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[WCS] Global Finals Day 1 - Page 8

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Trashman420
Profile Joined September 2012
232 Posts
November 14 2012 20:55 GMT
#141
I think Stephano will go out in group stages or in ro16. Whoever gets 2nd in that group is going to have a damn hard time against Rain. My guess for 1st in Stephano's group is Roro.
Foreigners fighting
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8302 Posts
November 14 2012 20:55 GMT
#142
On November 14 2012 15:13 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 15:00 Rui.S wrote:
Do people really think stephano or scarlett is going to win over rain, parting or creator -.-

to be fair, stephano at his peak could take a few games off those protosses, but he hasn't looked so hot lately

scarlett is pretty good, but it's hard to say where she really is in terms of skill. i'd say mid Code A-ish, based on her performance at MLG?

they're both foreigners, so that's a huge draw for fans too. it would be good if they went semi-deep for foreigner hope! haha so long as they don't knock out creator :p

Poll: Biggest potential upset against a Korean on Day 1?

IdrA vs. RorO (54)
 
27%

Stephano vs. HerO (52)
 
26%

Nerchio vs. Creator (33)
 
16%

Major vs. herO[jOin] (19)
 
9%

Curious vs. TitaN (17)
 
8%

PartinG vs. Socke (16)
 
8%

MaFia vs. Rain (10)
 
5%

201 total votes

Your vote: Biggest potential upset against a Korean on Day 1?

(Vote): PartinG vs. Socke
(Vote): Stephano vs. HerO
(Vote): MaFia vs. Rain
(Vote): IdrA vs. RorO
(Vote): Curious vs. TitaN
(Vote): Major vs. herO[jOin]
(Vote): Nerchio vs. Creator



Stephano hasn't been looking so hot lately opterown? But... but last weekend...
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
November 14 2012 20:57 GMT
#143
On November 15 2012 05:55 TheDougler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 15:13 opterown wrote:
On November 14 2012 15:00 Rui.S wrote:
Do people really think stephano or scarlett is going to win over rain, parting or creator -.-

to be fair, stephano at his peak could take a few games off those protosses, but he hasn't looked so hot lately

scarlett is pretty good, but it's hard to say where she really is in terms of skill. i'd say mid Code A-ish, based on her performance at MLG?

they're both foreigners, so that's a huge draw for fans too. it would be good if they went semi-deep for foreigner hope! haha so long as they don't knock out creator :p

Poll: Biggest potential upset against a Korean on Day 1?

IdrA vs. RorO (54)
 
27%

Stephano vs. HerO (52)
 
26%

Nerchio vs. Creator (33)
 
16%

Major vs. herO[jOin] (19)
 
9%

Curious vs. TitaN (17)
 
8%

PartinG vs. Socke (16)
 
8%

MaFia vs. Rain (10)
 
5%

201 total votes

Your vote: Biggest potential upset against a Korean on Day 1?

(Vote): PartinG vs. Socke
(Vote): Stephano vs. HerO
(Vote): MaFia vs. Rain
(Vote): IdrA vs. RorO
(Vote): Curious vs. TitaN
(Vote): Major vs. herO[jOin]
(Vote): Nerchio vs. Creator



Stephano hasn't been looking so hot lately opterown? But... but last weekend...

Stim to win was pretty recent too :p
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
November 14 2012 20:59 GMT
#144
huh, scarlett + nerchio in the same group (with creator...) seems unfortunate

guessing:
parting/socke [though maybe it'd be nice if a terran advances, lol]
vortix/vibe
sen/grubby
rain/babyknight
stephano/roro (scary group)
curious/titan (scary group, except probably more evenly matched than the previous group)
lucifron/lowely
creator/nerchio
Writer
gedatsu
Profile Joined December 2011
1286 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-14 21:10:32
November 14 2012 21:07 GMT
#145
On November 15 2012 05:55 Trashman420 wrote:
I think Stephano will go out in group stages or in ro16. Whoever gets 2nd in that group is going to have a damn hard time against Rain. My guess for 1st in Stephano's group is Roro.

Stephano is going to win the whole thing. 150%. I did the math.
Inzan1ty
Profile Joined September 2012
1163 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-14 21:21:02
November 14 2012 21:12 GMT
#146
On November 14 2012 17:29 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 17:26 StarVe wrote:
On November 14 2012 17:25 opterown wrote:
On November 14 2012 17:23 RaiKageRyu wrote:
lol, it will be top 4 protoss. Trust me

nah, there are only three tier1 protoss here, and they can get upset pretty easily. i think curious or roro stand a great chance at top 4

On November 14 2012 16:00 RPR_Tempest wrote:
Acer.Nerchio 2-0 CreatorPrime

PvZ is Creator's weakest match-up, contrasting Nerchio's best. Now, best match-up vs worst match-up doesn't mean anything if there's a significant difference of skill between the players, but there isn't. MC and YongHwa, two players with what I view as a little bit better PvZ that Creator, really got schooled by Nerchio.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1771_Nerchio/games#tblt-7665-1-default-0-creator

heh :D

Doesn't say too much though, remember how this looked before certain LAN tournaments happened.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-international&type=players&id=1771&part=games&league=standard&vs=P#tblt-7596-1-default-0-mc

MC had a rather noticable drop in results, while creator has only improved since a few months ago

nerchio can upset creator, and i agree pvz is creator's worst... but creator's worst is a fair amount better than almost anyone else's. creator has top3 PvT and PvP, having a top5 PvZ is no shame haha. i'd still favour creator.

Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 17:26 StarVe wrote:
I'd still favour Creator, but one online tournament where Nerchio played quite badly (I think I remember seeing those games) and a BO1 on Tal'darim isn't too meaningful.

he did reach the finals, couldn't have been that bad haha


Didn`t thought I would ever agree with Opterown again, but hes right, Creator is the real deal among GOM Protoss right now.

Watching his Code S games, one can not possible deny his raw skill and intelligence no more.

Iam going as far as to claim Rain and Creator are a class above everybody else in this tournament, including Stephano (yea go on flame the hell outta me)

But I`am expecting nothing less than the ultimate showdown of the Aiur presidential elections, with MC watching it from the bench haha.
RIP Seung Hyun 'Space' Park † 6/5/2013 - Undead hero and eSports rolemodel
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
November 14 2012 22:05 GMT
#147
On November 15 2012 06:12 Inzan1ty wrote:
Didn`t thought I would ever agree with Opterown again, but hes right, Creator is the real deal among GOM Protoss right now.

i'm sure in a few weeks if/when creator falls off you'd never think of him again, dw
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
LockeTazeline
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
2390 Posts
November 14 2012 22:56 GMT
#148
Interesting to see most people picking against the Hero's.

For now, the only prediction I have is that KongTale_Curious gets 2nd place.

And the only hope I have is that PartinG redeems himself.
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8302 Posts
November 15 2012 02:05 GMT
#149
On November 14 2012 16:00 RPR_Tempest wrote:


I like it when people shit talk my predictions because it usually makes matches more exciting. Being able to say "Ha ha ha ha ha ha! I was right and you were wrong!" is great. Of course, it can backfire too.


Well then to keep things lively:You're so wrong about Scarlett's group! :p

As you say though it is SO difficult to predict. I think the one thing you're oversimplifying is Nerchio's ZvZ. I think about seven months ago I would agree, it WAS top ten (close enough) in the world. If you look at his ZvZ results lately they've been somewhat shaky however. (Well... aside from DH Bucharest... fuck this is a difficult group to predict!)

I also think you're underestimating Creator.

I think it'll go:

Scarlett beats Moonglade 2-1 (Canadian bias hooo!)
Creator beats Nerchio 2-1 (When in doubt, bet on the Korean).
Moonglade ??? Nerchio I can't predict that one at all. I'll say Nerchio wins 2-1 but if I'm wrong then I'm wrong
Scarlett beats Creator 2-0
Creator beats Nerchio 2-0


Scarlett and Creator advance
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
November 15 2012 02:07 GMT
#150
creator is scared of scarlett, but i'd still favour him over her
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
-IeZaeL-
Profile Joined December 2007
Spain327 Posts
November 15 2012 02:33 GMT
#151
haha so we can vote Grubby,Nerchio,IdrA ..and we cant vote VortiX/LucifroN who ares Top2/3 in the European qualifer xD lol

My predictions! :
A: PartinG + Illusion
B: VortiX + ViBe
C: Sen + Grubby
D: Rain + BabyKnighT
E: Stephano + RorO
F: herO + CuriouS
G: LucifroN + LoWeLy
H: Scarlett + Nerchio

gl hf! : )
aka:Wizards-> FnaticMSI ->IImg.IeZaeL ->MYM.IeZaeL . Actually teamless,Top40-80 GM Europe.Twitter: @IeZaeL_7
Extenz
Profile Joined October 2011
Italy822 Posts
November 15 2012 02:58 GMT
#152
where is jeal the italian champion? didn't he get a spot in china?
Dexington
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada7276 Posts
November 15 2012 02:59 GMT
#153
On November 15 2012 11:58 Extenz wrote:
where is jeal the italian champion? didn't he get a spot in china?


No
"Man you guys are missing out waving your stats dicks about instead of watching this pvp" - bbm
Extenz
Profile Joined October 2011
Italy822 Posts
November 15 2012 03:07 GMT
#154
On November 15 2012 11:59 Dexington wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2012 11:58 Extenz wrote:
where is jeal the italian champion? didn't he get a spot in china?


No


how come? I thought the champion of any country got a spot regardless of their perfomance in wcs eu.
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8302 Posts
November 15 2012 03:34 GMT
#155
Just updated my first post in this thread from one sentence to several more sentences:

+ Show Spoiler +

On November 14 2012 14:23 TheDougler wrote:
I am SO unbelievably stoked for this!

Updated to include Dougler's Top Ten!

Muahaha! My evil scheme to steal the first post on this thread has come to fruition.

Now behold! My top ten reasons why this tournament is effing AMAZING.

10. The Players
Lets get this out of the way right now. Every player here is an absolute rock star in my eyes. Whether they be favorites, underdogs, or Grubby ( <3 ), the fact of the matter is each of them clawed their way through national qualifiers, nationals, and then continentals to get here, deserves just so much respect. I’ll go into some of the stories I’m particularly interested in, but really ALL of them are fascinating.

9. America (Fuck Yeah!) (Part One)

One of the stories which I can’t believe how few people are talking about which is potential Comm vs Vibe. Not only do I LOVE to root for Root, but this is America’s champion vs the Chinese champion! That’s one of my favorite rivalries of this era! Come on, you've GOT to be excited about that! And realistically, should these two meet it could really go either way.

8. Idra the Martyr (America Part Two)

This poor bastard. I mean, there have been some ROUGH groups before, but in the past it’s been a thing of honor. Not this time. A buddy of mine rightly pointed out that NOBODY wants to be in this group. Not Idra, not Hero, not Roro, nor (I presume) Stephano. I was hypothesizing the two possible groups of death this tournament before the groups were out and the most likely candidates were the group with Stephano a Korean, or the group with two Koreans. The Starcraft Gods were wrathful when the groups were decided however, and we were given this monstrosity of a group. Idra, especially, is facing one hell of an uphill battle. Though, should the worst occur for the mighty Gracken his defeat would not be in vain. He faces the group from hell alone, so that his countrymen can do the United States proud. Suppy and Vibe have a fine shot at group B. Insur should be able to at least place 2nd in Group G (though I have been wrong about Lowely in the past…). State would need only to beat Babyknight to advance in second place in his group. (Unless Mafia pulls off a miracle). In my mind, the final game for Idra ends with him yelling and typing FREEDOM!!!!!! As he 8 pools and pulls the drones against Roro.

7. Luck of the Spanish

If there are two players who can be absolutely stoked on life about their groups and bracket, it’s the two Spaniards. Not only are they the favorites to take their respective groups, they pass on each others scraps to one another in the round of 16, virtually assuring a Spaniard in the quarterfinals. Winner of Group G takes on runner up of Group B, and visa versa. If Lucifron and Vortix both place first or place 2nd, they’ll be able to avenge each-other or continue to remind people of Spain’s power, if they place 1st 2nd, then fratricide will occur in the round of 16, which is always thrilling. Best of all, this gives us a fantastic shot of a terran making the RO8. Which reminds me….

6. Los Tres Amigos y Illusion en: La Camina Ultima de Los Terran (Last March of the Terran)

Have you played the Campaign? Mock it all you want, there are two immutable facts about it: A. Still a better love story than twilight (marginally). B. There is STILL a feeling of epicness as the Terran forces descend upon Char. One last attempt to save humanity from certain destruction, because some things are worth fighting for. As it was in the Koprulu Sector, so it is now. Four of them remain, Major almost ended up in Lucifron’s group but fate it seemed had a crueler fate in store for him. Two shall fight amongst themselves for survival, while Lucifron brings the full wrath of his race down upon his group to vindicate all the marines that fell in the past months. No matter your thoughts on balance, favorite matchups, or regional preferences, you can’t help but root for these four brave souls for the hope that they represent.

Well hope... and being sick to death of PvZ.

5. Dat Group of Death.

Seriously. I mean, I know I’ve already mentioned it, but the magnitude of it still just astounds me. Not only does it have three of the best players here, but that group is actually even worse than it first appears. Though this group is in the spotlight, a sinister shadow hovers overhead. After the first player advances through this group, and the loser's match eliminates a once bright star, and the final match's winner limps off to fight another day, he shall turn to the bracket and weep in dismay. Why, oh god WHY did the second place finisher here have to go against winner of Group D AKA, SKT1Rain's Group? Such is the way of brackets. So, let us give all four of these players are attention. Stephano, Roro, Hero, and Idra. Idra was finally starting to show results again, and while Hero's once dazzling PvZ has begun to fade he is a man determined to win back the adulation of the world. Stephano's worst matchup is ZvZ, but he JUST won LSC2, and placed third at ESWC. Roro's results at WCS Korea haven't really held up in the past couple months, but we can't forget that he was the highest placing Zerg in Korea at that tournament. These are all top calliber players, but two can survive. Then, as I mentioned, is the second question: Can any of these player's beat Rain? Stephano might have a shot, perhaps Roro can pull off a miracle too... But in the end, this is the Game of Thrones group. Here, you win, or you die, there is no middle ground.

4. Grubby, in China

If you haven't seen the video of Grubby escaping throngs of Chinese fans yet you most likely needn't look far, it'll be in this LR somewhere... (Okay okay, I'll update this with that video in due time, I want to get this posted first though). Grubby is even more of an e-sports legend there than he is here, and he has a great shot at taking his group. If there's one thing in particular about grubby (other than the fact that he may actually have more Chinese fan's than the Chinese national champion), it's that he is always improving. Can he advance to the RO16? I wouldn't put it past him that's for sure.

3. "The Gap"

Since the earliest days of starcraft 2 the question of the skill gap has persisted. How close is the top tier of foreigners to the Koreans? MLG results this year mostly say one thing, Dreamhack results this year mostly say another. In 2011, it was similar. We were in a pretty serious dry spell until the October revolution and people again asked, could we make it? Well Mana just won ESWC (admittedly, against not the strongest of Korean competition), and Stephano just won Lone Star Clash 2. Are all the top foreigners here to represent our pride? Not exactly, but neither are the Koreans. In my eyes though, this and IPL will be the defining moments in the 2012 edition of the Foreigner vs Korea war.

2. HuK and Scarlett

Yeah sure, this probably shouldn't be the second highest item on the list here, but I'm the one writing it, and I like to get my patriotic kicks in where I can. I think I speak on behalf of most of the Canadian e-sports watching competition when I say we couldn't be more proud of them. For one reason or another they have their haters, but you can't deny their Champion spirit.

Scarlett, our beloved Queen of Blades, has been absolutely on fire lately. Sure, MLG didn't go quite as well as we had hoped, but she's reaching Hyun levels of winning things online, and she has shown in WCS Canada and WCS NA that she can win LAN tournaments. I won't lie, my hopes for Scarlett are most likely unreasonably high this tournament and that may be foolish. However, you would be just as much of a fool to doubt her. She narrowly lost to Leenock in the finals of RSL, and + Show Spoiler [ Acer vs Dignitas IPTL Spoiler] +
all killed Team Dignitas tonight
. Regardless of what happens, I'm stoked that she's there representing Canada.

When you have a borderline-fanatical attention for a player such as me and my buddies have for HuK, you get a pretty good sense of how things are going. HuK's been through some rough times in 2012 no doubt, but his slump wasn't nearly as bad as most people would have you believe. Variance got the better of him for a couple months around april-may, but things were only starting to look truly shaky for HuK about six weeks before his NASL match. I don't think any of us can truly appreciate what that must have been like. I could keep rambling on but here's the thing: Fan though I may be, people are giving HuK way too little credit lately. He twice within a single game of qualifying for pool play at MLG Dallas, only losing 3-4 to Vibe, and 1-2 to Moonglade who had just beat MC 2-1. Earlier this week at GSL Code A qualifiers he was 4-0 in maps before meeting easily the hottest player at the qualifers that day: MVPTails who had woken up that morning likely after a victory orgy due to 4 killing IM. That shit happens. Sure, HuK's PvZ might still be pretty 2010, but it's not like most protosses are actually WINNING in the late game anyway! If HuK's on his game, he can make some people remember the hero of Canada, and even if not he remains dear to us for representing Canada so long and for so well while we've waited for the True Northern Bonjwa in Scarlett. (Get it? TRUE NORTH haha).

/fanboy

1. Wings of Liberty Champion

Years from now, when WoL is but a distant memory, people will be debating who was the champion of wings of liberty. There'll be outsiders, who try to convince you that MKP, or DRG was the greatest (because some people are just that awesome). There'll be a grizzled, rambling old man named Fionn who will say it was Polt. But, for the most part, it'll come down to two people. MVP, and the winner of this tournament. MVP will likely still be the stronger argument, but lets hypothesize here. If Stephano beats the odds? The only time somebody has achieved that level of success coming from one region into a game dominated by another region, was Grubby, who is still frequently cited as the best WC3 player. Maybe he was, but between him Moon, and Sky, there's no one right answer there. If Rain wins? He won OSL, and he won WCS Asia and placed 3rd/4th at his first ever GSL, but THIS would be the defining moment in his early career. If it's not one of those two? Still, this will be the only WoL WCS. That should carry a ton of weight. If you're a fan of this game, you should probably try to find time to watch one person be crowned champion of it forever more.

And that's my top ten list. Hope you enjoyed. I was kind of tired when I wrote the last five, and was at work when I wrote the first five. I just wanted to contribute some, and I think (if only by sheer volume) I accomplished that. I'll duffy it up to look nice later, but am calling it a night for now.

If I had more energy I'd go on a tirade about how much we should thank Blizzard for all they've put into this tournament. Like seriously, it's UNREAL that this is the culmination of just SOOOOOOOO much planning and organizing... But that is a rant for another time.

I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
Dexington
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada7276 Posts
November 15 2012 03:36 GMT
#156
On November 15 2012 12:07 Extenz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2012 11:59 Dexington wrote:
On November 15 2012 11:58 Extenz wrote:
where is jeal the italian champion? didn't he get a spot in china?


No


how come? I thought the champion of any country got a spot regardless of their perfomance in wcs eu.


Germany, Russia, Canada, USA, Taiwan, France, China and Korea were the only countries that got direct seed for the winners.
"Man you guys are missing out waving your stats dicks about instead of watching this pvp" - bbm
Weirdkid
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Singapore2431 Posts
November 15 2012 03:39 GMT
#157
Hoooooo crap that trophy looks leet

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/7849190/BWC_–_The_Gosu_Trophy-11_13_2012
"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself." - Proverbs 26:4
Xenjin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States11 Posts
November 15 2012 04:39 GMT
#158
Does anyone know if the stream will still be up on Sunday? Sort of like blizzcon where you can go back and view it on demand? I have to work both Friday and Saturday (the days it actually takes place in my time zone) and was crossing my fingers that me and a few friends could still catch it on Sunday. I can't seem to find information on this anywhere.
MonkSEA
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia1227 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-15 04:49:32
November 15 2012 04:49 GMT
#159
On November 14 2012 15:13 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 15:00 Rui.S wrote:
Do people really think stephano or scarlett is going to win over rain, parting or creator -.-

to be fair, stephano at his peak could take a few games off those protosses, but he hasn't looked so hot lately

scarlett is pretty good, but it's hard to say where she really is in terms of skill. i'd say mid Code A-ish, based on her performance at MLG?

they're both foreigners, so that's a huge draw for fans too. it would be good if they went semi-deep for foreigner hope! haha so long as they don't knock out creator :p

Poll: Biggest potential upset against a Korean on Day 1?

IdrA vs. RorO (54)
 
27%

Stephano vs. HerO (52)
 
26%

Nerchio vs. Creator (33)
 
16%

Major vs. herO[jOin] (19)
 
9%

Curious vs. TitaN (17)
 
8%

PartinG vs. Socke (16)
 
8%

MaFia vs. Rain (10)
 
5%

201 total votes

Your vote: Biggest potential upset against a Korean on Day 1?

(Vote): PartinG vs. Socke
(Vote): Stephano vs. HerO
(Vote): MaFia vs. Rain
(Vote): IdrA vs. RorO
(Vote): Curious vs. TitaN
(Vote): Major vs. herO[jOin]
(Vote): Nerchio vs. Creator



People are dumb. How is IdrA vs RoRo and Stephano vs HerO an upset? I think if all four of them have a chance to win against each other.

Players like Mafia and Titan upsetting Rain and Curious, that is an upset.

People need to read polls more not just vote for their two favorite players.
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opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
November 15 2012 05:04 GMT
#160
On November 15 2012 13:49 MonkSEA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 15:13 opterown wrote:
On November 14 2012 15:00 Rui.S wrote:
Do people really think stephano or scarlett is going to win over rain, parting or creator -.-

to be fair, stephano at his peak could take a few games off those protosses, but he hasn't looked so hot lately

scarlett is pretty good, but it's hard to say where she really is in terms of skill. i'd say mid Code A-ish, based on her performance at MLG?

they're both foreigners, so that's a huge draw for fans too. it would be good if they went semi-deep for foreigner hope! haha so long as they don't knock out creator :p

Poll: Biggest potential upset against a Korean on Day 1?

IdrA vs. RorO (54)
 
27%

Stephano vs. HerO (52)
 
26%

Nerchio vs. Creator (33)
 
16%

Major vs. herO[jOin] (19)
 
9%

Curious vs. TitaN (17)
 
8%

PartinG vs. Socke (16)
 
8%

MaFia vs. Rain (10)
 
5%

201 total votes

Your vote: Biggest potential upset against a Korean on Day 1?

(Vote): PartinG vs. Socke
(Vote): Stephano vs. HerO
(Vote): MaFia vs. Rain
(Vote): IdrA vs. RorO
(Vote): Curious vs. TitaN
(Vote): Major vs. herO[jOin]
(Vote): Nerchio vs. Creator



People are dumb. How is IdrA vs RoRo and Stephano vs HerO an upset? I think if all four of them have a chance to win against each other.

Players like Mafia and Titan upsetting Rain and Curious, that is an upset.

People need to read polls more not just vote for their two favorite players.

oh, i think idra beating roro would be pretty big
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