On March 04 2013 17:39 NB wrote: wow u guys.... i know the hope is low but to make a thread this late .... WE ARE THE FAITH IN EGTL?
edit: OP is a good guy today
The informal LR team cannot do everything even though nowadays they put pre-made LRs, it's like a dream world. Updating isn't that much of an hassle anyway. I was molded by LP live updating ...
Feel free to write a live report, I'll include it !
I guess it wasn't bad after all for the people who traded for paralyze expecting Stephano to be on a plane and get a free win but then didn't realize that Stephano was actually playing
On March 04 2013 17:51 NB wrote: -_-..... i am being brain washed by the casters: they lead me to believe that Fro-toss was hugely behind before the final battle
mb you should check your ears. cause saying he has a big supply lead and stephanos tech is not rdy doesn't sound like them saying the toss is behind.
On March 04 2013 17:51 NB wrote: -_-..... i am being brain washed by the casters: they lead me to believe that Fro-toss was hugely behind before the final battle
yeah, same :/ and then, he is totally crushed. who come he had so few? just because of the delay at the start?
Seems like 2 month in korea is too much for Steph, he's playing worse and worse since his code S group is over, he really doesn't enjoy staying there, pretty sure he'll forfeit the next code S season.
On March 04 2013 17:52 Big-t wrote: Didn´t really understand why stephano lost. Because of the bad engagement on his 4th? I think he played solid up to this point.
I guess he shouldn't have taken that fight. Most of his spines were somewhere else and his corruptors were late. If he sacked his 4th to buy time and tried to defend up the ramp on his 3rd, the game would go on. He would be behind, but his hive army would be almost ready, so it still would be a winnable position.
Also, the timings were a bit messed up that game compared to a standard ZvP, since Stephano got his expansion delayed by a minute because of pylon blocks, while Paralize got a 8:30 third. This made Paralize pre-BL push a lot stronger than usual.
On March 04 2013 17:56 Nelz wrote: Seems like 2 month in korea is too much for Steph, he's playing worse and worse since his code S group is over, he really doesn't enjoy staying there, pretty sure he'll forfeit the next code S season.
Everyone who has spent significant time in korea has said that you play worse before you get better. You don't just go to korea and magically improve, often in order to rework your game you will end up losing more as you figure new things out. 2 months in korea is not a long time. If Stephano cared enough to stay in korea for half a year or more then we might see a whole new level of his play, but I doubt he is willing to go through with that.
On March 04 2013 17:56 Nelz wrote: Seems like 2 month in korea is too much for Steph, he's playing worse and worse since his code S group is over, he really doesn't enjoy staying there, pretty sure he'll forfeit the next code S season.
Everyone who has spent significant time in korea has said that you play worse before you get better. You don't just go to korea and magically improve, often in order to rework your game you will end up losing more as you figure new things out. 2 months in korea is not a long time. If Stephano cared enough to stay in korea for half a year or more then we might see a whole new level of his play, but I doubt he is willing to go through with that.
Yea i remember reading/hearing about that too. After the flaws in your play are exposed by the Koreans your game just kinda breaks down until you can build it back up the right way.
On March 04 2013 17:56 Nelz wrote: Seems like 2 month in korea is too much for Steph, he's playing worse and worse since his code S group is over, he really doesn't enjoy staying there, pretty sure he'll forfeit the next code S season.
Everyone who has spent significant time in korea has said that you play worse before you get better. You don't just go to korea and magically improve, often in order to rework your game you will end up losing more as you figure new things out. 2 months in korea is not a long time. If Stephano cared enough to stay in korea for half a year or more then we might see a whole new level of his play, but I doubt he is willing to go through with that.
Yea i remember reading/hearing about that too. After the flaws in your play are exposed by the Koreans your game just kinda breaks down until you can build it back up the right way.
well he is in EG-TL. so it's not like that at all for him.
On March 04 2013 17:56 Nelz wrote: Seems like 2 month in korea is too much for Steph, he's playing worse and worse since his code S group is over, he really doesn't enjoy staying there, pretty sure he'll forfeit the next code S season.
Everyone who has spent significant time in korea has said that you play worse before you get better. You don't just go to korea and magically improve, often in order to rework your game you will end up losing more as you figure new things out. 2 months in korea is not a long time. If Stephano cared enough to stay in korea for half a year or more then we might see a whole new level of his play, but I doubt he is willing to go through with that.
Yea i remember reading/hearing about that too. After the flaws in your play are exposed by the Koreans your game just kinda breaks down until you can build it back up the right way.
Stephano is more of a Violet type, I think he actually plays better when he's not in Korea.
ParalyzE might be better than Trust and Lure and Stephano didn't exactly look great in his Up and Down matches besides that 1 engagement vs Lure. He almost threw the other game
Okay, okay, so to try to be a bit less negative. I guess that the Void Ray saw the OLs loading up and started to fire on them (?) and that prompted him to go for the fastest route. That area he loaded up in was probably the easiest to stage the attack but he just got spotted by the air.
On March 04 2013 18:11 ne4aJIb wrote: wtf zenio! if you drop, why you drop from entrance?! why not on main directly? t_t no will to win.
cuz phoenix would have killed about 2 full ovies until he was able to reposition them. if he tries to unload units and walk them around then rain has more than enough time to get canons up everywhere or units and the drop still fails. he had to go.
I'm honestly beginning to feel we lack a place where the really big boys fight. Maybe in the future after all expansions have been released. There are too many mediocre players nowadays that just really have no idea what to do and fumble stupid all-ins. Can't blame them, but it just makes me eat my knuckles out of frustration. ;;~''
just standard play from rain and zenio went full genius and dropped on top of cannons instead of bypassing them which is what i thought the point of dropping was.
On March 04 2013 18:13 fartosis77 wrote: I'm honestly beginning to feel we lack a place where the really big boys fight. Maybe in the future after all expansions have been released. There are too many mediocre players nowadays that just really have no idea what to do and fumble stupid all-ins. Can't blame them, but it just makes me eat my knuckles out of frustration. ;;~''
On March 04 2013 18:32 mrRoflpwn wrote: I dont understand how stephano lost his ZvP after beating 2 protosses like 2 hours ago
Kespa just prepares too good for proleague
I don't think hwanni is the problem, I think it's a lack of a dedicated preparation coaching team, that searches vods, analyze matches and helps the player prepare for the opponents.
Will Taeja fall to further cement EGTL's getting AK'd twice in a row? Or will Fantasy fall to secure the biggest individual player losing streak (I believe) in pro league?
On March 04 2013 18:34 Haee wrote: This upcoming match excites me.
Will Taeja fall to further cement EGTL's second AK in a row? Or will Fantasy fall to secure the biggest individual player losing streak (I believe) in pro league?
History in the making, this day will be remembered regardless of the outcome!
On March 04 2013 18:33 Tachion wrote: What's the longest losing streak ever for a team? Is EG-TL close to it? I think they're at least like 0-11 right now in individual games.
That would be interesting to know. Is Harem around here somewhere? Waxangel??
On March 04 2013 18:33 Tachion wrote: What's the longest losing streak ever for a team? Is EG-TL close to it? I think they're at least like 0-11 right now in individual games.
That would be interesting to know. Is Harem around here somewhere? Waxangel??
Looked it up and EG-TL is actually on a 14 game losing streak right now.
On March 04 2013 18:33 Tachion wrote: What's the longest losing streak ever for a team? Is EG-TL close to it? I think they're at least like 0-11 right now in individual games.
The weird thing is, this week marks the end of Round 3. Out of 6. Proleague is actually so long that this is literally only half of the season. Absolutely ANYTHING could happen in terms of results before the playoffs come. I'm gonna wait it out and see.
And if EGTL continues to underperform, well, that's all right, I'll just follow the Korean teams as always
If LGIM loses some important matches they even excuse to their fans and promise to practice even harder. TL now 0-1X and they just keep on doing the same procedure. I dont see any change. I dont see any interaction with the fans...
On March 04 2013 18:33 Tachion wrote: What's the longest losing streak ever for a team? Is EG-TL close to it? I think they're at least like 0-11 right now in individual games.
That would be interesting to know. Is Harem around here somewhere? Waxangel??
Looked it up and EG-TL is actually on a 14 game losing streak right now.
Yeah thats pretty nasty. I'm more curious if that's nearing any records though
On March 04 2013 18:33 Tachion wrote: What's the longest losing streak ever for a team? Is EG-TL close to it? I think they're at least like 0-11 right now in individual games.
That would be interesting to know. Is Harem around here somewhere? Waxangel??
Looked it up and EG-TL is actually on a 14 game losing streak right now.
Yeah thats pretty nasty. I'm more curious if that's nearing any records though
Defending all three entrances on that map has to be hell. You'd probably be better off moving your army out towards the middle for defense and rely on turrets or something to stop backdoor drops at the side expansions.
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
This is not rocket science, i think we all know what the difference is between EG-TL and Kespa teams and its not skill, its called DEDICATION. Like seriously, it's their job, they get paid to do it, and it just feels like they're not taking it seriously enough, i get it, its a game, but for them its not.
On March 04 2013 18:57 Fionn wrote: I'm not saying the coach is the problem, but if you lose sixteen maps in a row, maybe it's time for a coaching change.
It's quite spectacular they've lost sixteen games in a row. Feels like it should be impossible to not pick up a win in one of sixteen tries.
I don't think coaches can fix things like a player not seeing a nydus in their vision, its just really bad play.
On March 04 2013 18:55 Yhamm wrote: they just lost 16 maps in a row... unbelievable
Pretty sure it's 15. They went 1-4 4 matches ago with stephano winning the first game. Starting with that match it would be 0-3, then 3 more straight 0-4's would make it 0-15
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
On March 04 2013 18:55 Yhamm wrote: they just lost 16 maps in a row... unbelievable
Pretty sure it's 15. They went 1-4 4 matches ago with stephano winning the first game. Starting with that match it would be 0-3, then 3 more straight 0-4's would make it 0-15
On March 04 2013 18:57 Fionn wrote: I'm not saying the coach is the problem, but if you lose sixteen maps in a row, maybe it's time for a coaching change.
It's quite spectacular they've lost sixteen games in a row. Feels like it should be impossible to not pick up a win in one of sixteen tries.
The coaches can only do so much... To me, and i think everyone else's, it feels like its a player dedication issue. There must be a reason why some Korean players wanted to join foreign teams, and i don't think it's only because of the money, but also because they're "easier" on them, you don't have to practice as much, etc.
On March 04 2013 18:55 Yhamm wrote: they just lost 16 maps in a row... unbelievable
Pretty sure it's 15. They went 1-4 4 matches ago with stephano winning the first game. Starting with that match it would be 0-3, then 3 more straight 0-4's would make it 0-15
Well if Stephano won the first game, it does mean it's 0-16, doesn't it? First match went 1-0 to 1-4.
Really sad times for EG/TL. HoTS should change quite a few things though.
On March 04 2013 18:55 Yhamm wrote: they just lost 16 maps in a row... unbelievable
Pretty sure it's 15. They went 1-4 4 matches ago with stephano winning the first game. Starting with that match it would be 0-3, then 3 more straight 0-4's would make it 0-15
If they won the first game in a 1-4 loss, they lost 4 games in a row that series, not 3
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
you're just cherry picking.
CJ hero couldn't even get out of Code B, GSL must be so much better!
let's see how long we can play this game. or let's not.
On March 04 2013 18:55 Yhamm wrote: they just lost 16 maps in a row... unbelievable
Pretty sure it's 15. They went 1-4 4 matches ago with stephano winning the first game. Starting with that match it would be 0-3, then 3 more straight 0-4's would make it 0-15
Well if Stephano won the first game, it does mean it's 0-16, doesn't it? First match went 1-0 to 1-4.
Really sad times for EG/TL. HoTS should change quite a few things though.
again, for how long would it change things? several rounds, same situation was in WoL, after all other PL teams catch up it shall be just another disappointment. It is not the game's fault, it is the fault of determination
On March 04 2013 18:55 Yhamm wrote: they just lost 16 maps in a row... unbelievable
Pretty sure it's 15. They went 1-4 4 matches ago with stephano winning the first game. Starting with that match it would be 0-3, then 3 more straight 0-4's would make it 0-15
Well if Stephano won the first game, it does mean it's 0-16, doesn't it? First match went 1-0 to 1-4.
Really sad times for EG/TL. HoTS should change quite a few things though.
Guys he is saying the LAST 16 games. If you count that stephano win it is 1-16 in the last 4 matches... still 16 game loss in a row because Stephano won the first map of the first of these 4 matches. EDIT: 1-16
On March 04 2013 18:55 Yhamm wrote: they just lost 16 maps in a row... unbelievable
Pretty sure it's 15. They went 1-4 4 matches ago with stephano winning the first game. Starting with that match it would be 0-3, then 3 more straight 0-4's would make it 0-15
On March 04 2013 18:57 CSSolutionstv wrote: This is not rocket science, i think we all know what the difference is between EG-TL and Kespa teams and its not skill, its called DEDICATION. Like seriously, it's their job, they get paid to do it, and it just feels like they're not taking it seriously enough, i get it, its a game, but for them its not.
I don't know if I agree with that. I really don't think that any member if EG-TL feels like starcraft is just a game and more or less than the kespa players. Okay, well maybe not any member of EG-TL, but I would say most take it very seriously and are extremely dedicated. To say they are not is somewhat offensive.
On March 04 2013 18:33 Tachion wrote: What's the longest losing streak ever for a team? Is EG-TL close to it? I think they're at least like 0-11 right now in individual games.
That would be interesting to know. Is Harem around here somewhere? Waxangel??
Looked it up and EG-TL is actually on a 14 game losing streak right now.
Wait games right not matches? Their last match win was so long ago this reminds me of season 1 samsung khan who lost like every match in the first round? Ug really hope EGTL can bounce back in hots...
I mean I tabbed from my game after like an hour and it was already over T_T
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
Oh wait, 5 > 3. Dat math. Finals 1 = 1. more math.
The only "esF" code S player that we've seen in Proleague is Taeja. Hero is not code S now.
I dont care if its the players fault or not, the fact is that you cant fire 5 players. Thats why the coach gets fired when the team sucks. The results are not acceptable and some needs to happen. They need new coaches and a fresh start
On March 04 2013 18:57 CSSolutionstv wrote: This is not rocket science, i think we all know what the difference is between EG-TL and Kespa teams and its not skill, its called DEDICATION. Like seriously, it's their job, they get paid to do it, and it just feels like they're not taking it seriously enough, i get it, its a game, but for them its not.
I don't know if I agree with that. I really don't think that any member if EG-TL feels like starcraft is just a game and more or less than the kespa players. Okay, well maybe not any member of EG-TL, but I would say most take it very seriously and are extremely dedicated. To say they are not is somewhat offensive.
They lose 0-4 all the time, if they lost 4-1, 4-2, 4-3 we could see the dedication and believe that guys try their best. Now it all looks like farce and we are the naive fans.
On March 04 2013 18:33 Tachion wrote: What's the longest losing streak ever for a team? Is EG-TL close to it? I think they're at least like 0-11 right now in individual games.
That would be interesting to know. Is Harem around here somewhere? Waxangel??
Looked it up and EG-TL is actually on a 14 game losing streak right now.
Wait games right not matches? Their last match win was so long ago this reminds me of season 1 samsung khan who lost like every match in the first round? Ug really hope EGTL can bounce back in hots...
I mean I tabbed from my game after like an hour and it was already over T_T
They're 1-7 in the last 8 matches. edit: winning 8 maps over that time.
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
Oh wait, 5 > 3. Dat math. Finals 1 = 1. more math.
The only "esF" code S player that we've seen in Proleague is Taeja. Hero is not code S now.
So every player who is not from KeSPA is an eSF player, then I guess I am eSF player, you are also. Then, average KeSPA players are so much better than eSF players according to your logic.
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
Oh wait, 5 > 3. Dat math. Finals 1 = 1. more math.
The only "esF" code S player that we've seen in Proleague is Taeja. Hero is not code S now.
So every player who is not from KeSPA is an eSF player, then I guess I am eSF player, you are also. Then, average KeSPA players are so much better than eSF players according to your logic.
Oh, true, it's 5am. mc, taeja, and parting are aren't esf so 3 > 2 unless you want to count mc as LG-IM. I guess Kespa > esF, how sad.
On March 04 2013 18:57 CSSolutionstv wrote: This is not rocket science, i think we all know what the difference is between EG-TL and Kespa teams and its not skill, its called DEDICATION. Like seriously, it's their job, they get paid to do it, and it just feels like they're not taking it seriously enough, i get it, its a game, but for them its not.
I don't know if I agree with that. I really don't think that any member if EG-TL feels like starcraft is just a game and more or less than the kespa players. Okay, well maybe not any member of EG-TL, but I would say most take it very seriously and are extremely dedicated. To say they are not is somewhat offensive.
They lose 0-4 all the time, if they lost 4-1, 4-2, 4-3 we could see the dedication and believe that guys try their best. Now it all looks like farce and we are the naive fans.
Obviously EG-TL is one of the weaker teams in the league. They never were doing well. But for a while they were putting up a fight. I don't think that since then they lost any dedication since then, at this point it's kinda just bad luck and possible bad coaching or any other number of factors. I think saying they aren't dedicated and think of it as just a game is pretty far fetched.
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
Oh wait, 5 > 3. Dat math. Finals 1 = 1. more math.
The only "esF" code S player that we've seen in Proleague is Taeja. Hero is not code S now.
So every player who is not from KeSPA is an eSF player, then I guess I am eSF player, you are also. Then, average KeSPA players are so much better than eSF players according to your logic.
Umm, 4 of them are eSF players and Parting basically is an eSF player. Edit: He lost anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
Oh wait, 5 > 3. Dat math. Finals 1 = 1. more math.
The only "esF" code S player that we've seen in Proleague is Taeja. Hero is not code S now.
So every player who is not from KeSPA is an eSF player, then I guess I am eSF player, you are also. Then, average KeSPA players are so much better than eSF players according to your logic.
Umm, 4 of them are eSF players and Parting basically is an eSF player.
Taeja is on TL. Mc on SK (partnered with LG-IM and plays with them in team leagues though so I dunno, still not esf though). Parting on SKT1, more eSF than Kespa though I suppose. Only Azubu.Symbol and curious are eSF.
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
Oh wait, 5 > 3. Dat math. Finals 1 = 1. more math.
The only "esF" code S player that we've seen in Proleague is Taeja. Hero is not code S now.
So every player who is not from KeSPA is an eSF player, then I guess I am eSF player, you are also. Then, average KeSPA players are so much better than eSF players according to your logic.
Umm, 4 of them are eSF players and Parting basically is an eSF player. Edit: He lost anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
I think that is an interesting point, you see foreigner Koreans decline because not by any curse but because their training is so much less restrictive and strenuous. It must feel like an Amish at Rumspring in comparison especially poolside at the EG house in sunny AZ.
Asia is a weird place. Did you see China builds skyscrapers because of government just creating jobs for people, middle class Chinese buy homes just for investment you have empty cities and 20 million homeless. Also nobody lives in a place almost as developed as Manhattan.
Random thought I know but my point is Asians are crazy, notice how in the videos almost none have girlfriends none have time. We always wonder why they are so awkward on stage how many even have social time with humans?
I hope this isn't coming off as player bashing I am just saying nobody could ever match Korean work ethics. Their culture is intense which is why they develop such phenomenal talent. As Iron sharpens Iron.
On March 04 2013 19:03 GWdeathscythe wrote: Guys he is saying the LAST 16 games. If you count that stephano win it is 1-16 in the last 4 matches... still 16 game loss in a row because Stephano won the first map of the first of these 4 matches. EDIT: 1-16
I still don't get the point of having players like Zenio, JYP or Puma within one of the hardest teamleague competitions when they don't even have any good foreign results lately (2012 to now). Every EG-TL loss is no surprise to me, on the contrary. It needs more than Stephano and TaeJa to carry. HerO is no more on top of his game, and the rest of the roster feels like a solid MLG group stage, not like a ProLeague roster. EG-TL really has to change some players or leave the competition. Sorry.
On March 04 2013 19:14 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: I think that is an interesting point, you see foreigner Koreans decline because not by any curse but because their training is so much less restrictive and strenuous. It must feel like an Amish at Rumspring in comparison especially poolside at the EG house in sunny AZ.
Asia is a weird place. Did you see China builds skyscrapers because of government just creating jobs for people, middle class Chinese buy homes just for investment you have empty cities and 20 million homeless. Also nobody lives in a place almost as developed as Manhattan.
Random thought I know but my point is Asians are crazy, notice how in the videos almost none have girlfriends none have time. We always wonder why they are so awkward on stage how many even have social time with humans?
I hope this isn't coming off as player bashing I am just saying nobody could ever match Korean work ethics. Their culture is intense which is why they develop such phenomenal talent. As Iron sharpens Iron.
You realize this is because they're computer nerds right?
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
Oh wait, 5 > 3. Dat math. Finals 1 = 1. more math.
The only "esF" code S player that we've seen in Proleague is Taeja. Hero is not code S now.
Well if we're playing this game, So far there will be 7 Kespa players in Code S next season(counting Parting) out of 21 players. That means there is 14 esF players. Also, even if all kespa players get through the up and downs, there can only be 7 more of them to advance making it to 14 Kespa players and 1 more esF player. Making it 15-14 for esF and that's the best case scenario for Kespa players
Using your logic, and seeing how GSL Code S is the hardest tournament, esF player must be better players! -_-
You guys are seriously trying to do anything you can to make him feel bad about his post. He meant ESF because they play in GSL, like Fionn said, ESF is basically Gom. I agree with him, that technically they arent on an esf team, however, they're playing in an ESF tournament.
On March 04 2013 18:55 Yhamm wrote: they just lost 16 maps in a row... unbelievable
Pretty sure it's 15. They went 1-4 4 matches ago with stephano winning the first game. Starting with that match it would be 0-3, then 3 more straight 0-4's would make it 0-15
Well if Stephano won the first game, it does mean it's 0-16, doesn't it? First match went 1-0 to 1-4.
Really sad times for EG/TL. HoTS should change quite a few things though.
again, for how long would it change things? several rounds, same situation was in WoL, after all other PL teams catch up it shall be just another disappointment. It is not the game's fault, it is the fault of determination
I agree to some extent. But sometimes a new challenge can help a lot in bringing changes.
On March 04 2013 19:14 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: I think that is an interesting point, you see foreigner Koreans decline because not by any curse but because their training is so much less restrictive and strenuous. It must feel like an Amish at Rumspring in comparison especially poolside at the EG house in sunny AZ.
Asia is a weird place. Did you see China builds skyscrapers because of government just creating jobs for people, middle class Chinese buy homes just for investment you have empty cities and 20 million homeless. Also nobody lives in a place almost as developed as Manhattan.
Random thought I know but my point is Asians are crazy, notice how in the videos almost none have girlfriends none have time. We always wonder why they are so awkward on stage how many even have social time with humans?
I hope this isn't coming off as player bashing I am just saying nobody could ever match Korean work ethics. Their culture is intense which is why they develop such phenomenal talent. As Iron sharpens Iron.
Alot of them have girlfriends...
They have been playing RTS at the highest competetive level longer than any of the EGTL players. They should dominate. The headstart is gone and now experience plays a role.
Kespa teams are more:
Experienced Prepared Mechanically superior Better synergized teamwise
But there is ''shame'' in it, these teams have been here for so many years.
Like artosis point: I seriously believe most of the losses are just due to EGTL streaming and playing in other tournaments, which gives kespa material to prepare for them. Look at the recent rounds, it isn't that they lose, it is that they lose so QUICKLY.
On March 04 2013 19:03 GWdeathscythe wrote: Guys he is saying the LAST 16 games. If you count that stephano win it is 1-16 in the last 4 matches... still 16 game loss in a row because Stephano won the first map of the first of these 4 matches. EDIT: 1-16
That's exactly what I just said.
I fucked it up because I'm so used to EG-TL only having 4 games per match, that when Stephano wins one I still assume they only have 3 more left to lose! hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa....that's not funny ;(
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
Oh wait, 5 > 3. Dat math. Finals 1 = 1. more math.
The only "esF" code S player that we've seen in Proleague is Taeja. Hero is not code S now.
Well if we're playing this game, So far there will be 7 Kespa players in Code S next season(counting Parting) out of 21 players. That means there is 14 esF players. Also, even if all kespa players get through the up and downs, there can only be 7 more of them to advance making it to 14 Kespa players and 1 more esF player. Making it 15-14 for esF and that's the best case scenario for Kespa players
Using your logic, and seeing how GSL Code S is the hardest tournament, esF player must be better players! -_-
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
Oh wait, 5 > 3. Dat math. Finals 1 = 1. more math.
The only "esF" code S player that we've seen in Proleague is Taeja. Hero is not code S now.
Yes, 5 > 3 (this counts Parting, but whatever), but what does that have to do with anything?
My post was simply remarking on KeSPA players showcasing success in GSL.
Since you might fail in comprehending things (you added a snide comment regarding math, FYI I deal with math a lot since I'm a math major, only fair I point out your ignorance),
I'll break it down for you: KeSPA players are behind in years of experience for SC2 KeSPA players are already breaking into GSL and further (4-5 KeSPA players were in Code S this season, 8-9 are in the up-and-down). Hero is in the Up-and-down this season, he made Round 8 of GSL last time he was Code S, guess who beat him? Rain 3-0.
TaeJa and HerO, despite being highly rated in GSL have not been performing well in Proleague (you can also include JYP/Revival).
Point being: KeSPA players were typically composed of players who > ESF players back in BW. They have better resources. They have the experience. They have the motivation/dedication to train.
I'm certain they can play against loaded teams like ST, FXO, MVP, etc. equally.
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
Oh wait, 5 > 3. Dat math. Finals 1 = 1. more math.
The only "esF" code S player that we've seen in Proleague is Taeja. Hero is not code S now.
Yes, 5 > 3, but what does that have to do with anything?
My post was simply remarking on KeSPA players showcasing success in GSL.
Since you might fail in comprehending things (you added a snide comment regarding math, FYI I deal with math a lot since I'm a math major, only fair I point out your ignorance),
I'll break it down for you: KeSPA players are behind in years of experience for SC2 KeSPA players are already breaking into GSL and further (4-5 KeSPA players were in Code S this season, 8-9 are in the up-and-down). Hero is in the Up-and-down this season, he made Round 8 of GSL last time he was Code S, guess who beat him? Rain 3-0.
TaeJa and HerO, despite being highly rated in GSL have not been performing well in Proleague (you can also include JYP/Revival).
Point being: KeSPA players were typically composed of players who > ESF players back in BW. They have better resources. They have the experience. They have the motivation/dedication to train.
I'm certain they can play against loaded teams like ST, FXO, MVP, etc. equally.
Rofl, what does being a math major have to do with basic arithmetic? You knowing vector calculus has nothing to do with anything. The rest of it I don't particularly care about. Since you are a math major, you should realize the math points to eSF in the GSL regardless of your excuses for their current minority status. Though Roro beating Symbol would change that because #1 is better than #2.
As for what 5 > 3 has to do with anything, 5 is greater than 3 and you said Kespa > eSF, yet since that 5 belongs to the eSF players one would imagine that that actually makes eSF > Kespa. But since we can't truly consider Taeja, Mc, or Parting eSF players then 3 > 2. Though maybe we could consider Parting and Mc both half-eSF so it's 3 = 3. In which case we do not use a greater than or less than sign.
On March 04 2013 19:16 boxerfred wrote: I still don't get the point of having players like Zenio, JYP or Puma within one of the hardest teamleague competitions when they don't even have any good foreign results lately (2012 to now). Every EG-TL loss is no surprise to me, on the contrary. It needs more than Stephano and TaeJa to carry. HerO is no more on top of his game, and the rest of the roster feels like a solid MLG group stage, not like a ProLeague roster. EG-TL really has to change some players or leave the competition. Sorry.
JYP has one of the best records in Proleague out of EG-TL's roster.
Besides, where are these mystery players going to come from? It's not like EG-TL will rapidly improve by deploying Idra, Demuslim, Sheth and TLO, will it? It's not like either team will sign Polt since he's not going back to Korea for a while, either.
Short of some massive player deals happening I don't see either roster changing significantly for a while. Best we can hope for is fortunes changing with HotS.
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
Oh wait, 5 > 3. Dat math. Finals 1 = 1. more math.
The only "esF" code S player that we've seen in Proleague is Taeja. Hero is not code S now.
Yes, 5 > 3, but what does that have to do with anything?
My post was simply remarking on KeSPA players showcasing success in GSL.
Since you might fail in comprehending things (you added a snide comment regarding math, FYI I deal with math a lot since I'm a math major, only fair I point out your ignorance),
I'll break it down for you: KeSPA players are behind in years of experience for SC2 KeSPA players are already breaking into GSL and further (4-5 KeSPA players were in Code S this season, 8-9 are in the up-and-down). Hero is in the Up-and-down this season, he made Round 8 of GSL last time he was Code S, guess who beat him? Rain 3-0.
TaeJa and HerO, despite being highly rated in GSL have not been performing well in Proleague (you can also include JYP/Revival).
Point being: KeSPA players were typically composed of players who > ESF players back in BW. They have better resources. They have the experience. They have the motivation/dedication to train.
I'm certain they can play against loaded teams like ST, FXO, MVP, etc. equally.
Rofl, what does being a math major have to do with basic arithmetic? You knowing vector calculus has nothing to do with anything. The rest of it I don't particularly care about. Since you are a math major, you should realize the math points to eSF in the GSL regardless of your excuses for their current minority status. Though Roro beating Symbol would change that because #1 is better than #2.
Because it means I understand, that obviously 5 > 3, having a grasp of math already under my belt. You made a stupid comment that makes the assumption I don't understand basic arithmetic, I corrected you that I do, as well as higher level math. Just because I list ">" doesn't mean that I was referring to a numeric quantity. Try reading through the context.
Originally the GSL bracket was established with primarily ESF players (a few seeds for KeSPA/foreigners). You expect every KeSPA player to jump in right away? Despite the fact that they have to play through preliminaries (and potentially knock one another out), as well as in the main tournament play against one another?
12 out of 23 of the players who qualified for Code A this season were from KeSPA. 19 out of the players in Code A (not including any of the players in Code S who dropped down) were from KeSPA (20 including BaBy).
Out of those 20, 3 move on directly to Code S, while 10 are in the up-and-down (4 in one group unfortunately). ...and this was the 3rd season of KeSPa participating, out of 14-16 total seasons?
You sure showed me, an ESF established league having "1" more player in the Round of 8 indicates it's superiority, despite KeSPA players only having 4 players in Code S this season (vs 28 non-KeSPA).
EG-TL get's 4-0ed again? What a surprise! Sorry, I really want to see them do well. It is just so sad to watch. Maybe all the Monster is melting the EG player's brains.
On March 04 2013 19:03 Shellshock1122 wrote: wow TaeJa lost to FanTaSy? ouch
Yes? The opposit would have been an upset.
Do you watch this game? Including Proleague? Fantasy has done terribly in sc2.
He might have had a rough time but fantasy is just way more skilled than Taeja.
In BW, yes. In SC2, not even close :D
Yeah, that's why Taeja lost to 8-game losing streak Fantasy. Skill just doesn't count in SC2, right?
I don;t understand anyone in this thread. Kespa players winning a BO1 and all of the sudden they're amazing but when foreigners win BO1's or even a BO3 at foreign events against any korean, they're still shit and just got lucky.
It actually makes absolutely no sense to me. Anyways, I think it was an upset that fantasy won because TaeJa's the one who made it to the RO4 in code S and has some achievements in SC2. Whereas fantasy started out well but is struggling none the less. He didn't particularly impress me today either even with this win.
I feel the most important factor here by far is the format... Proleague is just a completely different ball game than any other tournament. KeSPA players have a huge advantage in that regard because they have been playing that format for ages. You have one map/one opponent to prepare for, and in that setting, very specific preparation seems to be extremely helpful.
However, arguing that most of these KeSPA players are some world beaters is ridiculous. Sure, there are a dozen or so who can legitimately compete in GSL/weekend tournaments, but I seriously doubt your "random KeSPA player" reliably gets through a stacked MLG open bracket, let alone to top8 or whatever. This is actually somewhat proven by how few of them have made it to code A. And these "random KeSPA players" are beating multiple-time weekend tournament champions on EG-TL. It's just the nature of the game.
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
Oh wait, 5 > 3. Dat math. Finals 1 = 1. more math.
The only "esF" code S player that we've seen in Proleague is Taeja. Hero is not code S now.
Yes, 5 > 3, but what does that have to do with anything?
My post was simply remarking on KeSPA players showcasing success in GSL.
Since you might fail in comprehending things (you added a snide comment regarding math, FYI I deal with math a lot since I'm a math major, only fair I point out your ignorance),
I'll break it down for you: KeSPA players are behind in years of experience for SC2 KeSPA players are already breaking into GSL and further (4-5 KeSPA players were in Code S this season, 8-9 are in the up-and-down). Hero is in the Up-and-down this season, he made Round 8 of GSL last time he was Code S, guess who beat him? Rain 3-0.
TaeJa and HerO, despite being highly rated in GSL have not been performing well in Proleague (you can also include JYP/Revival).
Point being: KeSPA players were typically composed of players who > ESF players back in BW. They have better resources. They have the experience. They have the motivation/dedication to train.
I'm certain they can play against loaded teams like ST, FXO, MVP, etc. equally.
Rofl, what does being a math major have to do with basic arithmetic? You knowing vector calculus has nothing to do with anything. The rest of it I don't particularly care about. Since you are a math major, you should realize the math points to eSF in the GSL regardless of your excuses for their current minority status. Though Roro beating Symbol would change that because #1 is better than #2.
Because it means I understand, that obviously 5 > 3, having a grasp of math already under my belt. You made a stupid comment that makes the assumption I don't understand basic arithmetic, I corrected you that I do, as well as higher level math. Just because I list ">" doesn't mean that I was referring to a numeric quantity. Try reading through the context.
Originally the GSL bracket was established with primarily ESF players (a few seeds for KeSPA/foreigners). You expect every KeSPA player to jump in right away? Despite the fact that they have to play through preliminaries (and potentially knock one another out), as well as in the main tournament play against one another?
12 out of 23 of the players who qualified for Code A this season were from KeSPA. 19 out of the players in Code A (not including any of the players in Code S who dropped down) were from KeSPA (20 including BaBy).
Out of those 20, 3 move on directly to Code S, while 10 are in the up-and-down (4 in one group unfortunately). ...and this was the 3rd season of KeSPa participating, out of 14-16 total seasons?
You sure showed me, an ESF established league having "1" more player in the Round of 8 indicates it's superiority, despite KeSPA players only having 4 players in Code S this season (vs 28 non-KeSPA).
That whole code b point works against you. If what you say is true, and KeSPA are better, but their players haven't gotten a chance to get into GSL, then shouldn't all these KeSPA players be owning the code b esf players? Instead 12 KeSPA advanced, 11 esf, which isn't that high considering the number of esf players already in.
On March 04 2013 19:03 Shellshock1122 wrote: wow TaeJa lost to FanTaSy? ouch
Yes? The opposit would have been an upset.
Do you watch this game? Including Proleague? Fantasy has done terribly in sc2.
He might have had a rough time but fantasy is just way more skilled than Taeja.
In BW, yes. In SC2, not even close :D
Yeah, that's why Taeja lost to 8-game losing streak Fantasy. Skill just doesn't count in SC2, right?
I don;t understand anyone in this thread. Kespa players winning a BO1 and all of the sudden they're amazing but when foreigners win BO1's or even a BO3 at foreign events against any korean, they're still shit and just got lucky.
It actually makes absolutely no sense to me. Anyways, I think it was an upset that fantasy won because TaeJa's the one who made it to the RO4 in code S and has some achievements in SC2. Whereas fantasy started out well but is struggling none the less. He didn't particularly impress me today either even with this win.
I'd say that considering it's proleague there isn;t really a favourite
On March 04 2013 19:14 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: I hope this isn't coming off as player bashing I am just saying nobody could ever match Korean work ethics. Their culture is intense which is why they develop such phenomenal talent. As Iron sharpens Iron.
There are plenty of individuals in the western world who are as committed to their profession (and/or passion). It may not be so widespread as it is in Asia, but there will always be exceptional individuals who break the cultural mold and do it regardless.
But there's none of those left in the Starcraft scene - because none of the teams do anything to stimulate or encourage such behavior in their players, even when the players themselves start on the right path and are prepared to commit 100%. Huk and Jinro were the hardest workers in the oGs house when they were doing well, but when they grew a little too relaxed and comfortable, there was nobody to push them to do better and keep working as hard.
On March 04 2013 19:03 Shellshock1122 wrote: wow TaeJa lost to FanTaSy? ouch
Yes? The opposit would have been an upset.
Do you watch this game? Including Proleague? Fantasy has done terribly in sc2.
He might have had a rough time but fantasy is just way more skilled than Taeja.
In BW, yes. In SC2, not even close :D
Yeah, that's why Taeja lost to 8-game losing streak Fantasy. Skill just doesn't count in SC2, right?
What? :D He lost one BO1, and just the other day played in the RO4 in the strongest tournament on the planet, also infested with Zerg who are destroying Terran. That alone trumps anything Fantasy has done in SC2 (that being nothing), so there's no point in listing like a page of his other achievemtns. So Fantasy is "just way more skilled than Taeja" because he beat him in a BO1? HA HA, that's funny as hell :D. And I'm not even a Taeja fan, but this is some seriously next level logic right there :D
On March 04 2013 19:03 Shellshock1122 wrote: wow TaeJa lost to FanTaSy? ouch
Yes? The opposit would have been an upset.
Do you watch this game? Including Proleague? Fantasy has done terribly in sc2.
He might have had a rough time but fantasy is just way more skilled than Taeja.
In BW, yes. In SC2, not even close :D
Yeah, that's why Taeja lost to 8-game losing streak Fantasy. Skill just doesn't count in SC2, right?
What? :D He lost one BO1, and just the other day played in the RO4 in the strongest tournament on the planet, also infested with Zerg who are destroying Terran. That alone trumps anything Fantasy has done in SC2 (that being nothing), so there's no point in listing like a page of his other achievemtns. So Fantasy is "just way more skilled than Taeja" because he beat him in a BO1? HA HA, that's funny as hell :D. And I'm not even a Taeja fan, but this is some seriously next level logic right there :D
What are you talking about, I was acknowledging Taeja is far more skilled than Fantasy, problem is skill just doesn't count.
On March 04 2013 19:03 Shellshock1122 wrote: wow TaeJa lost to FanTaSy? ouch
Yes? The opposit would have been an upset.
Do you watch this game? Including Proleague? Fantasy has done terribly in sc2.
He might have had a rough time but fantasy is just way more skilled than Taeja.
In BW, yes. In SC2, not even close :D
Yeah, that's why Taeja lost to 8-game losing streak Fantasy. Skill just doesn't count in SC2, right?
What? :D He lost one BO1, and just the other day played in the RO4 in the strongest tournament on the planet, also infested with Zerg who are destroying Terran. That alone trumps anything Fantasy has done in SC2 (that being nothing), so there's no point in listing like a page of his other achievemtns. So Fantasy is "just way more skilled than Taeja" because he beat him in a BO1? HA HA, that's funny as hell :D. And I'm not even a Taeja fan, but this is some seriously next level logic right there :D
What are you talking about, I was acknowledging Taeja is far more skilled than Fantasy, problem is skill just doesn't count.
yea, skill doesn't count when one player loses but it's also everything when that same player wins, right? rofl, this is Fantasy son, maybe sc2 isn't his game just yet, but he certainly has more skill than any Esf/foreigner.
Every time someone says "it's a different format" like one important professional game should be less prepped for than multiple important professional games, I want to punch a baby.
Consistency is the nature of professionalism. No excuses.
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
Oh wait, 5 > 3. Dat math. Finals 1 = 1. more math.
The only "esF" code S player that we've seen in Proleague is Taeja. Hero is not code S now.
Yes, 5 > 3, but what does that have to do with anything?
My post was simply remarking on KeSPA players showcasing success in GSL.
Since you might fail in comprehending things (you added a snide comment regarding math, FYI I deal with math a lot since I'm a math major, only fair I point out your ignorance),
I'll break it down for you: KeSPA players are behind in years of experience for SC2 KeSPA players are already breaking into GSL and further (4-5 KeSPA players were in Code S this season, 8-9 are in the up-and-down). Hero is in the Up-and-down this season, he made Round 8 of GSL last time he was Code S, guess who beat him? Rain 3-0.
TaeJa and HerO, despite being highly rated in GSL have not been performing well in Proleague (you can also include JYP/Revival).
Point being: KeSPA players were typically composed of players who > ESF players back in BW. They have better resources. They have the experience. They have the motivation/dedication to train.
I'm certain they can play against loaded teams like ST, FXO, MVP, etc. equally.
Rofl, what does being a math major have to do with basic arithmetic? You knowing vector calculus has nothing to do with anything. The rest of it I don't particularly care about. Since you are a math major, you should realize the math points to eSF in the GSL regardless of your excuses for their current minority status. Though Roro beating Symbol would change that because #1 is better than #2.
Because it means I understand, that obviously 5 > 3, having a grasp of math already under my belt. You made a stupid comment that makes the assumption I don't understand basic arithmetic, I corrected you that I do, as well as higher level math. Just because I list ">" doesn't mean that I was referring to a numeric quantity. Try reading through the context.
Originally the GSL bracket was established with primarily ESF players (a few seeds for KeSPA/foreigners). You expect every KeSPA player to jump in right away? Despite the fact that they have to play through preliminaries (and potentially knock one another out), as well as in the main tournament play against one another?
12 out of 23 of the players who qualified for Code A this season were from KeSPA. 19 out of the players in Code A (not including any of the players in Code S who dropped down) were from KeSPA (20 including BaBy).
Out of those 20, 3 move on directly to Code S, while 10 are in the up-and-down (4 in one group unfortunately). ...and this was the 3rd season of KeSPa participating, out of 14-16 total seasons?
You sure showed me, an ESF established league having "1" more player in the Round of 8 indicates it's superiority, despite KeSPA players only having 4 players in Code S this season (vs 28 non-KeSPA).
you don't understand anything if you think these kinds of statistics mean anything.
skill of players goes much further than who won on what day.
statistics dont factor in luck or other situational things that happen.
plus kespa players started playing when the game was for the most part figured out - it's much easier to learn something that everyone else has figured out already rather than learn a game that was frequently patched, or a game where the metagame shifts in extreme ways.
you're making it seem like these kespa players came in with god tier mechanics and invented some crazy strategies that no one has ever used and obliterated top esf players with them, when the fact is that the kespa players were able to watch vods or tournaments to learn everything from esf players for the most part.
also your original point simply said kespa teams > esf teams.
wouldn't 5 esf players vs 3 kespa players in the ro8 simply mean esf > kespa right now? even if by a bit? the time they have practiced is not relevant.
On March 04 2013 18:54 SniXSniPe wrote: KeSPA teams > ESF teams
In what universe is EG-TL an ESF team?
I didn't say that. I was making an indirect comparison because HerO and TaeJa are Code S level (if not high level Code S) and are getting stomped in a KeSPA league vs a league composed of mostly ESF teams/players.
That comparison is terrible, they're completely different leagues with completely different set-ups, best of series, maps, everything.
Because we haven't been seeing KeSPA players performing very successfully recently in GSL despite focusing on Proleague.
Oh wait, 3 KeSPA players in the Ro8 (not including Parting) for Code S.
Oh wait, 5 > 3. Dat math. Finals 1 = 1. more math.
The only "esF" code S player that we've seen in Proleague is Taeja. Hero is not code S now.
Yes, 5 > 3, but what does that have to do with anything?
My post was simply remarking on KeSPA players showcasing success in GSL.
Since you might fail in comprehending things (you added a snide comment regarding math, FYI I deal with math a lot since I'm a math major, only fair I point out your ignorance),
I'll break it down for you: KeSPA players are behind in years of experience for SC2 KeSPA players are already breaking into GSL and further (4-5 KeSPA players were in Code S this season, 8-9 are in the up-and-down). Hero is in the Up-and-down this season, he made Round 8 of GSL last time he was Code S, guess who beat him? Rain 3-0.
TaeJa and HerO, despite being highly rated in GSL have not been performing well in Proleague (you can also include JYP/Revival).
Point being: KeSPA players were typically composed of players who > ESF players back in BW. They have better resources. They have the experience. They have the motivation/dedication to train.
I'm certain they can play against loaded teams like ST, FXO, MVP, etc. equally.
Rofl, what does being a math major have to do with basic arithmetic? You knowing vector calculus has nothing to do with anything. The rest of it I don't particularly care about. Since you are a math major, you should realize the math points to eSF in the GSL regardless of your excuses for their current minority status. Though Roro beating Symbol would change that because #1 is better than #2.
Because it means I understand, that obviously 5 > 3, having a grasp of math already under my belt. You made a stupid comment that makes the assumption I don't understand basic arithmetic, I corrected you that I do, as well as higher level math. Just because I list ">" doesn't mean that I was referring to a numeric quantity. Try reading through the context.
Originally the GSL bracket was established with primarily ESF players (a few seeds for KeSPA/foreigners). You expect every KeSPA player to jump in right away? Despite the fact that they have to play through preliminaries (and potentially knock one another out), as well as in the main tournament play against one another?
12 out of 23 of the players who qualified for Code A this season were from KeSPA. 19 out of the players in Code A (not including any of the players in Code S who dropped down) were from KeSPA (20 including BaBy).
Out of those 20, 3 move on directly to Code S, while 10 are in the up-and-down (4 in one group unfortunately). ...and this was the 3rd season of KeSPa participating, out of 14-16 total seasons?
You sure showed me, an ESF established league having "1" more player in the Round of 8 indicates it's superiority, despite KeSPA players only having 4 players in Code S this season (vs 28 non-KeSPA).
Why don't you just admit you are bias towards KESPA and call it a day. Anyone can see looking at the GSL that KESPA aren't any better by simply looking at amount of Code S player they have and how terrible they have been at moving up into Code S, notably the up and downs.
PL provides little to the conversation since 99% of the players are KESPA. You should know the insignificance of that data since its math and all.
At the begining: man Eg-TL needs to stop sending foreigners cmon they need to go full korean EG-TL sends korean line up: Cmon man stop sending Puma and JYP they just suck balls, we need Stephano Stephano arrives: man if only we had Taeja, Stephano, Hero, Taeja, Revival, Jaedong would be unstoppable EG-TL gets 4-0'ed again: ouch man these KESPA guys are playing with this format for ages it is not fair
i dont get people saying that EGTL players (some) have different priorities. most of them are not in code S, some are stuck in code a hell, some of them not even in the GSL. what else could they be doing, practising for the internal minesweeper tournament?
On March 04 2013 21:26 renezerg wrote: At the begining: man Eg-TL needs to stop sending foreigners cmon they need to go full korean EG-TL sends korean line up: Cmon man stop sending Puma and JYP they just suck balls, we need Stephano Stephano arrives: man if only we had Taeja, Stephano, Hero, Taeja, Revival, Jaedong would be unstoppable EG-TL gets 4-0'ed again: ouch man these KESPA guys are playing with this format for ages it is not fair
This is just embarrassing
You took four strawmen, merged them into an abominable straw-frankenstein, and destroyed it! Congratulations, you gain +1 internet discourse.
Only Stephano, TaeJa and JYP are pulling their weight. Expected more from Jaedong tbf.
HerO, possibly the most overrated player ever? Expected more from Revival as well, ever since he beat the trio from FXO to win the Evil Geniuses a team league match (Tear, Leenock, Gumiho).
On March 04 2013 19:03 Shellshock1122 wrote: wow TaeJa lost to FanTaSy? ouch
Yes? The opposit would have been an upset.
Do you watch this game? Including Proleague? Fantasy has done terribly in sc2.
He might have had a rough time but fantasy is just way more skilled than Taeja.
In BW, yes. In SC2, not even close :D
Yeah, that's why Taeja lost to 8-game losing streak Fantasy. Skill just doesn't count in SC2, right?
What? :D He lost one BO1, and just the other day played in the RO4 in the strongest tournament on the planet, also infested with Zerg who are destroying Terran. That alone trumps anything Fantasy has done in SC2 (that being nothing), so there's no point in listing like a page of his other achievemtns. So Fantasy is "just way more skilled than Taeja" because he beat him in a BO1? HA HA, that's funny as hell :D. And I'm not even a Taeja fan, but this is some seriously next level logic right there :D
What are you talking about, I was acknowledging Taeja is far more skilled than Fantasy, problem is skill just doesn't count.
yea, skill doesn't count when one player loses but it's also everything when that same player wins, right? rofl, this is Fantasy son, maybe sc2 isn't his game just yet, but he certainly has more skill than any Esf/foreigner.
I think Jaedong's skill will increase with HoTS as the builds favour him much more now. Roach hydra is much more micro intensive, especially against Storm and I think Jaedong is going to be the first player to actually bother to dodge storms (I still can't believe Idra yesterday).
Either way I'm just super happy that SKT and especially my main man Fantasy won <3
On March 04 2013 21:36 Abominous wrote: Only Stephano, TaeJa and JYP are pulling their weight. Expected more from Jaedong tbf.
HerO, possibly the most overrated player ever? Expected more from Revival as well, ever since he beat the trio from FXO to win the Evil Geniuses a team league match (Tear, Leenock, Gumiho).
Well, HerO didn't even get to play today :D Unless you're talking about his general performance.
On March 04 2013 21:36 Abominous wrote: Only Stephano, TaeJa and JYP are pulling their weight. Expected more from Jaedong tbf.
HerO, possibly the most overrated player ever? Expected more from Revival as well, ever since he beat the trio from FXO to win the Evil Geniuses a team league match (Tear, Leenock, Gumiho).
Well, HerO didn't even get to play today :D Unless you're talking about his general performance.
Yeah I'm thinking of the team in general. Stephano is so unpredictable, loses games vs Sola and Paralyze, but beats Effort. Taeja is a bit shaky late with a 3 loss streak, could be explained due to GSL preparation and whatnot.
JYP and HerO are at somewhat same grounds, but by results through the last couple of few months and their careers, that should not be the case.
And ever since Jaedong won 8 man tournament I expected a lot from him, he just started disappointing...
My god EGTL,its like a running joke now. Please forfeit Round 4.
What's bugging me the most is that EG-TL players have the skill level needed to face these opponents,sorry manager but imo its time to go home and stay.
On March 04 2013 22:16 shid0x wrote: My god EGTL,its like a running joke now. Please forfeit Round 4.
What's bugging me the most is that EG-TL players have the skill level needed to face these opponents,sorry manager but imo its time to go home and stay.
You know, before putting all the blame on the manager/coach you might also want to consider that the players may be doing something wrong or are not motivated. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, but blaming everything on the staff being bad because the players have shown good play outside of Proleague seems somewhat strange. And also, EG-TL's current score isn't worse than KHAN's after Round 1, and they were able to come back from that.
It just sucks that they probably won't perform in another Proleague because of these placings. I just didn't want this to be like Liquids short time in GSTL, which is has pretty much turned into. At least they got some wins in Proleague.
On March 04 2013 21:27 shadymmj wrote: i dont get people saying that EGTL players (some) have different priorities. most of them are not in code S, some are stuck in code a hell, some of them not even in the GSL. what else could they be doing, practising for the internal minesweeper tournament?
They probably played a lot more HoTS compare to PL players.
It makes sense to criticize the coaches, because they are grown-ups, while the players are quite young. They don´t have the excuse of immaturity. The players are probably insecure and that´s okay really. But the coaches have to prevent morale from dropping, which they can because they are not the guys in the booths handling the pressure. They have the distance and the experience recognize and oppose bad vibes and feelings of futility, which can turn brilliant players into losers. Calling out the coaches is not necessarily a cheap shot to spare the players. On the contrary, they have important tasks, like motivation, team culture, practice schedules etc. A good coaching team in any sport lets the player focus on their game without worry, doubt, or insecurity. They are practically the parents within the team familiy and if the parents are too lax or uncaring or insecure themselves, then that does not only transfer directly to the players. On top of that they have to handle all the pressure the coaches should lift from them by themselves. And that is - depending on a player´s personality - a huge and unnecessary burden.
Of course, I am not privy to the inner workings of EG-TL, so I can go purely by gathered impressions when saying that I feel the coaches are the core of the problem, because they probably need supervision themselves.
On March 04 2013 22:16 shid0x wrote: My god EGTL,its like a running joke now. Please forfeit Round 4.
What's bugging me the most is that EG-TL players have the skill level needed to face these opponents,sorry manager but imo its time to go home and stay.
Makes sense to stop playing when they change the game, where your team already trained month for while the other teams sticked with WoL to the bitter end. It was basically a lose round 3 win everything round 4 thing going on. And most teams decided on winning round 3 and hope the best for round 4. So will be interesting how that turns out. Of course kespa teams have the player pool to have some HotS B-Teamers.
On March 04 2013 21:27 shadymmj wrote: i dont get people saying that EGTL players (some) have different priorities. most of them are not in code S, some are stuck in code a hell, some of them not even in the GSL. what else could they be doing, practising for the internal minesweeper tournament?
They probably played a lot more HoTS compare to PL players.
It shouldn't be their priority tough and in round 4 i'm 100% sure EGTL will do bad. Not as bad as this round i'm sure else it would be a joke for the amount of time they all have been streaming hots.
Even if they get suddenly super-good for round 4 the other teams in PL will surpass them in no-time because i think overall they have better training conditions, work harder (because of their coach maybe) and all the members from their A-team are better than the bottom half of EGTL (Huk, Thorzain, Zenio, Puma). Major is arguably better than Huk and is a trainee for 8th and i'm sure he will never play a single match in PL while Huk played 2 times.
On March 04 2013 21:27 shadymmj wrote: i dont get people saying that EGTL players (some) have different priorities. most of them are not in code S, some are stuck in code a hell, some of them not even in the GSL. what else could they be doing, practising for the internal minesweeper tournament?
They probably played a lot more HoTS compare to PL players.
I find this rather unlikely. Proleague is also switching to Hots next round, and Proleague teams certainly won't go into it without preparing well in advance. Considering their training regime, the other teams probably played a lot more WoL and HoTS.
There's clearly something very wrong, and morale is probably non-existent for this group. If I were in EGTL's situation, I might consider letting the public know what's going on and why the team is doing so poorly. When you lose 0-4 three times in a row, it may be best to explain the situation to the public rather than let the masses wildly speculate and churn out rumors and wild theories.
now it's really "Every Game They Lose" unlike before where at least they win some games. they're probably not preparing for their specific matches and just ladder.
On March 05 2013 01:36 GunPaladin wrote: This isn't even funny anymore, they might as well throw idra demu and huk in there. At least then the sponsors would be happy.
Idra? Because the only thing worse than losing 0-4 is to lose 0-4 and get disqualified for BM as well :p
On March 05 2013 01:36 GunPaladin wrote: This isn't even funny anymore, they might as well throw idra demu and huk in there. At least then the sponsors would be happy.
Idra? Because the only thing worse than losing 0-4 is to lose 0-4 and get disqualified for BM as well :p
Idra might BM in foreigner events but he knows how to act professional in Korea. In the whole GSL you will always have him gg without any extra commentaries.
On March 05 2013 02:03 Holdenintherye wrote: Sigh... This is getting so depressing to watch. But lets hope that they can turn it around for HoTS
They said that EGTL will turn it around when the all kill format came around. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Taeja got back to Korea. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Stephano arrived in Korea.
The problem isn't external, it's internal. There's a fundamental problem with the team, and until they fix that, expect more showings like this round's.
I've been giving EGTL the benefit of the doubt for a long time now, but I've finally decided I'm allowed to be really disappointed now. This is getting pathetic.
On March 05 2013 01:36 GunPaladin wrote: This isn't even funny anymore, they might as well throw idra demu and huk in there. At least then the sponsors would be happy.
Idra? Because the only thing worse than losing 0-4 is to lose 0-4 and get disqualified for BM as well :p
Idra might BM in foreigner events but he knows how to act professional in Korea. In the whole GSL you will always have him gg without any extra commentaries.
thats because he was trained on CJ Entus B team, with Kespa rulings around : P
On March 04 2013 21:36 Abominous wrote: Only Stephano, TaeJa and JYP are pulling their weight. Expected more from Jaedong tbf.
HerO, possibly the most overrated player ever? Expected more from Revival as well, ever since he beat the trio from FXO to win the Evil Geniuses a team league match (Tear, Leenock, Gumiho).
no one was saying he is the best protoss in the world. I dont know what you mean by overrated. He certainly is a very good player. The most overrated player ever should go to players like.... you know..
On March 04 2013 21:36 Abominous wrote: Only Stephano, TaeJa and JYP are pulling their weight. Expected more from Jaedong tbf.
HerO, possibly the most overrated player ever? Expected more from Revival as well, ever since he beat the trio from FXO to win the Evil Geniuses a team league match (Tear, Leenock, Gumiho).
no one was saying he is the best protoss in the world. I dont know what you mean by overrated. He certainly is a very good player. The most overrated player ever should go to players like.... you know..
This is all thanks that that TL article hyping the team before pro league and declaring domination. Every kespa team has that article printed up on the wall in their house as bulletin board material and they constantly look at it while they practice for their match against eg-tl.
On March 04 2013 21:36 Abominous wrote: Only Stephano, TaeJa and JYP are pulling their weight. Expected more from Jaedong tbf.
HerO, possibly the most overrated player ever? Expected more from Revival as well, ever since he beat the trio from FXO to win the Evil Geniuses a team league match (Tear, Leenock, Gumiho).
no one was saying he is the best protoss in the world. I dont know what you mean by overrated. He certainly is a very good player. The most overrated player ever should go to players like.... you know..
I remember TL predicting him to win his group during Blizzard Cup 2011, and calling him the best Protoss in the world. Then reality happened. :p But that was a long time ago.
To be fair, he's a solid player, and very good Protoss. He used to be overrated, but his results have caught up and the hype has regressed a bit now. I don't think he's overrated anymore, and the community assessment of his skill and ability is roughly accurate nowadays.
In terms of overrated players, pick a random foreign player and 4 out of 5 times that player is probably overrated unfortunately.
On March 05 2013 02:03 Holdenintherye wrote: Sigh... This is getting so depressing to watch. But lets hope that they can turn it around for HoTS
They said that EGTL will turn it around when the all kill format came around. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Taeja got back to Korea. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Stephano arrived in Korea.
The problem isn't external, it's internal. There's a fundamental problem with the team, and until they fix that, expect more showings like this round's.
On March 05 2013 02:03 Holdenintherye wrote: Sigh... This is getting so depressing to watch. But lets hope that they can turn it around for HoTS
They said that EGTL will turn it around when the all kill format came around. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Taeja got back to Korea. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Stephano arrived in Korea.
The problem isn't external, it's internal. There's a fundamental problem with the team, and until they fix that, expect more showings like this round's.
At first I was upset because KT and EG boys kind of ruined my team (less than samsung khan bossing it up tho) but now I'm genuinely amused by these almost pathetic showings of EG-TL.
On March 05 2013 04:01 Poopi wrote: At first I was upset because KT and EG boys kind of ruined my team (less than samsung khan bossing it up tho) but now I'm genuinely amused by these almost pathetic showings of EG-TL.
On March 05 2013 02:03 Holdenintherye wrote: Sigh... This is getting so depressing to watch. But lets hope that they can turn it around for HoTS
They said that EGTL will turn it around when the all kill format came around. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Taeja got back to Korea. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Stephano arrived in Korea.
The problem isn't external, it's internal. There's a fundamental problem with the team, and until they fix that, expect more showings like this round's.
On March 05 2013 03:35 sitromit wrote: They're not a team, they're a pack of mercenaries
Not to be a hater, but wasnt EG viewed like that since quite some time?
They are "a leading new media agency which specializes in contracting pro gamers, executing online and offline broadcasts, and developing unique marketing initiatives aimed at attracting and influencing gamers worldwide". It's about exposure, not results.
On March 05 2013 03:35 sitromit wrote: They're not a team, they're a pack of mercenaries
Not to be a hater, but wasnt EG viewed like that since quite some time?
They are "a leading new media agency which specializes in contracting pro gamers, executing online and offline broadcasts, and developing unique marketing initiatives aimed at attracting and influencing gamers worldwide". It's about exposure, not results.
Did TL know this when they partnered with them for PL?
On March 05 2013 02:03 Holdenintherye wrote: Sigh... This is getting so depressing to watch. But lets hope that they can turn it around for HoTS
They said that EGTL will turn it around when the all kill format came around. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Taeja got back to Korea. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Stephano arrived in Korea.
The problem isn't external, it's internal. There's a fundamental problem with the team, and until they fix that, expect more showings like this round's.
On March 05 2013 02:03 Holdenintherye wrote: Sigh... This is getting so depressing to watch. But lets hope that they can turn it around for HoTS
They said that EGTL will turn it around when the all kill format came around. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Taeja got back to Korea. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Stephano arrived in Korea.
The problem isn't external, it's internal. There's a fundamental problem with the team, and until they fix that, expect more showings like this round's.
On March 05 2013 03:35 sitromit wrote: They're not a team, they're a pack of mercenaries
Not to be a hater, but wasnt EG viewed like that since quite some time?
They are "a leading new media agency which specializes in contracting pro gamers, executing online and offline broadcasts, and developing unique marketing initiatives aimed at attracting and influencing gamers worldwide". It's about exposure, not results.
Did TL know this when they partnered with them for PL?
It's Proleague. TL is founded on Brood War. Exposure for one team and a dream coming true for the other. Win/Win.
Thus the "Unholy Alliance" was born. *dramatic gesture*
On March 05 2013 03:35 sitromit wrote: They're not a team, they're a pack of mercenaries
Not to be a hater, but wasnt EG viewed like that since quite some time?
They are "a leading new media agency which specializes in contracting pro gamers, executing online and offline broadcasts, and developing unique marketing initiatives aimed at attracting and influencing gamers worldwide". It's about exposure, not results.
Did TL know this when they partnered with them for PL?
On March 05 2013 03:35 sitromit wrote: They're not a team, they're a pack of mercenaries
Not to be a hater, but wasnt EG viewed like that since quite some time?
They are "a leading new media agency which specializes in contracting pro gamers, executing online and offline broadcasts, and developing unique marketing initiatives aimed at attracting and influencing gamers worldwide". It's about exposure, not results.
Did TL know this when they partnered with them for PL?
On March 05 2013 03:35 sitromit wrote: They're not a team, they're a pack of mercenaries
Not to be a hater, but wasnt EG viewed like that since quite some time?
They are "a leading new media agency which specializes in contracting pro gamers, executing online and offline broadcasts, and developing unique marketing initiatives aimed at attracting and influencing gamers worldwide". It's about exposure, not results.
Did TL know this when they partnered with them for PL?
It's Proleague. TL is founded on Brood War. Exposure for one team and a dream coming true for the other. Win/Win.
Thus the "Unholy Alliance" was born. *dramatic gesture*
It should be noted that both EG and TL are putting up similar results for the team so it's not like we can really fault one model or the other.
On March 05 2013 03:35 sitromit wrote: They're not a team, they're a pack of mercenaries
Not to be a hater, but wasnt EG viewed like that since quite some time?
They are "a leading new media agency which specializes in contracting pro gamers, executing online and offline broadcasts, and developing unique marketing initiatives aimed at attracting and influencing gamers worldwide". It's about exposure, not results.
Did TL know this when they partnered with them for PL?
TL isn't much different nowadays.
You are right. Do you think it makes sense to still support teams like this?
On March 05 2013 03:35 sitromit wrote: They're not a team, they're a pack of mercenaries
Not to be a hater, but wasnt EG viewed like that since quite some time?
They are "a leading new media agency which specializes in contracting pro gamers, executing online and offline broadcasts, and developing unique marketing initiatives aimed at attracting and influencing gamers worldwide". It's about exposure, not results.
Did TL know this when they partnered with them for PL?
It's Proleague. TL is founded on Brood War. Exposure for one team and a dream coming true for the other. Win/Win.
Thus the "Unholy Alliance" was born. *dramatic gesture*
It should be noted that both EG and TL are putting up similar results for the team so it's not like we can really fault one model or the other.
I wouldn't "fault" it on one team over another, but I'd theorize EG's model has no chance at all to do well. If you're worried about exposure and no results, there's just no way results are going to come. With TL's philosophy at least it could potentially happen. I mean, if you're EG and you want exposure, all you need to do is be there, and have your players with dat EG shirt sit down and lose, it doesn't matter.
What angers me the most is what EG did to Jaedong. And the fact that JD signed up for it is disturbing. And sad. In T8 he was actually starting to improve rather quickly, except for that dreadful ZvP.
On March 05 2013 02:03 Holdenintherye wrote: Sigh... This is getting so depressing to watch. But lets hope that they can turn it around for HoTS
They said that EGTL will turn it around when the all kill format came around. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Taeja got back to Korea. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Stephano arrived in Korea.
The problem isn't external, it's internal. There's a fundamental problem with the team, and until they fix that, expect more showings like this round's.
On March 05 2013 02:03 Holdenintherye wrote: Sigh... This is getting so depressing to watch. But lets hope that they can turn it around for HoTS
They said that EGTL will turn it around when the all kill format came around. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Taeja got back to Korea. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Stephano arrived in Korea.
The problem isn't external, it's internal. There's a fundamental problem with the team, and until they fix that, expect more showings like this round's.
Lol at the very start of PL there was probably a window that EGTL could have taken advantage of. Unfortunately, it was inevitable that the KeSPA players would end up playing better in PL.
On March 05 2013 04:01 Poopi wrote: At first I was upset because KT and EG boys kind of ruined my team (less than samsung khan bossing it up tho) but now I'm genuinely amused by these almost pathetic showings of EG-TL.
Maybe on HotS...
2 years ahead in WoL.
6 months in HotS. Ya, they're gonna dominate...
Lol 1.5 year on another patches so it didn't matter. Kespa boys ain't scrub it doesn't take long to catch up to the average GSL level with a decent infrastructure + BW experience. They aren't gonna dominate but maybe the players who care about teamleagues within EGTl members (only the koreans?) will step it up.
On March 05 2013 02:03 Holdenintherye wrote: Sigh... This is getting so depressing to watch. But lets hope that they can turn it around for HoTS
They said that EGTL will turn it around when the all kill format came around. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Taeja got back to Korea. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Stephano arrived in Korea.
The problem isn't external, it's internal. There's a fundamental problem with the team, and until they fix that, expect more showings like this round's.
"Prepare yourself, proleague, you just unleashed a monster into your tounament"
*ahem*
What, are they supposed to BM the team from the site they are posting the article for?
"Don't worry about us, Proleague, we're not going to accomplish anything"
Yeah that sounds a lot better, I'll see what I can do.
At least it would have been accurate
3 months down the road? On paper, at the time, it was a completely reasonable prediction that they would have dominated.
No it wasn't. That article was completely oblivious to the inherent advantages Proleague teams would have over EGTL, and it was pointed out many times in the same thread before PL even started.
On March 05 2013 02:03 Holdenintherye wrote: Sigh... This is getting so depressing to watch. But lets hope that they can turn it around for HoTS
They said that EGTL will turn it around when the all kill format came around. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Taeja got back to Korea. They said that EGTL will turn it around when Stephano arrived in Korea.
The problem isn't external, it's internal. There's a fundamental problem with the team, and until they fix that, expect more showings like this round's.
Well this is pretty embarrassing. Did EG-TL management not realize that proleague would be a big commitment? That the players would have to practice specifically for it? Is any training regiment enforced in EG-TL? Come on, with the experience some of these players have I can't believe this is the best they can do. Still, there needs to be someone pushing them in the right direction, right now every game looks sloppier than the next. Starting with Stephano going for his standard double gas at 6 min which is hard countered by quick third, the most popular build on Entombed.... It just seems they don't even think about Proleague
i am hopeful that after this season eg-tl will call it quits and eg will go beack to making the next season of eg masters cup. so that foreign teams can take their turn owning eg like what happened last season. lol
On March 05 2013 04:01 Poopi wrote: At first I was upset because KT and EG boys kind of ruined my team (less than samsung khan bossing it up tho) but now I'm genuinely amused by these almost pathetic showings of EG-TL.
Maybe on HotS...
2 years ahead in WoL.
6 months in HotS. Ya, they're gonna dominate...
Lol 1.5 year on another patches so it didn't matter. Kespa boys ain't scrub it doesn't take long to catch up to the average GSL level with a decent infrastructure + BW experience. They aren't gonna dominate but maybe the players who care about teamleagues within EGTl members (only the koreans?) will step it up.
Well, haven't there been patches in HotS too? Either way the jump from WoL to HotS should be much easier for KeSPA teams than the jump from BW to WoL. It's hard to predict EG-TL to do any worse than they have but I think it's wishful thinking to believe that they'll see much of an improvement. Maybe they'll be able to climb to 7th place.
On March 05 2013 11:22 magicallypuzzled wrote: i am hopeful that after this season eg-tl will call it quits and eg will go beack to making the next season of eg masters cup. so that foreign teams can take their turn owning eg like what happened last season. lol
On March 05 2013 12:38 Mortal wrote: This is really getting pathetic. Hoping to see them bow out after this little number of theirs. Clearly they're not even remotely up to the task.
They're most likely under contract which means they cant leave the season until it finishes. What i would like to see is not them to bail, but to take it serious and improve. I've wanting to write a post about how the difference between foreigners and koreans is not skill( as proven by the numerous times a foreigner has done good in tournaments that have koreans in them) but dedication.
I get it, EG doesn't care if their players are good or not (Huk, Idra, Machine, Demuslim), and they're just looking of way to market players rather than results, but if this was really the case, then why join the most prestigious(Yes, the GSTL is a close runner up, but SPL has been running for way longer, so you have to give them the edge) team league there is?, it doesn't make any sense.
If what they want is to focus on streams, then do streams, if they're going to join the proleague, then you kind of expect them to live up to their name and skill, and prepare for it.
On March 05 2013 13:16 mierin wrote: This is like JD Oz, but JD himself isn't even coming close to saving them. :\
Maybe EG is trying to live up to their name, and in the most brilliant move in SC history they resurrect the tyrant by recreating his hay day atmosphere. What broke JD shall ultimately raise him from the ashes!!
as long as the sponsors don't demand results nothing will change. and they usually don't, they just want the exposure, plugs and marketing/publicity related stuff. but it's the only thing that could make EG give a damn. Honestly i'm pretty sure they themselves don't care about doing well in PL that much. as for TL, idk..you can tell hero's trying very hard, Zenio's just not good enough right now and Taeja just had too much on his hands
On March 05 2013 17:33 Kabras wrote: as long as the sponsors don't demand results nothing will change. and they usually don't, they just want the exposure, plugs and marketing/publicity related stuff. but it's the only thing that could make TL give a damn. Honestly i'm pretty sure they themselves don't care about doing well in PL that much. as for EG, idk..you can tell JD's trying very hard, Puma's just not good enough right now and Stephano just had too much on his hands
On March 05 2013 23:17 ChriseC wrote: i think eg needs to buy some new players or finaly send the gracken over to stomp proleague
but all the other team would have to do is send out ANY protoss and he will lose...doesn't matter the caliber.
Sad to see EG-TL doing completely awful in proleague....it honestly seems like they aren't really caring about it...play is subpar and getting outclassed by a lot of players who just switched over to SC2
On March 05 2013 17:33 Kabras wrote: as long as the sponsors don't demand results nothing will change. and they usually don't, they just want the exposure, plugs and marketing/publicity related stuff. but it's the only thing that could make EG give a damn. Honestly i'm pretty sure they themselves don't care about doing well in PL that much. as for TL, idk..you can tell hero's trying very hard, Zenio's just not good enough right now and Taeja just had too much on his hands
The problem are the Supporters of this Teams/Players. As long WE dont demand results, nothing is gonna change. The beginning of HotS is a rare opportunity to take a stand for game quality: "If no quality/dedication/improvement is shown, i will not support you (directly and indirectly)".
On March 05 2013 17:33 Kabras wrote: as long as the sponsors don't demand results nothing will change. and they usually don't, they just want the exposure, plugs and marketing/publicity related stuff. but it's the only thing that could make EG give a damn. Honestly i'm pretty sure they themselves don't care about doing well in PL that much. as for TL, idk..you can tell hero's trying very hard, Zenio's just not good enough right now and Taeja just had too much on his hands
By losing sooo many matches they are losing viewers in PL I think.
On March 04 2013 19:14 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: I think that is an interesting point, you see foreigner Koreans decline because not by any curse but because their training is so much less restrictive and strenuous. It must feel like an Amish at Rumspring in comparison especially poolside at the EG house in sunny AZ.
Asia is a weird place. Did you see China builds skyscrapers because of government just creating jobs for people, middle class Chinese buy homes just for investment you have empty cities and 20 million homeless. Also nobody lives in a place almost as developed as Manhattan.
Random thought I know but my point is Asians are crazy, notice how in the videos almost none have girlfriends none have time. We always wonder why they are so awkward on stage how many even have social time with humans?
I hope this isn't coming off as player bashing I am just saying nobody could ever match Korean work ethics. Their culture is intense which is why they develop such phenomenal talent. As Iron sharpens Iron.
You realize this is because they're computer nerds right?
Hahahaha...Seeing this since BW time... When foreigners do well...Thats because they are great and talented...But when they see asians doing better and foreigners become useless...They start saying..they dont have social life..they are nerds...bla bla bla.... Dude...in asia you have to earn everything...
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