On August 02 2011 16:55 HolyArrow wrote:
The funny thing is that people assume MC will be able to figure out a consistent counter to the 1-1-1 all-in. It's been around for ages and no Protoss seems to have a consistent answer yet. Why would MC figure something out at such an arbitrary time when the all-in has still been effective for so long?

Well b/c he's MC. The Protoss President. Who has revolutionize the Protoss's play style back in the day he won GSL with 6 gates timing attack, show ppl how to use FFs, Stargates phoenix opening vs both Zerg and terran. If anyone has changed and helped protoss the most, that's must be MC.

Oh, I definitely agree that MC has been the hero of Protoss and seems to have pioneered so many different things for Toss. But that doesn't change the fact that the 1-1-1 all-in has been so effective for so long, thus my doubt that MC will find a way to consistently deal with it in less than a week. But I'd love to be proven wrong, since I'm tired of seeing it work so much.

1-1-1 is not unbeatable. the key is to be able to scout and find out early that he is doing 1-1-1. Early Pressure like 3 or 4 gates, blink stalker rush or fast HT can defeat the build since it has one of the weakest openings (just marines)

I never said it was unbeatable. My point is to mention that no consistent solution has been found. You make it sound so simple and easy to deal with, but it doesn't change the fact that we saw Inca, Tassadar, and anyPro get 1-1-1'd into oblivion in the Up/Downs, we saw MC fall to it when Bomber did it, and IIRC (I may be wrong about this one) Ganzi did it to HuK at MLG Anaheim. We've seen Genius fall to it from Rain a good while back. Puzzle died to it on his stream recently. It's definitely not unbeatable but it's definitely really hard to hold off, which is why I say that no consistent solution has been found for it.

alrite i have to agree with you that its hard to hold off the 1-1-1 timing push. However i would like to bring out the fact that its hard if you are turtling or playing FE. I am actually a terran myself and i have a high win rate against protoss who plays FE without proper scouting. However terran players themselves is also taking a great risk against early pressure/push aggressive play by protoss if they decide to do 1-1-1. Early blink stalkers especially, when they can blink into ur base ignoring ur early wall in, n also targetting down your early banshee easily.

So you're saying the way to beat the 1-1-1 allin is to do a faster allin? :p

its not necessary an all in. but an early pressure/observer play into expansion is better than you do some greedy FE build to hold off 1-1-1. At least u need to be able to defend or preferably kill the first cloacked/uncloacked banshee then it will make life alot harder for the terran.

opening blink stalker is horrible against terran. even if the terran is going 1-1-1. getting a robo too? suicide

i had tested it out. you will have your blink stalkers just slightly later than terran's first banshee is out. and u can surprise the terran, killing his banshee with ur blinks in a blink of an eye lol. After his 1st banshee died, he will need quite some time to prepare his siegetanks and wat more a raven. You will have plenty of time to get prepared or apply more pressure to the terran. Furthermore, if the game is dragged to mid/late game, blink stalkers are good if you blink into their sieged up tanks line, they will hurt themselves with their splash damage. And of course i do not mean that u ONLY have blink stalkers till the end, mix in some psi storms and chargelots for their marines and banshees. yes u will the edge or at least an even game.
I am not making this up tho, i had experienced this just that i dont have replays now

Black Gun

Germany4482 Posts

August 02 2011 11:30 GMT

#1983

groups A, B, C and E are really sick. particularly group B, which I'd call group of death.

Mista_Masta

Netherlands557 Posts

August 02 2011 11:36 GMT

#1984

Group B is definitely the strongest group in theory, with 3 GSL winners. Kinda sad that at least one of them will go to up/down...

darcevader88

Canada648 Posts

August 02 2011 12:10 GMT

#1985

On August 02 2011 20:36 Mista_Masta wrote:
Group B is definitely the strongest group in theory, with 3 GSL winners. Kinda sad that at least one of them will go to up/down...

i thought top 3 didn't go to up/down and only the #4 guy did?
edit: to clarify, i know only 2 go on to the next round but i thought #3 was safe but #4 went to up/down

plutonowy

Afghanistan287 Posts

August 02 2011 12:15 GMT

#1986

MMA vs Nestea and MC vs MVP LOL
that could be finals of semis easlie ;/

TVUmK

United States91 Posts

August 02 2011 12:28 GMT

#1987

Group A looks good, cant wait to see MMA vs NesTea. MMA has shown some great TvZ in the past (notably vs DRG at MLG Anaheim, and vs Losira at MLG Colombus), and it will be cool to see how he fares vs NesTea.

Nevarix

Sweden294 Posts

August 02 2011 13:28 GMT

#1988

On August 02 2011 21:10 darcevader88 wrote:

Show nested quote +

i thought top 3 didn't go to up/down and only the #4 guy did?
edit: to clarify, i know only 2 go on to the next round but i thought #3 was safe but #4 went to up/down

Assuming that they havent changed the system again, you are correct.

NexUmbra

Scotland3776 Posts

August 02 2011 14:58 GMT

#1989

On August 02 2011 21:10 darcevader88 wrote:

Show nested quote +

i thought top 3 didn't go to up/down and only the #4 guy did?
edit: to clarify, i know only 2 go on to the next round but i thought #3 was safe but #4 went to up/down

Yes, which is exactly what he just says...

Binabik

Germany686 Posts

August 02 2011 15:03 GMT

#1990

On August 02 2011 18:54 gengka wrote:
i had tested it out. you will have your blink stalkers just slightly later than terran's first banshee is out. and u can surprise the terran, killing his banshee with ur blinks in a blink of an eye lol. After his 1st banshee died, he will need quite some time to prepare his siegetanks and wat more a raven. You will have plenty of time to get prepared or apply more pressure to the terran. Furthermore, if the game is dragged to mid/late game, blink stalkers are good if you blink into their sieged up tanks line, they will hurt themselves with their splash damage. And of course i do not mean that u ONLY have blink stalkers till the end, mix in some psi storms and chargelots for their marines and banshees. yes u will the edge or at least an even game.
I am not making this up tho, i had experienced this just that i dont have replays now

You won't have any detection for his first banshee ._.
And if your opponent lets his banshee die to Blink Stalkers he's not higher than Diamond.

Psi Storm/Charge/Blink cost 550/550 btw, are you serious? No way you can afford that, because then you don't even have any High Templar...

And we are still talking about someone who could just go for an inbase expansion, because you can't scout him before the 8 minute mark (cloak means that you can't scout with the first observer)

Kimaker

United States2131 Posts

August 02 2011 19:05 GMT

#1991

Group B=Group of Death

Though quite frankly all of these groups are stacked...

gideel

1503 Posts

August 02 2011 19:25 GMT

#1992

My picks:

Group A:
+ Show Spoiler +

NesTea
(Z)

Kyrix
MMA
(T)

Happy

Group B:
+ Show Spoiler +

MC
MVP
(T)

Polt

Noblesse

Group C:
+ Show Spoiler +

Bomber
(Z)

viOlet
HuK
(P)

Killer

Group D:
+ Show Spoiler +

CoCa

Keen
NaDa
Alicia

Group E:
+ Show Spoiler +

Byun

Zenio

asd
Puzzle

Group F:
+ Show Spoiler +

Trickster
Ryung
(T)

aLive

TOP

Group G:
+ Show Spoiler +

HongUn
Virus
Clide
(T)

SuperNoVa

Group H:
+ Show Spoiler +

LosirA
(T)

Ensnare
July
(P)

Genius

Bezelheim

Canada61 Posts

August 02 2011 19:33 GMT

#1993

On August 02 2011 23:58 NexUmbra wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yes, which is exactly what he just says...

He says "...3 GSL winners. Kinda sad that at least one of them will go to up/down...". There are 4 players in a group. He's saying that one of the GSL winners must go to up/down, meaning either the fourth member is going to make it (no way to know that, and the chances are very unlikely anyway), or that two people are going down.

Go MVP and MC, two of my favorite players!