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On October 30 2012 11:16 Mackus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2012 11:11 JJH777 wrote:
In addition to only having a 50% win-rate. On the Korean ELO ranking in ZvZ he ranked 18th... ELO has a lot of problems but that's too far from number 1 to blame it on them. When you use ELO to try and make a point that's when you should stop honestly. And if you're gonna use Liquipedia filter out the online international cups and then improvise and give a rough estimate because they're not an even level playing field - If you play a European player on the NA server the Korean player will lag but the EU player won't
TLPD is separated into international and Korean tournaments. In BOTH he only has a 50% win-rate. Also I admitted that ELO isn't very reliable but he is 18th! That is far enough away from number 1 that it is very meaningful. Symbol is no where near the best ZvZer.
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On October 30 2012 11:16 Mackus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2012 11:11 JJH777 wrote:
In addition to only having a 50% win-rate. On the Korean ELO ranking in ZvZ he ranked 18th... ELO has a lot of problems but that's too far from number 1 to blame it on them. When you use ELO to try and make a point that's when you should stop honestly. And if you're gonna use Liquipedia filter out the online international cups and then improvise and give a rough estimate because they're not an even level playing field - If you play a European player on the NA server the Korean player will lag but the EU player won't
And he already said there is problems with ELO like you mention. No one is saying it is an absolute indicator. For example, being #1 in ELO doesn't necessary mean you are the best player in the world. But it would be hard to make an arguement that someone with #100 ELO is the best players. So for this case, it is just a tough argument to make that someone which is 18th in ZvZ ELO is the best ZvZer.
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On October 30 2012 11:19 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2012 11:16 Mackus wrote:On October 30 2012 11:11 JJH777 wrote:
In addition to only having a 50% win-rate. On the Korean ELO ranking in ZvZ he ranked 18th... ELO has a lot of problems but that's too far from number 1 to blame it on them. When you use ELO to try and make a point that's when you should stop honestly. And if you're gonna use Liquipedia filter out the online international cups and then improvise and give a rough estimate because they're not an even level playing field - If you play a European player on the NA server the Korean player will lag but the EU player won't hrm, looking at both TLPDs, symbol hasn't done much in ZvZ lately actually. his biggest ZvZ achievement is probably taking out nestea lol
What about going on that monster streak in the last GSTL? Alot of them we're ZvZs you can argue that they were only bo1's but same applies to Yonghwa who was getting brown-nosed to the point of no-return
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On October 30 2012 11:26 Mackus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2012 11:19 opterown wrote:On October 30 2012 11:16 Mackus wrote:On October 30 2012 11:11 JJH777 wrote:
In addition to only having a 50% win-rate. On the Korean ELO ranking in ZvZ he ranked 18th... ELO has a lot of problems but that's too far from number 1 to blame it on them. When you use ELO to try and make a point that's when you should stop honestly. And if you're gonna use Liquipedia filter out the online international cups and then improvise and give a rough estimate because they're not an even level playing field - If you play a European player on the NA server the Korean player will lag but the EU player won't hrm, looking at both TLPDs, symbol hasn't done much in ZvZ lately actually. his biggest ZvZ achievement is probably taking out nestea lol What about going on that monster streak in the last GSTL? Alot of them we're ZvZs you can argue that they were only bo1's but same applies to Yonghwa who was getting brown-nosed to the point of no-return
he only did beat four zergs (moon, byul, losira, nestea) which isn't that many. in recent times, he has lost to hyun, drg, life and violet.
i think hyun and life at least have posted better zvz results than symbol has recently
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On October 30 2012 11:29 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2012 11:26 Mackus wrote:On October 30 2012 11:19 opterown wrote:On October 30 2012 11:16 Mackus wrote:On October 30 2012 11:11 JJH777 wrote:
In addition to only having a 50% win-rate. On the Korean ELO ranking in ZvZ he ranked 18th... ELO has a lot of problems but that's too far from number 1 to blame it on them. When you use ELO to try and make a point that's when you should stop honestly. And if you're gonna use Liquipedia filter out the online international cups and then improvise and give a rough estimate because they're not an even level playing field - If you play a European player on the NA server the Korean player will lag but the EU player won't hrm, looking at both TLPDs, symbol hasn't done much in ZvZ lately actually. his biggest ZvZ achievement is probably taking out nestea lol What about going on that monster streak in the last GSTL? Alot of them we're ZvZs you can argue that they were only bo1's but same applies to Yonghwa who was getting brown-nosed to the point of no-return he only did beat four zergs (moon, byul, losira, nestea) which isn't that many. in recent times, he has lost to hyun, drg, life and violet. i think hyun and life at least have posted better zvz results than symbol has recently
But none of them are shameful losses! People have this philosophy where if you lose 2 or 3 games you're automatically bad at that matchup, Parting had alot of critics after his up/downs but I always said he's still the king of PvT and he delivered and I'm positive Symbol will too.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On October 30 2012 11:41 Mackus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2012 11:29 opterown wrote:On October 30 2012 11:26 Mackus wrote:On October 30 2012 11:19 opterown wrote:On October 30 2012 11:16 Mackus wrote:On October 30 2012 11:11 JJH777 wrote:
In addition to only having a 50% win-rate. On the Korean ELO ranking in ZvZ he ranked 18th... ELO has a lot of problems but that's too far from number 1 to blame it on them. When you use ELO to try and make a point that's when you should stop honestly. And if you're gonna use Liquipedia filter out the online international cups and then improvise and give a rough estimate because they're not an even level playing field - If you play a European player on the NA server the Korean player will lag but the EU player won't hrm, looking at both TLPDs, symbol hasn't done much in ZvZ lately actually. his biggest ZvZ achievement is probably taking out nestea lol What about going on that monster streak in the last GSTL? Alot of them we're ZvZs you can argue that they were only bo1's but same applies to Yonghwa who was getting brown-nosed to the point of no-return he only did beat four zergs (moon, byul, losira, nestea) which isn't that many. in recent times, he has lost to hyun, drg, life and violet. i think hyun and life at least have posted better zvz results than symbol has recently But none of them are shameful losses! People have this philosophy where if you win 2 or 3 games you're automatically bad at that matchup, Parting had alot of critics after his up/downs but I always said he's still the king of PvT and he delivered and I'm positive Symbol will too.
you might not automatically become bad, but you certainly can lose the #1 spot ;p
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On October 30 2012 11:41 Mackus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2012 11:29 opterown wrote:On October 30 2012 11:26 Mackus wrote:On October 30 2012 11:19 opterown wrote:On October 30 2012 11:16 Mackus wrote:On October 30 2012 11:11 JJH777 wrote:
In addition to only having a 50% win-rate. On the Korean ELO ranking in ZvZ he ranked 18th... ELO has a lot of problems but that's too far from number 1 to blame it on them. When you use ELO to try and make a point that's when you should stop honestly. And if you're gonna use Liquipedia filter out the online international cups and then improvise and give a rough estimate because they're not an even level playing field - If you play a European player on the NA server the Korean player will lag but the EU player won't hrm, looking at both TLPDs, symbol hasn't done much in ZvZ lately actually. his biggest ZvZ achievement is probably taking out nestea lol What about going on that monster streak in the last GSTL? Alot of them we're ZvZs you can argue that they were only bo1's but same applies to Yonghwa who was getting brown-nosed to the point of no-return he only did beat four zergs (moon, byul, losira, nestea) which isn't that many. in recent times, he has lost to hyun, drg, life and violet. i think hyun and life at least have posted better zvz results than symbol has recently But none of them are shameful losses! People have this philosophy where if you lose 2 or 3 games you're automatically bad at that matchup, Parting had alot of critics after his up/downs but I always said he's still the king of PvT and he delivered and I'm positive Symbol will too.
It's not just 2 or 3 games. He only has a 50% win-rate in the matchup. There are several zergs with 65%+ win-rate in ZvZ. 2-3 games doesn't drop your win-rate by 15%.
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United States97277 Posts
On October 30 2012 11:14 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2012 11:13 dgwow wrote:On October 30 2012 11:09 PhoenixVoid wrote:On October 30 2012 11:04 Mackus wrote:
Roro is an extremely good player but he's up first against probably the best ZvZer on the planet and his TvZ he's only had 3 televised matches none against any T who are good at the matchup so it's hard to see where he'll get a win from
I'm going for Symbol and Happy. Since when was Symbol the best ZvZ'er on the planet? He is currently 5-1 against Nerchio and lost hard against HyuN in some qualifier. Symbol is nowhere near the master of ZvZ. Who are the best ZvZers now then? life -> hyun -> curious imo?
I would also list Leenock as a top tier ZvZ player although one of the FXO guys (either boss or unstable dont remember) said Leenock doesn't have a lot of confidence in the matchup
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On October 30 2012 12:24 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2012 11:14 opterown wrote:On October 30 2012 11:13 dgwow wrote:On October 30 2012 11:09 PhoenixVoid wrote:On October 30 2012 11:04 Mackus wrote:
Roro is an extremely good player but he's up first against probably the best ZvZer on the planet and his TvZ he's only had 3 televised matches none against any T who are good at the matchup so it's hard to see where he'll get a win from
I'm going for Symbol and Happy. Since when was Symbol the best ZvZ'er on the planet? He is currently 5-1 against Nerchio and lost hard against HyuN in some qualifier. Symbol is nowhere near the master of ZvZ. Who are the best ZvZers now then? life -> hyun -> curious imo? I would also list Leenock as a top tier ZvZ player although one of the FXO guys (either boss or unstable dont remember) said Leenock doesn't have a lot of confidence in the matchup
yeah unstable said leenock was rather flippy in the matchup, some weeks he dominates like heck and some others he feels unconfident haha
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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United States97277 Posts
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I really like the new stream quality at Twitch/own3d.
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Missed the games, but 2-0 to Symbol!
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On October 30 2012 19:03 ichnaschekot wrote:
I really like the new stream quality at Twitch/own3d.
dont get used to it!
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Poll: Recommend Roro vs Symbol game 1 ?Yes (8) 73% If you have time (2) 18% No (1) 9% 11 total votes Your vote: Recommend Roro vs Symbol game 1 ? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Roro vs Symbol game 2 ?Yes (15) 88% No (2) 12% If you have time (0) 0% 17 total votes Your vote: Recommend Roro vs Symbol game 2 ? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
Poll: Recommend Roro vs Symbol game 3 ?Yes (8) 89% If you have time (1) 11% No (0) 0% 9 total votes Your vote: Recommend Roro vs Symbol game 3 ? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time
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EPT
