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On August 09 2008 07:20 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2008 05:56 AttackZerg wrote:On August 09 2008 02:15 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
leta is a better player than backho
leta's ability to play starcraft exceeds that of backho
you think backho should be rewarded for getting trashed by good players over and over simply because he gets to play them? btw how does backho get to play them? I think he earns it ... no? nope. cheesing soft opponents doesn't get much credit on a rank based around playing well. backho is not a good player. even with everyone freaking out about the magical "results" he's getting, he can't win more than he loses.
He has been more consistent results wise then much/midis or iris.
Another another note your powerrank is about good play rather then results. Since you did point that out/I wasn't fully considering that in my backho arguement, I will relinqish my stance.
But he's results have placed him in the top10-15 players in the world in the last 2-3 months, as sad as that is.
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I don't agree with Frogg, while he arguably was best player of July, he won't be for long. As for 9-10, maybe, there aren't better players to put there anyway 
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uhh mr.steve u said flash seeded into ro16 for both leagues but he got knocked out of osl in ro8 i believe it was and i thought only the people in the ro4 get seeded into next ro16, correct me if im wrong
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Since Flash has already played in the ro36 in OSL we can probably assume that you're right...
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Flash is seeded into both Ro16's because he made semis for MSL and because he qualified out of OSL Ro32 (aka ODT with a new format/name).
Anyhow...
BackHo isn't terrible, in that he is a pro-gamer playing for the A-team of a strong pro-team.
BackHo isn't good, in that he is a mediocre player who has the good luck to catch big names with their pants down. Even when BackHo wins, he doesn't look all that great; his opponents just happen to look worse. Plus, Stork just 2-0'd BackHo out of the WCG, so much for "consistency."
For all his supposed results, BackHo hasn't gotten past a semi-final, like ever. People want to give him credit for making it there in the first place, okay. How many games has he won in those semi-finals? As I count it... one, on Troy (~67% P winrate over Z).
As for the Casy argument- Casy has an OSL title under his belt and even beat a Protoss player in his road to the final (though to be fair, Rainbow's PvT wasn't necessarily the best either). More importantly, Casy looked GOOD while he was winning his title. BackHo never looks good and he's never won a title. BackHo has never been a legitimate championship contender. More relevant to this discussion, at no point in July was BackHo look like or play like a legitimate championship contender. At no point in July did he even make a valuable contribution to his team's Proleague playoff chances (good job losing to Haran!)
fOrGG and July both won the titles to be won in July. Jaedong, Flash, Best, Luxury- these guys all had a legit shot at winning their respective leagues. Leta only played in PL during July, but he won every game he played, and secured his team a spot in the PL grand final.
As for Kal/Iris/Midas, given the small amount of games played in July, these aren't on the rank because they won a billion games; they're on the PR because their performance in July suggests that people should be on the lookout for these guys to do something in the upcoming season.
Nothing in BackHo's play in July suggests that we should watch for BackHo to make a splash or do anything with his OSL seed, or do anything particularly noteworthy other than maybe get to play yet another slumping big-name player and eek out a win with a DT rush.
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On August 09 2008 07:29 DeadVessel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2008 05:53 AttackZerg wrote:On August 09 2008 02:15 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Leta is a better player than BackHo
Leta's ability to play starcraft exceeds that of BackHo
you think BackHo should be rewarded for getting trashed by good players over and over simply because he gets to play them? BackHo made it to the semi-finals of 3 different starleagues .... in a row OSL,MSL,gOm intel classic.... umm Leta hasn't ..... I hate BackHo alot but he is accomplished alot more then Leta FOR SURE. BackHo is terrible, did you even watch his games vs July? His game on Hwasangbul was the dumbest game I've ever seen.
Well compare to Best's performance he at least stole a game from July :D
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United States10328 Posts
I'm not sure about ForGG at #1. Sure, he beat jaedong and flash (wow), but recently, his games have faltered a bit. Of course, I guess I'm speaking from a post-PR point of view, but I don't think ForGG will last at #1 for very long... but don't get me wrong, he is a great player. But #1... meh.
I actually haven't seen much of Leta because I don't follow proleague a lot.. but I checked him out on TLPD and... dang. Maybe #6 is a little high (I think Best is more proven in high-pressure situations), but yeah he should be on the PR. Winning THAT many games in a row... is amazing.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but Casy beat one mediocre protoss and two terrans on his way up from the OSL, with his semifinals and finals being against Zerg players. Backho beat Ganzi (in a less than impressive game, granted), Jaedong, and Casy on his way up in both GomTV and OSL (and as mentioned before, watching most of Backho's PvT games show that Backho actually has skill in that matchup). Casy beating IntoTheRainBOw, whether by cheese or no, doesn't say any more about Casy than Backho beating Jaedong says about Backho; Casy PvT is on par with sub-B class protosses.
And of course, in the last *season*, Backho's been 8-3 against Protoss, with his two losses to stork and one against Jangbi (WCG being a less prestigious tournament anyways, but that asides). Maybe Much severely dropped the ball when he attacked his own forge with 10+ dragoons, but the other players (Bisu Stork Jangbi etc.) didn't. Watching the games (with the exception of Backho vs Much) demonstrates that Backho won with skill, and not luck. That looks like consistency to me.
I don't by any means think Backho should be up there on the PR for this month, but his contention for being on the list should be given some more consideration than just a running joke, despite the fact that his PvZ is, well, a joke.
Edit: oops, I meant season wins. Sorry.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On August 10 2008 05:03 SerpentFlame wrote:
Maybe I'm wrong, but Casy beat one mediocre protoss and two terrans on his way up from the OSL, with his semifinals and finals being against Zerg players. Backho beat Ganzi (in a less than impressive game, granted), Jaedong, and Casy on his way up in both GomTV and OSL (and as mentioned before, watching most of Backho's PvT games show that Backho actually has skill in that matchup). Casy beating IntoTheRainBOw, whether by cheese or no, doesn't say any more about Casy than Backho beating Jaedong says about Backho; Casy PvT is on par with sub-B class protosses.
And of course, in the last month, Backho's been 8-3 against Protoss, with his two losses to stork and one against Jangbi (WCG being a less prestigious tournament anyways, but that asides). Maybe Much severely dropped the ball when he attacked his own forge with 10+ dragoons, but the other players (Bisu Stork Jangbi etc.) didn't. Watching the games (with the exception of Backho vs Much) demonstrates that Backho won with skill, and not luck. That looks like consistency to me.
I don't by any means think Backho should be up there on the PR for this month, but his contention for being on the list should be given some more consideration than just a running joke, despite the fact that his PvZ is, well, a joke.
backho has not played eleven PvPs in the last month
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Wait, I thought he played...
Jangbi - 3
Stork - 4
Bisu - 1
Much - 1
Chalrenge -1
Kal - 1 ( I heard someone mention Backho beating Kal earlier? not entirely sure this exists)
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good TL read is thanks
re:backho, its his haircut
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On August 10 2008 06:36 SerpentFlame wrote:
Wait, I thought he played...
Jangbi - 3
Stork - 4
Bisu - 1
Much - 1
Chalrenge -1
Kal - 1 ( I heard someone mention Backho beating Kal earlier? not entirely sure this exists)
Man that are Backho's all season games .. all his wins to be prеcise ...
He did not win many games last month except maybe vs Nada and Stork in the WCG and Intel classic , he is doing a good job qualifing for the leagues thought .Hmm i still think BackHO did a better job then Midas last month , but if i had to choose i would put Much at ten even if he doesn't have many games , or Mind for that matter .
Mind or Much will do 10 times better then Midas/BackHO in the upcoming leagues i would put money on that .
I don't mind seeing Midas #10 thought and Berserker is a good choice for # 9 .
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Why so few dominant protoss lately?
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On August 11 2008 13:46 hi19hi19 wrote:
Why so few dominant protoss lately?
Well Much is killing terrans and Best other tosses , but so far there is no toss to control the zerg dominance thats the terran's job .
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BISU COME BACK!! please we need you to dominate! ^^
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no stork? did you forget him?
+ Show Spoiler +
btw, much just owned forgg
and jaedong rapped flash ^^
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On August 12 2008 08:56 ilbh wrote:no stork? did you forget him? + Show Spoiler +
btw, much just owned forgg
and jaedong rapped flash ^^
Good thing you posted that, or FS would have never found out.
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On August 12 2008 08:56 ilbh wrote:no stork? did you forget him? + Show Spoiler +
btw, much just owned forgg
and jaedong rapped flash ^^
Forgg played 3 Bo3s in the same day, practicing for 2 match ups with diffrent maps, give him a break. He is still the best player out there and it will stay that way for a couple of months.
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On August 12 2008 18:26 samachking wrote:Forgg played 3 Bo3s in the same day, practicing for 2 match ups with diffrent maps, give him a break. He is still the best player out there and it will stay that way for a couple of months.
I don't think he is the best player he doesn't seem too dominant when i watch his games , he has good macro but he has weaknesses too . I mean he lost to Much and almost lost to Bisu on Blue storm given he had 3 Bo3 he performed well . I think his TvP style is a little diffrent then Flash's or Minds . I think that mind has the strongest TvP . But all props goes to Much who i think has the strongest PvT around with JangBI .ForGG doesn't seem to have the spark of a true #1 , but because other players are in slumps or are just playing worse only Jaedong comes near him . Seriously Jaedong is the only competidive player for a long time now . He drops a game or two (sets unlikely but still happens ) and he still comes back and owns the next big shot who is threatening his position . ForGG being his teammate obviously has an advantage compare to Flash or other strong players because he is familiar with his timings and styles more then other Pros and that is why he had the edge in that final . And that is why he will be # 1 if he doesn't start to suck which he will sooner or later .
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I hate to say it, but Flash doesn't look like Top5 status anymore. Then again, I didn't think he was top5 last month either so yeah...
<== not going to be a Frogg fan.
I vote that, because his ceremonies make him look like a naked asshole, that FBH is #8 on the next PR. Totally because he stripped down, because a lack of shame overshadows a relative lack of skill.
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EPT
