I've worked on this map again last night. I felt like with a few changes, the map might work very well in the current state of the game.
Most noticable changes are the destructible debris on the third ramps and the center bases now being half bases.
The natural choke is now a little easier to defend and I've tweaked some more chokes/proportions of the map.
Also, the lighting was changed back to something more standard. Thoughts?

[image loading]

Koagel

Austria167 Posts

February 07 2012 10:53 GMT

#24

Nice. I like the general theme and that you're using doodads sparingly, and not cluster the whole map with them. I think I'd personally texture the mains differently, in a less patchy way. Might just be personal preferance though.

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

February 07 2012 11:07 GMT

#25

I liked it better before. Metropolis uses rocks because it's such a long campy map, but I don't think you need them here because it's a little shorter and the high ground is easier to get up to. I also feel like the 3rd base shouldn't be such a liability to defend at because it's the most important feature (assuming your main and natural are playable). On metropolis no one defends at the 3rd if they can help it because it's low ground and you get zoned out of your own natural so easily. On that map the end result is to promote forward defending (at the ramps from mid) which is fine. Here, I don't think you need to incentivize forward defense because it's already really good to hold the center ramp up from mid, and I'd prefer the defender be allowed to fall back to their 3rd and then cover other areas as the attacker moves.

Probably the better choice to have 6m1h center bases though. But please no rocks. ;D

Oh also you can have a nice high ground protected pylon for warping into the natural if the rocks are there, something to consider.

NewSunshine

United States5938 Posts

February 07 2012 14:40 GMT

#26

On February 07 2012 20:07 EatThePath wrote:
Probably the better choice to have 6m1h center bases though. But please no rocks. ;D

Oh also you can have a nice high ground protected pylon for warping into the natural if the rocks are there, something to consider.

I tend to agree here.

It's a really, really nice map, but I don't think the debris is necessary, it does look like it causes more harm than good.

I always liked the center area though - aesthetics are awesome too.

Oh and I'm curious - what are the bounds here? It always felt to me that the bounds were so much more influential when making exactly this type of map, and it seems like you've nailed it on the head.

ULuMuGuLu

190 Posts

February 07 2012 15:33 GMT

#27

Beautiful Map but pretty much a Terran map. Theres no way a Protoss can make a Fast expand on this map in PvZ. Walloff at main choke: Yes. But there is this 2nd entrance on the left side so u always can run past a wall. This Map isnt any different from "Balancing" than that new 1v1 map where u have two entrances at your natural and to be honst 99 % of my games on this map are cheese or be cheesed. The remaining 1 % are All-ins.

There should be some Rocks on the 3 base (highground one). First of all zerg cant take super early 3 bases AND u deny stuff like i just said cause they cant run by your wall in a second

Edit: Just seen u added rocks, nice one

Edit2: Just played the Map. I think it was version 1.1. Somehow i have that feeling that everything is so extremely strechted out. I like the generel look of the map etc but i kinda think its too big in some areas. lets say i like that: U could have achieved the same with less. The area in the mainbase is amazingly huuuuge. Theres no way u can protect everything against drops. Doesnt matter if we talk about Overlord, Medivac or Warp prism drops... the area u have to cover is too big in my opinion.

Ragoo

Germany2773 Posts

February 07 2012 15:57 GMT

#28

On February 08 2012 00:33 ULuMuGuLu wrote:
The area in the mainbase is amazingly huuuuge. Theres no way u can protect everything against drops. Doesnt matter if we talk about Overlord, Medivac or Warp prism drops... the area u have to cover is too big in my opinion.

It's not. Tournament maps have something between 25 and 40 as main size, and under 30 is like Blizzard maps only. This map is 32 so pretty average.

cydial

United States750 Posts

February 07 2012 16:28 GMT

#29

On June 12 2011 05:35 Barrin wrote:
You can spawn close positions right?

Close position spawns are imbalanced (against Z) for basically the same reasons that metalopolis is (early-mid game close positions is practically identical to metalopolis close positions).

The biggest difference is how you can indeed expand away from your opponent (closer to the center). On some levels this balances it out. However, in this particular instance, the ideal place to position your army to defend that third closer to the center is drastically far away from the ideal place to position your army to defend your natural. Defending both against a good Terran would still be quite difficult.

One improvement I would make would be to make the lowest ground in the center of the map into highest ground instead. That way the zerg could position their army on that ground to defend the third quite soundly. However, the natural would still be quite out of the way to defend.

If you removed the two side paths between the two close position naturals on that third, made the third entrance to it that points to the middle wider (and maybe move it back into the base some), and made the natural wider to compensate, then it would be A LOT better IMO.

IMO It's really the better alternative to removing close position spawns or just plain redesigning the whole map (which would be ridiculous because of how much work you must have put in to decorating).

If he removed those ramps then getting a third would be stupid hard to get and secure.

As long as there aren't close spawns I say this map is perfect. It's simple and very well laid out. It sort of reminds me of fighting spirit, in a weird way.

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