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Wow, anyone else just watch his stream?
I was just blown away by what Zerg can do ... with map control, scouting, flanking, feints, draws, sacrificial play, etc. it's quite amazing how much tactics top Zerg play can involve.
Key takeaways I got:
1) Overlords are for scouting -- keep tabs on his naturals, and during mid game sac an overlord about every minute to keep tabs on his unit composition and know exactly when he starts his tank push.
2) Constant aggression is necessary -- because Terran's mid-game tank push is so deadly, you need to delay that push as long as possible before he gets critical mass tanks. Early roach and speedling to counter fast hellion (note no spine crawlers), then baneling bust. If he's going mass reaper, you can go baneling bust before roaches.
3) Countering the mid-game tank push with baneling drops, flanks, feints, draws and overlord sac'ing -- there are so many things to discuss here. First, it's so important to take control of wide open spaces -- typically the center of the map. Because you'll know exactly when he moves out, and potentially overwhelm him before he can set up position in the mid. If you need more time, keep feinting and drawing back, force him to siege/resiege. If you can, split your army into 3 groups -- roaches on one side, zerglings on the other side, and 8 banelings in 2 overlords for the baneling bomb drop. The target is to eliminate the tier-1/hellion army first so that your speedlings can quickly and efficiently destroy the tank army. Lead roaches in first to draw tank fire, then speedlings, all while overlords are running in to absorb marine fire and drop banelings -- you should make quick work of the marines. He may be able to finish the rest of your army with his leftover tanks, but your second production cycle of all lings shoudl clean him up no problem. At this point, you've most likely won as it'll take too long for him to rebuild a sizeable enough tank push, and your speedlings will rape any tier-1 army he can muster up.
4) Mineral line harass with baneling bomb drops -- with overlord positioning, you should be able to keep an eye on your opponent's naturals and see how well defended they are. And with an overlord sac every minute or so, you'll know where his army is positined too. Take 4-8 banelings in 3 overlords, and go to town.
Anyone else want to share some notes they found were awesome in the Sen games he streamed?
(btw, please no whining about imbalances here, or which race takes more skill, etc....)
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Didn't watch his stream, don't know who this is, please provide a link 
And all those points is i think pretty standard high level zerg play? if there wasn't anything i missed.
Id like teh livestream links though so i could check out the VODs
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And all those points is i think pretty standard high level zerg play? if there wasn't anything i missed.
I watch a ton of high level zerg replays and baneling drops are pretty rare. Researching ventral sacs is fairly uncommon itself. Most high level zerg use spine crawlers and queens to defend their expansion against hellions. It is less frequent that a zerg uses pure units for defense early on.
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On July 31 2010 03:15 Snowfield wrote:Didn't watch his stream, don't know who this is, please provide a link And all those points is i think pretty standard high level zerg play? if there wasn't anything i missed. Id like teh livestream links though so i could check out the VODs
Sen is a contender for being the best player in the world. It's a shame he wasn't invited to KotB (not to take anything from the winner of that tourney though.) I'm blown away every time I see Sen play.
Before facing Sen TLO claimed that his TvZ was unstoppable. Sen took him down quite a few notches.
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On July 31 2010 03:11 Happy.fairytail wrote:
Wow, anyone else just watch his stream?
I was just blown away by what Zerg can do ... with map control, scouting, flanking, feints, draws, sacrificial play, etc. it's quite amazing how much tactics top Zerg play can involve.
Key takeaways I got:
1) Overlords are for scouting -- keep tabs on his naturals, and during mid game sac an overlord about every minute to keep tabs on his unit composition and know exactly when he starts his tank push.
2) Constant aggression is necessary -- because Terran's mid-game tank push is so deadly, you need to delay that push as long as possible before he gets critical mass tanks. Early roach and speedling to counter fast hellion (note no spine crawlers), then baneling bust. If he's going mass reaper, you can go baneling bust before roaches.
3) Countering the mid-game tank push with baneling drops, flanks, feints, draws and overlord sac'ing -- there are so many things to discuss here. First, it's so important to take control of wide open spaces -- typically the center of the map. Because you'll know exactly when he moves out, and potentially overwhelm him before he can set up position in the mid. If you need more time, keep feinting and drawing back, force him to siege/resiege. If you can, split your army into 3 groups -- roaches on one side, zerglings on the other side, and 8 banelings in 2 overlords for the baneling bomb drop. The target is to eliminate the tier-1/hellion army first so that your speedlings can quickly and efficiently destroy the tank army. Lead roaches in first to draw tank fire, then speedlings, all while overlords are running in to absorb marine fire and drop banelings -- you should make quick work of the marines. He may be able to finish the rest of your army with his leftover tanks, but your second production cycle of all lings shoudl clean him up no problem. At this point, you've most likely won as it'll take too long for him to rebuild a sizeable enough tank push, and your speedlings will rape any tier-1 army he can muster up.
4) Mineral line harass with baneling bomb drops -- with overlord positioning, you should be able to keep an eye on your opponent's naturals and see how well defended they are. And with an overlord sac every minute or so, you'll know where his army is positined too. Take 4-8 banelings in 3 overlords, and go to town.
Anyone else want to share some notes they found were awesome in the Sen games he streamed?
(btw, please no whining about imbalances here, or which race takes more skill, etc....)
You should watch Cool's replays too. I think he was the first to use the roach/speedling/banelings combination to rape terran mech when every1 said it was OP vs zerg.
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Didn't know he had a stream.... he's so awesome loved his play against TLO in the asia vs europe
thanks for the stream link, definitely need to watch him
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You should watch Cool's replays too. I think he was the first to use the roach/speedling/banelings combination to rape terran mech when every1 said it was OP vs zerg.
links or livestream link plz? =)
Man, I'm still so pumped after watching Sen's games. They were so nail-bitingly tense, I'm still shaking. ZvT is so intense because of all the timing attacks that Zerg is doing everything he can to fend off or delay, so that he can launch the game ending counterattack. From the TvZ point of view, it's more like this terrible sense of dread growing in the pit of your stomach that if you don't attack soon, you automatically lose to Zerg macro lol =P Dang, so stressful!
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On July 31 2010 03:27 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 03:15 Snowfield wrote:Didn't watch his stream, don't know who this is, please provide a link And all those points is i think pretty standard high level zerg play? if there wasn't anything i missed. Id like teh livestream links though so i could check out the VODs Sen is a contender for being the best player in the world. It's a shame he wasn't invited to KotB (not to take anything from the winner of that tourney though.) I'm blown away every time I see Sen play. Before facing Sen TLO claimed that his TvZ was unstoppable. Sen took him down quite a few notches.
I believe in IdrA's interview he said Sen was invited but couldn't make it. I love watching Sen play. He has such a fluid gameplay.
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I have to agree. The games were amazing.
The thing that kind of bothered me though was that Sen had to have amazing control. Super stellar control. Flanking, feinting, overlord sac'ing, baneling dropping all to counter terrans 1a2a siege play. Then, the terran's push was still very nearly successful.
Something seems a bit wrong about that.
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I did watch his stream during these games and as a zerg player I was amazed! The fact that he goes lair only to get the overlord upgrades to keep the pressure up is something I would never have thought to do on my own.
Sen's scouting is ALWAYS amazing and all zergs should check his positioning out for all the maps since they are in such key locations.
A final note, I do sack overlords frequently to absord damage and to scout/feint the oppenent. A tactic that is tricky to use but is very effective.. As Sen proved!
Sen fans unite!!!
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On July 31 2010 03:27 Ocedic wrote:
Before facing Sen TLO claimed that his TvZ was unstoppable. Sen took him down quite a few notches.
I think this is wrong TLO has been claiming strength in his ZvT not his TvZ.
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On July 31 2010 03:36 Happy.fairytail wrote:Show nested quote +You should watch Cool's replays too. I think he was the first to use the roach/speedling/banelings combination to rape terran mech when every1 said it was OP vs zerg. links or livestream link plz? =) Man, I'm still so pumped after watching Sen's games. They were so nail-bitingly tense, I'm still shaking. ZvT is so intense because of all the timing attacks that Zerg is doing everything he can to fend off or delay, so that he can launch the game ending counterattack. From the TvZ point of view, it's more like this terrible sense of dread growing in the pit of your stomach that if you don't attack soon, you automatically lose to Zerg macro lol =P Dang, so stressful!
search 17173.com VODs. Watch his series versus check
Sen went roachling into baneling bust? That sounds like an allin.
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On July 31 2010 03:53 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 03:27 Ocedic wrote:
Before facing Sen TLO claimed that his TvZ was unstoppable. Sen took him down quite a few notches. I think this is wrong TLO has been claiming strength in his ZvT not his TvZ.
No he did say his TvZ was unstoppable a while back, then Sen beat him.
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How often or what times does Sen stream? Honestly I've had his stream bookmarked for like 2 months now (different url from beta) and It's always been offline 
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On July 31 2010 03:53 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 03:27 Ocedic wrote:
Before facing Sen TLO claimed that his TvZ was unstoppable. Sen took him down quite a few notches. I think this is wrong TLO has been claiming strength in his ZvT not his TvZ.
No, for quite some time TLO had claimed to never have lost to Zerg as Terran. Day9 boasted about it with him for a while as well. If you recall TLO went from being pure Random to Random vs Terran, Terran vs Zerg and Zerg vs Protoss. He had a roughly equal win ratio as anything vs Terran, but lost a large amount of PvZ, ZvZ, TvP and PvP. I think he's sense gone to almost exclusively Terran, but I could be wrong. I haven't seen him as anything except Terran in quite some time.
On topic... I like Sen. Very solid player with a good game sense.
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On July 31 2010 03:45 Faulteh wrote:
I have to agree. The games were amazing.
The thing that kind of bothered me though was that Sen had to have amazing control. Super stellar control. Flanking, feinting, overlord sac'ing, baneling dropping all to counter terrans 1a2a siege play. Then, the terran's push was still very nearly successful.
Something seems a bit wrong about that.
This kind of reasoning kills me- and its all i read on the forums. The tanks are 1a 2a because they cant move around like crazy cracked up insects. You cant flank with tanks (unless your like rediculously baller). T is all about positioning with mech, and the micro and control happens during harasses and the like. Hellion harass, reaper harass, drop harrass (thors hellions or just bio), all require excellent control or you just get rolled over.
ON TOPIC: Sen is a total baller- and those baneling drops on the min lines make me fear for my future. Honestly i have no idea how to deal with large #s of banelings mid-lategame.
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My problem so far in plat is getting owned by Air units.
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On July 31 2010 03:27 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 03:15 Snowfield wrote:Didn't watch his stream, don't know who this is, please provide a link And all those points is i think pretty standard high level zerg play? if there wasn't anything i missed. Id like teh livestream links though so i could check out the VODs Sen is a contender for being the best player in the world. It's a shame he wasn't invited to KotB (not to take anything from the winner of that tourney though.) I'm blown away every time I see Sen play. Before facing Sen TLO claimed that his TvZ was unstoppable. Sen took him down quite a few notches.
Completely false. Why do people make stuff up?
TLO said that he hadn't lost yet with his TvZ build on lost temple. He never claimed unstoppable TvZ.
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On July 31 2010 03:27 Ocedic wrote:
It's a shame he wasn't invited to KotB (not to take anything from the winner of that tourney though.)
He was invited, but couldn't participate, IIRC.
Edit: Galneryus's post says this. I should have refreshed before posting my reply.
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EPT
