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Dragonshire
Uploaded to: [NA] [EU] [KR] [SEA]
Poll: How do you rate this map?Awesome! (40) 65% Playable but not my favorite or first choice (17) 27% Cool tileset but not good in terms of balance (3) 5% It's so bad I could vomit (2) 3% 62 total votes Your vote: How do you rate this map? (Vote): Awesome!
(Vote): Playable but not my favorite or first choice
(Vote): It's so bad I could vomit
(Vote): Cool tileset but not good in terms of balance
Backstory:
Terran scavengers were taking apart an old satellite when they discovered a wormhole by accident. Unable to escape its gravitational pull, they were pulled in, traveling across dimensions outside the Koprulu Sector to a mystical world called Azeroth. Realizing the plethora of resources at their disposal, they went to work, but quickly realized they were not alone in the forgotten forests of the ancient world.
Description:
The tileset was inspired by warcraft 2 and 3, and the trees themselves are imported from the beloved warcraft 3.
![[image loading]](http://us.blizzard.com/static/_images/games/legacy/war22.jpg)
The map is intended to be for long macro games, with eight expansions per player. There is a single watch tower in the middle, yet the layout still demands exceptional positional play in order to win. The 3rd/4th bases outside the naturals feel very open, but in-game they are a good size, especially when there's one entrance directly into each base, making them sustainable. The linear third bases have an adjustable rock tower to narrow down the choke for defensive purposes, but can be widened later on for broader attacks. As for the aesthetics, there are dragon nests in various places around the map, with eggs the size of marauders. The burned areas resemble dragons flying by and scorching the scavengers with their fiery breath. Enjoy!
Map Features & Info:
*152x152
Watch tower in middle
Main to Main: 42 seconds
Pictures: (outdated)
+ Show Spoiler +
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Love the call back to WC2 and WC3, my only question is the main too long? It could maybe be moved in alittle.
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Hey great map , very pleasing asthetic , especially since I have a bad eye sight. I got the chance to play some games on it with a friend of mine and here's my thoughts.
-The main base might be slightly too big but if you decide to leave it as it is it's perfeclty fine by me.
-The third bases seems really exposed and far away. As a player i'd recommend to put it closer or put a doodad there to shrink the amount of space.
-The no watch towers is a YES YES for me. I really enjoy maps without watch towers because it forces more scouting and I think we should encourage that.
-I just plain love the vibe of this map. It really feels like i'm playing warcraft with sc2 units 
All in all you did a great job in my humble opinion.You don't have to do anything that I said , I'm by no means a good sc2 player , this is just a personal thought and what I felt as a Player. Keep making them I love it Cheers!
OliRSVP.
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This is great, the nostalgia is kicking in!
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Thanks for the concerns so far.
The main bases seem to be the most controversial based on feedback here and on reddit, but they are actually quite small, or average size. I think the mere shape of them makes it feel otherwise which is understandable. I don't want to shrink it too much because the airspace is already big enough and changing the main bases would only increase that airspace. I could just re-position the mineral lines to where there's equal scouting chance all around the main base without feeling like you have to run so far away.
The 3rd and 4th bases are equally distanced from the natural. I have worked with other mappers during the map's development and it was ensured that the 3rd/4th is a fair distance, given that there's only one legit entrance into each one directly. It's really a trade off - close 3rd that's more open, or a 3rd that's slightly further but still manageable.
One thing we have to remember is that some bases might feel more exposed, but the enrichment is found in positional play due to the lack of watch towers. By utilizing key scouting points across the map, the thirds being "more open" becomes obsolete.
The other thing you have to keep in mind is neither option for the third base is more exposed than the other since the main attack path is through the center high ground, so depending on which direction you expand, it will offer alternatives for how to attack and defend based on the terrain.
As I said on reddit, this is a new map that will take some getting used to. I haven't had any issues with the thirds but I will keep a close eye on it.
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Possible works in the pipeline:
1) Adding critters
2) Adding neutral wisps (wc3 worker)
3) Examining the main base size
4) Examining the third base size
5) Possibly adding flooded areas
6) altering water texture
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Love the nostalgic aesthetics. Eggs are my favourite. Sheep can be really fitting to the map as critters! I like how two rush routes lead players to opponents' thirds.
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On April 01 2017 13:14 RQM wrote:
Love the nostalgic aesthetics. Eggs are my favourite. Sheep can be really fitting to the map as critters! I like how two rush routes lead players to opponents' thirds.
I like the 3rd layouts as well, it feels a little more creative. I'm not sure how or why but maybe the tileset makes it feel that way.
I am looking to add more warcraft aesthetics, do you think you can tell me how to get the orgrimmar watch towers?
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I can tell you, but you might be disappointed.
+ Show Spoiler +
My watch tower is actually a mixture of various doodads. It can be looking good in the distance but you may find it odd when seeing it near. Maybe a model from WC3 mod would be better I guess.
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That's actually very impressive. I'll need to give that a go. I wasn't even aware it was multiple doodads in the first place
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Big update! The map is now published with the following changes:
Balance Update:
1) Main base mineral lines were re-positioned for better scouting potential.
2) Mineral resource values were corrected to 1500/900.
3) Pathing bugs fixed
Aesthetic Update:
+ Show Spoiler [Travel back in time] +1) Dragons have been added to live up to its map name. They are neutral (does not die or kill). ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/liasY5e.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Vuwm6pK.jpg) 2) The beloved sheep is back. A few of these wander the lands. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QzAAehC.jpg) 3) Thrall is in the area, as well as a couple other camps nearby! ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Kc2FOfv.jpg) All aesthetics are purely for the joy of nostalgia. The only minor issue is the units and buildings don't show up in the fog of war. They appear when you have a visual of the area, such as a scan or fly by. I don't know how to fix it but it's not a big deal IMO.
happy gaming!
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Beautiful, would love in on ladder.
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After a couple GM games, with a few more to come, some areas of concern are:
1) the main bases are still slightly too big
2) the linear thirds are slightly too open
3) a watch tower in the very center would be beneficial
There are some minor aesthetic concerns as well:
1) sheep show up on mini-map, even in the fog of war
2) (Zerg) rallying eggs causes a specific noise
3) doodad eggs on the map appear to be glowing
I will be keeping a close eye over the next couple days with more replays to watch and will fix things accordingly.
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Got some more feedback and discovered a critical error in the dependencies that will require some time to fix. Right now you can spawn as any of the Starcraft AND Warcraft races. Not good.
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very interesting! but yes not good. lol
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nLxu4kN.jpg)
Interesting indeed
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Everything works fine as long as you don't play as random. In the meantime allow a few days for corrections.
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my question is, If i were to play ORC would my Grunt beat a Zealot in OvP ? god i love this!
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On April 05 2017 15:42 MilleusPro wrote:
my question is, If i were to play ORC would my Grunt beat a Zealot in OvP ? god i love this!
Theorycrafting is fun but it doesn't work on this map. You can't mine, build, or even move the tree of life. The Warcraft units are nearly twice the height of a marine or zealot. I messed up on the dependencies and it's going to take time to correct it all. Or I could go the easy route and just get rid of all the Warcraft units and doodads.
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On April 05 2017 15:42 MilleusPro wrote:
my question is, If i were to play ORC would my Grunt beat a Zealot in OvP ? god i love this!
Grunts have 700 HP and deal more damage. Grunt wins handily!
On April 04 2017 21:00 IronManSC wrote:
There are some minor aesthetic concerns as well:
1) sheep show up on mini-map, even in the fog of war
I guess you'd lose the melee tag, but 1 can be fixed by setting the Unit's UI: Minimap radius to 0. You can also fix the units not showing through fog of war using UI: Fog Visibility. You might also uncheck the Actor flag "Allow Hit Test" so players dont accidentally select the decorative units. The unit models for WC3 units also have their Art:Scale field set much higher than 1 for some reason, you can fix their size relative to the sc2 units that way.
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So here's the issue I ran into (and I'm extremely dumb for this). When I used the models for warcraft 3, I imported the actual war3 data dependency. What I should have done was open a new map, open the War3 Art mod, export the desired units and doodads, and then import those into Dragonshire so that they are simply doodads, not a dependency.
I'm like 30% done. There's a good chance not all of the doodads you see now are going to be retained (such as Thrall's Hut). But this is a learning curve for me so I'm figuring it out. In the meantime, just don't play as any warcraft races and you'll be fine for the time being.
On the flip side, I am making a couple of balance changes:
1) Experimenting with a watch tower in the middle
2) Rock towers at the linear thirds (adjustable choke size for defendant)
3) Linear 4th ramps reduced to 2x (down from 3x)
4) Main base size reduced slightly
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Map has been updated and re-published. Here are the changes.
1) Warcraft 3 units and buildings were removed. They are too tedious to import and to co-exist with starcraft dependencies. This will cause issues in the future if the map ever gets considered for ladder and I want to avoid that. Sorry. However I am working on getting the sheep imported soon, and possibly the dragons.
2) Watch tower was added to the middle. A few grandmaster test games suggested that this would be beneficial. It offers needed awareness for the center while being able to focus on side paths. The good news is that the watch tower doesn't reveal too much.
3) Water was edited to be more vibrant
4) There was an issue with the eggs being extremely bright and glowing. I adjusted them and they should be fine now hopefully.
5) The main base sizes were reduced.
6) The linear thirds now have a rock tower for players to use accordingly to protect their thirds. Certain buildings are still able to be hit by siege from behind the rocks.
7) LOS was removed from the tiny chokes on the high ground bases and instead added around the watch tower.
8) The linear 4th base ramps were both reduced to 2x (down from 3x). Players felt the linear 4th was too open and harder to defend, so the ramp sizes were reduced.
9) Dependencies were fixed. Previously you could spawn as warcraft races.
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Super sweet idea with the wc3 look, it's quite "soft" versus almost every other map around, which feel very gritty in some ways, even in lush jungles. Dragon shires tileset is almost as soft as some beach tiles sets kicking around the net.
I'm not sure about some parts of the layout though, the middle high ground base locations look a little awkward to me.
Call me crazy but if I were to try something, it would be to block the forward ramp closest to the base with rocks, and make the middle ramps that are blocked now, with collapsibles.
It just feels a little base tradey to me?
That and the rocks near that potential third feel weird, why not block things a little farther forward and doodad the space where the rocks are now? They don't seem to have much real utility for being natural 4th.
Bad ideas?
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I'm still deciding on what to do with the linear thirds. The rocks may seem awkward but they work because they can create a smaller choke which is great for Terran and Protoss, given the fact that it's very open outside the natural. But it also works because you can re-open it again later on and make it tougher to defend. I could add more doodads in place of those rocks but I feel it would take away from the strategic value it offers.
Base trading seems like it would be problematic but it's too early to tell. Fixing an issue like base trading, or split map control, would force me to overhaul the middle design and I'm long past that part. It can be a base trade depending on which bases you take, your army mobility, and more. I don't think it would be a general outcome.
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How do I find this map? I'm pretty nooby and cant seem to find it on the arcade D:
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On April 23 2017 20:26 Snuzzy wrote:
How do I find this map? I'm pretty nooby and cant seem to find it on the arcade D:
Go to Multiplayer -> Custom -> Search for Dragonshire
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On April 23 2017 21:08 InfCereal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2017 20:26 Snuzzy wrote:
How do I find this map? I'm pretty nooby and cant seem to find it on the arcade D: Go to Multiplayer -> Custom -> Search for Dragonshire
Thank you!~
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Discovered another issue. When Zerg creep touches the dragon eggs, they transform into trees. The eggs are actually a model that I overwrote on a tree I wasn't planning on using, however the creep transition needs to be fixed.
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I think it's a beautiful map, well done.
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I actually really like the layout of this map. The third/fourth layout reminds me of cactus valley except less punishing.
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On April 10 2017 07:29 IronManSC wrote:
1) Warcraft 3 units and buildings were removed. They are too tedious to import and to co-exist with starcraft dependencies. This will cause issues in the future if the map ever gets considered for ladder and I want to avoid that. Sorry. However I am working on getting the sheep imported soon, and possibly the dragons.
No way to work around this?
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On May 02 2017 14:12 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2017 07:29 IronManSC wrote:
1) Warcraft 3 units and buildings were removed. They are too tedious to import and to co-exist with starcraft dependencies. This will cause issues in the future if the map ever gets considered for ladder and I want to avoid that. Sorry. However I am working on getting the sheep imported soon, and possibly the dragons.
No way to work around this?
It is doable, but it is a long and tedious process which I do not want to involve myself in. The worst part is, if anything is broken, unnecessary, or not ladder appropriate, it is a bigger process than just deleting the dependencies. As much as I would LOVE warcraft units in the game (possibly the dragon soon), I just don't want to put myself in a position that may come back to bite me in the arse.
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Latest version is now released with two changes:
1) The rock towers by the third bases were removed. Extra doodads were added to shorten the width of the linear 3rd choke.
2) The egg nests in the middle of the map can no longer be touched by creep.
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Damn, WC3 creeps would have been a great idea to block entrances instead of destructable rock towers 
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Rock towers were removed and some more doodads were added instead. There are no further changes to make as of right now.
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Very nice love the WC3!!!!
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For the next update soon, I will be replacing the trees with haven, or something closer to somewhat maintain the integrity of Warcraft appeal. At the end of the day I want the map to be playable and replacing the trees will enable that.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SIU3NZj.jpg)
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