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On July 26 2011 09:18 scudst0rm wrote:
I feel that Nestea will be doing some serious mind games like he did with CoCa. Only this time it will be even worse since he already knows Losiras play style inside and out.
That's how I feel :| I'm pumped for Nestea v. Losira but I just can't help but feel that it's going to be terribly one sided..
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nestea 3rd time GSL champ calling it now!!
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On July 25 2011 12:39 SafeAsCheese wrote:Hongun won't blink as well as MC  Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 12:32 Ezze wrote:On July 25 2011 12:24 gustavohmp wrote:
HAD IT BEEN Nestea vs Byun and HongUn vs Losira, I would be 100% SURE the finals would be Nestea vs Losira
HongUn abusive style CAN and probably WILL take out Nestea. It wouldnt even flinch Losira but Nestea is shaky vs abusive Protoss, I say this because of his match against San is that GSL that I forgot what month happened. Its old, and its only one game, but its the only time I remember Nestea losing to Protoss, so thats that.
Losira has AWFUL ZvT and, well, I dont know how Byuns TvZ is, but if he is any good at late game management, Losira is bound to fall. To me, Losira greatest strenght is deflecting bullshit. Looking back to his games vs MMA in MLG, I fear Losira wont advance today.
I expect great and memorable games tonight. I believe all of them (well maybe not HungUn) deserve a spot in the finals and Ill be cheering for the best even though I think it is time to a ZvZ finals, with both players from the same team, no less. The San game you're referring to was one of the LEAST ABUSIVE protoss games I've ever seen. San basically was massing expansions and destroyed Nestea with unit control and positioning. So I have no clue what you're talking about son. NesTea went muta, but was not able to harass with them at all because every time he went into Sans base, a HT warped in and stormed. He WOULD have lost without amulet, it's not even questionable. That series made me rage even harder than IdrA vs Cruncher on old Shakuras
Okay what's with all the San bashing lately (in the team league, now here too?). Yes San is not doing well now (slump?) but his games were decent (arguably though his Ro16, Ro8, and Ro4 games weren't too impressive in GSL march but that game vs Nestea was impressive).
San vs Nestea.
Here's a basically summary of the entire events of the game (I was going to rewatch that game sometime anyway >.>).
+ Show Spoiler +
A major thing to note is that he did a timing attack with a lot of stalkers and sentries at around 10 minutes and prevented his third hatch from going. This probably determined the outcome of the game greatly.
I rewatch that game and San used Blink stalkers to defend mutalisks. He didn't even get amulet until 20-21 minute mark (game timer). Even once he got amulet, he used Blink stalkers to defend the harass at 23 minute mark. It wasn't until 25 minutes until amulet may have been taken advantaged of (though take note there were 4 templars out ever since the 20 minute mark which meant they probably had max energy already). Finally the muta harass at the 28 minute mark was repelled by Stalkers again.
He started DT harass at 21 minutes and continued the rest of the game (this helped a lot).
He used a lot of Archons (didn't rely much on warp in storms. Again he only used storm at 25 minutes but take note those were from old templars which were warped in 5 minutes prior).
He only "really" abused and taken advantage of Amulet at 30-31 minute mark (when the Mothership first appears) so far. Take note the Archon toilet was used to kill 6 Brood Lords but San had a lot of stalkers coming in so he probably could have easily taken out those BL even without archon toilet.
At 36 minutes, he uses warp in templars to..... feedback overseers >.>. Even without Amulet, templars have enough energy to warp in feedback.
At 37 minute mark (one minute later), he uses warp in amulet templar to storm a mineral line of about 7 drones (gets a couple).
39 minute repeats another amulet storm (gets around 4 drones). So here he abuses amulet again but not for much gain.
40-41 minute - He feedbacks overseers and lands just "four" storms (one storm missed, two were against ultralisks).
Vortex but no archon toilet (banelings were in it). However there was another vortex against the 9 or so corruptors which was archon toileted. However he still had a ton of archons and stalkers leftover so he probably would have dealt with that easily regardless.
42 minute 20 second mark - Nestea 90 supply while San at 140. Basically GG.
44 minutes and around 20 seconds - Nestea GGs.
Honestly he probably been able to win the game even with the current patch.
He used archons a lot which would have been better now with the +1 range. Of course Infestor would have been buffed with the new Fungal (but slowed, after Infestor patch move speed was reduced by 0.25).
The only major factor is that I agree that Nestea probably underestimated him however San played a great game and was microing, macroing, harassing, basically everything well throughout the entire game.
Point is he defeat Nestea fairly (even though Nestea underestimated him). No he didn't win "solely" because of Amulet or the Archon toilet. He didn't even abuse amulet or the archon toilet that much (again rewatch the game).
Maybe you can say if Nestea knew there was no amulet, he would have been more aggressive (though Nestea was already aggressive and denied by Blink stalkers several times) or San would have played differently. There's too much variables to debate on that fact.
Of course again I agree Nestea played too passive early on and underestimated San but the point is San did not really abuse any gameplay imbalances in that game to win. Game needs to be watched and one needs to take note of the time he uses warp in storms or so (I listed all occurrences which I've seen).
Anyway I'm just tired of the San bashing which is why I'm made this post. San is not a super good player but at the same time he's not a bad player that relied on amulet (he still did good in WC and did decently against MVP, near winning the 4th set[you can rewatch since WC is free]).
As for the question of "would a good player be in Code B"? Well currently, Code B players can easily defeat Code S players (see team league). San doing bad in a few matches in a row does not mean he's a bad player (lots of players hit slumps or have periods where they play several bad games in a row). He's shown he's capable of being a decent to good player.
Finally I do agree Nestea is currently a better player than San but the discussion was whether San is a bad player and I'd say he's not a bad player and he did not get as far as he did solely because of amulet.
Ok this is the real finally >.> - While San did not use amulet much in the Nestea game (again a basic summary and play by play of the game is listed above) I do know he used them extensively in other games like vs sCfOu. Though an important thing to note is if there was no amulet, San would have played the game differently and we do not know how well San would have played then (against sC). We know he's decent without it (see San vs IMMVP. In the one macro game, he did well. Though he lost 2 games due to failed attempts at all ins/cheese >.<).. So that's another thing I'd like to point out.
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Why does tastosis say Nestea taught Losira everything lol, Losira said that it isn't true.
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While people are certainly jumping the gun on the "bonjwa" thing, I think Nestea is going to be taking this pretty easily. You give him a full week to pick apart Losira's play? GGNORE
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On July 26 2011 09:26 alks wrote:
Why does tastosis say Nestea taught Losira everything lol, Losira said that it isn't true.
Well he obviously didn't teach him everything but it is no coinsedence that 2 of the worlds best zergs are on the same team. Training with Nestea is bound to help any zerg player out immensely.
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On July 26 2011 09:26 Loki57 wrote:
While people are certainly jumping the gun on the "bonjwa" thing, I think Nestea is going to be taking this pretty easily. You give him a full week to pick apart Losira's play? GGNORE
and losira doesnt have a week to pick apart nestea? also losira stated in his interviews that nestea doesn't offer him help, but when losira asks for help he glady helps him. Their styles are different and nestea didnt teach losira everything..
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On July 26 2011 09:18 scudst0rm wrote:
I feel that Nestea will be doing some serious mind games like he did with CoCa. Only this time it will be even worse since he already knows Losiras play style inside and out.
Then again, Losira probably knows his mind games better than anyone, so his lethal standard zvz might shine against him. I don't think it will be one sided at all, and I'd give a small edge to losira. It still wouldnt surprise me if nestea just straight 4-0's him either tho, its ZvN after all.
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Calling it now.
Another horribly boring GSL finals.
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lol.
Wonder if Byun will now switch to Zerg after losing 3-0!
...and a ZvZ finals will be exceptionally boring I'm thinking =/
NesTea FTW ofc.
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sure hongun pulls something epic off. hes our last hope
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On July 26 2011 09:23 uub3r wrote:
nestea 3rd time GSL champ calling it now!!
What a bold and provocative call.
ZvZ finals, I love it. Will be happy no matter who wins.
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Anyone else super sad that we were robbed of Nestea vs. MC and Losira vs. Bomber?
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On July 26 2011 09:24 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 12:39 SafeAsCheese wrote:Hongun won't blink as well as MC On July 25 2011 12:32 Ezze wrote:On July 25 2011 12:24 gustavohmp wrote:
HAD IT BEEN Nestea vs Byun and HongUn vs Losira, I would be 100% SURE the finals would be Nestea vs Losira
HongUn abusive style CAN and probably WILL take out Nestea. It wouldnt even flinch Losira but Nestea is shaky vs abusive Protoss, I say this because of his match against San is that GSL that I forgot what month happened. Its old, and its only one game, but its the only time I remember Nestea losing to Protoss, so thats that.
Losira has AWFUL ZvT and, well, I dont know how Byuns TvZ is, but if he is any good at late game management, Losira is bound to fall. To me, Losira greatest strenght is deflecting bullshit. Looking back to his games vs MMA in MLG, I fear Losira wont advance today.
I expect great and memorable games tonight. I believe all of them (well maybe not HungUn) deserve a spot in the finals and Ill be cheering for the best even though I think it is time to a ZvZ finals, with both players from the same team, no less. The San game you're referring to was one of the LEAST ABUSIVE protoss games I've ever seen. San basically was massing expansions and destroyed Nestea with unit control and positioning. So I have no clue what you're talking about son. NesTea went muta, but was not able to harass with them at all because every time he went into Sans base, a HT warped in and stormed. He WOULD have lost without amulet, it's not even questionable. That series made me rage even harder than IdrA vs Cruncher on old Shakuras Okay what's with all the San bashing lately (in the team league, now here too?). Yes San is not doing well now (slump?) but his games were decent (arguably though his Ro16, Ro8, and Ro4 games weren't too impressive in GSL march but that game vs Nestea was impressive).
This post was soo... awesome, especially since I just rewatched that game myself...
I need to copy and paste this next time someone bashes San and I agree with the sentiment that the San bashing is uncalled for... no idea where it came from to be honest.
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On July 26 2011 09:24 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 12:39 SafeAsCheese wrote:Hongun won't blink as well as MC On July 25 2011 12:32 Ezze wrote:On July 25 2011 12:24 gustavohmp wrote:
HAD IT BEEN Nestea vs Byun and HongUn vs Losira, I would be 100% SURE the finals would be Nestea vs Losira
HongUn abusive style CAN and probably WILL take out Nestea. It wouldnt even flinch Losira but Nestea is shaky vs abusive Protoss, I say this because of his match against San is that GSL that I forgot what month happened. Its old, and its only one game, but its the only time I remember Nestea losing to Protoss, so thats that.
Losira has AWFUL ZvT and, well, I dont know how Byuns TvZ is, but if he is any good at late game management, Losira is bound to fall. To me, Losira greatest strenght is deflecting bullshit. Looking back to his games vs MMA in MLG, I fear Losira wont advance today.
I expect great and memorable games tonight. I believe all of them (well maybe not HungUn) deserve a spot in the finals and Ill be cheering for the best even though I think it is time to a ZvZ finals, with both players from the same team, no less. The San game you're referring to was one of the LEAST ABUSIVE protoss games I've ever seen. San basically was massing expansions and destroyed Nestea with unit control and positioning. So I have no clue what you're talking about son. NesTea went muta, but was not able to harass with them at all because every time he went into Sans base, a HT warped in and stormed. He WOULD have lost without amulet, it's not even questionable. That series made me rage even harder than IdrA vs Cruncher on old Shakuras Okay what's with all the San bashing lately (in the team league, now here too?). Yes San is not doing well now (slump?) but his games were decent (arguably though his Ro16, Ro8, and Ro4 games weren't too impressive in GSL march but that game vs Nestea was impressive).
Great post, it's worth pointing out though that Nestea improve exponentially between his slump to now. He was always good, always the best Zerg from season 2 onwards but he wasn't this far ahead of everyone else until now.
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Artosis curse!!!!
Artosis: "round of 4 produces epic games"......... - round of 4 is the worst in GSL history.
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i THINK HE might be referring to MC vs MarinekIng MarineKing vs MMA or Sc v Nestea?
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I bet a zerg from IM will be the champion...
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On July 26 2011 07:46 SmoKim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 07:43 mordk wrote:
As one sided as the finals might look, there's also the "story" side to it. It's a great story, Losira endures the pain of Code A, goes on to face a gauntlet of powerful opponents, only to see his master waiting in the end. Can the disciple defeat his master? i see a epic comic someone makes this, now!
We allll have our storiessss to tell~
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EPT
