On October 23 2011 01:09 red4ce wrote: Damn, I've missed nearly the entire tournament. Oh well at least I'll get to watch the conclusion. Stephano should beat MKP without too much trouble. Top zergs shouldn't lose to terrans these days as long as the game gets past the 10 minute mark. Mana vs Grubby is intriguing, but PvP is still PvP. Winner of that has a better chance against Stephano than MKP will, but ultimately the zerg should still win.
Top zergs shouldn't lost to top terrans?
Nope. 80% of TvZ's end the same way these days. Once zerg has 4-6 bases going they are nearly unstoppable because they can remax their armies instantly. This forces terran to do their usual bunker rush/hellion harass/2-3 base marine/tank push. While the game itself can last 20+ minutes, the outcome is essentially decided by the success or failure of the Terran's first attack. Ever since barracks time was decreased and BFH nerf, early game Terran is no longer OP so zergs have gotten extremely good at defending whatever comes their way as long as they know what's coming. That's why I said "as long as the game gets past the 10 minute mark." Of course if you're MVP then you can take on a zerg with pure macro, but that's MVP. We all know MKP isn't capable of pulling that off.
Terrans do fine vs Zerg late game if they on decent eco since ghosts fair well against broods/infestors and mmm does decently well against ultras. The only time Terrans have a super hard time is when they already behind coming into late game.
bomber is probably best macro terran on the world (it was funny to watch him outmacro every toss in worker production despite of them having chronoboost) but he still couldnt match with idras macro lategame, no matter how good you are zerg always has inherit macro advantage over you in passive game , thats why early harass is so important and if u fail you probably will going to lose later.
Actually he kept up for the most part. In G3, Bomber got a 3rd lifted off right as Idra was starting his third. Bomber had a huge macro advantage. Idra just had amazing engagements and muta harass to take that win. All those ling runbys worked out so well.
On October 23 2011 01:34 HappyChris wrote: Dude, No need for insults. The fact of the matter is Im right. Its an international tournament but you dont even got english speaking commentators live at the event wtf??
You could basically have held this online but us as viewers gets to see nothing from the actually event.
The world isn't forced to speak english. Koreans don't provide english casters for their SC:BW event and nobody is whining about it. It's in France, they speak french because organizer speak french. It's a world cup not a SC 2 event. Bringing english casters means bringing over 6 pairs of casters, for very little impact. Their provide provide english streamers off-site and even modified the planning to make sure almost all games could be streamed.
On October 23 2011 01:21 marcesr wrote: Besides interviews I have seen no footage of the event at all. Whats wrong with this? I thought this would be a huge event? Will at least the finals include some player footage? Im a bit disappointed.
Remember the tournament is in French and they seem to be living in there own world. There is pleanty of interviews etc but all in French.
They really need to start getting outside there own little bubble
You are mentally challenged, aren't you ?
There are numerous SC 2 portals covering the events and even more generic portals covering all the competitions.
Still ESWC should be able to use the language which is the best for the most fans and not a minority. And that's English, even when you french don't like to hear that. Sorry. Apart from that the production value of this event is pretty horrible compared to MLG, IEM, IPL or Dreamhack. On the other hand the bracket is pretty amazing at the moment. But enough of that.
About Stephano vs MKP: I'm so fucking hyped for this match. MKP is easily the favorite here, one of the best TvZ players in the world. Can Stephano adapt to MKP's special TvZ style? Or will MKP crush Stephano with ease? Pumped to see the outcome tomorrow.
On October 23 2011 01:34 HappyChris wrote: Dude, No need for insults. The fact of the matter is Im right. Its an international tournament but you dont even got english speaking commentators live at the event wtf??
You could basically have held this online but us as viewers gets to see nothing from the actually event.
The world isn't forced to speak english. Koreans don't provide english casters for their SC:BW event and nobody is whining about it. It's in France, they speak french because organizer speak french. It's a world cup not a SC 2 event. Bringing english casters means bringing over 6 pairs of casters, for very little impact. Their provide provide english streamers off-site and even modified the planning to make sure almost all games could be streamed.
So my advice is : Deal with it !
It's still epic that we don't see anything of the event.
On October 23 2011 01:54 Vira wrote: For the record, Stephano already won against marineking 2-1 online at the IPL qualifier.
And stephano beat the stc and boxer at ipl, but then they both beat him at mlg. Can't read too much into 1 bo3, especially since the ipl qualifier one was online.
On October 23 2011 01:09 red4ce wrote: Damn, I've missed nearly the entire tournament. Oh well at least I'll get to watch the conclusion. Stephano should beat MKP without too much trouble. Top zergs shouldn't lose to terrans these days as long as the game gets past the 10 minute mark. Mana vs Grubby is intriguing, but PvP is still PvP. Winner of that has a better chance against Stephano than MKP will, but ultimately the zerg should still win.
Top zergs shouldn't lost to top terrans?
Nope. 80% of TvZ's end the same way these days. Once zerg has 4-6 bases going they are nearly unstoppable because they can remax their armies instantly. This forces terran to do their usual bunker rush/hellion harass/2-3 base marine/tank push. While the game itself can last 20+ minutes, the outcome is essentially decided by the success or failure of the Terran's first attack. Ever since barracks time was decreased and BFH nerf, early game Terran is no longer OP so zergs have gotten extremely good at defending whatever comes their way as long as they know what's coming. That's why I said "as long as the game gets past the 10 minute mark." Of course if you're MVP then you can take on a zerg with pure macro, but that's MVP. We all know MKP isn't capable of pulling that off.
On October 23 2011 01:09 red4ce wrote: Damn, I've missed nearly the entire tournament. Oh well at least I'll get to watch the conclusion. Stephano should beat MKP without too much trouble. Top zergs shouldn't lose to terrans these days as long as the game gets past the 10 minute mark. Mana vs Grubby is intriguing, but PvP is still PvP. Winner of that has a better chance against Stephano than MKP will, but ultimately the zerg should still win.
Stephano has recently lost to theSTC and Boxer with the latter being quite a shock for everyone really.
And I have no idea what you meant by top zergs not losing to terrans... I mean, you can just look at recent GSL results and even with the terran killer DRG.
Again, notice I said "as long as the game gets past the 10 minute mark." TheSTC and Boxer's wins against zergs were all thanks to their early game shenanigans.
You'd think with 4k posts you'd know not to balance whine in every thread. Very strange statements.
Oh , that was just to remember they already play each other, and I never said Stephano will win , it's probably worst for Stephano actually ; MKP will be more carefull..
On October 23 2011 01:34 HappyChris wrote: Dude, No need for insults. The fact of the matter is Im right. Its an international tournament but you dont even got english speaking commentators live at the event wtf??
You could basically have held this online but us as viewers gets to see nothing from the actually event.
The world isn't forced to speak english. Koreans don't provide english casters for their SC:BW event and nobody is whining about it. It's in France, they speak french because organizer speak french. It's a world cup not a SC 2 event. Bringing english casters means bringing over 6 pairs of casters, for very little impact. Their provide provide english streamers off-site and even modified the planning to make sure almost all games could be streamed.
So my advice is : Deal with it !
It's still epic that we don't see anything of the event.
On October 23 2011 01:09 red4ce wrote: Damn, I've missed nearly the entire tournament. Oh well at least I'll get to watch the conclusion. Stephano should beat MKP without too much trouble. Top zergs shouldn't lose to terrans these days as long as the game gets past the 10 minute mark. Mana vs Grubby is intriguing, but PvP is still PvP. Winner of that has a better chance against Stephano than MKP will, but ultimately the zerg should still win.
Top zergs shouldn't lost to top terrans?
Nope. 80% of TvZ's end the same way these days. Once zerg has 4-6 bases going they are nearly unstoppable because they can remax their armies instantly. This forces terran to do their usual bunker rush/hellion harass/2-3 base marine/tank push. While the game itself can last 20+ minutes, the outcome is essentially decided by the success or failure of the Terran's first attack. Ever since barracks time was decreased and BFH nerf, early game Terran is no longer OP so zergs have gotten extremely good at defending whatever comes their way as long as they know what's coming. That's why I said "as long as the game gets past the 10 minute mark." Of course if you're MVP then you can take on a zerg with pure macro, but that's MVP. We all know MKP isn't capable of pulling that off.
Terrans do fine vs Zerg late game if they on decent eco since ghosts fair well against broods/infestors and mmm does decently well against ultras. The only time Terrans have a super hard time is when they already behind coming into late game.
bomber is probably best macro terran on the world (it was funny to watch him outmacro every toss in worker production despite of them having chronoboost) but he still couldnt match with idras macro lategame, no matter how good you are zerg always has inherit macro advantage over you in passive game , thats why early harass is so important and if u fail you probably will going to lose later.
Actually he kept up for the most part. In G3, Bomber got a 3rd lifted off right as Idra was starting his third. Bomber had a huge macro advantage. Idra just had amazing engagements and muta harass to take that win. All those ling runbys worked out so well.
I think it's well-accepted that if you try to play passive against a macro Zerg, you will lose.
Bomber had a good showing in those games, but let's not kid ourselves here: the games really showed nothing more than for the fact that an insane macro Terran (like Bomber) can only just keep up with a macro Zerg. I don't know what would have happened had IdrA not sniped those upgrades in G1 -- maybe Bomber would have won -- but trying to play passive against a Zerg is not the way to go. If you can't remember, Bomber's low-pressure macro style has lost him games before against lesser players like Moon and Destiny, both of whom have decent macro at best. Also, he tried to play this same style against NesTea -- harharhar, outmacroing NesTea with no pressure? -- and again, it was close, but he still lost.
Bomber can destroy DRG because Bomber's late-game is his strength and DRG's late-game is extremely weak compared to his early- and mid-game, which has been noted before by MVP and Supernova as well as Bomber. (Also, Bomber actually did harass and apply pressure on DRG, which he didn't do against IdrA.) Trying to play macro against IdrA is a commendable, admirable decision, and it was certainly impressive that he still almost beat IdrA, but it's just not how you should play TvZ, I feel. And I know everyone likes to say MVP (with the best TvZ in the world) plays "passive" against Zerg too, but he really doesn't; he does econ damage through direct/indirect pressure and harassment, because he knows that not doing so means he'll lose the game. I mean, maybe Bomber's onto something that I can't see, but for the most part, I feel that series was just more of Bomber being stubborn with his playstyle than anything else. His macro is out of the world, but unfortunately, that isn't enough to win you the game.
EDIT: Can't watch this since I'm in the library, but I'm glad to see Grubby doing so well!
EPT
