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On April 25 2014 00:52 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 22:45 Destructicon wrote:On April 24 2014 22:23 liberate71 wrote:On April 24 2014 22:20 Glorfindel! wrote:On April 24 2014 22:19 liberate71 wrote:On April 24 2014 22:14 Glorfindel! wrote:
Also loving the double moral in having so many people constantly claiming:
"If all Terrans around the world would return to Korea then we would have even balance in Code S"
MMA returns home and gets destroyed - now the same people are saying "Ohh my God, MMA so bad, what on earth did you expect?"
I think MMA today displayed that the best Terrans are actually in Code S and Jjakji, Bomber, MMA and others play in EU/NA for a reason. Polt and Taeja on another level though. Yeah lets pretend he went 0-2 0-2. Nah, actually it was 0-2, 1-2 vs the players playing in Korea, my misstake. Christ - theres so much extremist mentality. It's like it has to be black and white. You don't think MMA could do to someone like Dark, what he did to Revival? Just because Code S has 32 slots, doesn't mean there are only 32 Code S quality players in the world at one time. Some people have better matchups and get shit luck in matchups, some people have good days and bad days. I think its just excessively cynical to be a WCS KR elitist and slam everyone else. I'd like to think there are say... 50 Code S players in the world at one time. Rather than assuming there are only 32 (or some people think there are only 16, but the other 16 are just flukey inclusions to the Ro32) Yeah it is extremely cynical and stupid to go black and white on everything, the world is rarely that simple and more often then not its in shades grey. But the same could be said for the idiots that pertain Code S would have an even race distribution if all the successful Korean terrans returned. What today revealed to us is exactly that possibility, yeah you can have a bunch of terrans get their best MUs and make it back into Code S or they can end up like MMA playing their worst MU and bomb back down to Code B. I've got a lot more to say but its probably best if I end it here. Edit: And damn, I really wanted MMA to make it trough but his chances where really slim from the get go. lol, MMA's issue wasn't playing his worse MU. It was that he was facing Zest and PartinG. If all code S terrans had to win a Bo3 vs Zest and PartinG to get into code S. We would likely only had Maru (and even Maru might not have made it). I am not saying MMA would definitely have made code S. But you cannot say that he wouldn't have made it either based on today's games.
Maru and Bbyong because BByong always gets into Code S 
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On April 24 2014 22:58 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 22:15 cpower wrote:On April 24 2014 22:11 YyapSsap wrote:
When something goes wrong in TvP.. its game ending for Terran. except Parting and Zest are top 3 protoss in the world and mma is not even top 5 terran in the world. He is just bad against toss in general. If MMA is not top 5 Terran in the world, then which 5 Terrans would you put in front of him? Keep in mind that he's the highest finishing Terran in WCS Season 1.
Maru , Taeja, Polt, TY, Innovation, jjakji, Flash, Bomber.. is he better than any of these? He is probably in the same tier as bomber but thats about it.
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On April 24 2014 23:19 liberate71 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 23:16 Bagration wrote:On April 24 2014 23:03 liberate71 wrote:On April 24 2014 22:58 Bagration wrote:On April 24 2014 22:15 cpower wrote:On April 24 2014 22:11 YyapSsap wrote:
When something goes wrong in TvP.. its game ending for Terran. except Parting and Zest are top 3 protoss in the world and mma is not even top 5 terran in the world. He is just bad against toss in general. If MMA is not top 5 Terran in the world, then which 5 Terrans would you put in front of him? Keep in mind that he's the highest finishing Terran in WCS Season 1. Maru, TY, Flash, Innovation quite clearly. Then I'd have Bbyonjwa, Polt and Taeja as pretty sure. It's hard to rank a lot of the time though - personal bias comes in, and most people dont get to see every single game for every player, so if you just so happen to see all of herO's good games, you think he's a god, yet someone else who mostly sees him take some spankings in the games he loses, may not rank him top 10 for example. Maru I agree is better, innovation is of comparable skill. But flash? Code b flash? lol . Likewise, TY has no individual results You do realise that Proleague and GSL utilise the exact same versions of Starcraft 2 right? Proleague isnt a mod or anything
That is what I thought until I saw TY and Flash play in GSL. MSL and OSL played the same version of BW and yet we had OSL Bisu? There is a pretty big difference between 1 map 1 opponent vs GSL dual tournament. Just as some players are more suited for weekend tournaments compare to GSL (Taeja comes to mind).
And who has Flash beaten in PL besides 1 game from Rain? He beat Rain, eMotion. Went 1-1 with HerO, Stork. Lost to Billowy, PartinG, Sora and Super. In other matches, he beat Panic, Paralyze. Lost of MyungSik, Zest, Yonghwa.
So basically he beats tier 3 protoss, loses or sometimes ties Tier 2 and tier 1 except for beating Rain.
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On April 25 2014 00:52 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 00:52 vthree wrote:On April 24 2014 22:45 Destructicon wrote:On April 24 2014 22:23 liberate71 wrote:On April 24 2014 22:20 Glorfindel! wrote:On April 24 2014 22:19 liberate71 wrote:On April 24 2014 22:14 Glorfindel! wrote:
Also loving the double moral in having so many people constantly claiming:
"If all Terrans around the world would return to Korea then we would have even balance in Code S"
MMA returns home and gets destroyed - now the same people are saying "Ohh my God, MMA so bad, what on earth did you expect?"
I think MMA today displayed that the best Terrans are actually in Code S and Jjakji, Bomber, MMA and others play in EU/NA for a reason. Polt and Taeja on another level though. Yeah lets pretend he went 0-2 0-2. Nah, actually it was 0-2, 1-2 vs the players playing in Korea, my misstake. Christ - theres so much extremist mentality. It's like it has to be black and white. You don't think MMA could do to someone like Dark, what he did to Revival? Just because Code S has 32 slots, doesn't mean there are only 32 Code S quality players in the world at one time. Some people have better matchups and get shit luck in matchups, some people have good days and bad days. I think its just excessively cynical to be a WCS KR elitist and slam everyone else. I'd like to think there are say... 50 Code S players in the world at one time. Rather than assuming there are only 32 (or some people think there are only 16, but the other 16 are just flukey inclusions to the Ro32) Yeah it is extremely cynical and stupid to go black and white on everything, the world is rarely that simple and more often then not its in shades grey. But the same could be said for the idiots that pertain Code S would have an even race distribution if all the successful Korean terrans returned. What today revealed to us is exactly that possibility, yeah you can have a bunch of terrans get their best MUs and make it back into Code S or they can end up like MMA playing their worst MU and bomb back down to Code B. I've got a lot more to say but its probably best if I end it here. Edit: And damn, I really wanted MMA to make it trough but his chances where really slim from the get go. lol, MMA's issue wasn't playing his worse MU. It was that he was facing Zest and PartinG. If all code S terrans had to win a Bo3 vs Zest and PartinG to get into code S. We would likely only had Maru (and even Maru might not have made it). I am not saying MMA would definitely have made code S. But you cannot say that he wouldn't have made it either based on today's games. Maru and Bbyong because BByong always gets into Code S
But so does PartinG  ... and I would favor Zest over BByong
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On April 25 2014 00:57 cpower wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 22:58 Bagration wrote:On April 24 2014 22:15 cpower wrote:On April 24 2014 22:11 YyapSsap wrote:
When something goes wrong in TvP.. its game ending for Terran. except Parting and Zest are top 3 protoss in the world and mma is not even top 5 terran in the world. He is just bad against toss in general. If MMA is not top 5 Terran in the world, then which 5 Terrans would you put in front of him? Keep in mind that he's the highest finishing Terran in WCS Season 1. Maru , Taeja, Polt, TY, Innovation, jjakji, Flash, Bomber.. is he better than any of these? He is probably in the same tier as bomber but thats about it.
Yes, Jjakji is a tier below looking at their games vs MC. Flash plays medicore protosses in PL and gets owned in Code A, IEM qualifiers. TY is slightly better but got 4-0 by Yonghwa. Polt got beaten by Revival who MMA beat soundly today. Bomber lost to Arthur.
There is no way you can judge any terran for losing to Zest and PartinG. There is no way you can put MMA a tier below anyone except Maru.
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On April 24 2014 22:00 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 21:58 Vanadiel wrote:On April 24 2014 21:56 ZenithM wrote:On April 24 2014 21:53 Inflicted_ wrote:
BL INFESTOR HAS ARRIVED What's the deal with calling anything bio related "BL infestor" in this thread? New TL meme? Or is it just about the slow lategame turtlish style? It is because Rain (and Totalbiscuit after that) whined about how much broken terran was compared to protoss since the Widow mine buff and compared it to Brood Lord/infest area. Unlike Rain, however, TB made a point of repeatedly telling "LR" (I'm not sure who LR is, but I'm sure it's a person) that anyone who doesn't think Terran is broken late-game is blind and probably deaf as well. I think it would have died out a while ago if he hadn't kept fueling the fire that made people want to respond to him.
This is a thing that was never actually said, but I guess making shit up does make arguing easier.
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On April 25 2014 01:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 22:00 Zealously wrote:On April 24 2014 21:58 Vanadiel wrote:On April 24 2014 21:56 ZenithM wrote:On April 24 2014 21:53 Inflicted_ wrote:
BL INFESTOR HAS ARRIVED What's the deal with calling anything bio related "BL infestor" in this thread? New TL meme? Or is it just about the slow lategame turtlish style? It is because Rain (and Totalbiscuit after that) whined about how much broken terran was compared to protoss since the Widow mine buff and compared it to Brood Lord/infest area. Unlike Rain, however, TB made a point of repeatedly telling "LR" (I'm not sure who LR is, but I'm sure it's a person) that anyone who doesn't think Terran is broken late-game is blind and probably deaf as well. I think it would have died out a while ago if he hadn't kept fueling the fire that made people want to respond to him. This is a thing that was never actually said, but I guess making shit up does make arguing easier.
Punch him!
Oh wait, wrong game
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On April 25 2014 01:08 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 00:57 cpower wrote:On April 24 2014 22:58 Bagration wrote:On April 24 2014 22:15 cpower wrote:On April 24 2014 22:11 YyapSsap wrote:
When something goes wrong in TvP.. its game ending for Terran. except Parting and Zest are top 3 protoss in the world and mma is not even top 5 terran in the world. He is just bad against toss in general. If MMA is not top 5 Terran in the world, then which 5 Terrans would you put in front of him? Keep in mind that he's the highest finishing Terran in WCS Season 1. Maru , Taeja, Polt, TY, Innovation, jjakji, Flash, Bomber.. is he better than any of these? He is probably in the same tier as bomber but thats about it. Yes, Jjakji is a tier below looking at their games vs MC. Flash plays medicore protosses in PL and gets owned in Code A, IEM qualifiers. TY is slightly better but got 4-0 by Yonghwa. Polt got beaten by Revival who MMA beat soundly today. Bomber lost to Arthur. There is no way you can judge any terran for losing to Zest and PartinG. There is no way you can put MMA a tier below anyone except Maru.
if you said that, MMA lost to StarDust, MC, Patience recently and he is in the same tier as Maru?
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Whoa, whoa whoa people. When we are arguing about who is the best Terrans, why are we focusing so heavily on who beat who and who lost to who, when we should be looking at results in tournaments.
MMA and Polt are the only Terrans to have gotten 2nd places in Premier tournaments this year. Taeja managed a Ro4 in IEM, and Jjakji got some semifinal appearances as well (WCS EU).
I'd say the top Terran is Maru (even though he only made the Ro8) simply due to form, but there is no way that Flash, TY or Bbyong can be considered better than MMA or Polt just because they held an above 0.600 match score in PL or made it to Code S.
But let's see how TY does at Dreamhack, It will be a great chance for him to get some foreign tournament experience and wins.
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On April 24 2014 22:07 ZenithM wrote:
Widow mines in mineral lines, so fearsome.
Killer rhymes yo
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On April 25 2014 02:11 Bagration wrote:
Whoa, whoa whoa people. When we are arguing about who is the best Terrans, why are we focusing so heavily on who beat who and who lost to who, when we should be looking at results in tournaments.
MMA and Polt are the only Terrans to have gotten 2nd places in Premier tournaments this year. Taeja managed a Ro4 in IEM, and Jjakji got some semifinal appearances as well (WCS EU).
I'd say the top Terran is Maru (even though he only made the Ro8) simply due to form, but there is no way that Flash, TY or Bbyong can be considered better than MMA or Polt just because they held an above 0.600 match score in PL or made it to Code S.
But let's see how TY does at Dreamhack, It will be a great chance for him to get some foreign tournament experience and wins.
He will win it. Quote me on Sunday.
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On April 25 2014 04:00 Glorfindel! wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 02:11 Bagration wrote:
Whoa, whoa whoa people. When we are arguing about who is the best Terrans, why are we focusing so heavily on who beat who and who lost to who, when we should be looking at results in tournaments.
MMA and Polt are the only Terrans to have gotten 2nd places in Premier tournaments this year. Taeja managed a Ro4 in IEM, and Jjakji got some semifinal appearances as well (WCS EU).
I'd say the top Terran is Maru (even though he only made the Ro8) simply due to form, but there is no way that Flash, TY or Bbyong can be considered better than MMA or Polt just because they held an above 0.600 match score in PL or made it to Code S.
But let's see how TY does at Dreamhack, It will be a great chance for him to get some foreign tournament experience and wins. He will win it. Quote me on Sunday.
Ok
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On April 24 2014 22:10 Glorfindel! wrote:
Well guys, dont hang your heads!
The chances for another PvP-finals is higly rising - and how we enjoy those! :D
who doesnt want a good laugh at 2 games of proxy gate in a row? :D
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On April 25 2014 01:08 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2014 00:57 cpower wrote:On April 24 2014 22:58 Bagration wrote:On April 24 2014 22:15 cpower wrote:On April 24 2014 22:11 YyapSsap wrote:
When something goes wrong in TvP.. its game ending for Terran. except Parting and Zest are top 3 protoss in the world and mma is not even top 5 terran in the world. He is just bad against toss in general. If MMA is not top 5 Terran in the world, then which 5 Terrans would you put in front of him? Keep in mind that he's the highest finishing Terran in WCS Season 1. Maru , Taeja, Polt, TY, Innovation, jjakji, Flash, Bomber.. is he better than any of these? He is probably in the same tier as bomber but thats about it. There is no way you can judge any terran for losing to Zest and PartinG. There is no way you can put MMA a tier below anyone except Maru.
Well, that's about it. If you judge a players "Code S"-level on the ability to beat Zest, Zest is currently the only Code S level player beside Maru (-> who beat Zest in Ro16 :-P ). No one ever said that MMA might win a GSL season right now, but there's a huge difference between "Code S"-level and "Code S"-Champion.
MMA did quite well today, imo. He took a map off Zest and didn't look too poorly otherwise - I wouldn't say that's bad, tbh. Most Code S players get demolished by Zest as well xD
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I did not even watch , it was clear MMA will loose, even he is absolutely top terran. Nerf terran more. Buf protos, they are too week. And commentators? Give praise protos when they are not do mach special, no multitasking, no micro...
Go away SC2
User was warned for this post
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EPT
