I wanted to point out something I found while using this build a lot. Overall, I've had a huge amount of success with this, but I found a special strength to the build. Horizontal spawn Zerus. If you spawn horizontally in PvZ, just do this build no questions asked. The aerial distance is so short, and your fourth base is like -right- next to Z's fourth base by air so you basically defend and attack within 5 seconds. Horizontal spawn Zerus takes away the mobility issue of this build.

fezvez

France3021 Posts

May 21 2013 23:52 GMT

#82

So, as a side note, after a few games

I don't like the warpgateless part of this build. I still research it, and get a second cyber core.

Carriers are indeed extremely potent. They trade efficiently against hydras with equal upgrades, and corruptors with little upgrades.

With no ground army, you still risk being overrun. A big ling/roach/hydra army can simply thrash your third, and the wall of your natural. I mean, the hydra-carrier fight will turn to your advantage. But in the meantime, you lose all your ground units and buildings.

The element of surprise if still crucial. Don't defend ling runbys at your third with your carriers for example (if you have a small ground army, that is), only show them when you have to / when you push out.

Overall, it's still a thread full of good ideas. Carriers with upgrades are good, people tend to forget it. Thanks for reminding me this!

Jaded.

United States125 Posts

June 18 2013 18:41 GMT

#83

Just wanted to add that I use this build in every one of my PvZ matches (Mid-masters EU,US) with great success. Since it isn't used in pro games zergs don't really seem to know how to adapt fast enough to stop the push. Should be worth noting that I usually add warpgate after +3 and get DTs, voidrays are good at sniping overseers so they're good with your army or for harass.

woreyour

582 Posts

June 21 2013 07:00 GMT

#84

thanks! imma try it out! :D I just love BW carriers, skytoss and Zerg Rage bwhahahhaa!

FakePseudo

Belgium716 Posts

June 21 2013 08:06 GMT

#85

When you get to mid-late game, there's absolutely no reason not to get Warpgate. As said before, templars are a crucial part of this composition when you gate to the later stage of the game. But more importantly, such a build will give you an insane excess of minerals, and flooding your opponent in zealots (whether it be as a buffer in your main army or as an annoyance with warp prism drop) is the best way to take advantage of it.

I didn't read the full thread, so maybe your build is supposed to kill him (or you sometimes) before you even get there, and I will sound a bit stupid tho.

Jaded.

United States125 Posts

June 25 2013 04:14 GMT

#86

On June 21 2013 17:06 FakePseudo wrote:
When you get to mid-late game, there's absolutely no reason not to get Warpgate. As said before, templars are a crucial part of this composition when you gate to the later stage of the game. But more importantly, such a build will give you an insane excess of minerals, and flooding your opponent in zealots (whether it be as a buffer in your main army or as an annoyance with warp prism drop) is the best way to take advantage of it.

I didn't read the full thread, so maybe your build is supposed to kill him (or you sometimes) before you even get there, and I will sound a bit stupid tho.

The build is designed to hit at 15ish mins with 6 carriers 4 void rays and void ray rally at 3/2/1 upgrades. To do this you do not have the time to get the warpgate research. After the +3 is done I do research it and throw down a twilight council + Shrine for DT harass, Having any real ground army is pointless since the upgrades are so lacking. Also since carriers often rely on deadspace/ cliff control having any amount of templars reduces mobility and can hinder the build. That 150 gas could be spent better getting another voidray or another carrier.

Batiste

United Kingdom69 Posts

June 26 2013 04:16 GMT

#87

Hendralisk just shut this down bad in IEM Cup vs TubbyTheFat

TheBloodyDwarf

Finland7524 Posts

June 26 2013 07:25 GMT

#88

I used always this kind of tactic in wol. And I had 80% winrate with it. FFE into 2stargate (+1 attack) -> 4 void rays. Void rays always killed zergs third... But this tactic havent worked for me in hots. Easy access to spores, hydras come early...

Railgan

Switzerland1510 Posts

June 26 2013 07:43 GMT

#89

I didn't really face this build alot. However the few times I did, I managed to beat it with early Hydralisks into mass Queen Infestor Corruptor with some lings / roaches to do runbys later one and defend vs Zealot warp-ins. That is of course after the big push.

ktgster

Canada70 Posts

June 26 2013 09:46 GMT

#90

This build lets me win pretty handily against standard zerg player aginst FFE (6 minute gases). The only times I have trouble are on maps where the third is very exposed and that have 2 ramps, zergs that are really on top of their scouting will punish you with speedlings even after you cleared overlords and towers. I do like adding in a few gateway units like a zealot/sentry to fill my hole in the wall though. I don't even nessecairily do the attack, I just keep massing my ball and the zerg can never kill it.

The key imo is to keep the zerg in the dark as long as possible upon seeing the voidrays come out. The later he sees your third the more time you get to get cannons and more air units. This is why I use the MSC to clear lings around my bases and the voids to clear any overlords. Zerg players get scared when they see void rays, they get defensive. You need to take advantage of this to set up your third before they can possibly punish you.