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On May 23 2013 20:20 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 20:16 Fenrax wrote:On May 23 2013 20:04 Brett wrote:On May 23 2013 19:57 Fenrax wrote:On May 23 2013 19:50 Fionn wrote:On May 23 2013 19:49 Mensol wrote:On May 23 2013 19:48 Fionn wrote:
Soulkey vs. Innovation final.
Welcome to the Revenge of the Nerds final. Stars and STX get their time in the sun.
Can you name the last OSL/MSL champions for STX and Stars respectively? Calm and GGplay? correct Calm > Kwanro in the WORST final of all-time GGplay > Iris in the BEST final of all-time lol I remember G1 of Calm vs Kwanro 5-Pool + double Sunken Colony vs. 12 Hatch and Calm held it by beating up everything with his drones and one Sunken standard Kwanro game Haha lol. Symbol's games today reminded me of the glorious Kwan flow chart. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=110336 Haha that chart is glorious indeed.
Lol
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On May 23 2013 20:16 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 20:04 Brett wrote:On May 23 2013 19:57 Fenrax wrote:On May 23 2013 19:50 Fionn wrote:On May 23 2013 19:49 Mensol wrote:On May 23 2013 19:48 Fionn wrote:
Soulkey vs. Innovation final.
Welcome to the Revenge of the Nerds final. Stars and STX get their time in the sun.
Can you name the last OSL/MSL champions for STX and Stars respectively? Calm and GGplay? correct Calm > Kwanro in the WORST final of all-time GGplay > Iris in the BEST final of all-time lol I remember G1 of Calm vs Kwanro 5-Pool + double Sunken Colony vs. 12 Hatch and Calm held it by beating up everything with his drones and one Sunken standard Kwanro game Haha lol. Symbol's games today reminded me of the glorious Kwan flow chart. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=110336
There was something similar (not a chart, but images) about some BW Protoss always going proxy 2 gate, does anyone know where I can find it?
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
Left after game 4, so glad Bogus won in the end.
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On May 23 2013 20:01 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Sniper vs HyuN is the most underrated finals because I think I may have been the only person that watched it and it actually wasn't that bad
could be because I was cheering for Sniper
I'd have a lot to say about that, but talking bad of sniper got me a 2 week ban last time 
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Wow INnoVation man, was the games 1 sided?
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On May 23 2013 19:53 FlyingTurtle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 19:51 ZenithM wrote:On May 23 2013 19:49 FlyingTurtle wrote:On May 23 2013 19:47 ZenithM wrote:On May 23 2013 19:46 Zealously wrote:
Wow, people are so mad around here - there is nothing wrong with playing to your strenghts - there is no "honorable play" in a GSL semifinal, holy shit. There is no honorable play, but there is skillful play :p Like what Innovation is doing. Symbol won the two games he did with skill. Reading and countering your opponent is a type of skill too. Or you know, it could just be the classic hope-based cheese. Nothing wrong or dishonorable with that. Nor especially skillful, mind you. He reacted to Innovation's tendency to open 3CC without extra defenses. He also figured out that macro games are Innovation's strength and he would thus avoid playing into that. Strategy is skill.
yeah, but there's a point in time where 5 consecutive all-ins (of various types) gets old.
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On May 23 2013 19:57 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 19:50 Fionn wrote:On May 23 2013 19:49 Mensol wrote:On May 23 2013 19:48 Fionn wrote:
Soulkey vs. Innovation final.
Welcome to the Revenge of the Nerds final. Stars and STX get their time in the sun.
Can you name the last OSL/MSL champions for STX and Stars respectively? Calm and GGplay? correct Calm > Kwanro in the WORST final of all-time GGplay > Iris in the BEST final of all-time lol I remember G1 of Calm vs Kwanro 5-Pool + double Sunken Colony vs. 12 Hatch and Calm held it by beating up everything with his drones and one Sunken
I remember when Jaedong made the same 5 pool build and win vs Calm.
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On May 23 2013 20:33 shadymmj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 19:53 FlyingTurtle wrote:On May 23 2013 19:51 ZenithM wrote:On May 23 2013 19:49 FlyingTurtle wrote:On May 23 2013 19:47 ZenithM wrote:On May 23 2013 19:46 Zealously wrote:
Wow, people are so mad around here - there is nothing wrong with playing to your strenghts - there is no "honorable play" in a GSL semifinal, holy shit. There is no honorable play, but there is skillful play :p Like what Innovation is doing. Symbol won the two games he did with skill. Reading and countering your opponent is a type of skill too. Or you know, it could just be the classic hope-based cheese. Nothing wrong or dishonorable with that. Nor especially skillful, mind you. He reacted to Innovation's tendency to open 3CC without extra defenses. He also figured out that macro games are Innovation's strength and he would thus avoid playing into that. Strategy is skill. yeah, but there's a point in time where 5 consecutive all-ins (of various types) gets old.
Well i guess comparison to Kwanro is not that off.
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On May 23 2013 20:13 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 20:04 BlazeFury01 wrote:On May 23 2013 20:00 Assirra wrote:On May 23 2013 19:59 BlazeFury01 wrote:On May 23 2013 19:54 Zealously wrote:On May 23 2013 19:53 Douillos wrote:On May 23 2013 19:52 StimMarine wrote:
A little off-topic but what happened to IM-MVP anyway? Sorry just got back to sc2 recently. Kespa. "Kespa" is a weird way to spell "wrists" His "wrists" didn't stop him from competing in WCS, MLG or IEM. At this point using the "wrists" card is an over statement. If you ever read his interviews where he talked about it, you know its not an overstatement. I do read his interviews. My point is that people make it like every loss he receives is only because of his "wrists" and that's ridiculous. Also, it still doesn't change the fact that he competed in those tournaments regardless of his "wrists". Nor does it change the fact that he looks like, and I say this with the utmost respect for Mvp and his accomplishments, shit compared to how he used to play. He's a much more intelligent player now than before his injury, but he's visibly hurting at times and it isn't hard to make see in his play, especially during more intense games.
This x100. If you know what skill looks like, and bothered to watch him in his old form, you'd know how his wrists are completely a legitimate problem. You'd also know we haven't seen play as good as his peak in SC2 until the recent coming of players like Life and Innovation. Win or loose, if you know the game well, you see how well someone is playing. Comparatively, even if he somehow fell off the meta with hots (still doesn't explain WoL) it wouldn't even begin to explain the ability he tends to lack (or as a card he is afraid play, due to his condition). He is smart, smarter than most, and plays to his strengths. And he knows right now, it's not necessarily his mechanics at times, IMO.
/endlrderail
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terrible series all-around. At least we have SK vs bogus as the finals.
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On May 23 2013 20:32 prOxySC2 wrote:
Wow INnoVation man, was the games 1 sided?
When Inno didn't play greedy and get killed by Roach/Baneling, yes they were
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so what's this Bingo you guys were talking about? I must have missed it.
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On May 23 2013 20:42 Lunareste wrote:
so what's this Bingo you guys were talking about? I must have missed it.
![[image loading]](http://milfotos.org/images/88a420401db847006149e46b103fb02a.png)
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Symbol cant beat innovation without all in lol
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On May 23 2013 20:47 liberate71 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 20:42 Lunareste wrote:
so what's this Bingo you guys were talking about? I must have missed it.
Oh that is precious.
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France9034 Posts
INnoVation getting the job done.
Thanks for giving us a wonderful finals match-up !
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On May 23 2013 11:54 gobbledydook wrote: (1959) INnoVation 0-0 Symbol (1932)
-------------------------------------------------
6.87% 4-0 0-4 5.67%
13.41% 4-1 1-4 11.62%
16.36% 4-2 2-4 14.87%
15.97% 4-3 3-4 15.22%
-------------------------------------------------
52.62% 47.38%
Median outcome: INnoVation 4-3 Symbol Surprisingly close match if you believe Aligulac. I still think Innovation 4-0 Symbol tho.
I like how the highest % score was what actually happened... lol Aligulac actually is better at predicting than the rest of us. Only 6.9% for a 4-0 and we all called 4-0. LOL
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On May 23 2013 20:35 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 20:33 shadymmj wrote:On May 23 2013 19:53 FlyingTurtle wrote:On May 23 2013 19:51 ZenithM wrote:On May 23 2013 19:49 FlyingTurtle wrote:On May 23 2013 19:47 ZenithM wrote:On May 23 2013 19:46 Zealously wrote:
Wow, people are so mad around here - there is nothing wrong with playing to your strenghts - there is no "honorable play" in a GSL semifinal, holy shit. There is no honorable play, but there is skillful play :p Like what Innovation is doing. Symbol won the two games he did with skill. Reading and countering your opponent is a type of skill too. Or you know, it could just be the classic hope-based cheese. Nothing wrong or dishonorable with that. Nor especially skillful, mind you. He reacted to Innovation's tendency to open 3CC without extra defenses. He also figured out that macro games are Innovation's strength and he would thus avoid playing into that. Strategy is skill. yeah, but there's a point in time where 5 consecutive all-ins (of various types) gets old. Well i guess comparison to Kwanro is not that off.
Game 6 wasn't an all-in, but more of a "kahldor pressure" move. If he don't sucide all his army between the natural and the third he's kinda ok (even if he could have at least killed teh scvs of the third).
He had a decent economy and a decent tech behind it..
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On May 23 2013 20:36 Vansetsu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 20:13 Zealously wrote:On May 23 2013 20:04 BlazeFury01 wrote:On May 23 2013 20:00 Assirra wrote:On May 23 2013 19:59 BlazeFury01 wrote:On May 23 2013 19:54 Zealously wrote:On May 23 2013 19:53 Douillos wrote:On May 23 2013 19:52 StimMarine wrote:
A little off-topic but what happened to IM-MVP anyway? Sorry just got back to sc2 recently. Kespa. "Kespa" is a weird way to spell "wrists" His "wrists" didn't stop him from competing in WCS, MLG or IEM. At this point using the "wrists" card is an over statement. If you ever read his interviews where he talked about it, you know its not an overstatement. I do read his interviews. My point is that people make it like every loss he receives is only because of his "wrists" and that's ridiculous. Also, it still doesn't change the fact that he competed in those tournaments regardless of his "wrists". Nor does it change the fact that he looks like, and I say this with the utmost respect for Mvp and his accomplishments, shit compared to how he used to play. He's a much more intelligent player now than before his injury, but he's visibly hurting at times and it isn't hard to make see in his play, especially during more intense games. This x100. If you know what skill looks like, and bothered to watch him in his old form, you'd know how his wrists are completely a legitimate problem. You'd also know we haven't seen play as good as his peak in SC2 until the recent coming of players like Life and Innovation. Win or loose, if you know the game well, you see how well someone is playing. Comparatively, even if he somehow fell off the meta with hots (still doesn't explain WoL) it wouldn't even begin to explain the ability he tends to lack (or as a card he is afraid play, due to his condition). He is smart, smarter than most, and plays to his strengths. And he knows right now, it's not necessarily his mechanics at times, IMO. /endlrderail
I watched his old form and also added into the equation the opponents his old form was against. Those caliber of players don't rival the competition we have today. Keep in mind, MVP was the best Kespa player to transition to SC2 around that time which gave him a considerable edge against opponents who didn't have that type of experience. I can further supplement my statement by asking how many players who won the GSLs prior to 2012 were ex-Brood War players or specifically which players dominated that era? MVP's domination was a perfect example of what it would have looked like if Kespa had transitioned around the same time because there were a lot of players that were equivalent or much better than MVP. I believe stating that he's smarter than most is an overstatement and blind fanboyism unless "most" is "foreigners".
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On May 23 2013 21:06 RyLai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 11:54 gobbledydook wrote: (1959) INnoVation 0-0 Symbol (1932)
-------------------------------------------------
6.87% 4-0 0-4 5.67%
13.41% 4-1 1-4 11.62%
16.36% 4-2 2-4 14.87%
15.97% 4-3 3-4 15.22%
-------------------------------------------------
52.62% 47.38%
Median outcome: INnoVation 4-3 Symbol Surprisingly close match if you believe Aligulac. I still think Innovation 4-0 Symbol tho. I like how the highest % score was what actually happened... lol Aligulac actually is better at predicting than the rest of us. Only 6.9% for a 4-0 and we all called 4-0. LOL
Aligulac never predicts 4-0 kinda because you need a rediculous point difference to have that as median outcome. Especially if you meet in later stages of GSL that is very unlikely as both players have ranked quite a bit of points just getting there and won't be too far off probably.
The whole underlying assumption that each game result itself is independent can be questioned though making 4-0's more likely than in Aligulac's world
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EPT
