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Wow. Very impressive, G_Wen!
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these images aren't scaling properly in the post for me 
But I really like the layout. Well done!
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loving the (hopefully) pathable highground at the natural.
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On November 27 2010 13:19 Steezysn0brdr wrote:
loving the (hopefully) pathable highground at the natural.
If by the pathable highground you mean this area:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BCXpM.jpg)
I hate to burst your bubble but it's not pathable. There were some tests run where the cliff was pathable and while it was a lot lot easier to deal with than on LT because roaches can hit everything up there it was incredibly difficult to go ling/baneling since you only had your queen to deal with it. I'll do some more testing with it and see how it turns out. Hopefully it'll get featured in an IMS so we can see some really high level players try to abuse it.
On November 27 2010 11:37 iGrok wrote:these images aren't scaling properly in the post for me But I really like the layout. Well done!
Gah the spoiler tags mess up the formatting. I'll replace the image with one that fits in the forum space and link it to a HQ image when I'm back home and can work on the map.
Thanks for all the support so far. If you like it try playing a few games on it! Hopefully the updated one will be up by Sunday night.
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I was actually hoping it was pathable too.
Forcing someone to get roaches because you've gotten to tier-2.5 units doesn't seem unfair to me. This ledge seems very balanced because it is so narrow. Perhaps make it un-buildable so no missile turrets can be made on it to thwart mutas?
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Well, you could always just use a spine crawler, which should be able to poke everything up there if you have an ovie hanging over it, if you're going ling/bling. A spine crawler's pretty standard to help against hellions anyway.
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On November 27 2010 14:44 iGrok wrote:
I was actually hoping it was pathable too.
Forcing someone to get roaches because you've gotten to tier-2.5 units doesn't seem unfair to me. This ledge seems very balanced because it is so narrow. Perhaps make it un-buildable so no missile turrets can be made on it to thwart mutas?
On November 27 2010 15:07 hayata2.0 wrote:
Well, you could always just use a spine crawler, which should be able to poke everything up there if you have an ovie hanging over it, if you're going ling/bling. A spine crawler's pretty standard to help against hellions anyway.
Well originally the map was designed without that cliff but after zerg players complained they had no safe spots to keep an overlord the cliff was added. I'll do some more testing and see how well it plays but i spent so much time making it look nice >.>
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This map has such a great mix of comfortable and insecure, and in a way that changes over time, it's really great. Agria Valley grown up into a beautiful butterfly. (Teasing.) :D
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You seem to have extended the camera bounds yet you did not extend the map bounds. This looks kind of weird when you scroll to the edges of the map and see the edge of the terrain and the water floating over the blackness.
+ Show Spoiler +
Also, you may want to make it so the center path is unbuildable. You used the terrain deformation tool there to lower the terrain, but if a player builds on deformed terrain, the game kind of tries to flatten it out. Just a visual thing though.
+ Show Spoiler +
As for strategic value, I'm not sure when the rocks will ever be broken. It seems like the only advantage would be creating another attack path to the opponent's third base, but since there is another ramp right next to it, I'm not sure if taking the time to take down those rocks is worth it. It feels like the space outside of the natural and third will become an easy rally point to defend the nat, third, and fourth easily.
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
Gonna wait for the aesthetic update till i judge.
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On November 27 2010 16:41 EatThePath wrote:
This map has such a great mix of comfortable and insecure, and in a way that changes over time, it's really great. Agria Valley grown up into a beautiful butterfly. (Teasing.) :D
Oh you, don't be such a tease...
On November 27 2010 22:44 BoomStevo wrote:You seem to have extended the camera bounds yet you did not extend the map bounds. This looks kind of weird when you scroll to the edges of the map and see the edge of the terrain and the water floating over the blackness. + Show Spoiler +
Going to pretend I was already going to do this in the aesthetic update.
On November 27 2010 22:44 BoomStevo wrote:Also, you may want to make it so the center path is unbuildable. You used the terrain deformation tool there to lower the terrain, but if a player builds on deformed terrain, the game kind of tries to flatten it out. Just a visual thing though. + Show Spoiler +
Fair point but I really do want the centre to be buildable. There however were no games that came up where the centre was blocked >.> I'll prob test this on sunday when I have access to my computer. I'll prob smooth out the terrain a bit as well.
On November 27 2010 22:44 BoomStevo wrote:
As for strategic value, I'm not sure when the rocks will ever be broken. It seems like the only advantage would be creating another attack path to the opponent's third base, but since there is another ramp right next to it, I'm not sure if taking the time to take down those rocks is worth it. It feels like the space outside of the natural and third will become an easy rally point to defend the nat, third, and fourth easily.
Well there are several reasons for the rocks being there:
Makes the third easier to hold.
Makes harrassment against the third harder.
Rewards holding the xel naga towers.
Allows more mobility between the third and fourth once the rocks are taken down.
When I was testing the map some protosses and terrans would take the gold as their third while zerg did not have this option. Terrans could use bunkers to hold off attacks and protoss has pylons to warp in reinforcements. Zerg however had to walk between the expansions and had a very short path to the opponents natural which did not work well for them. To make the third a little more appealing the rocks were added to deter harassment at the third. Hellions could take the very long way around and avoid the towers and sneak into the third. To make this a bit safer the rocks were added.
It also created an interesting tension between the third and gold since taking the gold meant your main was a bit safer from air harassment and colossi using that cliff into your main. The third however is easier to hold since you can rally your units in between the third and natural. In terms of economy the third and the gold will pretty much tie when both are fully saturated except Terrans can use the mules on the gold to gain a boost and the gold is a lot easier to saturate. The gold also runs out of minerals faster.
So in summary the rocks are there to make the third a more viable alternative to the gold expansion. In teseting someone mentioned that the gold and main are pretty close and a terran player could just lift off and take the gold but that hasn't happened yet.
Thanks for your feedback everyone, especially you Steve!
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This looks great. Wish this kind of stuff was on the ladder!!!!
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Thanks Medic, also no upgrade tonight, video card problems crash whenever an intense program is running (such as map editor or any modern video game). I'll do the update when I fix this problem, I have a spare 9400 but I don't want to use that just yet.
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Got video card to work, minor update published, today with a larger one coming tomorrow. Will update images once after "final" update is up.
Edit: picture of 90 is up.
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I'm diggin it man. I particularly like the placement of your Xel'Naga Towers. They don't appear to "belong" to either player--they're just in right spots to be contested equally from both sides. And I like the double-high cliffs along the center path.
I suggest you spam doodads here to prevent tanks parking there (can only hit from 1 angle by melee units):
+ Show Spoiler +
And a question. Is that platform just north of the bottom main pathable?
Edit: topdown view isn't uploaded properly. Perhaps use the Upload Image button and provide a link if you want full size.
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