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Active: 1326 users

[G] Protoss expo and mining guide.

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
DeltaG
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States84 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 11:31:46
March 19 2011 08:49 GMT
#1
Chem final in 6 hours...but here is something I was working today instead of studying...I'm planning on adding a lot more information tomorrow and also adding visual aids to make it easier to read... enjoy...wish me luck to...

Over view:
+ Show Spoiler +

As a Protoss I was not sure when to expand and how to spend my chronoboost. This guide is the result of my research. According to my calculations the best time to get your first expansion is 3:00 and second expansion at 7:00. These timings are good only to gauge when the best time to expos are, if you actually do take expos this early you are very open ta a early rush...

Premises:Mining
+ Show Spoiler +

Maximum saturation is 3X8=24 miners + 6 on gas = 30 probes per base. The 3rd probe cannot mine optimally-this because miners in Star craft 2 take turns sitting at minerals [the exception to this is mules]. So now the real optimum mining saturation is 16 on minerals and 6 on gas… The So this would mean the best time to expand would be at 22 probe with two gas, 19 probes on one gas, and 16 with no gas.
By the way:
+ Show Spoiler +
15 Assimilator along with a chronoboost on the nexus is the most economically optimal timing for gas; the 30 seconds it takes to build the assimilator will produce the 3 workers needed to saturate it.

Further explanation: Skip if you understood the above
+ Show Spoiler +

So basically it would behoove you to expand right as you get 2 probes on each of your 8 mineral patches… Ideally the second nexus would complete a few seconds after your 17th probe 20th or 23rd finishes at your main. I haven’t done the math but It is impossible to get your second nexus up before you get to 16 probes without cutting production from the nexus. So what am I going on about? Essentially; you’d rather have less probes mining on more mineral patches than more probes mining on less mineral patches. This is due to diminishing returns on each probe after you reach 2 per patch.

Advanced technique:
+ Show Spoiler +

[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=197826]Probe micro to get small economic advantage.

Chronoboosting Probes:
+ Show Spoiler +

Normally it takes 17 seconds to build a probe… the math on Chrono-boosting roughly comes out to an extra probe and a half every 2 two chronos spent on the nexus... meaning you can get 4 probes in the time it takes to make 3… Spending 4 consecutive chronoboosts will yield 11 probes instead 8 in the same time… the math can get complicated with multiple nexus and energy regeneration being slower than amount it cost to chrono boost.

Timing: Elaboration
+ Show Spoiler +

With constant probe production (with-out Chronoboosting) at around (4:40) and [4:20] [with Chronoboosting] your investment in more probes one base will start to diminish returns. At (6:15) [5.40] your will be fully saturated, thus more probes on base will not net you any real gains. For the proposes of this example I assumed that both gases have been taken and saturated. 60 Probes working off of two bases can harvest roughly 1625 minerals and 440 gas per minute. 66 probes mining off of 3 bases can harvest roughly 2025 minerals and 660 gas per minute.

Roughly the best expansion timings 1ST Expo at 3:00 – 2nd Expo 7.00. At 11:30 saturation on 3 bases will be optimul. Times here reflect roughly around the time when an extra nexus would get you more income… so any time past these expo timings your investment in a new base would be worth it..each nexus would pay the greatest deviance at 3.00 and 7.00..

How to use this information:
+ Show Spoiler +
Coming soon...

Why cutting probes is better than maynarding:
+ Show Spoiler +
Coming soon...

Reasons why Protoss is the new macro race:
+ Show Spoiler +
Coming soon...

Concluding remarks:
+ Show Spoiler +
Coming soon...

Q&A
+ Show Spoiler +
Coming soon...

Replays
+ Show Spoiler +
Coming soon...

"Delta G is negative"
Shado.
Profile Joined February 2008
United States187 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 09:11:04
March 19 2011 09:10 GMT
#2
Can you do more research in terms of comparing building you nexus 1-3 probes earlier and later and comparing the data on a graph?

Thinking back on my statement, it makes a lot of sense, the earlier your expo is out, the more economy you get, I guess I don't really see the practical application.
DeltaG
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States84 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 09:13:36
March 19 2011 09:13 GMT
#3
On March 19 2011 18:10 Shado. wrote:
Can you do more research in terms of comparing building you nexus 1-3 probes earlier and later and comparing the data on a graph?

Thinking back on my statement, it makes a lot of sense, the earlier your expo is out, the more economy you get, I guess I don't really see the practical application.


I will do a full update tomorrow with alot more details and visual aids.
"Delta G is negative"
AnxiousHippo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia1451 Posts
March 19 2011 09:49 GMT
#4
Expanding at 3:00 and 7:00 sounds kinda dodgy...
An apple a day keeps the Protoss away | TLHF
Shadowcaster
Profile Joined February 2011
23 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 10:18:25
March 19 2011 10:15 GMT
#5
DeltaG While I appreciate your attempt at analysis. I cant see any of these conclusion actually being useful without an illustration of what else you can achieve while trying to maintain adherence to these insane constraints. This looks very similar to a zerg expansion pattern when encountering a protoss that 3 gate expos with sentry heavy army.

Perhaps before continuing do research on whether how one could achieve peak mining efficiency. See if there is ever a situation when this tactic would be applicable. Other wise this is just a recipe for disaster. Are there any prevailing strategy that would allow such aggressive expansion timings, I dont know of one.

Perhaps you are a gold level zerg attempting to confuse protoss into playing badly in order to drum up some free winz? Clever boy!!!!

EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
March 19 2011 10:31 GMT
#6
On March 19 2011 18:49 35spike1 wrote:
Expanding at 3:00 and 7:00 sounds kinda dodgy...


Yea, more unit constraints (in the form by must have at least so and so by x time) please. Otherwise it's completely impractical and just an exercise in mining.
DeltaG
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States84 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 11:51:21
March 19 2011 11:36 GMT
#7
On March 19 2011 19:15 Shadowcaster wrote:
DeltaG While I appreciate your attempt at analysis. I cant see any of these conclusion actually being useful without an illustration of what else you can achieve while trying to maintain adherence to these insane constraints. This looks very similar to a zerg expansion pattern when encountering a protoss that 3 gate expos with sentry heavy army.

Perhaps before continuing do research on whether how one could achieve peak mining efficiency. See if there is ever a situation when this tactic would be applicable. Other wise this is just a recipe for disaster. Are there any prevailing strategy that would allow such aggressive expansion timings, I dont know of one.

Perhaps you are a gold level zerg attempting to confuse protoss into playing badly in order to drum up some free winz? Clever boy!!!!



On March 19 2011 17:49 DeltaG wrote:
Chem final in 6 hours...but here is something I was working today instead of studying...I'm planning on adding a lot more information tomorrow and also adding visual aids to make it easier to read...




I added a teaser of topics I will be discussing tomorrow. Thank you for those illuminating questions. Questions are most welcomed and I will be delighted to answer them at length. However please refrain from any using accusatory remarks; comments like that are not only nonconstructive but also serve diminish the discussion we are trying to have here. Not to mention disrespectful.
"Delta G is negative"
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