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On January 19 2009 19:52 Kwark wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 19:43 sk` wrote:
That's the best damn play by Savior I've ever seen. I find this hugely offensive. 3 hat ling rush is the best you've seen savior do? Jesus man. Watch the savior vs iris or savior vs nada or savior vs nal_ra. Anything!?!? God!
Yeah lol. How can you even compare this to Savior's Hive play in his prime lol. Bisu was sloppy and was rushed.
Back in the day, people were playing their very best epic games against Savior, and thats when he showed his geniality, killing everyone from disatvantageous positions using Hive units.
He had the sixth sense, was virtually uncheeseable and majority of his games was a lategame masterpiece.
That Savior is not back yet, as in this game he had advantage from start to end, and it seemed like he is just playing with Bisu when he gained advantage, as he did in his prime with low-tier oponents...
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I love the new coverage format!
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I loved the new format. Everyone is trying to be detailed with the analisis but at the same time they have so different styles and that is a big plus.
To the forced talk about the match of the week i got to say that savior made a great job. I think savior is back in the sense that he can play solid and mantain focus for a long game, he can predict his oponent and plan good moves beforehand. maybe the map made a difference but its clear to me that even with an early advantage two months ago the result of the same match would have been an epic comeback from bisu. I dont see savior dominating anyone or winning a starleague yet, but the mere fact that he fought for that early advantage is a symtom of recovery, i expect him to fight hard to recover his ZvT too.
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Good rap up of Upmagic vs by.hero, that's how I saw the game too. But what about Much's games?
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
D is so much better than the others.
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man by.hero is an idiot, why the hell would he pool after lord AND send 4 drones out to defend air. Yarnc pulled out a pretty sick 2 hatch muta to lurker to hydra rush build that completely threw upmagic off balance.
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banner D is for warcraft3 players seriously.
i voted B.
i'd like a mixture though, take some cool stuff (for example the hat) into B and maybe also abit glowing letters.. C and D is not enough starcraft for me.
nice writeup
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United States12607 Posts
Great writeup! Some pictures would be nice to accompany the strategy discussion....
And zulu's writeup read more like a battle report than a "strategy analysis" to me.
Love the new format, though! Keep up the good work, guys!
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Sweden585 Posts
Nice new approach, I like the way you emphazise the good games and just mention the worse games in the passing instead of writing battle reports for largely uninteresting games. This way is so much better, especially with the race-specific approach. Good work!
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-sigh-
oh bisu
oh bisu
TTwTT
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On January 20 2009 04:10 DreaM)XeRO wrote:
-sigh-
oh bisu
oh bisu
TTwTT
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great write up, I admit I am biased due to being a Zerg user/savior lover. But come on Kwark, you can't say savior played bad and just cheesed Bisu with the 3hatch ling. It was timing and scouting abuse on saviors part, he probably took everything into account like how he messed up the scouting, killed a zealot, and several other things in. Why shouldn't he have ling all-in'd it?
I just want you to remember one game too.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/8169_Bisu_vs_sAviOr/vod
This is the OSL game from around a year ago. sAviOr was up 1-0 in this series, this is the second game. + Show Spoiler +
This was what happened when Bisu was in a huge disadvantaged situation around a year ago.
He won.
+ Show Spoiler [game summary from memory] + Bisu does a standard FE on Katrina, which has the back expo. sAviOr expands and manages to drop kill Bisus expansion, leaving Bisu at one base having lost a nexus and everything he made at his back expo. sAviOr takes around 4 bases while trying to contain a bit. Bisu does some insane level of harassment and shames the best Zerg player in the world in his best match up and makes him look like a USEast pubbie.
The game ends with Bisu having 3base (iirc) sAviOr being knocked back down to 2, and a giant reaver/goon/zealot/archon/sair army coming down on savior about 18 minutes in after losing his natural expansion. It was the most depressing game I have ever watched. Worse than the FBH games.
I am not saying that sAviOr is the most amazing thing ever now, but I just want to say there was a point where Bisu would not have been stopped by the loss of 8 probes, a cannon, a goon, and 2 zealots. The Maestro played a very strong game there with his unit switches and his harassment, and he played it safe. He didn't all in and give Bisu the chance to come back, because that is what Bisu does. If you try to rush it he can turn every little thing against you and destroy your face like he did on Katrina.
If I remember, sAviOr attempted a hydra break after the initial drops which failed miserably.
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I love this new format  Awesome work :D
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On January 19 2009 16:27 Kwark wrote:
I'd like B with the glowing letters of A.
same here
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On January 20 2009 07:06 a-game wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2009 16:27 Kwark wrote:
I'd like B with the glowing letters of A. same here
thirded.
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United States43565 Posts
On January 20 2009 06:30 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:great write up, I admit I am biased due to being a Zerg user/savior lover. But come on Kwark, you can't say savior played bad and just cheesed Bisu with the 3hatch ling. It was timing and scouting abuse on saviors part, he probably took everything into account like how he messed up the scouting, killed a zealot, and several other things in. Why shouldn't he have ling all-in'd it? I just want you to remember one game too. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/8169_Bisu_vs_sAviOr/vodThis is the OSL game from around a year ago. sAviOr was up 1-0 in this series, this is the second game. + Show Spoiler +This was what happened when Bisu was in a huge disadvantaged situation around a year ago. He won. + Show Spoiler [game summary from memory] + Bisu does a standard FE on Katrina, which has the back expo. sAviOr expands and manages to drop kill Bisus expansion, leaving Bisu at one base having lost a nexus and everything he made at his back expo. sAviOr takes around 4 bases while trying to contain a bit. Bisu does some insane level of harassment and shames the best Zerg player in the world in his best match up and makes him look like a USEast pubbie.
The game ends with Bisu having 3base (iirc) sAviOr being knocked back down to 2, and a giant reaver/goon/zealot/archon/sair army coming down on savior about 18 minutes in after losing his natural expansion. It was the most depressing game I have ever watched. Worse than the FBH games. I am not saying that sAviOr is the most amazing thing ever now, but I just want to say there was a point where Bisu would not have been stopped by the loss of 8 probes, a cannon, a goon, and 2 zealots. The Maestro played a very strong game there with his unit switches and his harassment, and he played it safe. He didn't all in and give Bisu the chance to come back, because that is what Bisu does. If you try to rush it he can turn every little thing against you and destroy your face like he did on Katrina. If I remember, sAviOr attempted a hydra break after the initial drops which failed miserably.
I didn't say anything like that. I said the opposite. I said the scout probe died and sAviOr acted swiftly and decisively to win. It was nice. No where in anything I wrote did I say, or even suggest, that sAviOr played badly. I don't know where you're getting this but it's not from the words I used. In fact, your post is really confusing. You go on to list all the factors that I listed as being behind sAviOrs decision and then tell me that they justify sAviOrs play. Well done. You read my post. Good for you. I don't get how exactly you think reading my post, then telling yourself that's what you think, therefore what I think must be something other than what I wrote, therefore you need to inform me that actually what I wrote is what happened and not what..... I wrote? You're criticising the opposite of the post I made using all my arguments to agree with what I wrote in opposition to the post that I didn't make.
Also if Bisu won that game after the rush and I were CJ coach I'd B team him so fast. No player is that good. Watch the game again. Look at the citadel timing. Then tell me the game wasn't over. Seriously, Mondragon could win the game from that point. Chill probably could have for that matter. When a Protoss doesn't have jack shit for 10 minutes against a zerg player no amount of being Bisu changes the result. At 9:35 Bisu had 5 corsairs, 0 shuttles, 0 reavers, 2 zealots, 1 gateway, and no citadel. There is no other way to describe this but over. Outexpanded, outmacroed and with a smaller army there was nothing he could ever have done.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
Wow, the commentators were going absolutely nuts in the last 10 min or so. Such an entertaining game.
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United States43565 Posts
On January 20 2009 06:30 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
You can't say savior played bad and just cheesed Bisu with the 3hatch ling. It was timing and scouting abuse on saviors part, he probably took everything into account like how he messed up the scouting, killed a zealot, and several other things in. Why shouldn't he have ling all-in'd it?
KwarK:sAviOr knew that Bisu had seen him powerdroning. He knew that Bisu had wasted his first zealot. He knew that Bisu had just lost his scout probe. He knew that Bisu liked his tech units. The sudden switch to a speedling rush at 7:20 into the vod was an excellent play.
"You can't say sAviOr played bad."
"The switch to a speedling rush was an excellent play."
"He probably took everything into account..."
Like the factors I listed him taking into account in my post and then you copy?!?!
Sigh....
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BANNER DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Nice essays guys.
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On January 20 2009 08:13 Kwark wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2009 06:30 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
You can't say savior played bad and just cheesed Bisu with the 3hatch ling. It was timing and scouting abuse on saviors part, he probably took everything into account like how he messed up the scouting, killed a zealot, and several other things in. Why shouldn't he have ling all-in'd it? Show nested quote +KwarK:sAviOr knew that Bisu had seen him powerdroning. He knew that Bisu had wasted his first zealot. He knew that Bisu had just lost his scout probe. He knew that Bisu liked his tech units. The sudden switch to a speedling rush at 7:20 into the vod was an excellent play. "You can't say sAviOr played bad." "The switch to a speedling rush was an excellent play." "He probably took everything into account..." Like the factors I listed him taking into account in my post and then you copy?!?! Sigh....
lol yeah sorry I misread some of that, and I could of sworn I got the factors from Zulu's post :D
sAviOr didn't play this badly, but it was no masterpiece either. It was 3 hat speedling switch the moment the scout probe died. Entirely mundane and very effective if the protoss doesn't expect it. Bisu did very well to stay in the game but the damage was done and sAviOr never let him recover.
My post was mainly based on this quote which I misread, looking back on it, sorry kwark :D I read it as sAviOr played badly or something to that extent with making excuses for Bisu. I take it back :O
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EPT
