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On June 24 2013 03:08 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 03:07 TheBB wrote:On June 24 2013 03:05 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 03:04 TheBB wrote:On June 24 2013 03:02 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 03:01 bo1b wrote:On June 24 2013 02:59 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On June 24 2013 02:56 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 02:55 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 02:55 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
Well umm... Nani maybe. didn't huk place in like top 8 for a couple GSLs? lol no he didn't But he did make ro16 three times Didn't he get to ro8 once? Yes I also thought he didnt but it seems he got to ro8 back in 2011 where he lost 0-3 to Mvp. But when I think of successful foreigners in GSL I would say Naniwa showed the most. He actually played when game was all figured out and seasons were much tougher than back in 2011 Got to love a guy in 2013 who says we had it all figured out in 2012. So you are saying playing WoL in 2011 was more difficult than playing in the last couple of seasons before Hots came out? I am talking about WoL not Hots, I thought that was obvious I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's impossible for you to know that we had complete knowledge of WoL in 2012. You are just splitting hairs. I am pretty sure most people would agree that WoL was for most part figured out in the last couple of seasons of GSL and that competition was much tougher than in the early days
That's kind of my point. People always tend to agree that the current state of knowledge is significantly closer to perfect than at any previous stage. They are generally always proven wrong. I think it's extremely prideful of you (and, indeed, of all these others who would agree with you) to claim that less than a year after the last significant metagame change it's conclusively shown that there would be no more.
And just to reiterate, this wasn't about whether or not the competition was tougher, it was whether or not the game was figured out or not. Those are different things.
Another edit: It's about people's perception of their own knowledge. Humans consistently tend to overestimate how much they know about other things.
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On June 24 2013 03:08 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 03:07 TheBB wrote:On June 24 2013 03:05 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 03:04 TheBB wrote:On June 24 2013 03:02 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 03:01 bo1b wrote:On June 24 2013 02:59 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On June 24 2013 02:56 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 02:55 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 02:55 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
Well umm... Nani maybe. didn't huk place in like top 8 for a couple GSLs? lol no he didn't But he did make ro16 three times Didn't he get to ro8 once? Yes I also thought he didnt but it seems he got to ro8 back in 2011 where he lost 0-3 to Mvp. But when I think of successful foreigners in GSL I would say Naniwa showed the most. He actually played when game was all figured out and seasons were much tougher than back in 2011 Got to love a guy in 2013 who says we had it all figured out in 2012. So you are saying playing WoL in 2011 was more difficult than playing in the last couple of seasons before Hots came out? I am talking about WoL not Hots, I thought that was obvious I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's impossible for you to know that we had complete knowledge of WoL in 2012. You are just splitting hairs. I am pretty sure most people would agree that WoL was for most part figured out in the last couple of seasons of GSL and that competition was much tougher than in the early days
nope after they rebalanced the game that it became heavily in favor of one race, WoL development basically stopped apart from ZvZ. So no WoL is barely figured out at all.
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Impossible to get a proper answer on twitch chat, whos the british guy on the right?
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On June 24 2013 03:14 babobbyj wrote:
Impossible to get a proper answer on twitch chat, whos the british guy on the right?
Redeye!!!! He helps host the WCS europe!
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On June 24 2013 03:11 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 03:06 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 03:02 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 24 2013 02:58 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 02:57 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 24 2013 02:56 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 02:55 SupLilSon wrote:On June 24 2013 02:54 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 02:53 SupLilSon wrote:On June 24 2013 02:51 Killcani wrote:
3/4 Zergs in top4 and they are talking about terran nerfs?! LOL Zergs have long been the only foreigners able to match vs Koreans for good reason. nani? huk? thorzain? What is this? 2010-2011? >have long been the only foreigners able to match vs Koreans..doesn't say anything about date. Well then we gotta count Jinro as #1 foreigner. fine by me You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now. The game was far from figured out until 2012 when people started to get good. What happened in a game that wasn't figured out is pretty irrelevant imo. Like, I could have invented the 4gate and won a GSL with it. so previous accomplishments mean nothing? Also I highly doubt you could have invented the 4gate and won GSL since a zerg won the first one. You said that zergs have long been the only foreigners, and I said other ones that while a bit ago were once able to compete with koreans too. If you didn't want that then be more specific and say something like "no none zerg foreigners at this time can compete with koreans in HOTS." Yea I did say that and you cited 3 P/T foreigners who had success like 2 years ago. Where are they now? Oh yea, getting trampled by the Zergs lol. I don't care if HuK was in Code S during the midpoint of WoL. That is a LONG time ago in terms of SC2.
they still had success so that proves you dont really have a argument. It could be 2 or 3 years later where we are in LOTV and it wouldn't change previous accomplishments.
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Well, this is kind of a consolation match, TLO should take this easily.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On June 24 2013 03:15 oogieogie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 03:11 SupLilSon wrote:On June 24 2013 03:06 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 03:02 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 24 2013 02:58 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 02:57 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 24 2013 02:56 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 02:55 SupLilSon wrote:On June 24 2013 02:54 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 02:53 SupLilSon wrote:
[quote]
Zergs have long been the only foreigners able to match vs Koreans for good reason. nani? huk? thorzain? What is this? 2010-2011? >have long been the only foreigners able to match vs Koreans..doesn't say anything about date. Well then we gotta count Jinro as #1 foreigner. fine by me You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now. The game was far from figured out until 2012 when people started to get good. What happened in a game that wasn't figured out is pretty irrelevant imo. Like, I could have invented the 4gate and won a GSL with it. so previous accomplishments mean nothing? Also I highly doubt you could have invented the 4gate and won GSL since a zerg won the first one. You said that zergs have long been the only foreigners, and I said other ones that while a bit ago were once able to compete with koreans too. If you didn't want that then be more specific and say something like "no none zerg foreigners at this time can compete with koreans in HOTS." Yea I did say that and you cited 3 P/T foreigners who had success like 2 years ago. Where are they now? Oh yea, getting trampled by the Zergs lol. I don't care if HuK was in Code S during the midpoint of WoL. That is a LONG time ago in terms of SC2. they still had success so that proves you dont really have a argument. It could be 2 or 3 years later where we are in LOTV and it wouldn't change previous accomplishments.
Christ
it doesn't matter. Morrow won a tournament with mass reaper off one base. Why? Because maps were retarded, balance was retarded, units were retarded, everything was retarded. But hey, it counts right.
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On June 24 2013 03:12 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 03:10 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 03:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 24 2013 03:06 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 03:02 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 24 2013 02:58 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 02:57 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 24 2013 02:56 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 02:55 SupLilSon wrote:On June 24 2013 02:54 oogieogie wrote:
[quote]
nani? huk? thorzain? What is this? 2010-2011? >have long been the only foreigners able to match vs Koreans..doesn't say anything about date. Well then we gotta count Jinro as #1 foreigner. fine by me You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now. The game was far from figured out until 2012 when people started to get good. What happened in a game that wasn't figured out is pretty irrelevant imo. Like, I could have invented the 4gate and won a GSL with it. so previous accomplishments mean nothing? Also I highly doubt you could have invented the 4gate and won GSL since a zerg one the first one. You said that zergs have long been the only foreigners, and I said other ones that while a bit ago were once able to compete with koreans too. If you didn't want that then be more specific and say something like "no none zerg foreigners at this time can compete with koreans in HOTS." I didn't say that, that was some other guy. What I'm saying is ever since the game has been somewhat figured out towards the end of WoL, the only foreigners really able to consistently compete with koreans are zergs and Naniwa. w/e, and there has been others like Jinro, Huk etc. Did you actually read my post. Like, be serious. Did you read it? I bolded the part that matters. Jinro and Huk have not done anything notable ever since the game got more figured out. And actually yes, I could have invented the 4gate and won a GSL with it. That's how MC won his first one.
and i said that doesn't change previous accomplishments no matter how long ago they were...and no you couldn't just win a GSL with 4gate.
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On June 24 2013 03:15 Daogin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 03:14 babobbyj wrote:
Impossible to get a proper answer on twitch chat, whos the british guy on the right? Redeye!!!! He helps host the WCS europe!
This description doesn't do him justice, Redeye's a living esports legend.
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Dang just looked at the HSC II Brackets: at least 18 consecutive PvP, and possibly more...And we are complaining about ZvZ right now ;D .
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On June 24 2013 03:14 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 03:08 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 03:07 TheBB wrote:On June 24 2013 03:05 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 03:04 TheBB wrote:On June 24 2013 03:02 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 03:01 bo1b wrote:On June 24 2013 02:59 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On June 24 2013 02:56 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 02:55 oogieogie wrote:
[quote]
didn't huk place in like top 8 for a couple GSLs? lol no he didn't But he did make ro16 three times Didn't he get to ro8 once? Yes I also thought he didnt but it seems he got to ro8 back in 2011 where he lost 0-3 to Mvp. But when I think of successful foreigners in GSL I would say Naniwa showed the most. He actually played when game was all figured out and seasons were much tougher than back in 2011 Got to love a guy in 2013 who says we had it all figured out in 2012. So you are saying playing WoL in 2011 was more difficult than playing in the last couple of seasons before Hots came out? I am talking about WoL not Hots, I thought that was obvious I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's impossible for you to know that we had complete knowledge of WoL in 2012. You are just splitting hairs. I am pretty sure most people would agree that WoL was for most part figured out in the last couple of seasons of GSL and that competition was much tougher than in the early days nope after they rebalanced the game that it became heavily in favor of one race, WoL development basically stopped apart from ZvZ. So no WoL is barely figured out at all.
Imagine what maps could have added. Strategy games on a high level are never really figured out. Tiny things change and players abuse it for a time untill others find an awnser, and things change again. It's on a constant flow.
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StarDust cheering for TLO lol
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On June 24 2013 03:14 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 03:08 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 03:07 TheBB wrote:On June 24 2013 03:05 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 03:04 TheBB wrote:On June 24 2013 03:02 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 03:01 bo1b wrote:On June 24 2013 02:59 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On June 24 2013 02:56 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 02:55 oogieogie wrote:
[quote]
didn't huk place in like top 8 for a couple GSLs? lol no he didn't But he did make ro16 three times Didn't he get to ro8 once? Yes I also thought he didnt but it seems he got to ro8 back in 2011 where he lost 0-3 to Mvp. But when I think of successful foreigners in GSL I would say Naniwa showed the most. He actually played when game was all figured out and seasons were much tougher than back in 2011 Got to love a guy in 2013 who says we had it all figured out in 2012. So you are saying playing WoL in 2011 was more difficult than playing in the last couple of seasons before Hots came out? I am talking about WoL not Hots, I thought that was obvious I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's impossible for you to know that we had complete knowledge of WoL in 2012. You are just splitting hairs. I am pretty sure most people would agree that WoL was for most part figured out in the last couple of seasons of GSL and that competition was much tougher than in the early days nope after they rebalanced the game that it became heavily in favor of one race, WoL development basically stopped apart from ZvZ. So no WoL is barely figured out at all.
Gumiho was still figuring out new things in TvZ during WoL. So was Dream in TvP.
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On June 24 2013 03:13 fuzzylogic44 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 03:08 bo1b wrote:On June 24 2013 03:07 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On June 24 2013 03:04 TheBB wrote:On June 24 2013 03:02 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 03:01 bo1b wrote:On June 24 2013 02:59 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On June 24 2013 02:56 Qwerty85 wrote:On June 24 2013 02:55 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 02:55 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
Well umm... Nani maybe. didn't huk place in like top 8 for a couple GSLs? lol no he didn't But he did make ro16 three times Didn't he get to ro8 once? Yes I also thought he didnt but it seems he got to ro8 back in 2011 where he lost 0-3 to Mvp. But when I think of successful foreigners in GSL I would say Naniwa showed the most. He actually played when game was all figured out and seasons were much tougher than back in 2011 Got to love a guy in 2013 who says we had it all figured out in 2012. WoL was totally figured out at the end Thank god that that blanket statement is easily proven, and that the competitive game didn't go through a major overhaul recently. Really? The meta did not change 1 iota (other than very slightly in TvP) for 6-8 months, every match up was basically 1 BO vs 1 BO every game.
That is shocking logic, and not true in any event lol. There was plenty of variance, and its impossible to say if terrans would have adopted using ghosts more like gumiho started to, or if symbols ling ultra infestor zvp style would have made a resurgence, or if stephanos roach hydra push vs terran would have grown. Or whatever else. To say that the game didnt change in 6 months is retarded, to say that zerg was winning a lot with broodlords and infestors isn't wrong, but that doesnt mean the game is figured out by any means.
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On June 24 2013 03:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 03:15 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 03:11 SupLilSon wrote:On June 24 2013 03:06 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 03:02 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 24 2013 02:58 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 02:57 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 24 2013 02:56 oogieogie wrote:On June 24 2013 02:55 SupLilSon wrote:On June 24 2013 02:54 oogieogie wrote:
[quote]
nani? huk? thorzain? What is this? 2010-2011? >have long been the only foreigners able to match vs Koreans..doesn't say anything about date. Well then we gotta count Jinro as #1 foreigner. fine by me You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now. The game was far from figured out until 2012 when people started to get good. What happened in a game that wasn't figured out is pretty irrelevant imo. Like, I could have invented the 4gate and won a GSL with it. so previous accomplishments mean nothing? Also I highly doubt you could have invented the 4gate and won GSL since a zerg won the first one. You said that zergs have long been the only foreigners, and I said other ones that while a bit ago were once able to compete with koreans too. If you didn't want that then be more specific and say something like "no none zerg foreigners at this time can compete with koreans in HOTS." Yea I did say that and you cited 3 P/T foreigners who had success like 2 years ago. Where are they now? Oh yea, getting trampled by the Zergs lol. I don't care if HuK was in Code S during the midpoint of WoL. That is a LONG time ago in terms of SC2. they still had success so that proves you dont really have a argument. It could be 2 or 3 years later where we are in LOTV and it wouldn't change previous accomplishments. Christ it doesn't matter. Morrow won a tournament with mass reaper off one base. Why? Because maps were retarded, balance was retarded, units were retarded, everything was retarded. But hey, it counts right.
the money he won from that tournament would say it counts.
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Wait why is StarDust there? Isnt he living in Switzerland?
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It's so amazing that TLO is performing so consistently at the top few of the tournaments he's in. TLO: The Legend Continues
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EPT
