EPTOn December 24 2012 07:20 Insoleet wrote:
Actually, if the terran goes marine tank on 3 bases and pushes on his 2 2 1, he is in a good shape against zerg.
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On December 24 2012 07:17 ColtraneL wrote:
It is related to infestor/queen balance actually if you consider that to be able to counter this build, you have to play the way Mvp did. In the end, it exposes you to those kind of push, and you end up losing. That's also why the muta/bling style came back, you can use it because some terrans feel obliged to play hellion into banshee which is sensible to good muta utilisation.
There is a reason a lot of terran have been very greedy, and it's obviously because it's the only way they have found to win. Now I'm not saying it is impossible to win with another way, but almost no terran has come up with it until now. But well I agree, no need to whine about this in here, let's just wait to see if the game changes in the right direction with the next patch (january I heard?).
On December 24 2012 07:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I'm not saying that the match-up doesn't deserve scrutiny.
I'm saying that we don't need to hear balance whining when Mvp loses to a traditional roach rush, because that has nothing to do with infestors or queen range or the patch or anything like that. And it's not like the current #1 Terran was just destroyed after playing perfectly against a no-name Zerg.
There's a time and a place for these discussions. And I don't think Stephano vs. Mvp warranted any balance complaints.
On December 24 2012 07:05 Qwerty85 wrote:
That is true but you also must admit that in 2012 you have 0 terrans with what you would say "good TvZ".
Although Mvp has a lot of fans, it is not just about him losing, to me it is more about how no terrans really have good TvZ anymore.
You have occasional terran that shines for a couple of weeks but no terrans that have TvZ as their strongest matchup for a longer period of time.
Makes you wonder...
On December 24 2012 07:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Just because a Terran loses a game doesn't mean it exemplifies ZvT imbalance and warrants balance whining.
On December 24 2012 06:59 JJH777 wrote:
Disappointing. Just another Terran losing. Sting winning IEM singapore really was a miracle. I almost wish he didn't so that I could say Terran hasn't won a big tournament in 4 months but oh well anyone who's not biased knows they are the worst race right now.
Disappointing. Just another Terran losing. Sting winning IEM singapore really was a miracle. I almost wish he didn't so that I could say Terran hasn't won a big tournament in 4 months but oh well anyone who's not biased knows they are the worst race right now.
Just because a Terran loses a game doesn't mean it exemplifies ZvT imbalance and warrants balance whining.
That is true but you also must admit that in 2012 you have 0 terrans with what you would say "good TvZ".
Although Mvp has a lot of fans, it is not just about him losing, to me it is more about how no terrans really have good TvZ anymore.
You have occasional terran that shines for a couple of weeks but no terrans that have TvZ as their strongest matchup for a longer period of time.
Makes you wonder...
I'm not saying that the match-up doesn't deserve scrutiny.
I'm saying that we don't need to hear balance whining when Mvp loses to a traditional roach rush, because that has nothing to do with infestors or queen range or the patch or anything like that. And it's not like the current #1 Terran was just destroyed after playing perfectly against a no-name Zerg.
There's a time and a place for these discussions. And I don't think Stephano vs. Mvp warranted any balance complaints.
It is related to infestor/queen balance actually if you consider that to be able to counter this build, you have to play the way Mvp did. In the end, it exposes you to those kind of push, and you end up losing. That's also why the muta/bling style came back, you can use it because some terrans feel obliged to play hellion into banshee which is sensible to good muta utilisation.
There is a reason a lot of terran have been very greedy, and it's obviously because it's the only way they have found to win. Now I'm not saying it is impossible to win with another way, but almost no terran has come up with it until now. But well I agree, no need to whine about this in here, let's just wait to see if the game changes in the right direction with the next patch (january I heard?).
Actually, if the terran goes marine tank on 3 bases and pushes on his 2 2 1, he is in a good shape against zerg.
Assuming you're talking about the 14 min 2 2 push, that's been pretty figured out by Zergs because it's been around for like a year+ now. The queen patch just made it easier to hold off.
