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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eXAoq.jpg)
V1.3
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V1.4
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Angled view:
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Hello and welcome to my first map thread here on TL. Though this is not my first map, this is the first to reach the acceptable level of my expectations from myself. Fallen Haven is a 2 spawn map with a large valley in the middle, looked over by two decreased ranged Xel'naga Towers. There are several interesting features to the map shown later.
Details:
Players: 2
Expansions: 10
Playable Map size: 114x160
Watch Towers: 2 (decreased range) looking over secondary paths and most of the main path.
Available: EU
Detailed shots:
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Analyser pics
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For all the pictures in one place: Go to my imigur album
I'd like you to give me all the feedback you can! Tell me everything you can think of and if you can, please run some test rounds with your friends. This map is accessable on the EU servers only right now. Just look for it on Battle.net or search for BaNZaY if you want to see all my maps. (The others are not so noteable so don't really bother with them as of yet.
Updates:
- V1.4: Put natural chokes farther, made rocked choke to 3rd larger, made ramp to natural highground larger, removed rock from gold, decreased the size of the highground at the 4th facing the 3rd
- V1.6: Removed one natural choke, made the other one larger, placed rocks to the farther entrance to the 4th, removed 5th entirely
Thank you!
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reminds me of destination...so i like it 
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The 3rd is really far away and the main looks kinda small.
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On June 13 2011 04:08 IronManSC wrote:
The 3rd is really far away and the main looks kinda small.
Oh come on, it's not that far if you destroy the rocks. Looks awesome! <3
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On June 13 2011 04:25 ShnAndrei wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 04:08 IronManSC wrote:
The 3rd is really far away and the main looks kinda small. Oh come on, it's not that far if you destroy the rocks. Looks awesome! <3
So what you're saying is that yes, it's far, but it's not that far even with the rocks down (while implying that it is still far even WITH the rocks destroyed).
The problem is that it's your only option of expanding after you take the natural. Want the gold? That's far away too, and it's blocked by rocks, and it's out in the open. You also have to destroy rocks just to get to the gold in the short cut on the highground, but in fact it's not a short cut at all. Terran would be extremely immobile if they took the gold as their 3rd.
This map is highly encouraging 2-base play. Remove the rocks in that narrow choke and it might fix it.
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I have played several times on this map and if you have at least a few combat units you are able to destroy those rocks before your expo is complete. Removing the rocks would however mean even more entrances to the Natural. Also it's very easy to guard both the natural AND the Third from the same point, you only have to worry about the ramp from the 4th. In my oppinion, yes, it is far away, but it's not that hard to defend at all.
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I'm thinking the fourth (ie the basin infront of the highground fifh) is too close to the onther bases and should have the mins turned 180 and uptight towards the edge of the center area. Those three set of bases 93rd,4th,5th) are really too close together and moving it as i said would balance out the placement a bit more. You could even make it a golds since it would be in the open.
Also because of the the high ground nex to the nat entrance is rotated it makes the gold really far and hard to get especially with the rocks. At least remove the rocks but i might suggest having the rocked ramp from that entrance highground angle towards the gold.
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I have made some changes to the map and tested it in different matchups. It has shown to be true that the third is hard to defend so I made some changes. Thoug you suggested to make the path without the rock to be shorter, I made that path even longer becouse the position between the natural and third was too powerful for a contain. Now the path to the third with the rock is wider so thet a defending army can be manouvered trough there easily. There are some other changes, check them out in the description.
I will soon update the detailed pictures as well. For now I only put the picture about the whole map up.
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Just out of curiosity, did the name come from anywhere?
Because there was a great turn-based strategy game called Fallen Haven which was a little bit like starcraft.
Looks like a solid map, in any case.
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On June 19 2011 04:09 BaNZaY wrote:
I made that path even longer becouse the position between the natural and third was too powerful for a contain.
I have a feeling this is a result of me just sieging up there when i played terran vs you ^^
The map seems pretty balanced, but Terran and (especially) Protoss players will need practice on this map to figure out good building placement when expanding.
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Not only that, Pietro, but Andrei and Cpu helped me test the map and we all came to the conclusion that it's almost impossible to break a contain there, even with both rocks down. But our game helped too
On June 19 2011 04:37 TedJustice wrote:
Just out of curiosity, did the name come from anywhere?
Because there was a great turn-based strategy game called Fallen Haven which was a little bit like starcraft.
Looks like a solid map, in any case.
Actually the idea might have came from there as well, becouse I played that game too I liked that game but it didn't run even under WinXP. Also the textures are mainly from the Haven tileset, so that's another reson.
I'm planning on making another little change soon to the map to make it even more user friendly.
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Haha I thought this map was Destination or Crossfire at first! Despite your patches, I played one game on it and I still have problems dealing with multiple drops from Terran, also since the Main and Natural distance is close. Now that I think of it, this map looks more and more like Crossfire lol! Overall I like the idea and structure of the map, very well organized and designed!
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Looks like a very good map, but it looks very easy for a Terran to put a PF and guard the small expansion (the one with only one gas), then get 2 more bases really easily, much like Jungle Basin was.
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This looks like a really nice map
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On June 19 2011 09:08 Omegalisk wrote:
Looks like a very good map, but it looks very easy for a Terran to put a PF and guard the small expansion (the one with only one gas), then get 2 more bases really easily, much like Jungle Basin was.
That seems pretty far fetched. The one gas expansion is far out in the middle and would spread you out to thin.
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I was thinking about making that one gas expo (which is a high yield right now) a two gas (still high yield) expo so that it's at least worth taking. It is very far in the middle and it makes you have to defend a large area, if you take the Natural highground in consideration as well. You need a large army if you want to defend your Main and Natural too.
Now the point of making that base 2 HYG is that it really isn't that much in play. One would reather take the 4th and mybe out of desparation it will be taken, but unless it's a very lategame scenario, that expo just doesn't worth taking right now. Tell me what you think about it, becouse I either will remove that expo or make it worth taking somehow.
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This map is better than the new season 3 ladder maps. 
But unfortunately, the third is still pretty hard to defend. I wouldn't mind if one could defend his third and forth from one single spot, as long as the natural and main would remain uncovered. It would still prevent 3 base turtling. The fact that the third base is so far away is good because of this (one cannot 3 base turtle), but the third should be more easily too defend, otherwise it will just get denied every time.
That fifth you think of changing is extremely hard to defend. Making it a 2 rich vespene expo would compensate for that, but also, would that vespene income be needed at that stage in the game (you will have to test this). If it turns out not to be worth it, it should be better to remove it.
edit: you could at least reorientate that ramp at the third so that it is not facing the expo directly
edit2: how about scraping the 5th and putting 2 rich vespenes at the gold?
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Actually that ramp facing the third is crucial against a contain, becouse without that ramp, a Zerg would have no way of getting out ever from a Terran slowpush. Also I have played a lot of games, on this map obviously, and from my experience it seems to be quite easy to defend those three bases, yet a zerg has options to get extra bases against a turtling T or P. As T you can get a PF at that third, and P usually has a mobile enough army to menouver between the natural and the third should they need to. That is if those most crucial rocks are down, which I think should go down the moment one goes for a third. About a rich gas gold, I think T would be too powerfull with it, I'd reather like to separate the rich gas and the rich minerals from eachother, so that you have to chose which to secure.
Today I will upload v1.5 with rocks at the second 4th ramp and the double gas 5th. Hopefully I can get some tests on it to see how those changes work. I want to thank you all for the feedback, eventhough only a few suggestions have been implemented on the map, becouse some would couse other issues. Keep up the good work!
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On June 21 2011 20:35 BaNZaY wrote:
and P usually has a mobile enough army to menouver between the natural and the third should they need to.
Made me lol.
90% a toss will go Colossi.
Colossi=slow
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Yep, colossi is slow, but more mobile than siege tanks. I think that is what Banzay meant.
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The third base isn't far at all. I don't know what you people are saying.
I like the way you use destructible rocks on this map. The high ground backdoor into the natural reminds me of Scrap Station. More maps need key terrain points like that.
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And here is a new update to the map. I have made the natural a bit safer, for it already had many possible entrances. Also put a destructable rock to the second ramp at the 4th making it a tiny little bit safer, and I removed the 5th below it, becouse no one seemed to take that expo even in the lategame (only some very desperate people). I'm still thinking about putting one rich geyser to the gold, the other stais a normal geyser. Tell me what you think about that change, and the ones I made this time.
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The change is super duper ultra mega giga awesome!! I love how that natural looks, it is like after a cataclysm, with fire coming from the ground. Really awesome!! Too bad it can't be seen very clearly from the picture (it's a picture not an animation after all). But this map is so promising atm! I say promising because there are a few suggestions I would like to make. :D
But I dare every player from the EU server to try this map with a friend, and if it isn't the greatest map ever, then I don't know what it is. It is big enough for macro, but not too big for tactical play or micro strategies. The natural is safe, but with a twist (not too safe). The third is not too close (not granted) but not too hard to defend either. There is equilibrium written all over it.
And I love the small tree obstacles that enable a lot of maneuvering and flanking, while the ramps at the middle of the map really provide a lot of paths to your enemy for counter attacks or bad position punishment such that you never seem to run out of options. Also players cannot take control of the middle of the map easily and the map has features that every race can enjoy (such as the wide open middle for Zerg players).
It may seem to have some resemblance with Crossfire because of the 'Haven' tileset and the size, but there are so many differences and it's so much more interesting than that choky map that you can't even compare them. Also the visuals are astonishing! This is my favoritest favorite map at the moment! <3<3<3 Great job!
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Well Andrei you only left out those suggestions :D I'm listening to every and all good idea regarding the map to make it the best. Thank you for the compliments about the features of the map, but I'm the most open for negative feedback as long as there is any. Once there is not any little thing you see unfit, then I will accept all this apotheosis from you. Map threads are for criticising  So let me hear those issues.
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Issue: Well, I think you intended every player to have his own gold expansion, and I am also thinking that the further gold expansion is the one you intended for each player, not the one that is nearer. But if a player kills the rocks at that high ground in front of his natural, he can easily take his opponent's gold instead of his third, and even continuing to take the expos nearer to the gold, bringing the order of expansions on this map upside down. I think any player would prefer that closer gold instead of his third: they are at about the same distance, and the gold is more rewarding (plus it has a watch tower near it).
Suggestion: Move the gold where the deleted 5th used to be, and make a regular expansion instead of the gold. I would also suggest to move the ramp that leads into the opponent's 4th (the one with rocks blocking it) more closer to where the gold is now (by making that highground that holds his 4th a bit longer). Why? Because this way you could put the gold EXACTLY in front of the ramp at the middle of the map and thus making it even more exposed.
Solving this issue would also make the back door at the high ground in front of the natural work as intended : a weakness in the late game, and not a shorter way to take the gold.
Some other suggestions:
- I think it would be great if you would make the high ground in front of the natural a bit larger (by a hex or so), so that a Terran can build a CC there. I think it only needs one more hex.
- The expo that is currently a gold cannot be harassed by air, because it doesn't have much space behind the minerals. I think it should be nice if you would move the minerals more towards the inner side of the map, and delete a bit of terrain at the edge of the map, so that there is more space for air harass. That area has a bit too much empty ground anyways.
- Visually, could you somehow make the edges of the cliffs, especially in the main, behind the minerals, have ash on them? Like the edges have been burned by fire. I think it would look awesome and it will make the starting locations have even more personality on this map. For example, the Bel'Shir Map has the edges of the cliff behind the main's mineral line look like a sandy beach.
Hope you take into consideration my suggestions. ^^
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I think its really cool but maybe having less destructable rocks because zerg can just do run-bys on all of the expos but i could be wrong
and were can i find this on battle.net
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On June 24 2011 00:54 RevoNinja wrote:
I think its really cool but maybe having less destructable rocks because zerg can just do run-bys on all of the expos but i could be wrong
and were can i find this on battle.net
It's only available on the EU atm unfortunately.
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