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[IEM] Sao Paulo - Day 2 - Page 31

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
February 09 2012 21:18 GMT
#601
On February 10 2012 06:13 falafelnr1 wrote:
Can't understand how people think a system where all players in group doesn't have to play each other can be more fair than this.


i agree, this doesnt make any sense oO
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
February 09 2012 21:18 GMT
#602
On February 10 2012 06:11 MrCash wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2012 06:03 sVnteen wrote:
On February 10 2012 05:55 MrCash wrote:
On February 10 2012 05:53 00Visor wrote:
On February 10 2012 05:47 MrCash wrote:
Again, people still don't understand how this silly group stages go, this needs to go away.
There is still a chance slivko and snute both have a better score than ret, even though slivko already lost to ret.
Then it boils down to what is more important, map score or who beat who?
If slivko goes 5-3 and Ret ends up 4-3, SHOULD slivko still go down?
If so, why should he even try vs dakkon?
If not, how the hell is that fair to Ret that he beat someone, but they advanced because he won vs Dakkon, he actually had no incentive to try either?
Silly group system is silly.

tl;dr: Double elimination group stages ala GSL

not silly at all
if snute beats Ret its
Snute > Ret > Slivko > Snute

So every player beat another one, but one has to go down. Why is mapscore not fair then?


Because it's not Snute > Ret > Slivo > Snute,
but rather Slivko > Ret because he beat Dakkon 2-0 who's results didn't matter anymore (even though Slivko might win 2-0 if he played earlier just as easily). Assuming Ret gets 2-0ed by Snute.


i dont get your point at all -.-

if ret lost to snute and ALMOST LOST to slivko and wins vs dakkon why is it unfair if he goes down?

because slivko beat snute and ALMOST WON vs ret and wins vs dakkon (so he has better map score)
and snute won vs dakkon and ALMOST WON vs slivko and might win vs ret so he would have better map score as well (if he wins 2-0 at least i think if he goes 2-1 they are equal)

I dont get why you are saying that this would be unfair
(you mean just because dakkon has no reason to try anymore? because that is a) not true because he wants to proof himself at an international tournament at his home country and b) he would most likely go down 2-0 anyways as you said)


I made that pretty clear. You can't simply look at who beat who, by how many maps.
If you take the names out of the equation, maybe it can eliminate some bias.
Player 1 wins first 2 bo3.
Player 4 lost first 2 bo3 - He is out 100%.
Player 2 and 3 are in limbo.
If player 3 Beats player 4, when player 4 has nothing to gain (think Naniwa), and knocks out Player 1, is that fair?

Other way to look at it:
3 Player go 2-1 in their 3 bo3.
The 1 played his bo3 first, and went 5-3.
The 2 played his bo3 2nd and went 5-2.
The 3 played his bo3 last went 5-1, because he played an opponent who was out and didn't care to play.
1 beat 3, 1 is still out.

The point is, the best player doesn't move on, the player who got the most map wins, for non-consistent reasons, advances.

Thats a good point as well. Maybe GSL system is ok GSL, because player skills are somewhat equal. But in a tournamen like IEM where player skills within one group are that different it would be terrible.
Off-season = best season
fabiano
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Brazil4644 Posts
February 09 2012 21:18 GMT
#603
I see Bisu's hair on snute's head
"When the geyser died, a probe came out" - SirJolt
yiNyO
Profile Joined February 2011
132 Posts
February 09 2012 21:18 GMT
#604
mr.cash is way to stupid to understand the most simple format ever



User was warned for this post
m0ck
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
4194 Posts
February 09 2012 21:19 GMT
#605
..and he won the match by bling-busting
00Visor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
4337 Posts
February 09 2012 21:19 GMT
#606
On February 10 2012 06:11 MrCash wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2012 06:03 sVnteen wrote:
On February 10 2012 05:55 MrCash wrote:
On February 10 2012 05:53 00Visor wrote:
On February 10 2012 05:47 MrCash wrote:
Again, people still don't understand how this silly group stages go, this needs to go away.
There is still a chance slivko and snute both have a better score than ret, even though slivko already lost to ret.
Then it boils down to what is more important, map score or who beat who?
If slivko goes 5-3 and Ret ends up 4-3, SHOULD slivko still go down?
If so, why should he even try vs dakkon?
If not, how the hell is that fair to Ret that he beat someone, but they advanced because he won vs Dakkon, he actually had no incentive to try either?
Silly group system is silly.

tl;dr: Double elimination group stages ala GSL

not silly at all
if snute beats Ret its
Snute > Ret > Slivko > Snute

So every player beat another one, but one has to go down. Why is mapscore not fair then?


Because it's not Snute > Ret > Slivo > Snute,
but rather Slivko > Ret because he beat Dakkon 2-0 who's results didn't matter anymore (even though Slivko might win 2-0 if he played earlier just as easily). Assuming Ret gets 2-0ed by Snute.


i dont get your point at all -.-

if ret lost to snute and ALMOST LOST to slivko and wins vs dakkon why is it unfair if he goes down?

because slivko beat snute and ALMOST WON vs ret and wins vs dakkon (so he has better map score)
and snute won vs dakkon and ALMOST WON vs slivko and might win vs ret so he would have better map score as well (if he wins 2-0 at least i think if he goes 2-1 they are equal)

I dont get why you are saying that this would be unfair
(you mean just because dakkon has no reason to try anymore? because that is a) not true because he wants to proof himself at an international tournament at his home country and b) he would most likely go down 2-0 anyways as you said)


The 1 played his bo3 first, and went 5-3.
The 2 played his bo3 2nd and went 5-2.
The 3 played his bo3 last went 5-1, because he played an opponent who was out and didn't care to play.
1 beat 3, 1 is still out.


OK. You could have made the point clear a bit earlier .
It`s right that this is a problem of round robin.
But in this case Dakkon seems to be way behind in skill of the other players (+ he wants to show the local crowd not too bad games), so this isn't something to complain about this time.
Champloo
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1850 Posts
February 09 2012 21:19 GMT
#607
ESL system is the fairest possible way.

But GSL system is more exciting for the viewer.
dmnum
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Brazil6910 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-09 21:26:16
February 09 2012 21:22 GMT
#608
On February 10 2012 06:18 fabiano wrote:
I see Bisu's hair on snute's head

I don't, though snute has great hair
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
February 09 2012 21:23 GMT
#609
On February 10 2012 06:17 Vadrigar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2012 06:11 MrCash wrote:
On February 10 2012 06:03 sVnteen wrote:
On February 10 2012 05:55 MrCash wrote:
On February 10 2012 05:53 00Visor wrote:
On February 10 2012 05:47 MrCash wrote:
Again, people still don't understand how this silly group stages go, this needs to go away.
There is still a chance slivko and snute both have a better score than ret, even though slivko already lost to ret.
Then it boils down to what is more important, map score or who beat who?
If slivko goes 5-3 and Ret ends up 4-3, SHOULD slivko still go down?
If so, why should he even try vs dakkon?
If not, how the hell is that fair to Ret that he beat someone, but they advanced because he won vs Dakkon, he actually had no incentive to try either?
Silly group system is silly.

tl;dr: Double elimination group stages ala GSL

not silly at all
if snute beats Ret its
Snute > Ret > Slivko > Snute

So every player beat another one, but one has to go down. Why is mapscore not fair then?


Because it's not Snute > Ret > Slivo > Snute,
but rather Slivko > Ret because he beat Dakkon 2-0 who's results didn't matter anymore (even though Slivko might win 2-0 if he played earlier just as easily). Assuming Ret gets 2-0ed by Snute.


i dont get your point at all -.-

if ret lost to snute and ALMOST LOST to slivko and wins vs dakkon why is it unfair if he goes down?

because slivko beat snute and ALMOST WON vs ret and wins vs dakkon (so he has better map score)
and snute won vs dakkon and ALMOST WON vs slivko and might win vs ret so he would have better map score as well (if he wins 2-0 at least i think if he goes 2-1 they are equal)

I dont get why you are saying that this would be unfair
(you mean just because dakkon has no reason to try anymore? because that is a) not true because he wants to proof himself at an international tournament at his home country and b) he would most likely go down 2-0 anyways as you said)


I made that pretty clear. You can't simply look at who beat who, by how many maps.
If you take the names out of the equation, maybe it can eliminate some bias.
Player 1 wins first 2 bo3.
Player 4 lost first 2 bo3 - He is out 100%.
Player 2 and 3 are in limbo.
If player 3 Beats player 4, when player 4 has nothing to gain (think Naniwa), and knocks out Player 1, is that fair?

Other way to look at it:
3 Player go 2-1 in their 3 bo3.
The 1 played his bo3 first, and went 5-3.
The 2 played his bo3 2nd and went 5-2.
The 3 played his bo3 last went 5-1, because he played an opponent who was out and didn't care to play.
1 beat 3, 1 is still out.

The point is, the best player doesn't move on, the player who got the most map wins, for non-consistent reasons, advances.

dude, just stop. You DON'T GET it.
Player 1,2 and 3 beat 4 2:0.
Player 1 beats 2- 2:1
Player 3 beats 1- 2:1
Player 2 beats 3- 2:0
1 and 2 advance. THAT was the scenario, but it won't happen because Ret will roll Snute.

I think his point is that matches happen at different times and this affects the outcome somewhat, which is fair criticism.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
Eee
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden2712 Posts
February 09 2012 21:24 GMT
#610
On February 10 2012 06:22 dmnum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2012 06:18 fabiano wrote:
I see Bisu's hair on snute's head

I don't, thought snute has great hair

You're saying Bisu doesn't have great hair?
clusen
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany8702 Posts
February 09 2012 21:24 GMT
#611
that was a huge bling hit
dmnum
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Brazil6910 Posts
February 09 2012 21:26 GMT
#612
On February 10 2012 06:24 Eee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2012 06:22 dmnum wrote:
On February 10 2012 06:18 fabiano wrote:
I see Bisu's hair on snute's head

I don't, though snute has great hair

You're saying Bisu doesn't have great hair?

Oh the difference one letter makes. I meant though, not thought. Both have great hair but bisu is longer.
garbanzo
Profile Joined October 2009
United States4046 Posts
February 09 2012 21:27 GMT
#613
Ret kills another player for over-droning... It's opposite day or something.

Go Ret! Great job dude!
Even during difficult times, when I sat down to play the game, there were times where it felt like god has descended down and played [for me].
pred470r
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Bulgaria3265 Posts
February 09 2012 21:27 GMT
#614
Game ends, stream dies.
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
February 09 2012 21:28 GMT
#615
Ret took a year of experience of being killed for overdroning and now does it to everyone else.
corpuscle
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States1967 Posts
February 09 2012 21:28 GMT
#616
On February 10 2012 06:27 pred470r wrote:
Game ends, stream dies.


It's fine for me.
From the void I am born into wave and particle
greycubed
Profile Joined May 2010
United States615 Posts
February 09 2012 21:28 GMT
#617
Jeez - Brazilian players 1-16 now.
http://i.imgur.com/N3ujB.png
Lysanias
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands8351 Posts
February 09 2012 21:29 GMT
#618
On February 10 2012 06:27 garbanzo wrote:
Ret kills another player for over-droning... It's opposite day or something.

Go Ret! Great job dude!


Considering he generaly is so passive, players might feel over confident in droning against Ret.
SASBC
Profile Joined February 2012
Brazil101 Posts
February 09 2012 21:30 GMT
#619
On February 10 2012 06:28 greycubed wrote:
Jeez - Brazilian players 1-16 now.

Lamp, Reason and Fortune didnt play the qualifers. Lamp recently beat Dragon, Drewbie, etc Reason beat Macsed and Fortune is an awesome player (you can check out his liquipedia page)
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
February 09 2012 21:30 GMT
#620
gg for Ret, glad he got first in his group.
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