I'd like to thank everyone that participate and made this cup awesome! Had a great time and I hope I'll see all of you for the next cup as well! And big grats to our winner Pikachu!
Hey i organise the cup, a really big thanks to Meeran at this moment i really forgott to post here. So at the Cups the Female are all in a VoiceProgramm, when they want in different channels but many females sit togather in a channel an talk. So they have a nice eve with small talk an playing And the Adminas are in the Voice too, so we can help very fast
I don't understand why there needs to be female tournaments? As far as I know there are no gender restrictions on normal tournaments, so if girls are good enough they can just compete in those right? I understand the commercial value of female gaming, but what would really be good for competitive gaming is when a female can compete with the best of the guys. Emancipation goes both ways right.
Why not, sometime its funny and many females dont want to play again males, they play mostly not so much or they are sheepish And sometimes they just want a female eve without sexist comments And its just a small cups i dont know why we shouldnt help the female to find each other, find new friends, training partners Why not i dont find reason why we shouldnt do this just because of the fun, its not e EPS or EMS just for girls thats a Cup
Isnt this a bit discriminating? What if I made a tournament where only individuals with black skin color are allowed to sign up? Whats the purpose of a tournament where you exclude certain individuals just because they have a penis between their legs?
Are transvestites or hermaphrodites allowed to sign up?
On October 30 2010 01:03 parkin wrote: Isnt this a bit discriminating? What if I made a tournament where only individuals with black skin color are allowed to sign up? Whats the purpose of a tournament where you exclude certain individuals just because they have a penis between their legs?
Are transvestites or hermaphrodites allowed to sign up?
No need to get pissed about that. How many girls do you know who play SC2? Would it be bad to offer a possibility to get into the game? More females playing definitely would help esports as well.
On October 30 2010 01:03 parkin wrote: Isnt this a bit discriminating? What if I made a tournament where only individuals with black skin color are allowed to sign up? Whats the purpose of a tournament where you exclude certain individuals just because they have a penis between their legs?
Are transvestites or hermaphrodites allowed to sign up?
You guys will bitch about anything I swear, they could make a open tournament where everyone instantly wins $1,000,000 and I guarantee people will still complain about it.
This is a good thing for e-sports in the long run imo, there's only a few select (actually just 1 i can think of) females that can roll with most high level male players.
On October 30 2010 00:33 Dudemeister wrote: way to strereotype with purple/pink and butterflies lol. anyway, def gonna keep an eye on this, good initiative!
Quoted for truth.
Tho I like the idea anyway, I think if we want more females in the game scene they have to be able to find each other as I think a lot of em just gtfo's because of all the sexism (like Yourmom's, I know it was probably a joke, but most of it is, it still makes it a quite unpleasent environment).
On October 30 2010 01:03 parkin wrote: Isnt this a bit discriminating? What if I made a tournament where only individuals with black skin color are allowed to sign up? Whats the purpose of a tournament where you exclude certain individuals just because they have a penis between their legs?
Are transvestites or hermaphrodites allowed to sign up?
Go bitch elsewhere please. You people are actually worse than the real racists & sexists. And no, "you people" is not a racial or sexual connotation.
To all the people that are complaining about a female only tournament, really? Get a life.
I know my wife would actually enjoy something like this where she hates doing any type of video gaming with voice at any other time. As soon as they hear her voice and realize that shes a woman the idiotic comments start. Comments that generally make me want to break some heads over the microphone if I could.
It sounds like this tournament is more of a girls night out type of event. Most of the time the ladies don't care a lot about who wins and it's more a social event (correct me if i'm wrong, its just from my experiences with my wife having xbox or wii parties). So please let the ladies have their event in peace.
On October 30 2010 01:03 parkin wrote: Isnt this a bit discriminating? What if I made a tournament where only individuals with black skin color are allowed to sign up? Whats the purpose of a tournament where you exclude certain individuals just because they have a penis between their legs?
Are transvestites or hermaphrodites allowed to sign up?
If it was something serious like a job offer it would be illegal, but they are free to make a female-only tournament. Get Orb's girlfriend to play maybe ? 2k diamond can't be too bad.
I dislike female only gaming. Get over it and join tournaments that are open to all competitors : P No need to have ONLY females or ONLY male tournies, as both are included in regular tournaments. I have no idea why people still insist on creating these types of competitions.
It's like the Frag dolls, they're not good, but the fact that they play Halo and can woop .5 KDR noobs makes them goddesses. It's just dumb.
Plus, an all girls tournament is just giving off the perception that men are better at everything. It's like making a "Special Olympics" Tournament. It's just downright degrading.
On October 30 2010 01:03 parkin wrote: Isnt this a bit discriminating? What if I made a tournament where only individuals with black skin color are allowed to sign up? Whats the purpose of a tournament where you exclude certain individuals just because they have a penis between their legs?
Are transvestites or hermaphrodites allowed to sign up?
You guys will bitch about anything I swear, they could make a open tournament where everyone instantly wins $1,000,000 and I guarantee people will still complain about it.
This is a good thing for e-sports in the long run imo, there's only a few select (actually just 1 i can think of) females that can roll with most high level male players.
Yeah, it boggles my mind that anyone would be upset about some people gathering other people they feel comfortable hanging out with for a night of gaming. Crying about discrimination and equating a small tournament to racism? lol, get over yourself. There are hundreds of tournaments out there where guys can feel pretty safe in the fact that no one is going to make fun of them for having a male-sounding voice. Girls deserve the same.
GL HF ladies! Small fun tournaments like this are what make the Starcraft community awesome.
The complaints are absurd. Along with national/regional tournaments, this is one more unique way to help drum up interest in the game. It doesn't hurt anyone. This is a good thing. Best of luck with the tournament.
On October 30 2010 01:28 TLOBrian wrote: I dislike female only gaming. Get over it and join tournaments that are open to all competitors : P No need to have ONLY females or ONLY male tournies, as both are included in regular tournaments. I have no idea why people still insist on creating these types of competitions.
It's like the Frag dolls, they're not good, but the fact that they play Halo and can woop .5 KDR noobs makes them goddesses. It's just dumb.
Plus, an all girls tournament is just giving off the perception that men are better at everything. It's like making a "Special Olympics" Tournament. It's just downright degrading.
I don't think that's a given. Does the Viking Cup cause everyone to think that Scandinavians are weak players?
It can just as easily blow away some preconceived notions when people see some quality play out of the tournament.
The importance of female tournaments is simply so that the winner can say "I'm the best female sc2 player right now." The same reason there are any sort of tournaments with some restrictions.
You guys who are all like "Why is there a female only tournament?! That's sexist!!" are actually the real sexists.
Calm down guys. I think it's just trying to encourage more girls to get involved in sc2 and competitive gaming. I think we would all like to be at the point where we don't need separate leagues.
Hopefully, this turns out well. I think it'd be pretty awesome for eSports if a foreigner female did well in some NA/Euro tournament then on to GSL. That'd be a huge inspiration for females all over to kick some ass (also helps legitimize eSports as an acceptable career down the road *nods*).
i don't get why people complain. It is up to the organizers to make their own rule. And arguably, female gamers are different from male gamers just as female chess is separate. Female gamers are also at a disadvantage socially because of all the stereotypes so they deserve their own league.
Anyway as pointed out earlier, if you complain about this, why don't u complain about Viking Cup because it discriminates against people out of the Nordic Area. Same as TSL because they did not allow Korean progamers?
On October 30 2010 01:56 LolnoobInsanity wrote: The importance of female tournaments is simply so that the winner can say "I'm the best female sc2 player right now." The same reason there are any sort of tournaments with some restrictions.
but is there any sort of in-built genetic thing that means that women simply can't compete at the highest level in sc2? or do we just have anecdotal evidence from other games (i.e. tossgirl's pro record)? if there is, as there is in something like basketball etc, that's cool. if there isn't, like in, say, poker, then it isn't.
although this sort of debate could potentially be interesting, i don't want to hijack the thread any further, gl hf to those who are playing
While I'm happy yall are doing this, I'm kinda sad the competitive gaming scene is such that you HAVE to make these female only tourneys in order to get a decent number of female participates. Gaming isn't a sport where body strength is tested, and that's the barrier that a lot of physical sports have which make it necessary to separate the sexes into different leagues. Since this barrier doesn't exist it would be nice to see more female entries into the big name tournaments, as well as more big name female players.
Either way, GL HF, like the guy above me I don't wish to hijack this topic.
On October 30 2010 01:56 LolnoobInsanity wrote: The importance of female tournaments is simply so that the winner can say "I'm the best female sc2 player right now." The same reason there are any sort of tournaments with some restrictions.
but is there any sort of in-built genetic thing that means that women simply can't compete at the highest level in sc2? or do we just have anecdotal evidence from other games (i.e. tossgirl's pro record)? if there is, as there is in something like basketball etc, that's cool. if there isn't, like in, say, poker, then it isn't.
although this sort of debate could potentially be interesting, i don't want to hijack the thread any further, gl hf to those who are playing
Maybe they don't want to put 10 hours a day in, but still want to have a tourney for fun with still having a chance to win?
OFC with the desire and time, any female could beat any male, they simply just don't have anyone willing to make that commitment yet.
On October 30 2010 03:02 Fa1nT wrote: OFC with the desire and time, any female could beat any male, they simply just don't have anyone willing to make that commitment yet.
How do you know this? How can you state it as a fact without having any proof or evidence?
ontopic: I know two girls who might be interested and they're luckily both on EU :D should be a fun tourney.
females havent been exposed to the genre for as long as males have. Whens the last time you bought red alert for your daughter?
It would be like someone teaching you how to knit in one sitting and then tossing you in a knitting competition with a bunch of grandmas. You would not be able to compete.
They want to play competitively with peers on a equal playing field, is that so hard to understand? Give them a few years at playing and when they beat your ass dont be suprised.
I want replays though, something tells me these gals will have some pretty awesome sneak attacks :D
GOD people just make me sick complaining about things that dont affect them at all. Should I come to your house and say that you should have something else for dinner? Or that you should have gotten the red car instead of the blue one?
On October 30 2010 01:03 parkin wrote: Isnt this a bit discriminating? What if I made a tournament where only individuals with black skin color are allowed to sign up? Whats the purpose of a tournament where you exclude certain individuals just because they have a penis between their legs?
Are transvestites or hermaphrodites allowed to sign up?
You guys will bitch about anything I swear, they could make a open tournament where everyone instantly wins $1,000,000 and I guarantee people will still complain about it.
This is a good thing for e-sports in the long run imo, there's only a few select (actually just 1 i can think of) females that can roll with most high level male players.
i would complain that iccup would be losing money and i would hate to see iccup go bankrupt
On October 30 2010 03:02 Fa1nT wrote: OFC with the desire and time, any female could beat any male, they simply just don't have anyone willing to make that commitment yet.
How do you know this? How can you state it as a fact without having any proof or evidence?
I present Evidence Exhibit #1 to the court's attention: Shiver
On October 30 2010 03:40 Zeroes wrote: I would complain that iccup would be losing money and i would hate to see iccup go bankrupt
Nah we got mad $, just ask Baller about our iCCup Limo.
On October 30 2010 03:02 Fa1nT wrote: OFC with the desire and time, any female could beat any male, they simply just don't have anyone willing to make that commitment yet.
How do you know this? How can you state it as a fact without having any proof or evidence?
I present Evidence Exhibit #1 to the court's attention: Shiver
On October 30 2010 03:40 Zeroes wrote: I would complain that iccup would be losing money and i would hate to see iccup go bankrupt
Nah we got mad $, just ask Baller about our iCCup Limo.
havent heard of shiver, can you give me some background? Was she 100% confirmed beyond doubt female, (and not just a dude with a girly voice and several pics of some other girl) and was she able to beat any male?
On October 30 2010 03:02 Fa1nT wrote: OFC with the desire and time, any female could beat any male, they simply just don't have anyone willing to make that commitment yet.
How do you know this? How can you state it as a fact without having any proof or evidence?
I present Evidence Exhibit #1 to the court's attention: Shiver
On October 30 2010 03:40 Zeroes wrote: I would complain that iccup would be losing money and i would hate to see iccup go bankrupt
Nah we got mad $, just ask Baller about our iCCup Limo.
havent heard of shiver, can you give me some background? Was she 100% confirmed beyond doubt female, (and not just a dude with a girly voice and several pics of some other girl) and was she able to beat any male?
She beat LuckyFool at a DC LAN in BroodWar.
she is confirmed to be a girl. trust me, i'm good at knowing if someone is a girl or not in real life.
On October 30 2010 03:02 Fa1nT wrote: OFC with the desire and time, any female could beat any male, they simply just don't have anyone willing to make that commitment yet.
How do you know this? How can you state it as a fact without having any proof or evidence?
I present Evidence Exhibit #1 to the court's attention: Shiver
On October 30 2010 03:40 Zeroes wrote: I would complain that iccup would be losing money and i would hate to see iccup go bankrupt
Nah we got mad $, just ask Baller about our iCCup Limo.
havent heard of shiver, can you give me some background? Was she 100% confirmed beyond doubt female, (and not just a dude with a girly voice and several pics of some other girl) and was she able to beat any male?
On October 30 2010 03:02 Fa1nT wrote: OFC with the desire and time, any female could beat any male, they simply just don't have anyone willing to make that commitment yet.
How do you know this? How can you state it as a fact without having any proof or evidence?
I present Evidence Exhibit #1 to the court's attention: Shiver
On October 30 2010 03:40 Zeroes wrote: I would complain that iccup would be losing money and i would hate to see iccup go bankrupt
Nah we got mad $, just ask Baller about our iCCup Limo.
havent heard of shiver, can you give me some background? Was she 100% confirmed beyond doubt female, (and not just a dude with a girly voice and several pics of some other girl) and was she able to beat any male?
She's defiantly a girl. She stopped playing competitively after beta phase 1 or so (don't remember exactly when). But when she did play she was very high ranked (I think she peaked at 2100). When she was active she was one of the better players in the NA server and I'm pretty sure top 200 easy at the time (no official lists back then). Even Day9 knows who she is and commented about her skill on the MLG DC stream when they showed her warming up.
On October 30 2010 03:02 Fa1nT wrote: OFC with the desire and time, any female could beat any male, they simply just don't have anyone willing to make that commitment yet.
How do you know this? How can you state it as a fact without having any proof or evidence?
I present Evidence Exhibit #1 to the court's attention: Shiver
On October 30 2010 03:40 Zeroes wrote: I would complain that iccup would be losing money and i would hate to see iccup go bankrupt
Nah we got mad $, just ask Baller about our iCCup Limo.
havent heard of shiver, can you give me some background? Was she 100% confirmed beyond doubt female, (and not just a dude with a girly voice and several pics of some other girl) and was she able to beat any male?
Have you met her?
no
Have 200 other people from TL met her? yes
she's a chick, nice troll attempt.
wasnt trying to troll, really hadnt heard of shiver and wanted to know if people had seen her irl.
On October 30 2010 03:02 Fa1nT wrote: OFC with the desire and time, any female could beat any male, they simply just don't have anyone willing to make that commitment yet.
How do you know this? How can you state it as a fact without having any proof or evidence?
I present Evidence Exhibit #1 to the court's attention: Shiver
On October 30 2010 03:40 Zeroes wrote: I would complain that iccup would be losing money and i would hate to see iccup go bankrupt
Nah we got mad $, just ask Baller about our iCCup Limo.
havent heard of shiver, can you give me some background? Was she 100% confirmed beyond doubt female, (and not just a dude with a girly voice and several pics of some other girl) and was she able to beat any male?
She's defiantly a girl. She stopped playing competitively after beta phase 1 or so (don't remember exactly when). But when she did play she was very high ranked (I think she peaked at 2100). When she was active she was one of the better players in the NA server and I'm pretty sure top 200 easy at the time (no official lists back then). Even Day9 knows who she is and commented about her skill on the MLG DC stream when they showed her warming up.
Thanks :D I didnt mean to come off saying "pfffff girls sux", was simply curious.
On October 30 2010 03:02 Fa1nT wrote: OFC with the desire and time, any female could beat any male, they simply just don't have anyone willing to make that commitment yet.
How do you know this? How can you state it as a fact without having any proof or evidence?
I present Evidence Exhibit #1 to the court's attention: Shiver
On October 30 2010 03:40 Zeroes wrote: I would complain that iccup would be losing money and i would hate to see iccup go bankrupt
Nah we got mad $, just ask Baller about our iCCup Limo.
havent heard of shiver, can you give me some background? Was she 100% confirmed beyond doubt female, (and not just a dude with a girly voice and several pics of some other girl) and was she able to beat any male?
She's defiantly a girl. She stopped playing competitively after beta phase 1 or so (don't remember exactly when). But when she did play she was very high ranked (I think she peaked at 2100). When she was active she was one of the better players in the NA server and I'm pretty sure top 200 easy at the time (no official lists back then). Even Day9 knows who she is and commented about her skill on the MLG DC stream when they showed her warming up.
Yeah true, plus, she was very often seen on orb's stream as they were high school mates. She used to stream a lot also... Sad we don't see her play anymore.
On October 30 2010 01:28 TLOBrian wrote: I dislike female only gaming. Get over it and join tournaments that are open to all competitors : P No need to have ONLY females or ONLY male tournies, as both are included in regular tournaments. I have no idea why people still insist on creating these types of competitions.
It's like the Frag dolls, they're not good, but the fact that they play Halo and can woop .5 KDR noobs makes them goddesses. It's just dumb.
Plus, an all girls tournament is just giving off the perception that men are better at everything. It's like making a "Special Olympics" Tournament. It's just downright degrading.
I agree with this.
Is SC2 some physically demanding game that men has an advantage? Are ladies incapable of playing RTS games of the same level?
People should be patient, if SC2 becomes big enough, has bigger exposure, outstanding female players will eventually appear. Now we have a small tournament, filled with stereotype symbolism.
God almighty, the moaning here is pathetic. Why should this tournament exist? Because someone is prepared to organise it, and other people are prepared to play in it. You don't like that? Tough shit, rightly no-one bothered to ask you. If a clan of low ranked friends has a clan tournament why does it matter that the winner probably isn't even the best player in his zip code. If someone wants to organise a tournament where only people whoes id's start ZpQn******** can play they can do that, its fine.
Gl hf girls, hopefully the scene can grow with stuff like this. But i don't support the idea of girl only gaming tournaments either. They don't have any disadvantages and can fully take part in the usual tournaments.
The idea behind female only tournament isn't that females can't compete with men (which is not true) or that females need special treatment (they don't). It's just a product of the fact that the community is 90% or whatever male and someone wants to fix that. People follow money. Much like we want big $ tournaments to spur higher level play, having female only tournaments will ideally pull females into Starcraft to help get that 90% to something closer to 50%. As other people mentioned it's like having a regional tournament or 'gold league' tournament. You do these things to draw more people into the scene, not specifically to account for inequalities (which only exist due to dedication/practice more so than physical inequalities).
for all of you whining about it being a girls only tournament... just freaking let it be... its not cause girls cant play against males... its not cause they suck or something , its just that normally girls do not like to be playing whit males on videogames (even more if your gonna use voice) cause of how horribly bad mannered some are (by some i mean 70% of the people... they have good manners most of the time but they hear a girl and oh god....) so please... just drop it this is a really good thing for sc2 since this will bring more females to it knowing that they can have fun whitouth 25 guys just triying to get them to watch their "junk" over msn.
Best of lucks whit the tournament and hope we can see more and more girls actually starting to play sc2 .
On October 30 2010 01:28 TLOBrian wrote: I dislike female only gaming. Get over it and join tournaments that are open to all competitors : P No need to have ONLY females or ONLY male tournies, as both are included in regular tournaments. I have no idea why people still insist on creating these types of competitions.
It's like the Frag dolls, they're not good, but the fact that they play Halo and can woop .5 KDR noobs makes them goddesses. It's just dumb.
Plus, an all girls tournament is just giving off the perception that men are better at everything. It's like making a "Special Olympics" Tournament. It's just downright degrading.
This might be the only chance for a female gamer to enter competitive gaming. You might be too intimidated to enter any other tournament (Cuz, well, obviously only male gamers sign up, so if I were female that'd be a bit non-atractive/scary/intimidating as well). So actually this is a very good thing. More female gamers is exactly what E-sport needs. A sport dedicated exclusively for one gender is doomed to fail in the long run.
On October 30 2010 05:50 LittleeD wrote: A sport dedicated exclusively for one gender is doomed to fail in the long run.
That's the point, it isn't dedicated to one gender until you start segregating people like this tournament. There is nothing stopping female gamers competiting in tournaments today, it's not even like you have to reveal anything to sign up for craft cup or whatever.
Theres nothing wrong with this relatively casual event (no prize money) but if it leads to real tournaments it's detrimental to the scene having tournaments not everyone can compete in and devaules competition.
On October 30 2010 05:50 LittleeD wrote: A sport dedicated exclusively for one gender is doomed to fail in the long run.
That's the point, it isn't dedicated to one gender until you start segregating people like this tournament. There is nothing stopping female gamers competiting in tournaments today, it's not even like you have to reveal anything to sign up for craft cup or whatever.
Theres nothing wrong with this relatively casual event (no prize money) but if it leads to real tournaments it's detrimental to the scene having tournaments not everyone can compete in and devaules competition.
Yes, I see your point. But you have to agree that the scene as it is now, its very hard for a female gamer to find motivation for competitive gaming given that there're so few female gamers to begin with. You always need a stating igniter to make things find its right balance, which could by example be a tournament like this one.
On October 30 2010 05:50 LittleeD wrote: A sport dedicated exclusively for one gender is doomed to fail in the long run.
That's the point, it isn't dedicated to one gender until you start segregating people like this tournament. There is nothing stopping female gamers competiting in tournaments today, it's not even like you have to reveal anything to sign up for craft cup or whatever.
Theres nothing wrong with this relatively casual event (no prize money) but if it leads to real tournaments it's detrimental to the scene having tournaments not everyone can compete in and devaules competition.
Even the Olympics have sports that men and women could compete against each other in and yet they don't (shooting sports and such). Should we have tournaments open to all genders? Yeah most likely it's the best choice. Is it the only way of doing it successfully? No.
Also these kind of tournaments give people the chance to get in contact with similar minded people, people they can identify with and perhaps get better with. I don't see how that can be a bad thing.
On October 30 2010 01:28 TLOBrian wrote: I dislike female only gaming. Get over it and join tournaments that are open to all competitors : P No need to have ONLY females or ONLY male tournies, as both are included in regular tournaments. I have no idea why people still insist on creating these types of competitions.
It's like the Frag dolls, they're not good, but the fact that they play Halo and can woop .5 KDR noobs makes them goddesses. It's just dumb.
Plus, an all girls tournament is just giving off the perception that men are better at everything. It's like making a "Special Olympics" Tournament. It's just downright degrading.
If you don't like the tournament idea, close your browser and stop posting in this thread. If you wonder why there should be a "girls only" tournament, the answer is the same as why there are TL in-house tournaments: for the hell of it. If it's organized, it's legit. Stop being retarded. I sense a lot of males being threatened by girl gamers, because anyone who is isn't attention starved wouldn't give a shit, and would actually let themselves enjoy the spectator aspect of it.
I hope every lady has a great time in this tournament and becomes better through experience and fun.
Alas, I cannot help but give my opinion on this. Would it not be better for a female to enter gaming as a gamer and not a female? It doesn't matter what nationality, sex, sexual preference, or religion you are, if you're a gamer, you're a gamer. Play with gamers, learn with gamers, have fun with gamers. But if you're going to limit yourself to only a certain "clique" so to speak of gamers, how can you ever expect to become better? But for those who just want to have fun, I see not a single issue with this. But if any of these ladies ever want to become professional, I suggest you hop in with the males and prove to us that it doesn't fucking matter what sex you are, you can still game and kick some ass!
Sorry if this is a completely retarded question...but is there any chance of watching this? Is it being streamed? I can't see any mention of this anywhere.
On October 30 2010 09:31 Uncultured wrote: No chance of watching it if you have plans for Halloween....
Silly day to organize it on.
Not every country celebrates halloween like America does.
People need to plan their events around america dont they realize theres more people in america then anywhere else?? also its the capital of earth so...
[QUOTE]On October 30 2010 09:39 TheAntZ wrote: [QUOTE]On October 30 2010 09:11 MisS_Suna wrote: Finally :D I am so excited~~!!
But im afraid people will cheatr.. will there be voice obligation throughout the whole game or what? why not cam ? .. XD [/QUOTE]
Probably because the girls will think theres 10k sweaty nerds fapping to their camview if its streamed they'd probably be right
[QUOTE]On October 30 2010 09:31 Onlinejaguar wrote: [QUOTE]On October 30 2010 09:31 Uncultured wrote:
Thats just silly either way a brief moment on cam would be feasable right? ;d .. i just played vs a fruiend and she totally owned me and she didnt play 1 game on her profile whillst i had already a few hundred games.. its just unfair when they let someone else play
Just watched the finals of the previous tournament and they both had 20 apm lol! The girl that appeared @Take's stream just made a lot of cannons and then got pushed around the 10min mark by a bio ball and then left.
On October 30 2010 09:51 Seek wrote: Just watched the finals of the previous tournament and they both had 20 apm lol! The girl that appeared @Take's stream just made a lot of cannons and then got pushed around the 10min mark by a bio ball and then left.
I dont understand this...If you're gonna compete in a tourney you could at least take an hour to check out some replays or read a thread or two on what to do...
Maybe they just want to have a girls-only tournament... for fun? That's the point of the game, right? To have fun?
Is it that inconceivable that the participants in a tournament would be chosen solely for that reason? Or does every tournament ever played need to be open to all qualified participants, all the time? Better not plan on playing in clan wars or friend-only tournaments if that's the case.
On October 30 2010 00:41 Vandro wrote: I don't understand why there needs to be female tournaments? As far as I know there are no gender restrictions on normal tournaments, so if girls are good enough they can just compete in those right? I understand the commercial value of female gaming, but what would really be good for competitive gaming is when a female can compete with the best of the guys. Emancipation goes both ways right.
I'd say the "need" is that it would be cool for female gamers to have a tournament where they could play it out, and that it would be cool to show that there aren't only male players like we see in most tournaments. It also shows this to potential sponsors and female gamers unsure about SC2.
On October 30 2010 01:28 TLOBrian wrote: I dislike female only gaming. Get over it and join tournaments that are open to all competitors : P No need to have ONLY females or ONLY male tournies, as both are included in regular tournaments. I have no idea why people still insist on creating these types of competitions.
It's like the Frag dolls, they're not good, but the fact that they play Halo and can woop .5 KDR noobs makes them goddesses. It's just dumb.
Plus, an all girls tournament is just giving off the perception that men are better at everything. It's like making a "Special Olympics" Tournament. It's just downright degrading.
I agree with this.
Is SC2 some physically demanding game that men has an advantage? Are ladies incapable of playing RTS games of the same level?
People should be patient, if SC2 becomes big enough, has bigger exposure, outstanding female players will eventually appear. Now we have a small tournament, filled with stereotype symbolism.
What a joke.
Top level female players in any video game are rare. That's just the demographics. It's not sexism, it's reality.
On October 30 2010 09:51 Seek wrote: Just watched the finals of the previous tournament and they both had 20 apm lol! The girl that appeared @Take's stream just made a lot of cannons and then got pushed around the 10min mark by a bio ball and then left.
On October 30 2010 09:39 TheAntZ wrote: Probably because the girls will think theres 10k sweaty nerds fapping to their camview if its streamed they'd probably be right
Hasn't been a problem for Nada so far. :D
Serious note: Nice to see attempt to grow interest in sc2 among females. Would love to see more top female players. imo no reason they cant compete with men, other than just general lack of interest (and consequent smaller talent pool). If all-female tourneys are what's needed to get the ball rolling, I'm all for it.
The only thing I can think of while reading this thread is when that one girl played at MLG DC and the camera was FIXED on her for like 10 minutes straight.
On October 30 2010 14:18 HollowLord wrote: The only thing I can think of while reading this thread is when that one girl played at MLG DC and the camera was FIXED on her for like 10 minutes straight.
ya and people were like 'lol women' when she lost even though she lost to good players
With all the hating going on in this thread, it wouldn't surprise me if female starcraft players leave and move to their own FORUMS as well as their own tournaments.
No class, TL-ers. No class whatsoever.
Calling gamers who start a female-only clan sexist is about as ridiculous as Glenn Beck calling Obama racist. It makes no sense.
Stay away from this topic if you disagree with the tournament, you're ruining a nice initiative.
Females are looking for a place where they can play together, just like there are tournaments for Dutch, Germans, Swedes and whatnot that others can't join. It's not necessarily about not being good enough to join international tournaments but moreso about building a community and events around a certain type of people, in this case females.
This is really cool. I'm interested to see what ends up happening. There has to be some skilled female players out there. The date is a little awkward, but that's the only issue I can think of.
On October 30 2010 15:37 Gudeldar wrote: If anyone ever wonders why women don't play SC or SC2, they should be directed to this thread.
I think you mean just SC2. I don't think this would have gotten such a response a year ago.
Is this tournament for people who are legally female, or for people who are biologically female? I'm male in both, but the former could always be changed if a cash prize ever appears >_>
On October 30 2010 01:03 parkin wrote: Isnt this a bit discriminating? What if I made a tournament where only individuals with black skin color are allowed to sign up? Whats the purpose of a tournament where you exclude certain individuals just because they have a penis between their legs?
Are transvestites or hermaphrodites allowed to sign up?
You guys will bitch about anything I swear, they could make a open tournament where everyone instantly wins $1,000,000 and I guarantee people will still complain about it.
This is a good thing for e-sports in the long run imo, there's only a few select (actually just 1 i can think of) females that can roll with most high level male players.
There always will be some people who complain regardless if that makes any sense or not.
I'd love to sign up for this. Unfortunately, I'll be playing on my (very buggy/laggy) laptop until I can get a desktop. It's very trustworthy for disconnecting and randomly shutting down Maybe next time if there's one in NA.
GJ on the girl-only tournament. Definitely seems great. I definitely know a couple of girls that can actually give a few guys quite a run for their money. (Too bad this is in EU)
To other people complaining: Stop complaining =.= Especially when people try to make arguments where it's unfair. Heck, you can make any kind of tournament you want. And the thing is, remember it's quite different in a lot of sports (e-sports or regular sports)
It's not always just skill level which is the main reason we have female-only games. Sometimes there's just tons of mannerisms. I mean, have you SEEN what happens sometimes in ladder games when a chick plays? If remotely it' a chick, sometimes the guys on the other team will just like ... hit on them. Most of the time it's disturbing to the girl because she just wants to play SC2 and not have people hit on them. In other cases, you might have those guys that just talk trash and they might not be comfortable with that either. See what I'm getting at?
(Side-Rant NOTE: Besides ... there's nothing that really counts as any-ism (sexism, racism). Just get it through your heads. Take computer science ... it's just a random optimization for real life since deciding a person might take too much time. Take logic. GG the world.)
I for one, would love to show my wife Females playing the game.
While initially interested, apparently Starcraft 2 has struck her as ridiculously complex, even though she played some SC1 campaign and even watched lots of proleague with me, knows the names of all BW units and a good few of the players! She is very capable with a computer and some games.
Having 100% female play to share with her would be cool- because as unattainable as BoxeR or NEXGenius play is for me, its almost pointless to someone who isn't into it at all.
I will cheer for you. Didn't played much sc2 lately so meh better not. And wow so many bans in this thread ^^; . And for a normal tourney for everyone, you either need to fake beeing a male or be mental ready for strange comments every second game.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the tourney, tournaments like this can attract females to play more sc2 and one day (maybe) we'll see more female participation in male-dominated tournaments overall.
Yes, its bad that the bnet Accounts just from EU are okay :/ Thats why the date is on Halloween, i know that the americans have no time to play this day but even if they would have the time the bnet accounts can't join the cup
We have some streaming offerings, if somebody is interested too he can contact me via PM.
The sense of the cup is a meet and greet between the girls We don't want to make a EMS or seperate them, they also play normal cups in the ESL that are open for everybody.
I will ask the American Section of ESL too if they want to do such a Cup there, this is not a problem. And for all critics: we will do a 2on2 Ladies Choice Cup with 1girl and 1 male in a team, could be fun! If you would see yourself how much fun a small cup can make you would not have the opinion that is is that bad Fun is the right word to describe these cups
I am a bad player myself in SC2 but that's not a reason to not play it, right? It just makes a lot of fun. MeeraN would kill me ingame in 4 minutes and? It is not important, I am still learning
Good players are not born, they practise and get better! I wish you all fun and I hope that you let us girls have our fun, too!
This sounds like A great idea and for those of you trashing on it shame on you! I'm glad diverse communities are being brought together to play sc2. This is great!
Since it's Halloween you guys should play in costumes too!
in costumes haha :D okey small choice in german stores dont know why we dont celebrate halloween like the USA or canada. I will ask the American section and we will see what we can do there
we have for other games many female only cups in cs1.6 and Css Ladders, yes we know that its a risk, but when you play in a normal Cup how do you know that the male normal ranked in silver dont give his account to another player who is perhaps really good ? You can not know it 100 percent, but you play or not ? So we have the voice its not all but better than nothing..
How will the admins safe guard that everything goes fair n square? ive had it before that i was cheated where one let his bffriend play... i mean ;x voice recognition only?
On October 30 2010 21:37 MisS_Suna wrote: How will the admins safe guard that everything goes fair n square? ive had it before that i was cheated where one let his bffriend play... i mean ;x voice recognition only?
Even a camera could be faked if someone is truely that pathetic Could just set the lady in front of a camera to click around, talk and pretend like she's playing, and then have their pro-level boyfriend play for them in the next room.
I would just go for it and have faith in fellow human beings that someone seriously isn't that pathetic especially when it's an event just for fun.
E: Oh, and I'd love to hear a female caster, if there are any(?), casting the games
On October 31 2010 01:18 Panoptic wrote: I've asked this already...but anyone know if we can view the games anywhere?
The Demos will be uploaded in the matches. And the casters have been informed that they should if they like to contact you here. I guess it is in their interest to win you as their viewers. I will be playing in this cup so I will leave it to the casters to tell you what they do :D
I just hered the streamers are hitpoint.cz... the only streamers who contacted naddl to cover this cup - if you want to stream this cup in English, contact Naddl. (hitpont cast in Chech language) ...
On October 30 2010 21:37 MisS_Suna wrote: How will the admins safe guard that everything goes fair n square? ive had it before that i was cheated where one let his bffriend play... i mean ;x voice recognition only?
Come on. Nobody sits around in any other Starcraft tournaments using a webcam and collecting driver's licenses to make sure that everyone is playing on their own accounts, either.
On October 30 2010 21:37 MisS_Suna wrote: How will the admins safe guard that everything goes fair n square? ive had it before that i was cheated where one let his bffriend play... i mean ;x voice recognition only?
Come on. Nobody sits around in any other Starcraft tournaments using a webcam and collecting driver's licenses to make sure that everyone is playing on their own accounts, either.
This cup does not have any prize money. The streaming is only in Chech up to now. And the admin Nadine will be on TS3 with us constatly to make sure we are real. Admins can ask the girls something about the game and is they don't know anything they could be only the girlfriends lending their voice for some idiot trying to cheat himself into a 22 player cup... seriously... such a person does not even have a girlfriend :D
On October 30 2010 15:47 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Stay away from this topic if you disagree with the tournament, you're ruining a nice initiative.
Females are looking for a place where they can play together, just like there are tournaments for Dutch, Germans, Swedes and whatnot that others can't join. It's not necessarily about not being good enough to join international tournaments but moreso about building a community and events around a certain type of people, in this case females.
Thanks for saying this. My wife is an officer in an all-female wow guild and has to answer these types of questions all of the time too :-(
Hope this tourney goes great, looking forward to future NA ones as well.
So if some females want a small cup with a NA Bnet Account write pls a E-mail to kevin.bonhag@nationalesl.com. He is the Leader of the ESL Section in America and if enough girls want a small cup he will do it
Good initiative to create a community you enjoy being with, I probably don't even grasp how hard it must be to really find a female community in a video game without such events...
We will do our best :D And i will make a News with replays, so if you want you can see there some games.. Now it is 00:00 in germany a new days starts and i am going in by bed, 24 Girls sign up until know and i am really happy
On October 30 2010 09:48 FreezerJumps wrote: This is shamefully sexist.
If there was any kind of prize, you couldn't legally exclude males. (See WSOP ladies' events)
lol whatever, think womens volleyball.
whats wrong with having a tourney for the girls?
While I totally think its ridiculous to argue against this kind of thing (I'm all for it), women's sports is not a very good analogy.. Female bodies are on average built very differently, making gender-exclusiveness a must in most physical sports.. But this doesn't lend any support to the justification of exclusiveness in esports or chess or whatever..
I'm not arguing against your overall opinion, i'm just pointing out that the analogy to physical sports is not very accurate
Maybe this has already been discussed in the thread (and if so, the info should be added to the OP), but your rule that "Gender females only" are permitted to play is a little ambiguous. A pre-op trans-gender might already identify her gender as female, while still technically male by sex. Not to mention hermaphrodites...
On October 31 2010 07:22 teacash wrote: While I totally think its ridiculous to argue against this kind of thing (I'm all for it), women's sports is not a very good analogy.. Female bodies are on average built very differently, making gender-exclusiveness a must in most physical sports.. But this doesn't lend any support to the justification of exclusiveness in esports or chess or whatever..
I'm not arguing against your overall opinion, i'm just pointing out that the analogy to physical sports is not very accurate
The brain is a physical, biological thing. To accept the reality of male-female physiological differences but deny the possibility of critical differences in the mental faculties of males and females is a contradiction. There is certainly an environmental factor going on here (do women feel the social stigma of being a serious gamer more than men? [imo this is a tragedy--what guy doesn't fantasize about the girl gamer?]) but it would not surprise me to find in a comparison of the two sex's minds an imbalanced distribution of natural strengths and weaknesses in spatial reasoning, competitiveness, et cetera.
On October 30 2010 15:47 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Stay away from this topic if you disagree with the tournament, you're ruining a nice initiative.
Females are looking for a place where they can play together, just like there are tournaments for Dutch, Germans, Swedes and whatnot that others can't join. It's not necessarily about not being good enough to join international tournaments but moreso about building a community and events around a certain type of people, in this case females.
Perhaps this needs to be quoted to prevent this thread from further devolving.
I think it's a great idear. I personally think it's a really good idear cause seriously.. Some people cant leave them alone and they get to have a relaxed tournament without anyone trying to creep on them. But yeah that's maybe alittle bold to say. But I think it's perfectly fine.
there should be a tournament for every minority group to encourage more of them to join by restricting the bracket so that it is less cut throat. You make tournaments for bronze level players to encourage them to play more. So the same applies for girls since we would all like to see a more balanced distribution of the genders.
Hi everyone, we will be broadcasting this attractive cup on our stream http://www.hitpoint.cz/stream. I would like to thank naddL and santo for quick and easy communicationthis. Hope our two czech girls will show some nice games
For all the guys that are crying about sexism, you are a guy, you have no grounds to say what offends and doesn't offend women. My view is that this will be a good way to get less recognized female SC2 players to get their shot at fame. Good Luck to ALL!
On October 31 2010 10:19 Railxp wrote: there should be a tournament for every minority group to encourage more of them to join by restricting the bracket so that it is less cut throat. You make tournaments for bronze level players to encourage them to play more. So the same applies for girls since we would all like to see a more balanced distribution of the genders.
I hope there is tournament for kids who arent experienced RTS gamers. Im 16 I feel I have an disadvantage vs older players who have more experience.
But older gamers have lower handspeed than you, so it all balances out in the end. The perfect gamer would be a 30yr old brain with the agility of a 15yr old :D
I hope there is tournament for kids who arent experienced RTS gamers. Im 16 I feel I have an disadvantage vs older players who have more experience.
Funny you say that. My bf (43 yrs old) always suggests there should be tournaments for "older" gamers because he says he just isn't able to compete on the skill level of a 16-year-old... ^^
On October 31 2010 09:44 beat farm wrote: women's brain's multitask better then male brains so they actually should have more potential then males at this game.
On October 31 2010 19:21 Cade)Flayer wrote: But older gamers have lower handspeed than you, so it all balances out in the end. The perfect gamer would be a 30yr old brain with the agility of a 15yr old :D
He is known as SlayerSBoxer
Edit: I live the idea, my fiancée won't touch SC2 with a stick, and hates when I tell her about the GSL but hey, if she sees some other girls playing, she just might get into it.
On October 30 2010 00:41 Vandro wrote: I don't understand why there needs to be female tournaments? As far as I know there are no gender restrictions on normal tournaments, so if girls are good enough they can just compete in those right? I understand the commercial value of female gaming, but what would really be good for competitive gaming is when a female can compete with the best of the guys. Emancipation goes both ways right.
User was warned for this post
I don't understand why he was warned. It doesn't make any sense to have a 'female only' tournament. This isn't a physical sport nor is it about easthetics.
User was warned for this post
Mod note: This is not the place to discuss your concerns about female tournaments. If it's that important open a new topic where you can write an in depth argument but don't ruin other peoples' topics.
On October 30 2010 00:41 Vandro wrote: I don't understand why there needs to be female tournaments? As far as I know there are no gender restrictions on normal tournaments, so if girls are good enough they can just compete in those right? I understand the commercial value of female gaming, but what would really be good for competitive gaming is when a female can compete with the best of the guys. Emancipation goes both ways right.
User was warned for this post
I don't understand why he was warned. It doesn't make any sense to have a 'female only' tournament. This isn't a physical sport nor is it about easthetics.
i agree, seems like a fair post, don't see why you would get warned for that... O_O
On October 30 2010 00:41 Vandro wrote: I don't understand why there needs to be female tournaments? As far as I know there are no gender restrictions on normal tournaments, so if girls are good enough they can just compete in those right? I understand the commercial value of female gaming, but what would really be good for competitive gaming is when a female can compete with the best of the guys. Emancipation goes both ways right.
User was warned for this post
I don't understand why he was warned. It doesn't make any sense to have a 'female only' tournament. This isn't a physical sport nor is it about easthetics.
It makes perfect sense. Read Nazgul's post. It's all about building community and having fun. Most people appretiate any effort that makes e-sport (or regular sport) more diverse and entertaining. Question is why are you against female only tournament but not against *insert school name* only tournament. Are national tournaments wrong as well?
You can easily see that what these tournaments do is bring together people who have something in common, which in turn promotes FUN.
Honestly, I just think most of the complainers here just have this superiority complex. Just get over yourselves and let others have fun.
While I totally think its ridiculous to argue against this kind of thing (I'm all for it), women's sports is not a very good analogy.. Female bodies are on average built very differently, making gender-exclusiveness a must in most physical sports.. But this doesn't lend any support to the justification of exclusiveness in esports or chess or whatever..
I'm not arguing against your overall opinion, i'm just pointing out that the analogy to physical sports is not very accurate
The brain is a physical, biological thing. To accept the reality of male-female physiological differences but deny the possibility of critical differences in the mental faculties of males and females is a contradiction. There is certainly an environmental factor going on here (do women feel the social stigma of being a serious gamer more than men? [imo this is a tragedy--what guy doesn't fantasize about the girl gamer?]) but it would not surprise me to find in a comparison of the two sex's minds an imbalanced distribution of natural strengths and weaknesses in spatial reasoning, competitiveness, et cetera.
Well, inherent brain differences between men and women exist to a small extent, but most of the proposed mental differences between men and women develop through experience. This is much less the case when it comes to the body, where experience plays a significant but much less important factor in determining the muscle build and size. Even if it were clear that they were inherent genetic brain differences, it'd still be much more complicated than things are with the physical body (where things tend to be much more quantitative than qualitative). You bring up an interesting and significant issue, but it doesn't legitimize the direct analogy to physical sport.
I have an honors degree in Behavioural Neuroscience And there is a good bit of fuzziness surrounding this issue. E.g. it's difficult to prove things, because to have a "controlled" experiment you'd need to raise men as women and women as men etc. etc. .. But what the whole of the research suggests is that mental brain differences are more often developed through experience rather than genetic, though genetic differences do exist to a much smaller (and more ambiguous) extent.
I totally agree that a cup solely dedicated to female gamers is a good tool to build even better of a community, but sadly I don't think that anyone is expecting this to take off. In a way this reminds me of the paralympics where the winner is usually the least disabled one and no one cares enough to spectate the event.
On November 01 2010 00:27 tealc wrote: I totally agree that a cup solely dedicated to female gamers is a good tool to build even better of a community, but sadly I don't think that anyone is expecting this to take off. In a way this reminds me of the paralympics where the winner is usually the least disabled one and no one cares enough to spectate the event.
funny... seems like there are 10 pages of people who are at least interested enough to comment. to each their own i suppose.
On November 01 2010 00:27 tealc wrote: I totally agree that a cup solely dedicated to female gamers is a good tool to build even better of a community, but sadly I don't think that anyone is expecting this to take off. In a way this reminds me of the paralympics where the winner is usually the least disabled one and no one cares enough to spectate the event.
Comparing paraolympics with women tournament is like saying they are mentaly challanged. Terrible 1st post imo.
On November 01 2010 00:27 tealc wrote: I totally agree that a cup solely dedicated to female gamers is a good tool to build even better of a community, but sadly I don't think that anyone is expecting this to take off. In a way this reminds me of the paralympics where the winner is usually the least disabled one and no one cares enough to spectate the event.
I've really been thinking whether I should even reply to this. I don't know if you're aware of this but your last sentence was really borderline offensive. In case you were just trolling, congratulations. If not, here's your cue to try and think about it.
In the last SC2 Female Cup (which was also the very first ever) there were only 8 girls participating. This time around there are over 30 players in the cup. That's quite an improvement, don't you think?
I haven't seem much gals in sc2, but when I used to play mmos they were like 1/3 or 1/5 (lineage 2, ragnarok, wow {on private server tho, dunno about retail }, etc ... )
Well I for one thing this is very cool. My little sister started playing RTS's this last year and any initiative to get girls enjoying this game is good by me.
And to all the whiners- yes all the other SC2 tournaments are open to all, just as the Korean proleague were open to foreigners- but there just weren't that many foreigners playing to make it into the SCBW just as there isn't that many girls playing RTS's to make it in. (Except TosSgirl.) So really, guys already have a ton of 'guys only' tournaments. All to do with numbers. (And given the immaturity demonstrated by many gamers to girls- it's no wonder they would hide their gender or want their own tournament.) And why not support something that is only beneficial to RTS's? 50% of the population is essentially guaranteed to not play the game. Even if you get a small percentage of that playing, it will increase the staying power of the game.
On October 30 2010 00:41 Vandro wrote: I don't understand why there needs to be female tournaments? As far as I know there are no gender restrictions on normal tournaments, so if girls are good enough they can just compete in those right? I understand the commercial value of female gaming, but what would really be good for competitive gaming is when a female can compete with the best of the guys. Emancipation goes both ways right.
User was warned for this post
Its for the female players to mingle, has nothing to do with femles not being able to compete its so they can chat it up with other women, and make friends with the limited female starcraft players that play this wonderful game.
On November 01 2010 02:35 pred470r wrote: I'm to lazy to go through the whole 10 pages of the thread, but I cannot stop my self to ask what's stopping some guy to sign up saying he's a girl?
Probably not a problem because all girls playing SC2 know each other. :D
On November 01 2010 02:35 pred470r wrote: I'm to lazy to go through the whole 10 pages of the thread, but I cannot stop my self to ask what's stopping some guy to sign up saying he's a girl?
Probably not a problem because all girls playing SC2 know each other. :D
5.1. Female voice obligation The presence in the ESL-Ventrilo 2.1 (IP: ts.esl.eu:3787, for password please ask the admins) before and during the match is obligated! An exception can be made if both teams agree in the match comments to play without a voice check. A refusal or a permanent mute will cause a match delete.
While I totally think its ridiculous to argue against this kind of thing (I'm all for it), women's sports is not a very good analogy.. Female bodies are on average built very differently, making gender-exclusiveness a must in most physical sports.. But this doesn't lend any support to the justification of exclusiveness in esports or chess or whatever..
I'm not arguing against your overall opinion, i'm just pointing out that the analogy to physical sports is not very accurate
The brain is a physical, biological thing. To accept the reality of male-female physiological differences but deny the possibility of critical differences in the mental faculties of males and females is a contradiction. There is certainly an environmental factor going on here (do women feel the social stigma of being a serious gamer more than men? [imo this is a tragedy--what guy doesn't fantasize about the girl gamer?]) but it would not surprise me to find in a comparison of the two sex's minds an imbalanced distribution of natural strengths and weaknesses in spatial reasoning, competitiveness, et cetera.
Well, inherent brain differences between men and women exist to a small extent, but most of the proposed mental differences between men and women develop through experience. This is much less the case when it comes to the body, where experience plays a significant but much less important factor in determining the muscle build and size. Even if it were clear that they were inherent genetic brain differences, it'd still be much more complicated than things are with the physical body (where things tend to be much more quantitative than qualitative). You bring up an interesting and significant issue, but it doesn't legitimize the direct analogy to physical sport.
I have an honors degree in Behavioural Neuroscience And there is a good bit of fuzziness surrounding this issue. E.g. it's difficult to prove things, because to have a "controlled" experiment you'd need to raise men as women and women as men etc. etc. .. But what the whole of the research suggests is that mental brain differences are more often developed through experience rather than genetic, though genetic differences do exist to a much smaller (and more ambiguous) extent.
Absolutely, and I defer to your expertise.. I'm pursuing a philosophy degree and I try to follow behavioral neuroscience from my armchair. :p The sports analogy is not apt, but I felt compelled to comment on the mind-body distinction.
I'm curious about the fuzziness, though. What sort of genetic differences exist? I imagine, evolutionarily, that in the physically stronger male specialized for hunting/stalking/trapping would also accumulate mental traits that gave him an advantage in the hunt: spatial reasoning, anticipation, prediction, real-time strategizing. In many ways (and especially in shooters) playing video games is very much like hunting--not the sanitized, modern, questionably moral recreational hunting, but the original, visceral, exercise-every-single-physical-and-mental-faculty-you-can-bring-to-bear-to-feed-yourself-and-survive hunting.
Now, this rambling stems from certain theories of evolutionary biology and anthropology of proto-man, and who knows how accurate that actually is yet. Maybe women hunted too, or had other reasons to develop all the same mental skills at comparable levels.
Or does the research basically say that at birth male and female brains are nearly identical, and only after development in an environment that the respective brains diverge..?
Stream doesn't work for me, just showing a still image, a circling circle in the middle and sometimes a pulsating yellow square around the circle, the meaning of which is unknown to me. Strange, last time I watched something on own3d it worked great :/
On October 30 2010 00:41 Vandro wrote: I don't understand why there needs to be female tournaments? As far as I know there are no gender restrictions on normal tournaments, so if girls are good enough they can just compete in those right? I understand the commercial value of female gaming, but what would really be good for competitive gaming is when a female can compete with the best of the guys. Emancipation goes both ways right.
User was warned for this post
I don't understand why he was warned. It doesn't make any sense to have a 'female only' tournament. This isn't a physical sport nor is it about easthetics.
It makes perfect sense. Read Nazgul's post. It's all about building community and having fun. Most people appretiate any effort that makes e-sport (or regular sport) more diverse and entertaining. Question is why are you against female only tournament but not against *insert school name* only tournament. Are national tournaments wrong as well?
Even if he might be wrong, i don't see why he's warned. I mean he didnt write sth descriminating. He just told his legitim opinion.
On November 01 2010 04:06 FrogOfWar wrote: Stream doesn't work for me, just showing a still image, a circling circle in the middle and sometimes a pulsating yellow square around the circle, the meaning of which is unknown to me. Strange, last time I watched something on own3d it worked great :/
On October 30 2010 00:41 Vandro wrote: I don't understand why there needs to be female tournaments? As far as I know there are no gender restrictions on normal tournaments, so if girls are good enough they can just compete in those right? I understand the commercial value of female gaming, but what would really be good for competitive gaming is when a female can compete with the best of the guys. Emancipation goes both ways right.
User was warned for this post
I don't understand why he was warned. It doesn't make any sense to have a 'female only' tournament. This isn't a physical sport nor is it about easthetics.
It makes perfect sense. Read Nazgul's post. It's all about building community and having fun. Most people appretiate any effort that makes e-sport (or regular sport) more diverse and entertaining. Question is why are you against female only tournament but not against *insert school name* only tournament. Are national tournaments wrong as well?
Even if he might be wrong, i don't see why he's warned. I mean he didnt write sth descriminating. He just told his legitim opinion.
A site moderator said "Don't post here if you disagree with this tournament".
On November 01 2010 04:37 Tigi wrote: Even if he might be wrong, i don't see why he's warned. I mean he didnt write sth descriminating. He just told his legitim opinion.
On TL we're not just about warning discrimination or things like that. You may have the best point in the world with all the facts to back it up but if you use it to shit on a topic where nobody asked for your opinion we may decide to warn you for it simply because you're ruining the atmosphere.
Next person who goes needlessly offtopic in this thread will get a warning. PM me instead of posting OT stuff here.
I thank you to organizers of this tournament it was very fun. and I was playing starcraft 2 as much as I can since beta this experience was new for me and I was so excited. But it was wonderful. I got 3rd place :D
I hope they continue to do this tournament every now and then.
* : we, female players were on teamspeak from the beginning of the tournament till the end, I can assure you we were all females.
Wow, that was great! Had lots of fun playing and also watching the other girls' games. Last not least, we had an exciting bo3 finale. Thank you naddL and the other ladies at ESL for setting up this tournament. Hope there's gonna be another one very soon.
On November 01 2010 06:18 Amaterasu! wrote: .* : we, female players were on teamspeak from the beginning of the tournament till the end, I can assure you we were all females.
So were mics required?
Edit: I feel like if that were the case, one could just have their girlfriend or friend get on the headset lol. Of course that would be a very douchey thing to do.
On October 31 2010 07:26 eckm wrote: Maybe this has already been discussed in the thread (and if so, the info should be added to the OP), but your rule that "Gender females only" are permitted to play is a little ambiguous. A pre-op trans-gender might already identify her gender as female, while still technically male by sex. Not to mention hermaphrodites...
Since this post the OP has changed to read "Females only"--does this mean only people who were born with the female sex organ? A bit discriminatory to gender females, no?
On October 31 2010 02:44 naddL wrote: So if some females want a small cup with a NA Bnet Account write pls a E-mail to kevin.bonhag@nationalesl.com. He is the Leader of the ESL Section in America and if enough girls want a small cup he will do it
If you have questions feel free to write me
I emailed Kevin and have been reaching out to some US female StarCraft players to see if they're interested as well. I hope we can have a tournament sometime - it sounds like it was really fun!
Gj Pikachu! Will any replays be posted, would be pretty interested to watch a couple. I think this was a great idea and it'd be cool to see more. I know a girl who likes games and now I'm wondering if I could get her into SC2...
P.S. Gj HuK you absolute beast, gl hf vs IdrA, show him Korea ain't all that. HuK FIGHTING
On November 01 2010 08:51 The KY wrote: Gj Pikachu! Will any replays be posted, would be pretty interested to watch a couple. I think this was a great idea and it'd be cool to see more. I know a girl who likes games and now I'm wondering if I could get her into SC2...
P.S. Gj HuK you absolute beast, gl hf vs IdrA, show him Korea ain't all that. HuK FIGHTING
On October 30 2010 02:58 Pfhor wrote: While I'm happy yall are doing this, I'm kinda sad the competitive gaming scene is such that you HAVE to make these female only tourneys in order to get a decent number of female participates. Gaming isn't a sport where body strength is tested, and that's the barrier that a lot of physical sports have which make it necessary to separate the sexes into different leagues. Since this barrier doesn't exist it would be nice to see more female entries into the big name tournaments, as well as more big name female players.
Either way, GL HF, like the guy above me I don't wish to hijack this topic.
the masses of idiotic posts in this thread should be evidence of why we need to have tournaments like this one
On October 30 2010 15:47 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Stay away from this topic if you disagree with the tournament, you're ruining a nice initiative.
Females are looking for a place where they can play together, just like there are tournaments for Dutch, Germans, Swedes and whatnot that others can't join. It's not necessarily about not being good enough to join international tournaments but moreso about building a community and events around a certain type of people, in this case females.
Was unsure about why all the bans, for even some politely put disagreements. That however, makes perfect sense and seems eminently reasonable. GL ladies
On October 30 2010 00:41 Vandro wrote: I don't understand why there needs to be female tournaments? As far as I know there are no gender restrictions on normal tournaments, so if girls are good enough they can just compete in those right? I understand the commercial value of female gaming, but what would really be good for competitive gaming is when a female can compete with the best of the guys. Emancipation goes both ways right.
User was warned for this post
I can't believe he got warned for that post, that is so wrong...
I guess it's for being wildly offtopic, and not for being wrong
I dunno.. I feel like if girls actually got more into gaming they'd rock everyone. I might be completely wrong, but I've got a feeling chicks could have faster hand movements, and handle themselves better under preassure. Good initiative imo. Probably mainly to get rid of all the loser dudes who tries to pick up women over skype etc. Gl and more tournaments like this. It's a good way for girls to get into the pro scene.
On October 30 2010 00:41 Vandro wrote: I don't understand why there needs to be female tournaments? As far as I know there are no gender restrictions on normal tournaments, so if girls are good enough they can just compete in those right? I understand the commercial value of female gaming, but what would really be good for competitive gaming is when a female can compete with the best of the guys. Emancipation goes both ways right.
User was warned for this post
agree with a couple of posters above. moderators on this forum is abusing powers and don't quite understand the difference between trolling and expressing an opinion.
i agree that female tournaments are somewhat pointless. the difference between men and women is mostly physical so why the need to separate them in esports?
it's the same as
international mathematics/physics olympiad for female only because female <<<< male.
u'd be surprised to realize that female === male in many of these competitions,
so to create an sc2 tournament because they can't compete with the boys? come on. if you're not competitive enough then it is what it is.
Edit:
it's fine to create a girl support group, but to create girls only tournament is discriminating.
I don't understand... What right does anyone here have to say to all the female gamers: "NO!". They can have their own tournament if they want. What the fuck are you going to do about it? It's just like any other invite-only tournament. You don't go ape-shit over that.
Firstly, congrats to all the ladies who participated. I always think its cool when more girls take part in my hobby and I'm sure you all do too.
I just thought I'd chime in with my thoughts on the issue. I really don't understand the focus on the inference that female only competitions exist only due to a weakness in women. Female only competitions are NOT discrimination to women or men because they do NOT say that women are weaker. I believe the aim of a female only tournament and a girls support group is to increase awareness of girls in gaming and to send the message to other people that hey, gaming isn't just for boys, girls can and do play too! This is very similar to women's professional groups in perceived boys club professions such as law and engineering. I'm sure if gaming were 50/50 girls and boys, this sort of competition would have less of a reason to exist. Also, to say that it is ok to have a girl support group but it isn't ok for the group to have their own tournament is ridiculous. If an organisation exists, it should be within their scope to have their own competition.
tldr; this competition isn't about saying that girls are weaker, its about saying that hey, girls play starcraft too! (pun intended)
Men complaining about being excluded don't understand the entire lifetime of discrimination women experience on a daily basis from any activity deemed difficult or pride worthy.
Oh no, a girls only tournament. The fact is video games are where a lot of the world's most desperate and socially inadequate people turn. And when those people meet people of the opposite sex, things don't go well. I'm happy for any tournament that is fun for the people in it. There are enough people playing this game that it won't affect anybody's gaming experience who isn't in the tournament. I would think even the most trollish of teenboys would be happy enough to have an opportunity to show a positive experience of online RTS gaming to the females of the world who are so questioning of the genre we all love.
Ok I asked a stupid question before but I think I have my answer...
I am super excited that ESL is doing this to promote female competitive gamers. I hope that this gets more women involved in the progaming scene and I would LOVE to see women competing in high level tournaments like GSL .
I'll be spreading the world about the ESL female gaming facebook fan page in the hopes that I can help drum up interest in a NA girls' tournament. Didn't know it existed - thanks!
On November 01 2010 08:07 Liquid`HuK wrote: congratulations pikachu! so a cool name too
gogo win that laptop, gz for the 1k so far!
I had to travell home so I didn't see it live. Thanks for spoiling it for me in a thread that has nothing to do with it at all...You ruined my day, hope you're happy ;(
On November 01 2010 12:11 Bibbit wrote: Are we sure that checking gender with the voice is adequate? I've got a pretty mean falsetto.
Also, congrats to Pikachu. :D
Any guy who would go the lengths to use falsetto/get a girl to do the voice check for him just to participate in an all-girl tournament would be beyond dbag-ish.
At least the winner, Pikachu, is a female. A well known Taiwanese celebrity singer/actress in fact.
Congrats with winning Pikachu! Also Dzejna Amaterasu and VampireLady for making it that far. Thanks for casting Smoky. Good music too between casts And ESL for organizing.
Hopefully word will get out about these female-only tournaments. I know that there's at least a couple of females on TL that's in diamond that didn't participate
On November 02 2010 10:21 jdreamer wrote: Youtube Link
If you can understand mandarin, above is a link to the interview with Pikachu after winning the competition!
GO PIKACHUUUU! GO LINDA!!!!!
Please join our facebook page if you are a woman who would like to participate in our next cup. For this cup you need an EU bnet.account. You also need an ESL account, which is for free.
"And the winner of the tournament is Shotgun02. Guess what, she's a girl!"
The significance of making this a female only tournament is?
The idea is to foster growth in the lady-gaming community, as a lot of games are a boys club at all levels, but particularly higher ones. So the women only tournament is to show that there are women at the higher levels of the game. That being said, I wonder if it really works as intended.
I believe it would be more effective if a girl just played in the regular tournaments and dealt with the "omg it's a girl" stuff and just competed and didn't make a big deal out of it. Holding girls only events just seems like an attention-seeking stunt rather than an honest attempt at fostering a girls-only community. Why would you do that anyway? There is a community let's not start splitting it by not letting others participate in your events as well. There are girls who are playing in the normal events and I don't think they'd have very kind words for this sort of thing either.
On November 04 2010 03:05 epik151 wrote: I believe it would be more effective if a girl just played in the regular tournaments and dealt with the "omg it's a girl" stuff and just competed and didn't make a big deal out of it. Holding girls only events just seems like an attention-seeking stunt rather than an honest attempt at fostering a girls-only community. Why would you do that anyway? There is a community let's not start splitting it by not letting others participate in your events as well. There are girls who are playing in the normal events and I don't think they'd have very kind words for this sort of thing either.
Yeah. And schools shouldn't have girls sports either, and they should do away with the WNBA. Girls can play esports when they're good enough to compete with the guys, and until then they can just stay the F away.
Don't be dumb man. Girls only sports are designed to encourage girls to play. Over time this helps girls be more likely to join in, and eventually when more are playing, the gap between them and guys gets smaller. Think before you post.
On November 04 2010 03:05 epik151 wrote: I believe it would be more effective if a girl just played in the regular tournaments and dealt with the "omg it's a girl" stuff and just competed and didn't make a big deal out of it. Holding girls only events just seems like an attention-seeking stunt rather than an honest attempt at fostering a girls-only community. Why would you do that anyway? There is a community let's not start splitting it by not letting others participate in your events as well. There are girls who are playing in the normal events and I don't think they'd have very kind words for this sort of thing either.
"Attention-seeking stunt" ... lol. Are you serious?
In my opinion, female events like this tournament have the chance to solve the major problem the community has: That male gamers realize that there are girls playing, that it's perfectly normal, and that they're just there for the game just like the guys.
With very few exceptions, most female gamers I have known all either stopped (multiplayer-)gaming or try to not have their gender generally known. Guess why? Because it's literally impossible to "deal with the it's-a-girl-stuff".
A girl or woman at a LAN party (at least those I've attended) still is a minor attraction and her spot will be camped, her games will be crowded and people will do anything to get her attraction, to flirt with her, to give her easy wins (again in order to get attention). A girl or woman in an online game on TS (be it Counterstrike or WoW) will either make the channel or the ingame chat go mad and will inevitably lead to some form of attention-seeking from the male gamers during/after the game. While playing WoW, I've encountered several cases where girls/women were either stalked ingame or even IRL by male gamers who couldn't accept the fact that females only play for fun too and not in order to chat/socialize/flirt.
My girlfriend (who also plays WoW) had to leave chat-/TS-channels a couple of times and had to abandon/ignore ingame friends because they totally got the wrong idea from a gamer girl just being friendly.
It certainly has become better over the last few years, but there's still a looong way to go - and I think that tournaments like this may help.
Thank you for the post naddl. It is really cool that 31 girls came this time. The next cup is already at November 14th (in two weeks) as your news says and I am sure there will be more than 31 girls then.
By the way, we girls also participate in the other SC2 cups. This cup is only an addition for me. It is fun to be in ts with all the other girls. They are from all over the world and they can tell stories about their experiences in gaming. We are not outcasts. I am really happy that other girls also have fun playing this game and it is fun to play with other girls from time to time. I was so used to playing with boys or against boys that I really enjoyed it a lot to get to know these girls and compete with them. Thanks to every girl that added me on bnet, I don't think we will play until 4am every night but last night was just too much fun so it would have been wrong to sleep at 11pm :D <3
Except for the part where you notice the bad behaviour of half of the gaming community. Saying that some females who are intersex or transgender =/= female is the most stupid thing I ever heard, when some intersex conditions prove that gender is in the mind. Me, myself I'm an intersex indivual (stupidly known as hermaphrodite), I have PAIS (I'm not going to explain anything, you can google it). I'm treated like garbage because of that, people don't understand that having an intersex condition or being transgender is part of the human nature. I feel so bad when people made a mockery of me, this is the reason I prefer not getting into communities.
But, I just hope this kind of stuff can help the SC2 community to grow more (even if I'm not part of it), it would be a nice feeling to know that there's more SC2 players out there.
On November 04 2010 03:05 epik151 wrote: I believe it would be more effective if a girl just played in the regular tournaments and dealt with the "omg it's a girl" stuff and just competed and didn't make a big deal out of it. Holding girls only events just seems like an attention-seeking stunt rather than an honest attempt at fostering a girls-only community. Why would you do that anyway? There is a community let's not start splitting it by not letting others participate in your events as well. There are girls who are playing in the normal events and I don't think they'd have very kind words for this sort of thing either.
Please learn to read.
On October 30 2010 15:47 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Stay away from this topic if you disagree with the tournament, you're ruining a nice initiative.
Females are looking for a place where they can play together, just like there are tournaments for Dutch, Germans, Swedes and whatnot that others can't join. It's not necessarily about not being good enough to join international tournaments but moreso about building a community and events around a certain type of people, in this case females.
@ Red Morning
On November 04 2010 20:00 Red Morning wrote: I like this a lot...
Except for the part where you notice the bad behaviour of half of the gaming community. Saying that some females who are intersex or transgender =/= female is the most stupid thing I ever heard, when some intersex conditions prove that gender is in the mind. Me, myself I'm an intersex indivual (stupidly known as hermaphrodite), I have PAIS (I'm not going to explain anything, you can google it). I'm treated like garbage because of that, people don't understand that having an intersex condition or being transgender is part of the human nature. I feel so bad when people made a mockery of me, this is the reason I prefer not getting into communities.
But, I just hope this kind of stuff can help the SC2 community to grow more (even if I'm not part of it), it would be a nice feeling to know that there's more SC2 players out there.
I feel badly for you. I know of PAIS.
That said, I think if you PM'd the ESL administrators, they would likely allow a transgender person to enter. If they didn't, it would be completely against the point of the tournament. If you choose (or are forced) to live out your life as a female, you should be able to be part of the female community.
I think they were just being cutesy with their wording and I'd be pretty furious if they didn't allow you to join.
On November 05 2010 01:18 dcemuser wrote: I feel badly for you. I know of PAIS.
That said, I think if you PM'd the ESL administrators, they would likely allow a transgender person to enter. If they didn't, it would be completely against the point of the tournament. If you choose (or are forced) to live out your life as a female, you should be able to be part of the female community.
I think they were just being cutesy with their wording and I'd be pretty furious if they didn't allow you to join.
My first post was just a response for all those who refer to people with an intersex condition or that is transgender, in such a derogative way. Probably it doesn't mean anything, but my opinion is out there.
I do not know what are the exact rules right now for the tournament, except for that voice rule, which isn't a problem, except for the fact that I'm in the US server and that I don't have a mic. I don't know if they have anti-regulations against people who are intersex or that are transgender... I think I prefer not to know about it.
A topic like this would be more popular than truckload of food for starving ppl..
Nerds see females game.. OMGOOOSE :D
But really, I don't see either. Why females should have attention for their own tournament. It's discrimination actually. Just like gays, who constantly seek attention on to how NORMAL theyall are... yea well, if you're so friggin normal, why'd you need this attention to yourself?
Likewise, females should play with the best of the best in normal tourneys.
I'm not saying i dont like this idea, it just seems its mainly another attempt for males to oggle females doing stuff, pretending not to have a huge hard-on in the meantime...
I signed up simply because I was fed up with all the 'User was warned for this post" "User was temporarily banned for this post" on posts that asked questions I was genuinely curious about. "Why do girls not compete in major tournaments with male players?" It's a simple question. Instead of moderators warning users and other users just saying things like "What's wrong with an all girls tournament", can't anyone just answer their questions? You guys are all interpreting wrong... There's nothing wrong with all girl tournaments. I personally think all girl tournaments are great, but that doesn't mean we can't be curious why girls don't ALSO participate in mainstream tournaments. Can anyone shed some light?
There's no one reason. A few women do sometimes enter (although so far, there's only been a handful at most in sc2, I think). And some of the reasons that explain it for men also probably explain it for women: some women (like some men) probably just aren't that interested in competition, and some women (like some men) probably think they're not good enough. But of course, women in gaming communities have very different experiences than men, and it's possible that some of those experiences also make some women less interested in entering tournaments.
There are lots of more general issues, but this thread almost certainly isn't the place for them. The best way to get started would probably be to just take a women's studies course are for (or find some books that are assigned in women's studies courses and read them, if you're not currently a student or don't want to go take a course or whatever.)
On November 07 2010 00:00 Szei wrote: I signed up simply because I was fed up with all the 'User was warned for this post" "User was temporarily banned for this post" on posts that asked questions I was genuinely curious about. "Why do girls not compete in major tournaments with male players?" It's a simple question. Instead of moderators warning users and other users just saying things like "What's wrong with an all girls tournament", can't anyone just answer their questions? You guys are all interpreting wrong... There's nothing wrong with all girl tournaments. I personally think all girl tournaments are great, but that doesn't mean we can't be curious why girls don't ALSO participate in mainstream tournaments. Can anyone shed some light?
Presumably there isn't any female player good enough to compete in the top tournaments, in great part due to the social stigma attached to just being a female gamer, much less a hardcore competitive one.
If and when there is a female good enough to compete at the highest level they'll naturally be in the regular tournaments.
It's true for many competitive activities that the minority groups will not compete in mainstream events. I don't understand why people are just concluding that these tournaments are discriminatory or can only imply that all girls suck at gaming. They heighten visibility for women playing SC2 and make them feel like less of a minority (and it can be intimidating when one is a minority in an involved and active community).
It sets a relatable role model for the women who are not competitive yet but want to be. Unlike many isolated nerds who don't seem to understand why girls appreciate other girls playing video games, many groups of people enjoy similar-minded companionship and solidarity. With a larger pool of female gamers to draw from will come a larger group of competitive and pro female gamers. And what better way to make SC2 accessible to female gamers than hosting female tournaments? I find it refreshing and kind of exciting to watch female tournaments.
Sorry to go offtopic here, but when reading through the topic I see several people being banned for on-topic opinions, sometimes not even opinions but merely questions.. It makes me wonder why they are actually being banned, as I see no rule telling you not to disagree with the OP.
Not saying I agree with the banned people, just wondering what the reasoning was.
On November 10 2010 04:56 Marksel wrote: Sorry to go offtopic here, but when reading through the topic I see several people being banned for on-topic opinions, sometimes not even opinions but merely questions.. It makes me wonder why they are actually being banned, as I see no rule telling you not to disagree with the OP.
Not saying I agree with the banned people, just wondering what the reasoning was.
So which bans do you think were unwarrated?
And about the rule: What is the topic here? There is a tournament for female gamers being held. What is not the topic here? We are not discussing "If it is right to hold female only tournaments"? If you post about the 2nd, when we have said time and time again that this is not the place to discuss it, you get banned.
On November 10 2010 04:56 Marksel wrote: Sorry to go offtopic here, but when reading through the topic I see several people being banned for on-topic opinions, sometimes not even opinions but merely questions.. It makes me wonder why they are actually being banned, as I see no rule telling you not to disagree with the OP.
Not saying I agree with the banned people, just wondering what the reasoning was.
So which bans do you think were unwarrated?
And about the rule: What is the topic here? There is a tournament for female gamers being held. What is not the topic here? We are not discussing "If it is right to hold female only tournaments"? If you post about the 2nd, when we have said time and time again that this is not the place to discuss it, you get banned.
And which sub forum would be the place to discuss that? If people aren't allowed to express their opinions on the very matter being announced, what are people supposed to say in this thread? How come you didn't ban people who said "It's great to have a female only tournament"?? Those people are also discussing the merits of holding a female only tournament instead of the tournament itself, are they not?
On November 10 2010 04:56 Marksel wrote: Sorry to go offtopic here, but when reading through the topic I see several people being banned for on-topic opinions, sometimes not even opinions but merely questions.. It makes me wonder why they are actually being banned, as I see no rule telling you not to disagree with the OP.
Not saying I agree with the banned people, just wondering what the reasoning was.
So which bans do you think were unwarrated?
And about the rule: What is the topic here? There is a tournament for female gamers being held. What is not the topic here? We are not discussing "If it is right to hold female only tournaments"? If you post about the 2nd, when we have said time and time again that this is not the place to discuss it, you get banned.
And which sub forum would be the place to discuss that? If people aren't allowed to express their opinions on the very matter being announced, what are people supposed to say in this thread? How come you didn't ban people who said "It's great to have a female only tournament"?? Those people are also discussing the merits of holding a female only tournament instead of the tournament itself, are they not?
Just my opinion, but it's probably because the group you're referring to isn't sparking an argument and being negative about the reasoning behind the tournament in a thread that was originally to advertise the tournament and get sign ups, being pedantic about technicalities isn't going to get you anywhere. Especially when most of the people you're defending simply say stupid statements like "how do you know they're really girls?" as a joke or "are transvestites and hermaphrodites allowed to sign up", incredibly ignorant. There are tournaments restricting by league, it's just a restriction to make the tournament more fair and entertaining for participants. The discussion for it belongs in SC2 general threads where topics on the subject have been made multiple times.
With that said, I can't wait for the next one. I want to see pikachu play other match ups and longer games if she participates again.
On November 10 2010 04:56 Marksel wrote: Sorry to go offtopic here, but when reading through the topic I see several people being banned for on-topic opinions, sometimes not even opinions but merely questions.. It makes me wonder why they are actually being banned, as I see no rule telling you not to disagree with the OP.
Not saying I agree with the banned people, just wondering what the reasoning was.
So which bans do you think were unwarrated?
And about the rule: What is the topic here? There is a tournament for female gamers being held. What is not the topic here? We are not discussing "If it is right to hold female only tournaments"? If you post about the 2nd, when we have said time and time again that this is not the place to discuss it, you get banned.
And which sub forum would be the place to discuss that? If people aren't allowed to express their opinions on the very matter being announced, what are people supposed to say in this thread? How come you didn't ban people who said "It's great to have a female only tournament"?? Those people are also discussing the merits of holding a female only tournament instead of the tournament itself, are they not?
Just my opinion, but it's probably because the group you're referring to isn't sparking an argument and being negative about the reasoning behind the tournament in a thread that was originally to advertise the tournament and get sign ups, being pedantic about technicalities isn't going to get you anywhere. Especially when most of the people you're defending simply say stupid statements like "how do you know they're really girls?" as a joke or "are transvestites and hermaphrodites allowed to sign up", incredibly ignorant. There are tournaments restricting by league, it's just a restriction to make the tournament more fair and entertaining for participants. The discussion for it belongs in SC2 general threads where topics on the subject have been made multiple times.
With that said, I can't wait for the next one. I want to see pikachu play other match ups and longer games if she participates again.
That is simply untrue. MOST of the people I was talking about simply expressed their opinion about the social implications of holding such a tournament and questioned its necessity and its effect. They're not the same people who said the frivolous statements you listed.
You said this female only restriction makes the tournament "more fair and entertaining for participants". How exactly does having only females makes a tournament more fair and entertaining?
On November 10 2010 19:33 divertiti wrote: That is simply untrue. MOST of the people I was talking about simply expressed their opinion about the social implications of holding such a tournament and questioned its necessity and its effect. They're not the same people who said the frivolous statements you listed.
You said this female only restriction makes the tournament "more fair and entertaining for participants". How exactly does having only females makes a tournament more fair and entertaining?
Create a TL Blog then and rant about it all you want there (I'm serious, people rant in the TL Blogs all the time). This a tournament thread. You're now questioning social implications in a tournament thread (a tournament which is long since over, btw, there is an ESL Goes Female #3 now...) which is against the rules.
Complaining about tournaments in tournament threads is strictly forbidden, as Nazgul states here:
On October 30 2010 15:47 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Stay away from this topic if you disagree with the tournament, you're ruining a nice initiative.
Females are looking for a place where they can play together, just like there are tournaments for Dutch, Germans, Swedes and whatnot that others can't join. It's not necessarily about not being good enough to join international tournaments but moreso about building a community and events around a certain type of people, in this case females.
It is just fun for us to play with other girls. I have been competing in cups and tournaments in eSports since 2003 (before that only at LAN parties). Most cups were open to men and women. Only because some women compete in this female cup now, doesn't mean that they will not play in the cups for men/women. I just play as many cups as possible and I ladder as many 1v1's as possible. On a normal weekday 3-6 hrs.
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/a2Ego.jpg)
you just never know.
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