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A blind 7rr into expand + drone + lair follow up.
Not to be confused with the 5RR, or other 7RR all in type builds. Although this is a variant, I feel its safer vs some openings like cannon cheese, 15nexus, zealot heavy 4wg (Korean style) 2gate heavy pressure, and pretty much delays any 1gate into tech builds.
This build is basically the fastest, safest way you can get 7 roaches fielded for a timing attack. It isn't followed by additional reinforcements, like speedlings in the 5RR, but uses extra larvae to gain an economic advantage.
*edit*
I changed 10 OL to 9OL. The change allows for an extra drone before the roaches.
9 OL
12pool
Drones to 16
(extractor with 14th drone when it pops, which is almost right around when the 16th drone will start with 9ol)
15 OL
15 Queen + lings
(3 drones on gas)
18 drone
19 drone
+ Show Spoiler +***don't make a drone on 19 if you mess up any timings or had any idle mining time for whatever reason. It will end up delaying the 7th roach because you have to wait for minerals and/or you won't have 7 larvae on pop, only 6. If everything is timed right you can have the extra drone***.
20 OL
(use lings to kill scout, then scout with the lings)
@ 70-80% queen completion, build roach warren
33/34 OL
33/34 Drone
When the queen pops, you inject larvae, fight off any scout to try and keep the warren hidden. Find their base with your lings or your first OL. When warren pops, so do the inject larvae, giving 7 larvae total, and you will have exactly enough min/gas to make 7 roaches
(If the bo is timed right, otherwise you are short about 50 minerals and wait ~ 3-5 seconds for 7th roach)
Pull drones off gas at 176 (or right after you make your roaches, this happens at the same time unless there was a mineral delay, pull gas before roaches at 176)
7roaches start building, inject larvae.
Build an OL with next larvae. Next 6 larvae are drones, and you put down an expo at 300minerals, throw 3 drones on gas again. If you send out a drone right behind your roaches when they spawn, the drone will arrive at an expo at 300minerals.
Depending on what the attack situation is, you either want to get ling speed with next 100gas or tech lair with the next 100. I usually tech lair if my roaches are still going strong.
Get a creep tumor instead of injecting a 3rd time. (inject -> roaches, inject -> drones, next 25 energy is creep tumor) Creep towards ramp and put down a spinecrawler and/or make a few roaches and/or lings if you think there is a counter or a runby. This usually happens if they sneek out a small force during your 7rr attack. (if your getting lings, you probably started ling speed @100g, like if there are marauders or stalkers fielded) Get your 2nd gas up after you are saturated on minerals and 1st gas.
You have to deal significant damage with the roaches before you lose them, or else you can be counter attacked before your ling speed, or hydra production kicks in. If you are forced to make more roaches to defend, you will probably end up losing a longer game, or end up even at the best. The 7rr transitions really well into a macro game assuming you picked off some pylons, units, and force him to pull probes, and didn't get countered in a base trade type situation. 3 roaches 1shot a probe, so if you have 3+ roaches in a mineral line, put each 3 in its own control group so you don't overkill single targets.
I default going hydra after lair in this build. I get mutas shortly after that when I have 2base running, corruptors for collossi, and play it out by ear, usually from the lead.
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How fast do you have the roaches out? Like 5-ish?
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You need 7RR to counter the 30TR. But I don't think you can do that without the 14GG.
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On October 18 2010 07:37 lisherwin wrote:
You need 7RR to counter the 30TR. But I don't think you can do that without the 14GG. Say that again in english plz lol
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Just to be clear, the difference between this build and the 5RR is that you cut 2 drones and zergling speed for additional roaches? I think I'd prefer to have a few zerglings, stalkers can still kite roaches forever can't they?
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On October 18 2010 07:44 TheFinalWord wrote:
Just to be clear, the difference between this build and the 5RR is that you cut 2 drones and zergling speed for additional roaches? I think I'd prefer to have a few zerglings, stalkers can still kite roaches forever can't they?
It is a little alleviated with 4 range to roach. Sure they can kite, but you are going to break down a wall and get to the mineral line in the process. Plus with 2 more roaches, you have more logivity to the attack, while you get drones at home instead of lings, like with the 5 roach.
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On October 18 2010 07:44 TheFinalWord wrote:
stalkers can still kite roaches forever can't they?
As long as they can retreat forever, yes.
Your replay is, unfortunately, not a very good indicator the success of this build. Your opponent was, sadly, quite depressing as a Protoss player. Despite his poor opening macro and lack of a BO, he could have caused you some severe trouble with his counter attack if he'd reinforced with Sentries, kept your ramp FF and just didn't try to get into your main.
If you continue with this build, I think you could certainly use some refinement as you end up with quite a surplus of minerals. Perhaps a third in-base hatch? I'm not a Zerg player, so I can't offer too much advice. But, as a Protoss player, I can certainly say your opponent was subpar compared to you in this particular replay.
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Yeah, about the replay, it is just to showcase the BO, and not so much the actual play by both me and the opponent. I also noticed him not FF my ramp, which I kind of expected, and I actually thought it would buy me time  but he didnt and came up. The 3rd inbase hatch is probably the best bet in a mineral surpluss, although i think I was going for a 2:1 ratio of min/gas to pump out a round of hydras, but I don't remember.
Again, the replay is just a rough example of the BO.
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i used this against T and it works very well if T goes 1-1-1 or factory based , but if you see double rax you better pullback and build a few spines...
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On October 18 2010 08:11 P00RKID wrote:Yeah, about the replay, it is just to showcase the BO, and not so much the actual play by both me and the opponent. I also noticed him not FF my ramp, which I kind of expected, and I actually thought it would buy me time but he didnt and came up. The 3rd inbase hatch is probably the best bet in a mineral surpluss, although i think I was going for a 2:1 ratio of min/gas to pump out a round of hydras, but I don't remember. Again, the replay is just a rough example of the BO.
Ah, ok. You seemed to execute it well enough, but it's really hard to tell without an opponent to force you to use it to its fullest, or as close to that as possible.
You did spend your resources eventually, but you were on a pretty big surplus of minerals over gas for a large portion of the game (until about the time you started your 4th Hatch, I think).
Edit: Perhaps some more speedlings/spines to be annoying or as defense until Hydras come out (instead of Roach defense).
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Yah I think getting a spine crawler or two would be pretty easy and would save gas, perhaps even not going for the 3rd gas as soon, so I can afford more drones, and the crawlers if needed.
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P00RKID ,
I just started using this build after reading this thread and it's working out wonderfully for me so far. After getting promoted from Silver to Gold, I was getting stomped by Protoss when I tried to do a FE Macro based game. I would have a good mix of slings/roaches/hydras and would just get rolled by mass stalkers with collosus.
However, now with this build I am on the offensive and getting wins in ~10 minutes while a macro-based game takes about ~20-25. Anyway, I had a 4 game losing streak before trying this build, and now have a 7 game winning streak, 5 from this build and 2 from a 6pool rush
Also, it is keeping my minerals/gas down greatly. My Avg. Unspent is around 250 now and when the push hits with 6 roaches with more being queued in P is hard pressed to defend, T as well.
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I'll admit I didn't give 5RR a lot of tests but it didn't feel good to me. It might be 1.1.2, or additional experience, but 7RR feels a lot better.
A few observations I had while testing it both against AI and on the ladder:
I used the extractor trick, so my BO is 11 overlord 13 pool and the rest the same
The lings will pop at ~3:20 game time, the roaches at ~5:10
The drone count at ~5:10 is 15 compared to a drone count of 16 at ~3:45 from a 13 pool/13 gas
3 roaches can 1-shot a marine
The 32 hatch leaves you vulnerable to a timed counter-attack if the roaches are suicided
Wall experiences:
With my shoddy micro I pushed through a rax/depot wall and 8 marines
With a forge fast expand I pushed through the forge and canon
I could not push through a canon gauntlet at the ramp top (with visibility this might work but the P was teching anyway)
Thanks for sharing the build.
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It's because 5RR and any variation of it is pretty much garbage unless you catch someone with an awkward tech build.
Idra only did it vs that one terran on xel'naga as a joke.
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Hm, this build seems a bit risky compared to the regular 5RR, because you cut 3 drones until the roaches pop. 3 drones is a lot if you want an economic follow-through, so those 2 extra roaches need to pay for themselves, there is no aborting the attack if it looks unfavorable. I might try it out because the 4 range roaches allow for some nice pressure against wall-offs without engaging the defending units, but I think 5 roaches can do that job as well.
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On October 18 2010 17:18 Sirion wrote:
Hm, this build seems a bit risky compared to the regular 5RR, because you cut 3 drones until the roaches pop. 3 drones is a lot if you want an economic follow-through, so those 2 extra roaches need to pay for themselves, there is no aborting the attack if it looks unfavorable.
This is what I was alluding to with drone comparisons to a 13 pool/13 gas. There is a substantial drone hit so the roaches need to offset this with a lot of damage. When I pressured the wall structures or ground forces, I won. When I had to pull back, I lost.
A 14 pool/15 hatch has not droned past 7RR when the 7 roaches pop. While 7RR is getting 32 hatch, the 15 hatch is droning hard. Regardless, I feel very vulnerable with the 15 hatch but safer as the aggressor.
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I've just been trying this build out on the ladder, and it works very well against P/T. Unless they scout it and prepare for it, it does a lot of damage and allows me to go into the midgame very strong. Sometimes it just wins outright.
My problem with zerg is always going into the midgame with a disadvantage from early pressure. Even if my opponent doesn't manage to do much damage, my macro suffers. This build gives me plenty of breathing room.
Against zerg it's a bit problematic. I fought an opponent who went researched speed and sent 6 lings to my base. I managed to hold them off and get my 7 roaches out, but he knew they were coming, and by the time I got to his base he had 6 roaches and 4 speedlings. It was gg right there. It seems vs. zerg it's better to get a few speedlings and then a few roaches, and work from there.
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Since this thread got pointed out in another thread about 7RR, just want to point out a couple things.
First of all, never ever suggest 10OL in a build. Yeah, I know, cool uses it. Every other pro is doing 9OL because it's better. And if you want to do something with the 10th drone (scout, whatever), 11OL on an extractor trick is better. *always*
Second, you can 14pool, drone up to 17, extractor trick to get the queen when the pool finishes, squeeze in a couple extra drones, and only knock 2-3 seconds off the roach timing.
Doing this will give you enough minerals to expand just as the roaches are popping out.
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On October 20 2010 07:50 Skrag wrote:
Second, you can 14pool, drone up to 17, extractor trick to get the queen when the pool finishes, squeeze in a couple extra drones, and only knock 2-3 seconds off the roach timing.
When are you getting the pool in a 14 versus 12? When doing 12, it flows naturally into the queen, 2 lings, RW while preventing a scout from seeing the Warren.
I feel if you go 14, you are delaying your Queen, not getting any zlings and leaving yourself very vulnerable to a scout seeing your RW, killing it's effectiveness.
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On October 18 2010 07:04 P00RKID wrote:
This build is basically the fastest, safest way you can get 7 roaches fielded for a timing attack.
10 overpool or 11 overpool is faster as far as I know so don't say this 12 pool build is the fastest.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-158553.jpg)
