[NASL] Day 6-2 - Page 33

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DarkPlasmaBall

United States45708 Posts

May 20 2011 02:34 GMT

#641

gg from SjoW, Cruncher wins thanks to that super-early third.

1-0 Cruncher

AntiGrav1ty

Germany2310 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#642

Looks like lag somehow.

Z3kk

4099 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#643

GG well-played! Yay! :D

Great strategy to walk into this game with. Awesome game~

ForeverSleep

Canada920 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#644

Haha TB in the end!!! that's why I like that guy :D

Gondlem

Australia642 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#645

Nicely played by Cruncher. Should have gotten storm before that first big engagement, but was solid otherwise.

Kamais_Ookin

Canada4218 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#646

Who's the caster with the heavy accent? I like his commentating.

bkrow

Australia8532 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#647

Cmon SjoW - RALLY!! Please don't let me go 0/2 on my liquibet !! 1/1 would be much better

Cruncher showing a beautiful eco cheese there - it was pretty brilliant haha

TT1

Canada10035 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#648

i say sjow wins this series anyways, having a tough macro game vs someone u triple expoed against should be demoralizing

Jman5

United States745 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#649

Total Biscuit and Gretorp understand us Terran! We all get this sinking feeling when good storms land.

s4life

Peru1519 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#650

Cruncher showing some good decision making there

TheNay

Canada29 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#651

I was expecting TB to drop a Hinderberg Guy 'Oh, the humanity!" towards the end there

EnderCraft

United States1746 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#652

On May 20 2011 11:34 Ruscour wrote:

Show nested quote +

TB said he wanted to cast IPL2 with dApollo. That would be a dream come true!

Apparently they might move in together to do team casts =D It's only if their selected however...

Xxavi

United States1248 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#653

Cruncher has showed great game here.

Johnzee

United States216 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#654

Cruncher looked like he was playing as Zerg that game

REDBLUEGREEN

Germany1904 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#655

Awesomely long fights going in there, reminded me of BW.

Captain Peabody

United States3128 Posts

May 20 2011 02:35 GMT

#656

Who's the caster with the heavy accent? I like his commentating.

Totalbiscuit. He's British.
youtube.com/TotalHalibut

Whitewing

United States7483 Posts

May 20 2011 02:36 GMT

#657

On May 20 2011 11:28 Dommk wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 20 2011 11:24 Whitewing wrote:

On May 20 2011 11:22 Dommk wrote:

On May 20 2011 11:18 Whitewing wrote:

On May 20 2011 11:13 Yaotzin wrote:

On May 20 2011 11:11 Whitewing wrote:

On May 20 2011 11:09 Zephirdd wrote:
Anyone else feels that Moman can't stand a macro game and only wins with all-ins? I mean, the game where he could make whatever he wanted, he lacked creep spread and tech, but the other games he just went for NesTea's ling/roach timing..

It kinda sucks, is every ZvP going to be like that?

Protoss is very weak at that timing, and zergs are learning now that the 3 gate expand with just sentries followed by fast tech (iNcontroL was building a robo) is greedy. It's necessary for the game to evolve that zergs punish protoss at that timing, so that protoss will start playing a little less greedy, which will give zergs a little bit of an easier time. One of the reasons the deathball is so strong is that toss gets away with playing greedy early on to get an edge: stop letting them do that, and it gets easier later.

Well I wouldn't say it's unreasonably greedy as it is defendable, it's just for some reason a lot of toss players are failing hard when it comes to defending it. Not that it's easy to do but still..

If it's very hard to defend (it is) then your play is greedier than it should be at that point: you're taking a risk for a potential benefit. Protoss players have been doing this for a very long time now, and teching immediately after expanding is greedy play. To play safe after that expo, you need to throw down more gateways and pump units for a short while before you get the robo, and tech slowly. iNcontroL was getting +1 weapons and a robo when that attack hit, and his army was less than half the size of MoMaN's. The definition of greedy is trying to get a big economic or tech edge without being able to defend effectively, and that's what we're seeing repeatedly with that roach/ling timing.

Rather than going immediately robo, it might be wise to get hallucinate, pump more units, and get a slower robo and get upgrades after the phoenix scout.

Seriously, I have yet to see a single Protoss hold off the all-in in a live casted game in any tournament, it is NOT easy to defend regardless of not getting fast robo or +1. You get Robo after because of any burrow timings but usually its fine to deal with it.

Watch White-ras 12weeks with the pros from yesterday, even he says it is difficult

That's exactly right: my argument is that the 3 gate expand with just a bunch of sentries is, in fact, a greedy build. You need more muscle to defend, and you can't do that with just a bunch of sentries, followed immediately by teching. If you want to go with that fast robo, you need to throw down a bunch of cannons, not just 1-3 of them. Either that, or have some form of confirmation that they aren't doing an all-in.

EDIT: It's just the timing for when the nexus completes off of that 3 gate style. Either get the nexus down sooner to be safe at that timing (2 gate expand?), or delay it a little.

3Gate expand is NOT a greedy build, it is the safest build you can do, you get your Nexus later as opposed to Nexus or Forge first but you have sentries and able to hold all-ins, it is so absurd that 3gate expand of all things with a 6-7min expo is considered greedy.
3gate expand is by far the safest style of play to this type of play, at least following White-ras advice. And from my own experience, I agree.

It was certainly safe against previous play styles of zerg players in the matchup, but as we're seeing time and time again, that all-in from zerg is extremely hard to hold off, and protoss players left and right are dying to it. That implies one of two things: first, that the build is greedy when viewed through the lens of today's playstyles, or that there is literally no better build in existence to hold off that all-in, which I don't for a minute believe. It's very strong against an extremely heavy sentry based defense, but I can think of safer builds, like a 2 gate robo. The nexus is more delayed, which is the issue.