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On June 01 2013 18:14 Orek wrote:
Code S
TvZ:39-38 (50.6%)
ZvP:24-23 (51.1%)
PvT:15-15 (50%)
Not bad. Not bad.
pretty bad actually that the racial representation is so different. Even with major imbalance you'd expect 50-50s on average in GSL because you need to qualify for it. Imbalance represents itself in a race being less represented, not the winrates of the tournament...
Anyway this is not the place for it but stats lean towards P being underpowered for sure
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On June 01 2013 18:24 mineirodabahia wrote:
This game is a businness. It would be nice if some kind of "best win of the series" trophy existed Could motivate players to not cheese or all in so much.
Grow up, newbie. You do whatever it takes to WIN in games and in real life.
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On June 01 2013 18:25 Bam Lee wrote:
I dont understand why everybody bitches about the roach baneling all-in. If innovations build has a clear weakness that can be abused and he does NOT fix it, why would you not abuse it? Why would you enter the later stages of the game ON HIS TERMS? That doesnt make sense,especially considering Innovations strength if he is allowed to play on his terms.
Because according to some dumb people Soulkey should have played a macro game vs fast 3 cc with no units. Everytime. And after this those dumb people say:"Oh god outmacro'd, outmacro'd!"
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On June 01 2013 18:28 FuRong wrote:
I think I'd have to watch the last game again before making a judgement. Did Soulkey just get lucky with his Mutas in the right place at the right time, or did he scout the drop incoming and move them there to intercept it?
Soulkey also got kind of lucky in game 4 when Innovation scanned his natural like five seconds after his army moved out. If Innovation saw the army he would have had another 25-30 seconds to prepare a defense and things could have gone differently.
Overall, Soulkey did get a bit lucky in the games he won, but at the same time Innovation helped him out with poor build order choices. Either way, Soulkey deserves credit for holding himself together and making good decisions under pressure. If you compare the two rax defense in game one with game six it's hard to believe it was the same player.
That scan saw the army moving by the way.
When the camera went up was about 2-3 seconds afterward, you'll see the map reaction when Innovation moves his units straight away to go defend.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On June 01 2013 18:29 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 18:27 tastyminerals wrote:On June 01 2013 18:22 sc2superfan101 wrote:On June 01 2013 18:19 tastyminerals wrote:
SK is clearly a worse player than Innovation, but that will be argued by any forum hero especially now.
I doubt that anyone thought SK was the favourite before the finals.
Still games were not entertaining, I'm happy for SK though, guess I wanted him to win, just not in this kind of fashion. stop trollin dawg. Innovation has one major strength: he doesn't make mistakes. Tonight, he made mistakes. Stop calling trolling reasonable arguments, or should I better point you to how many games has SK won and how many Bogus, should I mention how good Bogus games generally are and how good are SK ones? You've accused GOM of match-fixing, then moved on to saying that INoVation donated Soulkey the win (huh?), then said you wanted Soulkey to win. You have like 4 posts on this account and they've all be horrible. Get out of here with that nonsense. Soulkey has a winning record against Innovation. The more you know.
Not the best games by bogus obviously but well played by SK to win it. Bogus definitely didn't donate anything.
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Reading the comments after the finals with a cup of coffee is just .... priceless :D
PS Keep going guys, I got more coffee 
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On June 01 2013 18:28 DrPandaPhD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 18:26 ZenithM wrote:Ok so the game is pretty much balanced? Can Zerg stop whining now? :D Well it's similar to WoL PvZ. The stats said it was kinda close to 50% But protoss had to all-in to win. Still don't think Blizzard should change anything for a while. Want to see how every matchup evolves first.
That's not even the case on ZvT. Or atleast, show me thousands of games ending on a broodlord/infestor esque style vs mothership vortex with terran going full greed turtle and just win because of that.
I am fucking tired of the widow mines/hellbats complains by zerg players and lame excuses.
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On June 01 2013 18:29 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 18:19 scypio wrote:On June 01 2013 18:18 nimdil wrote:On June 01 2013 18:14 Targe wrote:On June 01 2013 18:11 nimdil wrote:On June 01 2013 17:57 scypio wrote:This is a hearbreaking moment... we endured so much whining... widow mines OP. Hellbats OP. Terran needs to be nerfed etc etc... only to get fifth Zerg GSL champion in a row. TT  Life Sniper Life Roro Soulkey well done. Blizzard cup is not gsl. Get over it... lol Blizzard cups count as GSL. Since when? Since it is http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_GSL_Blizzard_Cup Well they are named the same but they hardly compare to each other in terms of format and hardness.
Yeah, you have to get into regular GSL Code S and perform well there to get into GSL Blizzard Cup. Therefore GSL Blizzard cup does not count as GSL as it is clearly easier. LOL.
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United Kingdom12041 Posts
I like how even in SC2 people still complain about cheese. In a Bo7 especially cheese is very important to mix in and abusing your opponents weaknesses are key.
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On June 01 2013 18:30 TimENT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 18:29 AyMnRSC2 wrote:On June 01 2013 18:27 armada[sb] wrote:
I'm sorry, but anyone that doesn't think that Soulkey played well in that last game is an idiot. He completely shut down those hellbat drops, I mean, 4 drones killed for investing in 3+medivacs with hellbats? That's great defense. And yeah, innovation didn't repair his cc, but guess what, he was a little busy trying to defend his main and his third at the same time on fucking Daybreak with bio while macro'ing, let's see any of you do that in a finals situation in game 7 with the series on the line. Please. Be careful, you are tempting this thread by complaining about any of the following: 1) This series was the "worst" ever. 2) Innovation is the best ever and should have won 4-0 but stupid SK all ins. or 3) Saying anything positive about Soulkey actually winning instead of Innovation throwing. Quit baiting.
Just being honest my friend.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On June 01 2013 18:30 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 18:14 Orek wrote:
Code S
TvZ:39-38 (50.6%)
ZvP:24-23 (51.1%)
PvT:15-15 (50%)
Not bad. Not bad. pretty bad actually that the racial representation is so different. Even with major imbalance you'd expect 50-50s on average in GSL because you need to qualify for it. Imbalance represents itself in a race being less represented, not the winrates of the tournament... Anyway this is not the place for it but stats lean towards P being underpowered for sure
Less Ps in GSL could also point to the top Ps being worse, but as you said, this is not the place.
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On June 01 2013 18:29 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 18:19 scypio wrote:On June 01 2013 18:18 nimdil wrote:On June 01 2013 18:14 Targe wrote:On June 01 2013 18:11 nimdil wrote:On June 01 2013 17:57 scypio wrote:This is a hearbreaking moment... we endured so much whining... widow mines OP. Hellbats OP. Terran needs to be nerfed etc etc... only to get fifth Zerg GSL champion in a row. TT Life Sniper Life Roro Soulkey well done. Blizzard cup is not gsl. Get over it... lol Blizzard cups count as GSL. Since when? Since it is http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_GSL_Blizzard_Cup Well they are named the same but they hardly compare to each other in terms of format and hardness.
Everyone says MMA has 2 GSL titles.
And if we are going down that route. Mvp won "GSL World Championship" which consisted of Korean all-stars and Foreign all-stars. And last time I checked Mvp had 4 titles, not 3.
Don't know what's so hard to accept
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On June 01 2013 18:18 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 18:17 Targe wrote:On June 01 2013 18:15 Shellshock1122 wrote:On June 01 2013 18:14 Dodgin wrote:On June 01 2013 18:13 Wafflelisk wrote:
Oh God, what if Innovation never wins a championship? I wouldn't be surprised if that happens, he is the first player to ever get reverse killed in the finals in GSL, this just screams mentally weak in finals to me. He could be the next MKP. Imagine he loses 4-0 to Flash in his next GSL finals. and then loses to him again. it could totally happen God damn it, I missed your 40k post. it wasnt anything special. just doing what I normally do http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414614¤tpage=273#5444
Just another day at work. You're pretty cool guy, Shell'. 
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On June 01 2013 18:29 Orek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 18:26 ZenithM wrote:Ok so the game is pretty much balanced? Can Zerg stop whining now? :D as far as I know, it's a part of every race that is balance whining.
Zergs are especially good at it though :p
They would whine even if balance-favored.
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On June 01 2013 18:31 scypio wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 18:29 nimdil wrote:On June 01 2013 18:19 scypio wrote:On June 01 2013 18:18 nimdil wrote:On June 01 2013 18:14 Targe wrote:On June 01 2013 18:11 nimdil wrote:On June 01 2013 17:57 scypio wrote:This is a hearbreaking moment... we endured so much whining... widow mines OP. Hellbats OP. Terran needs to be nerfed etc etc... only to get fifth Zerg GSL champion in a row. TT Life Sniper Life Roro Soulkey well done. Blizzard cup is not gsl. Get over it... lol Blizzard cups count as GSL. Since when? Since it is http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_GSL_Blizzard_Cup Well they are named the same but they hardly compare to each other in terms of format and hardness. Yeah, you have to get into regular GSL Code S and perform well there to get into GSL Blizzard Cup. Therefore GSL Blizzard cup does not count as GSL as it is clearly easier. LOL.
Reminds me of that GSL super tournament that included foreigners lololol
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On June 01 2013 18:28 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 18:26 Sabu113 wrote:Once again the SC community has a surprising misunderstanding of how to use stats. Once again this comment is so easy to make, yet doesn't mean anything 97% of the time. See, that's a bad use of stats.
I was going for more pure scorn. :p
Context and stories. Stats are worthless without a story and observations to go with them. Hey guys here are some graphs from *everything* isn't going to be worthwhile. God knows we've had other periods where this game was obviously broken but people could make statistical stories that everything was fine.
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Time to head over to the SSL finals. One final after another. What a great night. :D
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On June 01 2013 18:30 IshinShishi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 18:23 ProTech wrote:On June 01 2013 18:21 Targe wrote:On June 01 2013 18:20 ProTech wrote:On June 01 2013 18:19 Big J wrote:On June 01 2013 18:14 AyMnRSC2 wrote:On June 01 2013 18:09 TimENT wrote:I can't get over how bad that was. Game 1: 2rax with terrible defense (yawn) Game 2: roach/hydra timing (only close game) Game 3: failed baneling allin (yawn) Game 4: successful roach bane allin (yawn) Game 5: successful roach band allin (yawn) Game 6: failed 2rax (yawn) Game 7: terrible macro game with terrible mistakes (yawn) I dont even care about which player won. This is motherfucking TvZ. The best game had fucking roaches and hydras. What the hell happened? That was just sad  Worst finals ever. Worst series ever. Disgusting. Actually, the best game was game 7. Innovation just got out multitasked. It was a lot of fun to watch. lol. hellbat drops, getting defelected. Innovation behind, tries to make up for it with a big drop. Flies through mutas. That's it. Nearly any WCS EU TvZ was better to watch. If the highest level of TvZ is cheese and cheese only, like we have seen this GSL (like, go through the LR threads. The macro games were 2x Life vs Innovation, 1 Roro vs Innovation, 1x Symbol vs Innovation. Basically every other series was a cheesefest), then I think we can only hope for some PvPs... lol Awful post, the games were good. Back and forth, you can't ask for much more than a game 7. Also, there's thousands of dollars on the line for these players, the last thing they're thinking about is your entertainment. That being said, take what you can get and enjoy watching the best players in the world, stop griping. These games were most certainly not good. ^^ Really? How about putting yourself in their shoes, have you ever played in front of thousands of people, not to mention on TV? Nerves play a roll, and peoples mindsets are different. Sorry you couldn't enjoy it to the fullest, but the games were good with everything considered. What's the problem with the games being bad? Just accept it and move on already, the games were pretty bad. And regarding playing "in front of thousands", wanna see good games in a similar situation? Go watch JJ vs Leenock, all of them were awesome. ---- At this point I will just start spoiling myself with the results and watching the recommended games, first mvp vs life and now this, the disappointment.
Picky viewer is picky. What you should do, is go play ladder yourself. Hell, enter a tournament yourself, sit in the booth and think about how you're going to win an extra 8grand by playing macro every game.
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My eyes are finally clearing up. Man I loved it when Soulkey was burying his face in his hands, the moment he walked on stage and it hit him when his team was walking over.
Incredibly emotional man....
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On June 01 2013 18:29 AyMnRSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 18:27 armada[sb] wrote:
I'm sorry, but anyone that doesn't think that Soulkey played well in that last game is an idiot. He completely shut down those hellbat drops, I mean, 4 drones killed for investing in 3+medivacs with hellbats? That's great defense. And yeah, innovation didn't repair his cc, but guess what, he was a little busy trying to defend his main and his third at the same time on fucking Daybreak with bio while macro'ing, let's see any of you do that in a finals situation in game 7 with the series on the line. Please. Be careful, you are tempting this thread by complaining about any of the following: 1) This series was the "worst" ever. 2) Innovation is the best ever and should have won 4-0 but stupid SK all ins. or 3) Saying anything positive about Soulkey actually winning instead of Innovation throwing.
That was just poor casting though, those drops were cost effective enough, they killed a ton of lings that could've been drones.
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EPT
