthday cake, as it too is his birthday Reaper for TY now as Marine starts for Cure Birthday hat SCV escapes for TY though who managed to scout CC down for TY Reactor on rax for Cure CC for Cure Factory for TY Reaper in the main but runs out after scouting the CC in the main from Cure SCV of Cure nearly kills an SCV making the CC low ground Reaper cleans up the SCV harassing SCVs of TY xD Factory has reactor on in the main for Cure as starport starts 2nd factory for TY in his main though as both produce hellions Blue flame for TY whilst Cure is just doing drops Starport now for TY and an Ebay for Cure TY gets his reaper into the main again though!! Drop from Cure in the main, scouts the 2nd factory He runs his hellions into the natural of TY at the same time Damage everywhere, being cleaned up though, lifts up his marin drop and heads to the natural Hellions greet it though Follow up from Cure is cloak banshee Blue flame completes now for TY and his medivac is incoming for drops too! Cure managed to bank himself a 10 SCV lead though with that harass However 13 blue flame hellions are on the map now vs 1banshee 6 hellions and 3 marines Mine production for TY 3rd cc for both players TY drop taking a while to find a place to land and eventually lands in the main SCVs and their party hats being burnt to a crisp! TY kills 10 SCVs and Cure had killed 13! 5 SCV difference in the worker lead now in favor of Cure Cure running across the map with his 19 hellions! now blue flame too Oh mine shot OH MINE SHOT HELLO!!! Huge shot killing 4 hellions Drop in the main another mine shot huge and kills drop ship Hellion runby in Cure main roasting SCVs again oh my TY harass is very good and the mines so strong 40 SCVs are dead now for Cure, huge damage 55 SCVs for TY 35 for Cure! Banshee gets picked off in the middle of the map as well TY just took a huge lead in this game Both players mech'ing it 3tanks for TY 5 for Cure though Hellbats are TRANSFORMED! now for TY though and heads for multi drops Cure spots one with his medivac drop though Oh my so much carnage in Cures mineral lines Hellions everywhere on the map 48SCVs of Cure vs 64 of TY Cure now has hellbats and drops and stops the 4th CC being made of TY Cures 4th CC is up TY going for a push with his mech, has 3 less tanks compared to Cure though Sieged up in the map and Cure donates TY all his hellbats, strange choice. Hellbat drop in Cures main Air dominance proving valuable for TY here as he had 8 vikings unmatched around the skies Thor production for Cure as his 4th cc is being rained down on by Tanks 4th CC of Cure dies to tank harass from low ground Hellbats in the 3rd of TY from Cure and kills a few SCVs well its on 11 kills right now 13....TY a bit slow to react to that one Bit of poking from Cure around the natural area but no chance of pushing so he backs off Now TY is transitioning into BCs due to his air dominance Hellbat double drops continue to occur and SCVs continue to burn Engagement in the area of Cures new 4th Ravens seeker missile on 2 tanks kill them both Mine production for Cure to try help out killing this air dominance of TY Hellion runby to the 4th of TY BC is out and harassing Cures tank line Cure forced to move back 4th cc of Cure again being rained down by tank fire and again it dies Now we move across to the left hand side and a similar result ensues with Cure losing his army and having to retreat Now back on the right hand side with BCs and tanks and the 3rd dies TY now in a league of his own. GG from Cure is called
On July 28 2014 19:00 Foreverkul wrote: I remember a few years ago when I was like "Ugggggh another TvT?" and "Ohhh! PvP!" Now its "Ugggggh another PvP?" and "Ohhh! TvT!"
The mirrors are a lot more similar than either race would like to admit.
On July 28 2014 18:59 partydude89 wrote: casters seem to really like TY
Wouldn't you?
don't get me wrong, i'm a TY fan myself, it just can get a little under my skin when they can't stop talking about how good he is, especially after yesterday when wolf was talking about how he doesn't have a favorite player/team because he doesn't want to be biased.
On July 28 2014 19:00 Foreverkul wrote: I remember a few years ago when I was like "Ugggggh another TvT?" and "Ohhh! PvP!" Now its "Ugggggh another PvP?" and "Ohhh! TvT!"
"I really want to watch a PvP" - said noone ever.
Im talking about years ago when PvP wasn't that common and I just started watching, so everything was still interesting
On July 28 2014 18:59 partydude89 wrote: casters seem to really like TY
Wouldn't you?
don't get me wrong, i'm a TY fan myself, it just can get a little under my skin when they can't stop talking about how good he is, especially after yesterday when wolf was talking about how he doesn't have a favorite player/team because he doesn't want to be biased.
Can't really blame them. He just crushed face in his last two TvT's.
On July 28 2014 19:00 Foreverkul wrote: I remember a few years ago when I was like "Ugggggh another TvT?" and "Ohhh! PvP!" Now its "Ugggggh another PvP?" and "Ohhh! TvT!"
The mirrors are a lot more similar than either race would like to admit.
Just to make sure I don't flip out for no reason, are you saying TvT and PvP are similar?
Because you can't be saying that, but you seem to be.
On July 28 2014 19:00 Foreverkul wrote: I remember a few years ago when I was like "Ugggggh another TvT?" and "Ohhh! PvP!" Now its "Ugggggh another PvP?" and "Ohhh! TvT!"
The mirrors are a lot more similar than either race would like to admit.
Just to make sure I don't flip out for no reason, are you saying TvT and PvP are similar?
Because you can't be saying that, but you seem to be.
On July 28 2014 19:06 pure.Wasted wrote: If Maru wins this...
Flash vs Maru?
Three TvTs in a row is possible. Just think about that.
I think Stats or Zest would be more likely
Maybe Stats, but I'd bet money they don't send Zest out against Maru. Zest doesn't do any of the things that Maru dies to from Protoss. Their last meeting in Code S proved that.
I don't understand why they're talking about how crazy this is and Maru's at a huge disadvantage. Statisically, Maru's best match up is TvT and Baby's worst match up is TvT. Just because Baby beat him in one game...?
On July 28 2014 19:06 pure.Wasted wrote: If Maru wins this...
Flash vs Maru?
Three TvTs in a row is possible. Just think about that.
I think Stats or Zest would be more likely
Maybe Stats, but I'd bet money they don't send Zest out against Maru. Zest doesn't do any of the things that Maru dies to from Protoss. Their last meeting in Code S proved that.
Yeah I don't see Zest either, in fact I'd be weary of Protoss alltogether lol.
On July 28 2014 19:00 Foreverkul wrote: I remember a few years ago when I was like "Ugggggh another TvT?" and "Ohhh! PvP!" Now its "Ugggggh another PvP?" and "Ohhh! TvT!"
The mirrors are a lot more similar than either race would like to admit.
Just to make sure I don't flip out for no reason, are you saying TvT and PvP are similar?
Because you can't be saying that, but you seem to be.
They have some real similarities. Both matches have the potential for epic lategames and an uncomfortable percentage of 1-2 base quick games. Both matches can become EXTREMELY snowbally without the leading player being taken by surprise, Game 1 just now being a perfect examply. Both have certain units that become essentially the backbone of any mirror composition (Tanks/Immortals).
On July 28 2014 19:10 GolemMadness wrote: I don't understand why they're talking about how crazy this is and Maru's at a huge disadvantage. Statisically, Maru's best match up is TvT and Baby's worst match up is TvT. Just because Baby beat him in one game...?
In SPL Ty's TvT is statistically his best MU actually.
On July 28 2014 19:00 Foreverkul wrote: I remember a few years ago when I was like "Ugggggh another TvT?" and "Ohhh! PvP!" Now its "Ugggggh another PvP?" and "Ohhh! TvT!"
The mirrors are a lot more similar than either race would like to admit.
Just to make sure I don't flip out for no reason, are you saying TvT and PvP are similar?
Because you can't be saying that, but you seem to be.
They have some real similarities. Both matches have the potential for epic lategames and an uncomfortable percentage of 1-2 base quick games. Both matches can become EXTREMELY snowbally without the leading player being taken by surprise, Game 1 just now being a perfect examply. Both have certain units that become essentially the backbone of any mirror composition (Tanks/Immortals).
TvT isn't really snowbally. Just look at last game, Ty was ahead, then behind by 20 supply and then came back and the game stll continued with Cure having a potential comeback oppurtunity but Ty kept outplaying him.
Also disagree with PvP late game being good, 9/10 games it's extremely boring late game. TvT is the reverse here.
Early game is also very differently. 1/2base allins only work if you completley outmicro your opponent in TvT, in PvP however the buildorder luck element is much more dominant.
Honestly, the matchups almost couldn't be more different.
On July 28 2014 19:00 Foreverkul wrote: I remember a few years ago when I was like "Ugggggh another TvT?" and "Ohhh! PvP!" Now its "Ugggggh another PvP?" and "Ohhh! TvT!"
The mirrors are a lot more similar than either race would like to admit.
Just to make sure I don't flip out for no reason, are you saying TvT and PvP are similar?
Because you can't be saying that, but you seem to be.
They have some real similarities. Both matches have the potential for epic lategames and an uncomfortable percentage of 1-2 base quick games. Both matches can become EXTREMELY snowbally without the leading player being taken by surprise, Game 1 just now being a perfect examply. Both have certain units that become essentially the backbone of any mirror composition (Tanks/Immortals).
Some of those are pretty surface similarities, but the potential for epic lategame is there. The difference is with TvT it can happen even in Gold league, but with PvP you have to have a top 5 Protoss vs another top 5 Protoss for it to be possible.
No messing or mention of IM Coach here as Maru is out to try and stop TY for Jin Air here. Gas first and later rax for TY Gas and Rax for Maru Marine first for Maru TY Marine first also Factory for both players and both take 2nd gas Reaper for TY and a hellion Starport for TY Starport for Maru 4 Marines are going to welcome an SCV and kill it Reaper is out for TY and will be greeted the same way But managed to get into the main of maru and see everything he needed too Raven for TY first as he switches his starport onto the tech lab Maru pushes across the map! 1 hellion 4 marines TY has the same though so this is a strange push Oh down goes a few marines and a hellion Stutter step everything 4 SCV kills for Maru (3 actually 1 was killed prior from sctouing) CC for Maru now CC for TY Marine siege game this looks like TY queueing up his Raven to drop two turrets on the natural mineral line Maru is making vikings though double drop in the main of Maru Two siege tanks and few marines Spotted and held nicely by Maru He lost 7 SCVs but that was a big chunk of TY army that died Raven gets picked off by Marus vikings Stim starts for Maru Maru going for a drop of his own in TYs main! Lands his vikings too! TY loses two tanks 1 Left for TY SCVs dieing 2 tanks still up Raven inc now GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG Birthday boy MARUUUUUU
On July 28 2014 19:10 GolemMadness wrote: I don't understand why they're talking about how crazy this is and Maru's at a huge disadvantage. Statisically, Maru's best match up is TvT and Baby's worst match up is TvT. Just because Baby beat him in one game...?
In SPL Ty's TvT is statistically his best MU actually.
TvZ: 57.14% TvP: 58.62% TvT: 56.25%
Including individual leagues, his TvZ and TvP are 8-9% better than his TvT. That's pretty huge.
On July 28 2014 19:00 Foreverkul wrote: I remember a few years ago when I was like "Ugggggh another TvT?" and "Ohhh! PvP!" Now its "Ugggggh another PvP?" and "Ohhh! TvT!"
The mirrors are a lot more similar than either race would like to admit.
Just to make sure I don't flip out for no reason, are you saying TvT and PvP are similar?
Because you can't be saying that, but you seem to be.
They have some real similarities. Both matches have the potential for epic lategames and an uncomfortable percentage of 1-2 base quick games. Both matches can become EXTREMELY snowbally without the leading player being taken by surprise, Game 1 just now being a perfect examply. Both have certain units that become essentially the backbone of any mirror composition (Tanks/Immortals).
Some of those are pretty surface similarities, but the potential for epic lategame is there. The difference is with TvT it can happen even in Gold league, but with PvP you have to have a top 5 Protoss vs another top 5 Protoss for it to be possible.
This isn't really it. Given how many PvP's are played, you would expect alot more games being highlighted as epic. It just happens reallly rarely that we see good PvP's.
In WOL, ftw, TvT was definitely not as good as it is today. It's much more actionpacked in HOTS.
A crazy, gutsy Terran on Overgrowth in a less-than-completely-prepared scenario. I have been waiting for a Gangnam Terran on Overgrowth for SO LONG, could this be the day?
On July 28 2014 19:18 Circumstance wrote: A crazy, gutsy Terran on Overgrowth in a less-than-completely-prepared scenario. I have been waiting for a Gangnam Terran on Overgrowth for SO LONG, could this be the day?
this is not doable on overgrowth, the gold is way too far.
On July 28 2014 19:18 Circumstance wrote: A crazy, gutsy Terran on Overgrowth in a less-than-completely-prepared scenario. I have been waiting for a Gangnam Terran on Overgrowth for SO LONG, could this be the day?
? The distance between main and gold is much higher than on Habitation...
I think that sending any Zerg except Soulkey and SoO against Maru is suicide. Whatever they'd prepared against Maru, they won't survive 11/11 most of the time...
Ahh I see KT's strategy. TY, Flash and Zest train in general, the other players train to snipe sOs or Maru on specific maps. I wonder what Sleep has prepared for this.
You'd think Maru doing this would be so obvious already that a) Sleep would go for an earlier pool b) Maru would stop doing it.. but I guess the mindgames went the other way.. again :D
On July 28 2014 19:15 GumBa wrote: In the last 2 days I have watched more TvT than PvP. Weird
Well, Terrans are buffed and are more broken than Zergs were in BL-Infestor era, so it is not weird at all!
When did Rain learn english?
Rain spoke to me in English when I visited Korea and had him sign a shirt actually.. just Hello, how are you etc. :D
I met Rain in Cologne. He also tried to eat a muffin with a fork for 5 mins, it was hilarious to watch
did you make a photo? :D
Naah didnt want to be rude best part was when he gave up and took a huge bite out of it and had this reeealy satisfied look on his face like a monkey xD
On July 28 2014 19:22 partydude89 wrote: LOL what? this is litterally the last person i expected that currently plays for KT. (does Miso count?)
Yeah probably, which actually surprises me on how small KT is now.
Honestly, I'd have rather seen Sleep than any other KT Zerg. He's had more individual success than Action or Hitman, and he'd still be in GSL, probably, if not for the Great Wall of Ruin.
TvZ the match up now as KT throw a curve ball with Sleep coming out on Overgrowth Whats this, a SCV with his party hat on is running down the map for a proxy rax 2 proxy raxs! Mr Lorning did do the maths a few seconds ago "Maru + TvZ + Overgrowth = 2rax" He is good maths man is Lorning 16P after 15H for Sleep Drones pulled SCVs puled also Choo Choo 6 lings, now 8 lings incoming OH MY OVERLORD Oh huge overlord snipe there from Maru, mistake from Sleep 2 Bunkers trying to complete SC goes down lings and drones rushing Maru Stutter step ensues Zerg and Terran dieing More Terran than zerg though! Oh pushed back! Well held by Sleep Marines and SCVs being hunted by Lings 2 Bunkers completed but they are salvaged now Low ground CC being made by Maru 2 Lings try and stop it but are denied by 4 SCVs greeting 2 rax floating back to the main 3rd CC down for Maru Gas taken by Sleep 2nd gas also taken now 2 Gas for Maru Full wall for Maru now Speed starts and 3rd gas being taken for Sleep Factory down for Maru and his 3rd gas being taken also 3rd Hatch for Sleep Bunker for Maru 4 Marine hit party trying to deny the 3rd He succeeds 3rd is cancelled Maru then gets good value trade vs lings due to hiding in mineral line choke 4th gas taken for Sleep Factory produces a Siege tank and 2more rax and 2 ebay being made Overlord speed for Sleep Starport is up for Maru too, viking first out though 1-1 and Stim for Maru Lair and a roach warren for Sleep 1-1 starts for him too (melee + armor) Overlord gets sniped in the main from Sleep, scouted alot though 3rd CC is at the 3rd for Maru now MMM production for Maru Bane speed and roach speed for Sleep Surely not a roach bane bust now? Yeah, it looks like it is 8 Roaches in productions, make that 13/14 Maru is pushing across the map himself oh my Lings run into the 3rd of maru bunker gets targeted does good damage to the lings though and the lings forced to run away Maru stims into the 3rd of Sleep He scouts all the roaches though, around 20 now He lifts and drops round the back Roaches running to the Natural of Maru he scans and scouts but misses them being morphed i think 2-2 for Maru combat shield inc More tanks for Maru Nice sim city block on his natural Banes kill 3 SD SCVs already lifted at the 3rd Maru looks safe as his drop is killing lots of ZErg Maru dropping whilst turtling on now 2 base 63 drones vs 58SCVs Double drop in the 3rd now of Sleep 3rd hatch being targeted 2-2 for Sleep and burrow 4th hatch and spire too Marine and siege tanks for Maru 3rd Hatch didn't go down as Maru pushes out across the map 4th hatch scouted by the drops Maru making way to the 3rd of Sleep with his main army 48 marines! 2-2 completed sieged up Roaches taking huge damage marines perfect concave Sleep backs up Maru focuses the 3rd and it dies +3 weapons start for maru HOLY Smokes, 21 Muta incoming +3 armor for Maru now too as 2-2 finishes for Sleep Exciting game this! 5 roaches hitting the 3rd of Maru Ohhh muta fly over the bio! Maru scouts it, but loses a few mediavc Sleep targeting marines down Maru still roaming freely around Zergs bases positioning himself Sleep trying to gets his 3rd up (4th was cancelled) 3rd cancelled now too Sleep on 2 base Can't do much, can't engage Maru with his army at the moment. Maru sieged ups and readies the splits Banes muta and roaches come in And all dies Maru wins Maru 2-1 KT Rolster
On July 28 2014 19:39 WGT-Baal wrote: Why Sleep, Why? Why not a pure ling counter right after holding the 2 rax? Maru expanded without any attacking units!
He had to drone. Terran can cancel and expand highground anyway. The problem was afterwards.
On July 28 2014 19:39 WGT-Baal wrote: Why Sleep, Why? Why not a pure ling counter right after holding the 2 rax? Maru expanded without any attacking units!
no speed. Can't know that Maru is going to go double CC on the lowground. If you do that with slowlings against double CC on the highground, you might as well gg with only 17drones/2base/no gas/no tech.
On July 28 2014 19:41 TheDwf wrote: It has to be Zest on Habitation.
But the map. Float to gold is always possibility here with some crazy 1-1-1 from it or whatever. Throwing Zest on that is a bit of a risk for me. Throw Flash out onto that and a TvT is a TvT. I'd keep Zest for after this map.
On July 28 2014 19:41 Heartland wrote: Don't you always send out a P on Habitation?
Normally i think, but this is vs Maru who has so many diverse builds, id rather throw Flash out for a Mirror.
On July 28 2014 19:41 TheDwf wrote: It has to be Zest on Habitation.
But the map. Float to gold is always possibility here with some crazy 1-1-1 from it or whatever. Throwing Zest on that is a bit of a risk for me. Throw Flash out onto that and a TvT is a TvT. I'd keep Zest for after this map.
Lifting to gold is bad, that's not a problem.
Of course, but this is Maru he does crazy shit as im sure your well aware of. Always in your mind surely playing vs him on this map? Rather risk a TvT. Plus Flash vs $O$ isn't going to end well anyway so throwing Flash out to leave a PVP for Zest would be better?
On July 28 2014 19:41 TheDwf wrote: It has to be Zest on Habitation.
But the map. Float to gold is always possibility here with some crazy 1-1-1 from it or whatever. Throwing Zest on that is a bit of a risk for me. Throw Flash out onto that and a TvT is a TvT. I'd keep Zest for after this map.
On July 28 2014 19:41 TheDwf wrote: It has to be Zest on Habitation.
But the map. Float to gold is always possibility here with some crazy 1-1-1 from it or whatever. Throwing Zest on that is a bit of a risk for me. Throw Flash out onto that and a TvT is a TvT. I'd keep Zest for after this map.
Lifting to gold is bad, that's not a problem.
Q: Any last words?
Bbyong: Parting used to say that mech is not viable. And he also said that Gangnam-style Terran does not work against him. But turned out he was brutally beaten by my Gangnam-style Terran. This time, I will make him have even worse memory. If there is such chance, I will beat him with mech (smile).
On July 28 2014 19:41 TheDwf wrote: It has to be Zest on Habitation.
But the map. Float to gold is always possibility here with some crazy 1-1-1 from it or whatever. Throwing Zest on that is a bit of a risk for me. Throw Flash out onto that and a TvT is a TvT. I'd keep Zest for after this map.
Lifting to gold is bad, that's not a problem.
Q: Any last words?
Bbyong: Parting used to say that mech is not viable. And he also said that Gangnam-style Terran [What is Gangnam-style Terran?] does not work against him. But turned out he was brutally beaten by my Gangnam-style Terran. This time, I will make him have even worse memory. If there is such chance, I will beat him with mech (smile).
It refers to gold float, since gangnam is a rich district.
On July 28 2014 19:39 WGT-Baal wrote: Why Sleep, Why? Why not a pure ling counter right after holding the 2 rax? Maru expanded without any attacking units!
no speed. Can't know that Maru is going to go double CC on the lowground. If you do that with slowlings against double CC on the highground, you might as well gg with only 17drones/2base/no gas/no tech.
That's very true, but for what he did afterwards, I am not sure going lings would have been much worse
On July 28 2014 19:41 TheDwf wrote: It has to be Zest on Habitation.
But the map. Float to gold is always possibility here with some crazy 1-1-1 from it or whatever. Throwing Zest on that is a bit of a risk for me. Throw Flash out onto that and a TvT is a TvT. I'd keep Zest for after this map.
Lifting to gold is bad, that's not a problem.
Q: Any last words?
Bbyong: Parting used to say that mech is not viable. And he also said that Gangnam-style Terran does not work against him. But turned out he was brutally beaten by my Gangnam-style Terran. This time, I will make him have even worse memory. If there is such chance, I will beat him with mech (smile).
Turned out he was brutally beaten by his own Artosis Pylon.
On July 28 2014 19:41 TheDwf wrote: It has to be Zest on Habitation.
But the map. Float to gold is always possibility here with some crazy 1-1-1 from it or whatever. Throwing Zest on that is a bit of a risk for me. Throw Flash out onto that and a TvT is a TvT. I'd keep Zest for after this map.
Lifting to gold is bad, that's not a problem.
Q: Any last words?
Bbyong: Parting used to say that mech is not viable. And he also said that Gangnam-style Terran [What is Gangnam-style Terran?] does not work against him. But turned out he was brutally beaten by my Gangnam-style Terran. This time, I will make him have even worse memory. If there is such chance, I will beat him with mech (smile).
It refers to gold float, since gangnam is a rich district.
3rd TvT of the day :D what a treat today is for TvT fans!
Maru sending out an SCV after dpot...what is he up too Flash goes SD into Gas then Rax for Flash Ooo proxy rax for Maru...vs God? Really. Oh my so bm! Gas for Maru Ooo techlab, old fashioned Firebear proxy ;o Conshell start too Factory instantly for Flash 1 marine is out reaper following Marus conshell completes Reaper kills SCV 2 con shell firebear snipe the reaper Flash in trouble Bunker going down SCV killed Hellion out 2 firebear doing big damage and micro due to conshell This old build is doing well all 3 Firebear are alive Maru sees the mine Flash placed burrow sacks 1 injured Firebear on it then kills it with a scan SCVs dieing for Flash as he tries to surround the firebears Flash sighs Maru micros God is in trouble Maru following up with factory hellion and starport at home Flash trying to squeeze units out Maru snipes a mine Helion and firebear enter the main of Flash This is brutal to watch, do not let your children watch this map
On July 28 2014 19:51 yoshi245 wrote: I knew AK format would be the bane of KT. But I was expecting sOs or TRUE to be crushing KT, not necessarily Maru.
KT have problems against terrans. No reliable T sniper. Zest crushes zergs and protoss but not terrans
On July 28 2014 19:51 BlackCompany wrote: Well Zest or Flash again as ace? Doesnt really matter i guess, none of both is gonna kill Maru/sOs/Maru or Maru/sOs/sOs
This is Proleague AK format. No lame ATC revive rules. It's surely Zest.
On July 28 2014 19:52 SoulCapsule wrote: Well, Flash with the "i'm not scouting and not giving a single fuck" while playing versus Maru on a 2 player map.
You're just asking for a proxy.
That's a bit harsh. He had his reaper out and obviously was going to scout.
On July 28 2014 19:51 BlackCompany wrote: Well Zest or Flash again as ace? Doesnt really matter i guess, none of both is gonna kill Maru/sOs/Maru or Maru/sOs/sOs
This is Proleague AK format. No lame ATC revive rules. It's surely Zest.
Ah sorry, im so stuck in ace revive because almost everyone uses it lol Well that basicly only leaves Zest unless Stats or Action turned Bonjwa since yesterday
On July 28 2014 19:53 Pandemona wrote: All kill could be upon us. TvP incoming on King Sejong Station. Maru vs Zest, what on earth will Birthday boy have in store for us this time?
proxy rax to the off-side of the base, float them into the main of Zest and make marines before the MSC comes out.
On July 28 2014 19:53 WGT-Baal wrote: A friend of mine showed me this strat like a month ago but I had never seen it before on stage, I m so impressed!
On July 28 2014 19:52 SoulCapsule wrote: Well, Flash with the "i'm not scouting and not giving a single fuck" while playing versus Maru on a 2 player map.
You're just asking for a proxy.
That's a bit harsh. He had his reaper out and obviously was going to scout.
It's pretty rare to scout before rax or anything.
Who would expect proxy rauders?
You're playing versus Maru. You have to expect a proxy everygame and play accordingly.
On July 28 2014 19:52 SoulCapsule wrote: Well, Flash with the "i'm not scouting and not giving a single fuck" while playing versus Maru on a 2 player map.
You're just asking for a proxy.
That's a bit harsh. He had his reaper out and obviously was going to scout.
It's pretty rare to scout before rax or anything.
Who would expect proxy rauders?
Maru did last game against Ty. Not sure if Ty did, but I think so. Especially if you want to do risky builds like gas first 1-1-1, you are just as much coinflipping as your opponent if you don't scout.
On July 28 2014 19:52 SoulCapsule wrote: Well, Flash with the "i'm not scouting and not giving a single fuck" while playing versus Maru on a 2 player map.
You're just asking for a proxy.
That's a bit harsh. He had his reaper out and obviously was going to scout.
It's pretty rare to scout before rax or anything.
Who would expect proxy rauders?
You do understand that he went gas first into rax into marine+factory into reaper. That's some of the latest scouting you can potentially have if you actually bother to scout before 1st move-out.
On July 28 2014 19:52 Ramiz1989 wrote: So people were hyping TvT, especially the one between Maru and Flash so much, just to see this? Ok...
It was ugly, but it was well earned. Maru controlled his units brilliantly at every stage of that push. Those WM baits, even attempting to get Flash's mine to go off on his own SCVs...
On July 28 2014 19:53 WGT-Baal wrote: A friend of mine showed me this strat like a month ago but I had never seen it before on stage, I m so impressed!
It was extremely common when SC2 proleague just began. But the strat got forgotten.
On July 28 2014 19:53 Pandemona wrote: All kill could be upon us. TvP incoming on King Sejong Station. Maru vs Zest, what on earth will Birthday boy have in store for us this time?
proxy rax to the off-side of the base, float them into the main of Zest and make marines before the MSC comes out.
Hahah, you say that and i actually remembering him doing that vs Dino Toss in SPL earlier this season on it haha. Damn i hope he does this now :D
On July 28 2014 19:52 SoulCapsule wrote: Well, Flash with the "i'm not scouting and not giving a single fuck" while playing versus Maru on a 2 player map.
You're just asking for a proxy.
That's a bit harsh. He had his reaper out and obviously was going to scout.
It's pretty rare to scout before rax or anything.
Who would expect proxy rauders?
You're playing versus Maru. You have to except a proxy everygame and play accordingly.
On July 28 2014 19:53 Pandemona wrote: All kill could be upon us. TvP incoming on King Sejong Station. Maru vs Zest, what on earth will Birthday boy have in store for us this time?
proxy rax to the off-side of the base, float them into the main of Zest and make marines before the MSC comes out.
On July 28 2014 19:52 SoulCapsule wrote: Well, Flash with the "i'm not scouting and not giving a single fuck" while playing versus Maru on a 2 player map.
You're just asking for a proxy.
That's a bit harsh. He had his reaper out and obviously was going to scout.
It's pretty rare to scout before rax or anything.
Who would expect proxy rauders?
You're playing versus Maru. You have to except a proxy everygame and play accordingly.
On July 28 2014 19:52 SoulCapsule wrote: Well, Flash with the "i'm not scouting and not giving a single fuck" while playing versus Maru on a 2 player map.
You're just asking for a proxy.
That's a bit harsh. He had his reaper out and obviously was going to scout.
It's pretty rare to scout before rax or anything.
Who would expect proxy rauders?
He went marine before reaper which is IMO just silly
By then Maru would either have a reaper out before flash with flash not having enough firepower to kill it or he would have enough marines to stop the reaper. Feels like it was planned to be a no scout and then flash changed his mind or smth, just odd
On July 28 2014 19:55 YyapSsap wrote: Flash doesn't know how to stop this build..
Just buy time til you get your bunker up near the ramp.... cuz the rauders will keep coming!!!
It's kinda hard to buy time to finish a bunker when units that are supposed to fill this bunker will probably die before it completes. If it completes ofc.
On July 28 2014 19:53 WGT-Baal wrote: A friend of mine showed me this strat like a month ago but I had never seen it before on stage, I m so impressed!
It was quite common in Wings of Liberty.
My favourite example is this game between jjakji and SuperNova, where both players when for the proxy marauder rush! Very entertaining game.
On July 28 2014 19:53 WGT-Baal wrote: A friend of mine showed me this strat like a month ago but I had never seen it before on stage, I m so impressed!
Its only 3 years old though
I remember having to face that thing in WoL beta when I was Protoss. That was before they made the depot a requirement for Rax. And when Marauders came with concussive shells built-in. So you would face something like proxy rax on 8 supply, it was so hard to hold xD
On July 28 2014 19:52 SoulCapsule wrote: Well, Flash with the "i'm not scouting and not giving a single fuck" while playing versus Maru on a 2 player map.
You're just asking for a proxy.
That's a bit harsh. He had his reaper out and obviously was going to scout.
It's pretty rare to scout before rax or anything.
Who would expect proxy rauders?
You're playing versus Maru. You have to except a proxy everygame and play accordingly.
In TvZ sure. Don't think anyone would in TvT.
Now they do
I guess quite often in Code A or RO32 you'll see Maru in his 'don't give a fuck' moods and he'll do this stuff all day. Still, didn't expect it in TvT too.
On July 28 2014 19:53 WGT-Baal wrote: A friend of mine showed me this strat like a month ago but I had never seen it before on stage, I m so impressed!
Its only 3 years old though
3 years old already? Wow, well granted I haven't seen a lot of TvT lately but still...first time seeing it live for me
On July 28 2014 19:53 WGT-Baal wrote: A friend of mine showed me this strat like a month ago but I had never seen it before on stage, I m so impressed!
It was quite common in Wings of Liberty.
My favourite example is this game between jjakji and SuperNova, where both players when for the proxy marauder rush! Very entertaining game.
On July 28 2014 19:53 WGT-Baal wrote: A friend of mine showed me this strat like a month ago but I had never seen it before on stage, I m so impressed!
It was quite common in Wings of Liberty.
My favourite example is this game between jjakji and SuperNova, where both players when for the proxy marauder rush! Very entertaining game.
On July 28 2014 19:53 WGT-Baal wrote: A friend of mine showed me this strat like a month ago but I had never seen it before on stage, I m so impressed!
Its only 3 years old though
3 years old already? Wow, well granted I haven't seen a lot of TvT lately but still...first time seeing it live for me
On July 28 2014 19:52 SoulCapsule wrote: Well, Flash with the "i'm not scouting and not giving a single fuck" while playing versus Maru on a 2 player map.
You're just asking for a proxy.
That's a bit harsh. He had his reaper out and obviously was going to scout.
It's pretty rare to scout before rax or anything.
Who would expect proxy rauders?
He went marine before reaper which is IMO just silly
By then Maru would either have a reaper out before flash with flash not having enough firepower to kill it or he would have enough marines to stop the reaper. Feels like it was planned to be a no scout and then flash changed his mind or smth, just odd
No, that's the build. The Reaper is precisely here in time to welcome the other Reaper (see here for example).
On July 28 2014 19:53 WGT-Baal wrote: A friend of mine showed me this strat like a month ago but I had never seen it before on stage, I m so impressed!
It was quite common in Wings of Liberty.
My favourite example is this game between jjakji and SuperNova, where both players when for the proxy marauder rush! Very entertaining game.
On July 28 2014 19:53 WGT-Baal wrote: A friend of mine showed me this strat like a month ago but I had never seen it before on stage, I m so impressed!
It was quite common in Wings of Liberty.
My favourite example is this game between jjakji and SuperNova, where both players when for the proxy marauder rush! Very entertaining game.
On July 28 2014 19:52 Ramiz1989 wrote: So people were hyping TvT, especially the one between Maru and Flash so much, just to see this? Ok...
It was ugly, but it was well earned. Maru controlled his units brilliantly at every stage of that push. Those WM baits, even attempting to get Flash's mine to go off on his own SCVs...
On July 28 2014 19:52 SoulCapsule wrote: Well, Flash with the "i'm not scouting and not giving a single fuck" while playing versus Maru on a 2 player map.
You're just asking for a proxy.
That's a bit harsh. He had his reaper out and obviously was going to scout.
It's pretty rare to scout before rax or anything.
Who would expect proxy rauders?
He went marine before reaper which is IMO just silly
By then Maru would either have a reaper out before flash with flash not having enough firepower to kill it or he would have enough marines to stop the reaper. Feels like it was planned to be a no scout and then flash changed his mind or smth, just odd
No, that's the build. The Reaper is precisely here in time to welcome the other Reaper (see here for example).
On July 28 2014 19:53 WGT-Baal wrote: A friend of mine showed me this strat like a month ago but I had never seen it before on stage, I m so impressed!
It was quite common in Wings of Liberty.
My favourite example is this game between jjakji and SuperNova, where both players when for the proxy marauder rush! Very entertaining game.
wasn't there an innovation vs Flash in SPL 2013 where Flash goes proxy marauder and Innovation goes 11//11 rax, and innovation wins because he can shoot up the air?
On July 28 2014 19:55 YyapSsap wrote: Flash doesn't know how to stop this build..
Just buy time til you get your bunker up near the ramp.... cuz the rauders will keep coming!!!
It's kinda hard to buy time to finish a bunker when units that are supposed to fill this bunker will probably die before it completes. If it completes ofc.
No thats what the mass scv pull is for. He had HEAPS of time when the rauders had to run back down the ramp and to the mineral line to not get surrounded.
yeah MKP played a lot of marauder rushes back in the days, i personally think it is way to easy to scout unless you are mr. greed flash himself, maru played the player and executed it well
Also there was a funny series of MKP vs Polt where all they did was proxy esch other to hide stratsand the games went crazy :D It was casted by khaldor I think
On July 28 2014 19:53 WGT-Baal wrote: A friend of mine showed me this strat like a month ago but I had never seen it before on stage, I m so impressed!
It was quite common in Wings of Liberty.
My favourite example is this game between jjakji and SuperNova, where both players when for the proxy marauder rush! Very entertaining game.
On July 28 2014 20:07 Pandemona wrote: Killing a protoss for an All kill must feel amazing, please do it so you can celebrate your birthday in super quick time Maru :D
And not just any Protoss, but Zest out of all Protoss players.
On July 28 2014 20:14 Faust852 wrote: When I do this fast 3rax concussive, I never dare sacrificing my army for probe. Will see if Maru's gamble was worth it.
I don't think it was. Zest is on one gate, rushing tech super hard. Now Maru will have a weakened army to pressure him for it
On July 28 2014 20:14 Faust852 wrote: When I do this fast 3rax concussive, I never dare sacrificing my army for probe. Will see if Maru's gamble was worth it.
With standard builds I don't think Protoss can do anything to you if you do this.
On July 28 2014 20:14 Faust852 wrote: When I do this fast 3rax concussive, I never dare sacrificing my army for probe. Will see if Maru's gamble was worth it.
With standard builds I don't think Protoss can do anything to you if you do this.
You still lose 15 supplys that could save you if he decides to allin you on 2 bases afteward.
also interesting to note that Maru started double widow mine production instead of going for fast 4th and 5th Rax. That seems like an adjustment to the new patch to me. I wonder if this will become the new meta, to get maybe 4-10 widow mines depending on the opponents build and then get a Starport on that Reactor for 4 vikings at a time
Edit: or if you are Maru, you just don't build Vikings and keep building Mines for 5 more minutes
I really hope he prevents the all kill despite my earlier comment on prematurely congratulating Maru. Now Zest has a hard road of dealing with TRUE and sOs.
[edit] was typing this while Zest was attacking the planetary and eventually won it. Yay Zest won.
TvP to finish off, Zest of course the ace for KT and they are in need of his A game for sure! Maru....he smells an all kill! Birthday style
Rax for Maru (13) Gate for Zest (14) Gas for Zest Gas for Maru Ebay block on natural Zealot and Cyber for Zest 2nd Gas and MSC start CC for Maru 2 more rax for Maru Nexus down for Zest as Stalker finishes Warp gate starts for Zest Bunker and gas for Maru MSC tries to scout for Zest but gets turned away instantly by marines Robo for Zest Ebay for Maru Con shells for his firebears also Stim and +1 weapons for Maru Mini push begins walking to the natural of Zest Photon overcharge used 7 Probes were killed, but 3/4 of Maru army was too Forge and colli tech complete along with Twilight Council Starport and missile turret for Maru +1 armor for Zest 1st colli inc Blink starts for Zest and colli range Combat shield starts for Maru 4 more gates for Zest 2 more rax for Maru +1 armor finishes for Maru as Mine production strts!!! MMMM vs Colli and Blink Maru begins sending out drop ships as his 1-1 finishes, he begins 3rd CC adn Armory Charge and 3rd nexus for Zest Along with immortals now Maru tries to cancel the 3rd Nexus as blink picks off the double drop in the main oh my 2 out of 3 colli sniped at the 3rd of Zest +2 weapons for Maru as 1-1 finishes for Zest charge finishes as Templar Archieves starts Macro wars atm, but Zest has a 7 worker lead Maru hitting the rocks at the natural of Zest, buries 2 maines too Baiting Zest out but he isn't falling for it 2 huge mine shots damage toss heavily Photon overcharge on the natural nexus, Zest pinned in atm Storm and +2 armor on its way for him 2 vikings for Maru and Bio production 2nd Starport start for him double drop speed boosting around 2 scans wasted trying to pick off an observer STORM COMPLETES STORMS ON MARU ARMY Maru backs off 2nd Forge starts for Zest +2 finishes for Maru spped boosting into the main DOOM DROP Coli sniped Stalkers run away Speed boosted way with 3 firebear Maru needs keep on top of his upgrades here though Just pumping out vikings and bio atm There is only 1 colli though +2 armor starts for Maru as +2 armor finishes for Zest +2 Weapons start for Zest 2 huge storms on Marus push into the 3rd Maru not handeling this very well atm Maru takes a mini supply lead after back and forth army action very even game though 3 Colli and 7 vikings atm Drop at the 3rd is speed boosted into the main Engage in the middle of the map Storms going down Maru stiming away trying to micro Oh my Nexus snipe in the main from Maru! 4th Neus down for Zest though 4th CC up for Maru (planetry) Zest trying to push this planetry Storms down on maru bio 4th down Maru army is just stormed Good engage from Zest Maru GGs Zest stops the all kill, just like that
That last engagement... Holding position under storm. The entire bioball ate the entire 2-3 storms. Also Zest's timing was real good. He attacked right before ghosts arrived for maru.
On July 28 2014 20:18 theBALLS wrote: May Maru be a beacon of hope to all the whiny terrans. This is how you play terran
What if he loses this game -which he probably will ?
whatever in this game at this moment indicates that he'll lose?
HT, soon 3/2 and colo x2 is kinda helping when you don't produce viking nor ghost
maru is producing both?
Guess I can't read the game. O Wait.
Maru always delays Vikings and HTs for really long and only builds them as a kind of last-resort when he can't kill his opponent with his aggressive bio-style. Which is fine, because there are maybe 3 or 4 Protoss total in the world that have chances of surviving the bio-onslaught at all.
You can even feel zest is alot slower in terms of multitasking lol floating too many minerals, reacting too slow, warping in units that just stand there.. meanwhile maru is everywhere!
On July 28 2014 20:25 deacon.frost wrote: Can tell me some1 where was maru supposed t osplit against those storms? It would be really nice to know this. Wolf himself would be appreciated
Also, to low mine numbers, lost inevitable.
I think in that position and knowing Zest is going to commit, maybe pick-up and drop on the side to flank the army
On July 28 2014 20:25 Mafab wrote: How did that even happen? I see Maru up by 30 army supply, alt tab for ~5 mins and then he loses.
Maru was forced to kite/retreat to his planetary at his 4th base after being chased down by Zest's army. He had his army at hold position so they ate storms while the planetary was being attacked by the army. He basically was backed into a corner and died.
On July 28 2014 20:25 Thombur wrote: I never understand why terrans always let protoss' high templar go uncontested for so long before making ghosts.
Eh terrans really rarely do that. You only see Polt and Maru do this and it creates much more entertaining games. Most terran just goes for quick Ghosts with scv pulls since late game is unplayable.
Maru transitioned late to Ghost. and gave too much to deny "nothing" he didnt really focus on harass he focused on getting good trades, and just got one at the start.With that beeing said, impressive multiattacks
On July 28 2014 20:18 theBALLS wrote: May Maru be a beacon of hope to all the whiny terrans. This is how you play terran
What if he loses this game -which he probably will ?
whatever in this game at this moment indicates that he'll lose?
HT, soon 3/2 and colo x2 is kinda helping when you don't produce viking nor ghost
maru is producing both?
Guess I can't read the game. O Wait.
Maru always delays Vikings and HTs for really long and only builds them as a kind of last-resort when he can't kill his opponent with his aggressive bio-style. Which is fine, because there are maybe 3 or 4 Protoss total in the world that have chances of surviving the bio-onslaught at all.
And where was I wrong ? I predicted Maru would lose the game after not building a viking when there were 3 colo on the field. I know how Maru plays and that's why I knew he would lose after Zest secured his 3rd and Maru not being able to do enough damage.
On July 28 2014 20:25 Thombur wrote: I never understand why terrans always let protoss' high templar go uncontested for so long before making ghosts.
That's what Maru does. He will stay on mass medivac/MMM longer than anyone else. Then he uses his superb micro/multitasking/positioning to bash his head into protoss until one of them dies.
On July 28 2014 20:25 Mafab wrote: How did that even happen? I see Maru up by 30 army supply, alt tab for ~5 mins and then he loses.
He plays a hyper aggressive style that will eventually either kill the protoss or run out of steam and fail because he has so late ghosts or vikings. The latter happened. If the protoss defends long enough, he has quite an advantage
On July 28 2014 20:25 Mafab wrote: How did that even happen? I see Maru up by 30 army supply, alt tab for ~5 mins and then he loses.
protoss'd but that was a good game nonetheless. you can't make mistake as a terran in tvp. Only mistake Maru did was his position during the last engagment. But then again, what kind of position can you get when trying to defend this fourth at this place? It's so tiny...
On July 28 2014 20:27 BlackCompany wrote: Best game of the series so far, lets see if Zest vs sOs gonna deliver again (unless TRUE has the best game of the night second night in a row)
On July 28 2014 20:25 Mafab wrote: How did that even happen? I see Maru up by 30 army supply, alt tab for ~5 mins and then he loses.
Maru was forced to kite/retreat to his planetary at his 4th base after being chased down by Zest's army. He had his army at hold position so they ate storms while the planetary was being attacked by the army. He basically was backed into a corner and died.
His mistake was trying to take an engagement there at the 4th without the right unit composition and then he got forced into that position which he really couldn't win.
The weakness with Maru's style is that Vikings really arne't very good in those situations where you have 5-6 of them while contantly try to army trade. Vikings functions much better when you wait untill you have critical mass before army trading.
On July 28 2014 20:25 deacon.frost wrote: Can tell me some1 where was maru supposed t osplit against those storms? It would be really nice to know this. Wolf himself would be appreciated
I saw two main problems in TvP right now: 1) Blink is too strong vs vikings 2) too many small places at bases (like that maru's 4th base) -> storms are so strong in that case.
On July 28 2014 20:26 TurboMaN wrote: Protoss won although he gifted so many colossi during the game. Still hardest mu for Terrans by far.
Yeah, Zest lost 2Colossi and 3zealots, while killing nearly all of the army that killed the Colossi and killing to full medivacs without losses in his main base... That was a very good trade for Zest.
Only time Maru got some worthwhile damage in was when he killed the main nexus and the robo. Meanwhile he was behind in upgrades and tech (ghost/vikings) all game long and at some points didn't even have any supply advantage, which is not a good indicator for T vs Protoss.
On July 28 2014 20:28 Dingodile wrote: I saw two main problems in TvP right now: 1) Blink is too strong vs vikings 2) too many small places at bases (like that maru's 4th base) -> storms are so strong in that case.
What on earth.
Maru lost most of his vikings to storm, not blink stalkers.
On July 28 2014 20:25 Mafab wrote: How did that even happen? I see Maru up by 30 army supply, alt tab for ~5 mins and then he loses.
Maru was forced to kite/retreat to his planetary at his 4th base after being chased down by Zest's army. He had his army at hold position so they ate storms while the planetary was being attacked by the army. He basically was backed into a corner and died.
His mistake was trying to take an engagement there at the 4th without the right unit composition and then he got forced into that position which he really couldn't win.
He should have formed a concave at the ramp imo, force out 2-3 storms and retreat to the PF. Then Zest will be running low on Templar energy. Though I think he just didn't have enough anymore to really make that concave happen to begin with... Tough spot when you are running low on army.
On July 28 2014 20:29 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Maru expand more btw?
He is such an aggressive player, the protoss would never have a chance to counterattack the early fourth
He can do this type of aggression because he invests alot into army. He If he took like a 14th minute 4th he wouldn't be able too put on the same level of aggression.
I don't understand the whine here Zest is playing very well to counter maru and we see that mines are really effective now against protoss army making colossus essential to defend. Pretty sure most of protoss would long die to maru's bio-attack
On July 28 2014 20:29 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Maru expand more btw?
He is such an aggressive player, the protoss would never have a chance to counterattack the early fourth
I think Maru even cuts SCvs to make this aggressive moves, which means he hasnt really any spare minerals to expand. When he cuts units for a CC he misses almost a medivac of units and has much less units to be aggressive with
On July 28 2014 20:24 lolfail9001 wrote: I almost want to whine, but well, Maru did a slip-up/
Sorry, one slip up and you are dead.
That goes for both players...
Well minus multiple colossus snipe, Nexus snipe, late 3rd, fighting up a ramp against a planetary. Other than that, sure
Well in fairness, Maru also gifted 2 full drop ships whilst he was sniping those collossus and for whatever reason didn't really control his units at that planetary fight...
Also to mention maru split up his vikings when he was very aggressive in mid game, where he split up 3-4 vikings for each attack (he had 3 army I think, 2 army had around 4 vikings each and there was one with 10), and those vikings got sniped but didn't get any colossus kills. The army with 10+ vikings didn't face any colossus, only storms. It was really good response from zest's part too.
On July 28 2014 20:29 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Maru expand more btw?
He is such an aggressive player, the protoss would never have a chance to counterattack the early fourth
Terran can't hold multiple bases because they have no static defense or local unit production (ie zerg has larva at every hatch, protoss have warp ins)
On July 28 2014 20:29 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Maru expand more btw?
He is such an aggressive player, the protoss would never have a chance to counterattack the early fourth
I've thought about it too. Probably because he's semi-all in the entire game, having to do enough damage to justify his extremely late transition to ghost/viking. So he probably feels that his pressure is weakened by putting money towards more bases
On July 28 2014 20:29 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Maru expand more btw?
He is such an aggressive player, the protoss would never have a chance to counterattack the early fourth
I think Maru even cuts SCvs to make this aggressive moves, which means he hasnt really any spare minerals to expand. When he cuts units for a CC he misses almost a medivac of units and has much less units to be aggressive with
Yeah, Maru planned to finish the game right there. I don't think he plan to go over 3 CCs.
On July 28 2014 20:25 Mafab wrote: How did that even happen? I see Maru up by 30 army supply, alt tab for ~5 mins and then he loses.
Maru was forced to kite/retreat to his planetary at his 4th base after being chased down by Zest's army. He had his army at hold position so they ate storms while the planetary was being attacked by the army. He basically was backed into a corner and died.
His mistake was trying to take an engagement there at the 4th without the right unit composition and then he got forced into that position which he really couldn't win.
He should have formed a concave at the ramp imo, force out 2-3 storms and retreat to the PF. Then Zest will be running low on Templar energy. Though I think he just didn't have enough anymore to really make that concave happen to begin with... Tough spot when you are running low on army.
But I think Zest didn't have to commit to storm his army there since his army was so much stronger. He could have engaged up the ramp quite easily with 1-2 storms and Maru wouldn't be able to get a good engagement there (just wasing a stim there wouldn't be ideal either).
Instead, I believe Maru was forced to rely on the planetary for backup defense. It would have been a different story had he not taken the fight at Zest's 4th.
On July 28 2014 20:28 Dingodile wrote: I saw two main problems in TvP right now: 1) Blink is too strong vs vikings 2) too many small places at bases (like that maru's 4th base) -> storms are so strong in that case.
What on earth.
Maru lost most of his vikings to storm, not blink stalkers.
On July 28 2014 20:30 Yiome wrote: I don't understand the whine here Zest is playing very well to counter maru and we see that mines are really effective now against protoss army making colossus essential to defend. Pretty sure most of protoss would long die to maru's bio-attack
I think the casters over hyped marus play/position, zest was keeping up.
On July 28 2014 20:29 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Maru expand more btw?
He is such an aggressive player, the protoss would never have a chance to counterattack the early fourth
I think Maru even cuts SCvs to make this aggressive moves, which means he hasnt really any spare minerals to expand. When he cuts units for a CC he misses almost a medivac of units and has much less units to be aggressive with
Yeah, Maru planned to finish the game right there. I don't think he plan to go over 3 CCs.
I would do that too if i could play like that tbh :p IF you are that good you can expect to win even vs the best, Zest had really strong defense and still almost died
On July 28 2014 20:29 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Maru expand more btw?
He is such an aggressive player, the protoss would never have a chance to counterattack the early fourth
You don't benefit from an early fourth until your main is nearly exhausted.
Oh terrans have full production on three mining bases? :o No wonder they always stay on three bases
In SC2 you take 4th and beyond for gas. If you don't need the gas, then you can expand once you are out of minerals in your main Somewhere here is the science behind this, soft mining cap on 3 bases.
On July 28 2014 20:29 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Maru expand more btw?
He is such an aggressive player, the protoss would never have a chance to counterattack the early fourth
Terran can't hold multiple bases because they have no static defense or local unit production (ie zerg has larva at every hatch, protoss have warp ins)
On July 28 2014 20:25 Mafab wrote: How did that even happen? I see Maru up by 30 army supply, alt tab for ~5 mins and then he loses.
Maru was forced to kite/retreat to his planetary at his 4th base after being chased down by Zest's army. He had his army at hold position so they ate storms while the planetary was being attacked by the army. He basically was backed into a corner and died.
His mistake was trying to take an engagement there at the 4th without the right unit composition and then he got forced into that position which he really couldn't win.
He should have formed a concave at the ramp imo, force out 2-3 storms and retreat to the PF. Then Zest will be running low on Templar energy. Though I think he just didn't have enough anymore to really make that concave happen to begin with... Tough spot when you are running low on army.
But I think Zest didn't have to storm his army there since his army was so much stronger. Maru was kinda forced to rely on the planetary for backup defense. It would have been a different story had he not taken the fight at Zest's 4th.
yup, that's what I meant. He probably didn't have the army to form a strong concave that can force the storms out of Zest.
On July 28 2014 20:30 Yiome wrote: I don't understand the whine here Zest is playing very well to counter maru and we see that mines are really effective now against protoss army making colossus essential to defend. Pretty sure most of protoss would long die to maru's bio-attack
I think the casters over hyped marus play/position, zest was keeping up.
it always feel like that. Casters hype terrans moves because they are showy. A protoss just sits and defend, it's the terran making move and trying to make things happen in TvP.
On July 28 2014 20:28 Dingodile wrote: I saw two main problems in TvP right now: 1) Blink is too strong vs vikings 2) too many small places at bases (like that maru's 4th base) -> storms are so strong in that case.
The best buff they could give to bio-terran late game TvP would be to make Vikings more responsive so they could move out of Storms faster or reposition against blinked stalkers faster as well. Would make them much more rewarding to micro and more fun to control as well.
wow, the balls on rogue here. I still do the cannon rush that classic did vs RorO on this map and it works really well, so i'd be so scared to 3 hatch as rogue
On July 28 2014 20:29 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Maru expand more btw?
He is such an aggressive player, the protoss would never have a chance to counterattack the early fourth
Terran can't hold multiple bases because they have no static defense or local unit production (ie zerg has larva at every hatch, protoss have warp ins)
On July 28 2014 20:25 Mafab wrote: How did that even happen? I see Maru up by 30 army supply, alt tab for ~5 mins and then he loses.
Maru was forced to kite/retreat to his planetary at his 4th base after being chased down by Zest's army. He had his army at hold position so they ate storms while the planetary was being attacked by the army. He basically was backed into a corner and died.
His mistake was trying to take an engagement there at the 4th without the right unit composition and then he got forced into that position which he really couldn't win.
He should have formed a concave at the ramp imo, force out 2-3 storms and retreat to the PF. Then Zest will be running low on Templar energy. Though I think he just didn't have enough anymore to really make that concave happen to begin with... Tough spot when you are running low on army.
But I think Zest didn't have to storm his army there since his army was so much stronger. Maru was kinda forced to rely on the planetary for backup defense. It would have been a different story had he not taken the fight at Zest's 4th.
yup, that's what I meant. He probably didn't have the army to form a strong concave that can force the storms out of Zest.
Yeh he also got caught in the Ghost-transition as well which reduced his army count a bit. WIth this style you just gotta have 20-30 supply+ advantage all game long.
On July 28 2014 20:32 DarkLordOlli wrote: Am I the only protoss who likes playing cross positions vs zerg?
Why do you like it? (Just curious I like to learn abou other mu)
You can safely keep 4 bases, where horizontal/vertical spawns threatens your 4th. Also long travel distance + recall + possible air opening into airtoss is possible, problems with scouting for zerg. It's imba, I so much love cross positions on frost
On July 28 2014 20:32 DarkLordOlli wrote: Am I the only protoss who likes playing cross positions vs zerg?
Why do you like it? (Just curious I like to learn abou other mu)
Zerg nowadays relies a lot on midgame pressure -> transition to force the protoss towards a certain tech and take advantage. On big maps in cross positions, I have more time to prepare for their pressure and more time to prepare for what's next. Besides, if you want to pressure zerg, you do it with warpgate. Plus I feel like the lategame favors protoss on big maps. Cross positions makes it easier for me to get there.
On July 28 2014 20:28 Dingodile wrote: I saw two main problems in TvP right now: 1) Blink is too strong vs vikings 2) too many small places at bases (like that maru's 4th base) -> storms are so strong in that case.
The best buff they could give to bio-terran late game TvP would be to make Vikings more responsive so they could move out of Storms faster or reposition against blinked stalkers faster as well. Would make them much more rewarding to micro and more fun to control as well.
I want this so much for protoss air! At least mothership!
On July 28 2014 20:29 sharkie wrote: Why doesn't Maru expand more btw?
He is such an aggressive player, the protoss would never have a chance to counterattack the early fourth
Terran can't hold multiple bases because they have no static defense or local unit production (ie zerg has larva at every hatch, protoss have warp ins)
There is something called planetary fortress...
That planetary was so useful in a fight wasnt it?
how come i keep coming into these threads and everytime i see whine, your name seems to be involved. Can't we just all love each other <3 (expect for MVP Sniper, because he's terrible)
On July 28 2014 20:24 shadymmj wrote: zest is good, quite a bit better than maru...mechanically his equal and decision wise superior.
Floating 1.3k mineral after 10 zealots warp-in and 2 colos...
so that's a minor error right there by a gsl champ...while also keeping in mind he was spending all his gas. meanwhile it's hard to see if terran is over-queuing units. but what i meant was that he defended all those multiprong attacks and drops taking minimal losses, stabilised, did not overextend, hit a tech advantage and good viking/medivac snipes.
a great timing on the fourth and storm placement to force either a) a fight there or b) losing the planetary and scvs. contrary to what people believe not many P players can beat maru comprehensively like that.
On July 28 2014 20:34 BlackCompany wrote: Damn you zerg for going 3 hatch before pool, i'm still trying to make 3CC before rax viable as terran
I actually do that sometimes vs a friend of mine.
Haha, well my results on the ladder are not really good enough that it is worth trying, Protoss really loves DTs and oracles. And SCVs cant shoot up or detect invisible stuff :p
On July 28 2014 20:34 BlackCompany wrote: Damn you zerg for going 3 hatch before pool, i'm still trying to make 3CC before rax viable as terran
I actually do that sometimes vs a friend of mine.
I actually did that once. I went CC first and knew he would go 3 hatch before pool since he scouted early, decide to hide a 3rd cc, went smootly with 7 rax afterward :D
On July 28 2014 20:32 DarkLordOlli wrote: Am I the only protoss who likes playing cross positions vs zerg?
Why do you like it? (Just curious I like to learn abou other mu)
Zerg nowadays relies a lot on midgame pressure -> transition to force the protoss towards a certain tech and take advantage. On big maps in cross positions, I have more time to prepare for their pressure and more time to prepare for what's next. Besides, if you want to pressure zerg, you do it with warpgate. Plus I feel like the lategame favores protoss on big maps. Cross positions makes it easier for me to get there.
On July 28 2014 20:32 DarkLordOlli wrote: Am I the only protoss who likes playing cross positions vs zerg?
Why do you like it? (Just curious I like to learn abou other mu)
Zerg nowadays relies a lot on midgame pressure -> transition to force the protoss towards a certain tech and take advantage. On big maps in cross positions, I have more time to prepare for their pressure and more time to prepare for what's next. Besides, if you want to pressure zerg, you do it with warpgate. Plus I feel like the lategame favores protoss on big maps. Cross positions makes it easier for me to get there.
Ah thx!
So, Olli, may I ask what kind of Zerg play you absolutely hate being up against on cross pos like this?
Best strat I ever did was prob where my friend loved to proxy hatch my nat catz style. So I defended at home and built a cc at his nat and turned into a pf. Was a fun game
On July 28 2014 20:34 BlackCompany wrote: Damn you zerg for going 3 hatch before pool, i'm still trying to make 3CC before rax viable as terran
I actually do that sometimes vs a friend of mine.
Haha, well my results on the ladder are not really good enough that it is worth trying, Protoss really loves DTs and oracles. And SCVs cant shoot up or detect invisible stuff :p
Though i actually won vs a Z sometimes
it's not even worth it against Zerg I think because you delay Mules and tech too much. I think CC first, then one rax and then third CC would be better
On July 28 2014 20:34 BlackCompany wrote: Damn you zerg for going 3 hatch before pool, i'm still trying to make 3CC before rax viable as terran
I actually do that sometimes vs a friend of mine.
Haha, well my results on the ladder are not really good enough that it is worth trying, Protoss really loves DTs and oracles. And SCVs cant shoot up or detect invisible stuff :p
Though i actually won vs a Z sometimes
it's not even worth it against Zerg I think because you delay Mules and tech too much. I think CC first, then one rax and then third CC would be better
Well last time i laddered i was somewhere between Plat and Diamond, so whats best is actually not my biggest concern I like doing crazy stuff, plus if that 3rd CC is hidden... well not many people are good at scouting xD
On July 28 2014 20:34 BlackCompany wrote: Damn you zerg for going 3 hatch before pool, i'm still trying to make 3CC before rax viable as terran
I actually do that sometimes vs a friend of mine.
Haha, well my results on the ladder are not really good enough that it is worth trying, Protoss really loves DTs and oracles. And SCVs cant shoot up or detect invisible stuff :p
Though i actually won vs a Z sometimes
it's not even worth it against Zerg I think because you delay Mules and tech too much. I think CC first, then one rax and then third CC would be better
I use it as a troll strat mostly. The 3rd cc is hidden aswell so if the opponent doesnt pay attention it kinda looks like a standard cc first haha
On July 28 2014 20:34 BlackCompany wrote: Damn you zerg for going 3 hatch before pool, i'm still trying to make 3CC before rax viable as terran
I actually do that sometimes vs a friend of mine.
Haha, well my results on the ladder are not really good enough that it is worth trying, Protoss really loves DTs and oracles. And SCVs cant shoot up or detect invisible stuff :p
Though i actually won vs a Z sometimes
it's not even worth it against Zerg I think because you delay Mules and tech too much. I think CC first, then one rax and then third CC would be better
Well last time i laddered i was somewhere between Plat and Diamond, so whats best is actually not my biggest concern I like doing crazy stuff, plus if that 3rd CC is hidden... well not many people are good at scouting xD
ah cool. It's nice to know that some people are still there that don't take a super serious approach to laddering. I noticed that SC2 has made me somewhat of a try-hard
Wtf, another amazing fight. This is gg, only roach on the remax. Just a matter of time at this point haha. Amazing game by Zest. You can learn a lot if you watch this slowly, right down to his 3rdbase simcity which was also very well placed.
edit: or he can do that????????? looooooooolll.......
He wins the fight, and then sends his entire army back to kill two stalkers rather than just kill the fourth and let the reinforcements deal with the stalkers.
Edit: as much as we talk about how much better the Kespa scene is than anyone else, this was a pretty mediocre game from both players.
On July 28 2014 20:45 -Kyo- wrote: Wtf, another amazing fight. This is gg, only roach on the remax. Just a matter of time at this point haha. Amazing game by Zest. You can learn a lot if you watch this slowly, right down to his 3rdbase simcity which was also very well placed.
On July 28 2014 20:45 -Kyo- wrote: Wtf, another amazing fight. This is gg, only roach on the remax. Just a matter of time at this point haha. Amazing game by Zest. You can learn a lot if you watch this slowly, right down to his 3rdbase simcity which was also very well placed.
15H for Rogue 15N for Zest 3H before pool for Rogue Gate and Gas for Zest Game of drones currently being played by Rogue SP down on 18 Gas follows Cyber for Zest Stargate for Zest Queens and lings for Rogue Speed starts for Rogue Phoenix production from Zest Robo and forge for Zest bit of a lul as Phoenix harass begins Lair completes 4 more gas start Hydra den down 13 more drones +1 Weapons for Zest along with colli tech Drones being picked up by Phoenix 3rd base for Zest Scouted instantly by lings +1 Ranged Attack and hydra range being researched Twilight council for Zest 13 drones died to Phoenix so far Infestation pit down 4th Hatch down Hive starts for Rogue Spire and Roach warren also Void blink and +2 weapons for Zest These Phoenix killed 17 drones now lol Roach and Hydra speed finish the same time +3 Weapons starts for Zest as +2 ranged for Rogue starts Rogue looking like he wants to push out not much of an army though Photon over charge immediately by Zest Ok this push from Rogue was really silly Shut down so hard by Zest Corrupters all died apart from 2 Roach and Hydra just evaporated Warp prism out too helping Zest out with forward warp ins as he begins to hunt down Rogue Rogue has re maxed now but he will need to replnish that lava wasted quickly Zest taking a 4th as +3 completes Another engage off creep! Much better this time from Rogue but he gets picked apart so easily 32 more roaches incoming Stalker army really for Zest with 1 colli Vipers out for Rogue but only 1 colli left Stalker and immortal production for Zest +3 ranged for Rogue starts as +1 armor begins for Zest 3-0 vs 2-0 atm (P - Z) Vipers pull in 2 colli and blinding cloud goes down which helps out too Alot more in favored of Rogue that fight was and he finally clears it up HOWEVER stalker harass on his 4th killed a few drones around 10 But that was all of Zests army that died pretty comfortably in the middle of the map he is down 40 supply Rogue is going to try and kill him at his 4th now Nice feedbacks from the templar but he hasn't enough ground army Warp ins from Zest for the final time Roach hydra crushing him Rogues queen injects were spot on this game, the lava he had wa crazy That is the reason he wins GG is called JIN AIR 4-2 KT ROLSTER
On July 28 2014 20:34 BlackCompany wrote: Damn you zerg for going 3 hatch before pool, i'm still trying to make 3CC before rax viable as terran
I actually do that sometimes vs a friend of mine.
Haha, well my results on the ladder are not really good enough that it is worth trying, Protoss really loves DTs and oracles. And SCVs cant shoot up or detect invisible stuff :p
Though i actually won vs a Z sometimes
it's not even worth it against Zerg I think because you delay Mules and tech too much. I think CC first, then one rax and then third CC would be better
Well last time i laddered i was somewhere between Plat and Diamond, so whats best is actually not my biggest concern I like doing crazy stuff, plus if that 3rd CC is hidden... well not many people are good at scouting xD
ah cool. It's nice to know that some people are still there that don't take a super serious approach to laddering. I noticed that SC2 has made me somewhat of a try-hard
Even in master you just gotta bust out the speshul taktiks. So much fun
On July 28 2014 20:34 BlackCompany wrote: Damn you zerg for going 3 hatch before pool, i'm still trying to make 3CC before rax viable as terran
I actually do that sometimes vs a friend of mine.
Haha, well my results on the ladder are not really good enough that it is worth trying, Protoss really loves DTs and oracles. And SCVs cant shoot up or detect invisible stuff :p
Though i actually won vs a Z sometimes
it's not even worth it against Zerg I think because you delay Mules and tech too much. I think CC first, then one rax and then third CC would be better
Well last time i laddered i was somewhere between Plat and Diamond, so whats best is actually not my biggest concern I like doing crazy stuff, plus if that 3rd CC is hidden... well not many people are good at scouting xD
ah cool. It's nice to know that some people are still there that don't take a super serious approach to laddering. I noticed that SC2 has made me somewhat of a try-hard
I dont really ladder a lot tbh, so when i do i just mess a little bit arround. Not really crazy stuff like 1 base BCcccccccc, but i'm not trying to do super refined builds.
I still play marine/tank TvZ most of the time just because tanks are awesome TT
On July 28 2014 20:34 BlackCompany wrote: Damn you zerg for going 3 hatch before pool, i'm still trying to make 3CC before rax viable as terran
I actually do that sometimes vs a friend of mine.
Haha, well my results on the ladder are not really good enough that it is worth trying, Protoss really loves DTs and oracles. And SCVs cant shoot up or detect invisible stuff :p
Though i actually won vs a Z sometimes
it's not even worth it against Zerg I think because you delay Mules and tech too much. I think CC first, then one rax and then third CC would be better
Well last time i laddered i was somewhere between Plat and Diamond, so whats best is actually not my biggest concern I like doing crazy stuff, plus if that 3rd CC is hidden... well not many people are good at scouting xD
ah cool. It's nice to know that some people are still there that don't take a super serious approach to laddering. I noticed that SC2 has made me somewhat of a try-hard
I dont really ladder a lot tbh, so when i do i just mess a little bit arround. Not really crazy stuff like 1 base BCcccccccc, but i'm not trying to do super refined builds.
I still play marine/tank TvZ most of the time just because tanks are awesome TT
pro strat: lift into the inbase natural on nimbus and confuse your oponent a good follow up is two port banshee
On July 28 2014 20:34 BlackCompany wrote: Damn you zerg for going 3 hatch before pool, i'm still trying to make 3CC before rax viable as terran
I actually do that sometimes vs a friend of mine.
Haha, well my results on the ladder are not really good enough that it is worth trying, Protoss really loves DTs and oracles. And SCVs cant shoot up or detect invisible stuff :p
Though i actually won vs a Z sometimes
it's not even worth it against Zerg I think because you delay Mules and tech too much. I think CC first, then one rax and then third CC would be better
Well last time i laddered i was somewhere between Plat and Diamond, so whats best is actually not my biggest concern I like doing crazy stuff, plus if that 3rd CC is hidden... well not many people are good at scouting xD
ah cool. It's nice to know that some people are still there that don't take a super serious approach to laddering. I noticed that SC2 has made me somewhat of a try-hard
I dont really ladder a lot tbh, so when i do i just mess a little bit arround. Not really crazy stuff like 1 base BCcccccccc, but i'm not trying to do super refined builds.
I still play marine/tank TvZ most of the time just because tanks are awesome TT
pro strat: lift into the inbase natural on nimbus and confuse your oponent a good follow up is two port banshee
that s so evil I might even try it when I get T on that map again
On July 28 2014 20:48 Faust852 wrote: Anyway, the more I see them, the more I think Vipers are ridiculous as fuck.
The unit was designed to be ridiculous against something without mobility. Like trapped stalkers and collosi :D
Having a spell that kinda garantee the OS of a massive unit is a bit ridiculous still :p
Ever heard of the defiler? Now that unit was insane
Not to mention that to counter it as P you had to build unit nobody ever built /sarcasm (yes, i am aware Dark Archons were being introduced closer to the end of BW).
On July 28 2014 20:34 BlackCompany wrote: Damn you zerg for going 3 hatch before pool, i'm still trying to make 3CC before rax viable as terran
I actually do that sometimes vs a friend of mine.
Haha, well my results on the ladder are not really good enough that it is worth trying, Protoss really loves DTs and oracles. And SCVs cant shoot up or detect invisible stuff :p
Though i actually won vs a Z sometimes
it's not even worth it against Zerg I think because you delay Mules and tech too much. I think CC first, then one rax and then third CC would be better
Well last time i laddered i was somewhere between Plat and Diamond, so whats best is actually not my biggest concern I like doing crazy stuff, plus if that 3rd CC is hidden... well not many people are good at scouting xD
ah cool. It's nice to know that some people are still there that don't take a super serious approach to laddering. I noticed that SC2 has made me somewhat of a try-hard
I dont really ladder a lot tbh, so when i do i just mess a little bit arround. Not really crazy stuff like 1 base BCcccccccc, but i'm not trying to do super refined builds.
I still play marine/tank TvZ most of the time just because tanks are awesome TT
pro strat: lift into the inbase natural on nimbus and confuse your oponent a good follow up is two port banshee
Can be dangerous though, sometimes enemies leave the game when i float (to the gold on habitation for example) thinking it was a mistake they got this game xD And then i get my strat denied :/
On July 28 2014 20:50 Ramiz1989 wrote: Poor Kyo-, he isn't posting anymore, is he the Protoss version of GumBa?
This was a beautiful game by Zest. At the very end he made a few bad choices with his army comp and decided to stay in the middle of the map. He more than likely did not count on vipers as he only warped in 1 HT. It happens but that is most certainly heart-breaking for him. The game was so in his favor it was kind of depressing to watch.
Of course, you're allowed to think otherwise if you'd like! :D
On July 28 2014 20:48 Faust852 wrote: Anyway, the more I see them, the more I think Vipers are ridiculous as fuck.
Vipers are super binary, they either destroy you or just die to feedback. Basically, if zerg gets ahead early and gets maxed on roach/hydra with a few vipers before toss can get both HT and colossus, the game ends instantly, if you cannot protect your big AOE units from abduct, you're dead.
Blinding cloud is more interesting because it can be worked around and forces the opponent to make really hard decisions very quickly.
On July 28 2014 20:48 Faust852 wrote: Anyway, the more I see them, the more I think Vipers are ridiculous as fuck.
The unit was designed to be ridiculous against something without mobility. Like trapped stalkers and collosi :D
Having a spell that kinda garantee the OS of a massive unit is a bit ridiculous still :p
Ever heard of the defiler? Now that unit was insane
Not to mention that to counter it as P you had to build unit nobody ever built /sarcasm (yes, i am aware Dark Archons were being introduced closer to the end of BW).
On July 28 2014 20:48 Faust852 wrote: Anyway, the more I see them, the more I think Vipers are ridiculous as fuck.
Vipers are super binary, they either destroy you or just die to feedback. Basically, if zerg gets ahead early and gets maxed on roach/hydra with a few vipers before toss can get both HT and colossus, the game ends instantly, if you cannot protect your big AOE units from abduct, you're dead.
Blinding cloud is more interesting because it can be worked around and forced the opponent to make really hard decisions very quickly.
On July 28 2014 20:48 Faust852 wrote: Anyway, the more I see them, the more I think Vipers are ridiculous as fuck.
The unit was designed to be ridiculous against something without mobility. Like trapped stalkers and collosi :D
Having a spell that kinda garantee the OS of a massive unit is a bit ridiculous still :p
Ever heard of the defiler? Now that unit was insane
Not to mention that to counter it as P you had to build unit nobody ever built /sarcasm (yes, i am aware Dark Archons were being introduced closer to the end of BW).
Dark archons always hyped me whenever I saw them :D
On July 28 2014 20:48 Faust852 wrote: Anyway, the more I see them, the more I think Vipers are ridiculous as fuck.
The unit was designed to be ridiculous against something without mobility. Like trapped stalkers and collosi :D
Having a spell that kinda garantee the OS of a massive unit is a bit ridiculous still :p
Ever heard of the defiler? Now that unit was insane
Not to mention that to counter it as P you had to build unit nobody ever built /sarcasm (yes, i am aware Dark Archons were being introduced closer to the end of BW).
Huh? The counter to every zerg unit was storm
Feedback was more certain counter to defiler. And maelstrom (or whatever it was) much more certain counter to ultra-ling for storms to do work. But yeah, storm counters everything.
On July 28 2014 20:50 Ramiz1989 wrote: Poor Kyo-, he isn't posting anymore, is he the Protoss version of GumBa?
Wat
Well, when Innovation(or some other Terran) loses the game, you usually get depressed, get heartattack, stop posting or just get banned. :D
Kyo- was posting minutes ago how Zest is amazing and how it is just a matter of time before Rogue ggs and he is nowhere to be seen now. I don't blame him though, it looked pretty over for Rogue and I would also be pissed if my favorite player made a bunch of mistakes and lose the game that he had in the bag.
On July 28 2014 20:48 Faust852 wrote: Anyway, the more I see them, the more I think Vipers are ridiculous as !@#$%^&*.
Vipers are super binary, they either destroy you or just die to feedback. Basically, if zerg gets ahead early and gets maxed on roach/hydra with a few vipers before toss can get both HT and colossus, the game ends instantly, if you cannot protect your big AOE units from abduct, you're dead.
Blinding cloud is more interesting because it can be worked around and forced the opponent to make really hard decisions very quickly.
Yeh. Though Blinding Cloud is a bit dumb vs Siege Tanks, it's fine vs everything else as they can micro out of it. Abduct on the other hand is such a dumb spell.
On July 28 2014 20:48 Faust852 wrote: Anyway, the more I see them, the more I think Vipers are ridiculous as fuck.
Vipers are super binary, they either destroy you or just die to feedback. Basically, if zerg gets ahead early and gets maxed on roach/hydra with a few vipers before toss can get both HT and colossus, the game ends instantly, if you cannot protect your big AOE units from abduct, you're dead.
Blinding cloud is more interesting because it can be worked around and forced the opponent to make really hard decisions very quickly.
So it's almost as stupid as Vortex in WoL ? D:
Kind of, except that with vipers you know it's over before the fight even begins. You can't stop the maxed zerg roach/hydra with the supply you have at that time without colossus, and your colossi are guaranteed to die immediately. The fight is basically a death animation.
Vortex was still a gamble all the way up until it was cast, then once you knew how many broods vs archons went in it, you knew who would win.
Yeh. Though Blinding Cloud is a bit dumb vs Siege Tanks, it's fine vs everything else as they can micro out of it. Abduct on the other hand is such a dumb spell.
It's not a great concept, but zerg could never beat skytoss or skyterran without it.
On July 28 2014 20:50 Ramiz1989 wrote: Poor Kyo-, he isn't posting anymore, is he the Protoss version of GumBa?
Wat
Well, when Innovation(or some other Terran) loses the game, you usually get depressed, get heartattack, stop posting or just get banned. :D
Kyo- was posting minutes ago how Zest is amazing and how it is just a matter of time before Rogue ggs and he is nowhere to be seen now. I don't blame him though, it looked pretty over for Rogue and I would also be pissed if my favorite player made a bunch of mistakes and lose the game that he had in the bag.
An Inno loss is a loss for everyone and everyone is sad then
On July 28 2014 20:50 Ramiz1989 wrote: Poor Kyo-, he isn't posting anymore, is he the Protoss version of GumBa?
This was a beautiful game by Zest. At the very end he made a few bad choices with his army comp and decided to stay in the middle of the map. He more than likely did not count on vipers as he only warped in 1 HT. It happens but that is most certainly heart-breaking for him. The game was so in his favor it was kind of depressing to watch.
Of course, you're allowed to think otherwise if you'd like! :D
I am just teasing you a little bit, I agree completely. Too bad he had poor engagement.
On July 28 2014 20:48 Faust852 wrote: Anyway, the more I see them, the more I think Vipers are ridiculous as fuck.
Vipers are super binary, they either destroy you or just die to feedback. Basically, if zerg gets ahead early and gets maxed on roach/hydra with a few vipers before toss can get both HT and colossus, the game ends instantly, if you cannot protect your big AOE units from abduct, you're dead.
Blinding cloud is more interesting because it can be worked around and forced the opponent to make really hard decisions very quickly.
So it's almost as stupid as Vortex in WoL ? D:
Kind of, except that with vipers you know it's over before the fight even begins. You can't stop the maxed zerg roach/hydra with the supply you have at that time without colossus, and your colossi are guaranteed to die immediately. The fight is basically a death animation.
Vortex was still a gamble all the way up until it was cast, then once you knew how many broods vs archons went in it, you knew who would win.
WTH, can't the Vipers get Feedbacked?
Isn't there such a thing as "Vipers abduct one Colossus but then get Feedbacked, which is less binary than Feedback before any Abducts OR all Abducts go off before Feedback"?
On July 28 2014 20:50 Ramiz1989 wrote: Poor Kyo-, he isn't posting anymore, is he the Protoss version of GumBa?
Wat
Well, when Innovation(or some other Terran) loses the game, you usually get depressed, get heartattack, stop posting or just get banned. :D
Kyo- was posting minutes ago how Zest is amazing and how it is just a matter of time before Rogue ggs and he is nowhere to be seen now. I don't blame him though, it looked pretty over for Rogue and I would also be pissed if my favorite player made a bunch of mistakes and lose the game that he had in the bag.
edit: Zest is not my favorite player. He is KT after all
Hope to see KT finish it out tomorrow. I want my SKT vs KT finals. qq
On July 28 2014 20:48 Faust852 wrote: Anyway, the more I see them, the more I think Vipers are ridiculous as fuck.
Vipers are super binary, they either destroy you or just die to feedback. Basically, if zerg gets ahead early and gets maxed on roach/hydra with a few vipers before toss can get both HT and colossus, the game ends instantly, if you cannot protect your big AOE units from abduct, you're dead.
Blinding cloud is more interesting because it can be worked around and forced the opponent to make really hard decisions very quickly.
So it's almost as stupid as Vortex in WoL ? D:
Kind of, except that with vipers you know it's over before the fight even begins. You can't stop the maxed zerg roach/hydra with the supply you have at that time without colossus, and your colossi are guaranteed to die immediately. The fight is basically a death animation.
Vortex was still a gamble all the way up until it was cast, then once you knew how many broods vs archons went in it, you knew who would win.
Please... in lot of games vipers are feedback or sniped before they do something. I hope P will not start a witchhunt against an unit which not use every game.
On July 28 2014 20:48 Faust852 wrote: Anyway, the more I see them, the more I think Vipers are ridiculous as fuck.
Vipers are super binary, they either destroy you or just die to feedback. Basically, if zerg gets ahead early and gets maxed on roach/hydra with a few vipers before toss can get both HT and colossus, the game ends instantly, if you cannot protect your big AOE units from abduct, you're dead.
Blinding cloud is more interesting because it can be worked around and forced the opponent to make really hard decisions very quickly.
So it's almost as stupid as Vortex in WoL ? D:
Kind of, except that with vipers you know it's over before the fight even begins. You can't stop the maxed zerg roach/hydra with the supply you have at that time without colossus, and your colossi are guaranteed to die immediately. The fight is basically a death animation.
Vortex was still a gamble all the way up until it was cast, then once you knew how many broods vs archons went in it, you knew who would win.
WTH, can't the Vipers get Feedbacked?
Isn't there such a thing as "Vipers abduct one Colossus but then get Feedbacked, which is less binary than Feedback before any Abducts OR all Abducts go off before Feedback"?
You didn't read the previous post? I was talking about a scenario where zerg gets ahead and gets vipers before toss has both templars and colossi, which happens with some frequency.
Viper can and do get feedbacked a lot, once templars are out in numbers they become more or less dead weight.
Please... in lot of games vipers are feedback or sniped before they do something. I hope P will not start a witchhunt against an unit which not use every game.
I'm a zerg player who is marginally more fond of protoss than I am of the bubonic plague. I was talking about how vipers work either amazingly or not at all.
On July 28 2014 20:48 Faust852 wrote: Anyway, the more I see them, the more I think Vipers are ridiculous as fuck.
Vipers are super binary, they either destroy you or just die to feedback. Basically, if zerg gets ahead early and gets maxed on roach/hydra with a few vipers before toss can get both HT and colossus, the game ends instantly, if you cannot protect your big AOE units from abduct, you're dead.
Blinding cloud is more interesting because it can be worked around and forced the opponent to make really hard decisions very quickly.
So it's almost as stupid as Vortex in WoL ? D:
Kind of, except that with vipers you know it's over before the fight even begins. You can't stop the maxed zerg roach/hydra with the supply you have at that time without colossus, and your colossi are guaranteed to die immediately. The fight is basically a death animation.
Vortex was still a gamble all the way up until it was cast, then once you knew how many broods vs archons went in it, you knew who would win.
WTH, can't the Vipers get Feedbacked?
Isn't there such a thing as "Vipers abduct one Colossus but then get Feedbacked, which is less binary than Feedback before any Abducts OR all Abducts go off before Feedback"?
You didn't read the previous post? I was talking about a scenario where zerg gets ahead and gets vipers before toss has both templars and colossi, which happens with some frequency.
Viper can and do get feedbacked a lot, once templars are out in numbers they become more or less dead weight.
Ah, OK. The comparison to Vortex threw me. Vortex was horrible and absolutely had to go.
Yeah i emphasize ease lol. Sleep was easy mode. Flash was build order win TY was ease Zest was a good game both players playing good Starcraft. Zest vs Rogue was lol xD
On July 28 2014 23:10 Random_0 wrote: Does anyone know when sc2proleague re-broadcasts their Proleague matches on Twitch? YouTube is blocked for me, and I really wanna watch these games!
JINAIR vs KT Players! P sOs vs T FlaSh - Out Boxer T Cure vs Z hitmaN - Frost Z TRUE vs P Stats - Overgrowth Z Rogue vs T TY - Merry Go Round P Avenge vs P Zest - King Sejong Station T Maru vs Z Action - Habitation Station
On July 28 2014 23:54 Musicus wrote: Wolf just tweeted the players for tomorrow:
JINAIR vs KT Players! P sOs vs T FlaSh - Out Boxer T Cure vs Z hitmaN - Frost Z TRUE vs P Stats - Overgrowth Z Rogue vs T TY - Merry Go Round P Avenge vs P Zest - King Sejong Station T Maru vs Z Action - Habitation Station
sOs < Flash Cure > hitmaN TRUE > Stats Rogue> TY Avenge < Zest Maru < Action
On July 28 2014 23:54 Musicus wrote: Wolf just tweeted the players for tomorrow:
JINAIR vs KT Players! P sOs vs T FlaSh - Out Boxer T Cure vs Z hitmaN - Frost Z TRUE vs P Stats - Overgrowth Z Rogue vs T TY - Merry Go Round P Avenge vs P Zest - King Sejong Station T Maru vs Z Action - Habitation Station
sOs < Flash Cure > hitmaN TRUE > Stats Rogue> TY Avenge < Zest Maru < Action
On July 28 2014 23:54 Musicus wrote: Wolf just tweeted the players for tomorrow:
JINAIR vs KT Players! P sOs vs T FlaSh - Out Boxer T Cure vs Z hitmaN - Frost Z TRUE vs P Stats - Overgrowth Z Rogue vs T TY - Merry Go Round P Avenge vs P Zest - King Sejong Station T Maru vs Z Action - Habitation Station
sOs < Flash Cure > hitmaN TRUE > Stats Rogue> TY Avenge < Zest Maru < Action
Ace sOs > Zest
No way Maru loses to Action you crazy person!
Edit: Day 3 thread is up!
Maru is going to lose his proxy reapers/marines to Action's speedling expand, and then dies to the follow up baneling bust. If he does anything else, the KT Coach should get fired. From the planet.
On July 28 2014 23:54 Musicus wrote: Wolf just tweeted the players for tomorrow:
JINAIR vs KT Players! P sOs vs T FlaSh - Out Boxer T Cure vs Z hitmaN - Frost Z TRUE vs P Stats - Overgrowth Z Rogue vs T TY - Merry Go Round P Avenge vs P Zest - King Sejong Station T Maru vs Z Action - Habitation Station
The racial distribution by both teams is perfect!
Gotta predict now: P sOs vs T FlaSh - Out Boxer T Cure vs Z hitmaN - Frost Z TRUE vs P Stats - Overgrowth Z Rogue vs T TY - Merry Go Round P Avenge vs P Zest - King Sejong Station T Maru vs Z Action- Habitation Station
On July 29 2014 05:24 Destructicon wrote: Oh wow, Avenge must be sick good in practice or something if JinAir are sending him out right now, in the playoffs.
Sending your Code S players is usually a good idea when it counts ;-)
EPT
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TY <Outboxer> ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bRY3qMu.png)
Sleep <Overgrowth> 
Zest <King Sejong Station> ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/v2NnVim.png)
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Game 1 | Game 2 | Game 3 | Game 4 | Game 5 | Game 6 | Game 7
Game 1 | Game 2 | Game 3 | Game 4 | Game 5 | Game 6 | Game 7
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