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[MSL] Down to Earth

Forum Index > News
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[MSL] Down to Earth

Text byflamewheel
Graphics bydisciple
December 23rd, 2010 05:45 GMT
[image loading]
Banner by disciple.

Table of Contents
[image loading]

Groups A, B and G Results
and Recap


Battle Reports

Shot Down
By ]343[, l10f and flamewheel

Another week, another news post, and another couple minutes spent trying to fill out this top bit of text. Honestly, I hate this part; it's what makes me delay starting these posts for so long. But I digress...

There should be plenty to talk about this week, what with Flash losing and everything. Seriously, has there been a season more filled with "what the " than the one we're currently seeing? As partly said by Harem, the unthinkable is becoming reality. Skyhigh loses more TvTs (1 for four this season?), Jaedong drops ZvZs, Jangbi is really, really slumping, ACE is dominating, and... Flash?

Flash.

Groups A, B and G Results and Recap

What a crazy week. While some of the results may be a bit shocking, at the very least the quality of the games has jumped a fewfold, making them markedly better than those played in the Survivor Tournament. With the "groups of death" still to come, hopefully we'll be seeing some very high-level Starcraft that progresses on into the later stages of this Starleague. Either way, let's take a quick look at what transpired for the first three groups of the Round of 32. Oh yes, and you can check the full results here in the R&S thread.

+ Show Spoiler +
Group A: (12/16 17:00 KST)
(T)Ssak 2-0 ► Advances to Round of 16
(T)Classic 2-1 ► Advances to Round of 16
(Z)MisO 1-2 Eliminated
(T)Flash 0-2 Eliminated

(T)Flash < Circuit Breaker > (T)Ssak
(T)Classic < Dante's Peak > (Z)MisO
(T)Ssak < Triathlon > (Z)MisO
(T)Flash < Triathlon > (T)Classic
(Z)MisO < Benzene > (T)Classic

Group B: (12/16 19:30 KST)
(Z)Jaedong 2-0 ► Advances to Round of 16
(P)Snow 2-1 ► Advances to Round of 16
(P)free 1-2 Eliminated
(P)Stats 0-2 Eliminated

(Z)Jaedong < Dante's Peak > (P)Stats
(P)Snow < Triathlon > (P)free
(Z)Jaedong < Benzene > (P)Snow
(P)Stats < Benzene > (P)free
(P)Snow < Circuit Breaker > (P)free

Group G: (12/18 17:00 KST)
(Z)ZerO 2-0 ► Advances to Round of 16
(Z)Action 2-1 ► Advances to Round of 16
(T)Sea 1-2 Eliminated
(Z)s2 0-2 Eliminated

(T)Sea < Triathlon > (Z)Action
(Z)s2 < Benzene > (Z)ZerO
(T)Sea < Circuit Breaker > (Z)ZerO
(Z)Action < Circuit Breaker > (Z)s2
(T)Sea < Dante's Peak > (Z)Action


Pretty weird, right? Obviously the topic of discussion for this week is Flash's elimination, but Sea's defeat should also turn a few heads. He normally makes it to the Round of 16! Anyway, since we here at the MSL writing team were pretty impressed with the games played in Groups A, B, and G, we have not one, not two, but five full-length battle reports for you to go over.

And this is a lot from us, since we're not Wax and KwarK.

Battle Reports
By ]343[, flamewheel and l10f

Group A Set 1: (T)Flash < Circuit Breaker > (T)Ssak
+ Show Spoiler +
By ]343[

In his interview following the KT-SKT Proleague match two days before, (T)God Young Ho himself issued a warning to the lowly SKT Terran rookie, (T)Ssak, who had rudely celebrated his victory over (P)Tempest with no fewer than 3 manner CC's.

On December 15 2010 17:29 Jaester88 wrote:
Q: Your MSL and OSL games are coming up shortly after. Anything to say regarding that?
A: I need to head off to play OSL immediately, but I was able to practice enough because of the Coaching staff's consideration. So I'm pretty confident about both today's OSL match and tomorrow's MSL match. On a related note, I think player Choi Ho Seon (Ssak) is showing a level of confidence slightly disproportionate to his achievements so far, so if he doesn't win against me tomorrow, he may end up seeing a command center in his base.

This was just going to be another "yawn rape," and hopefully we'd see some manner CC's from Flash.

The Ultimate Weapon spawns as the Orange Terran at 1 o'clock in his first televised game on Circuit Breaker (not counting (T)RuBy's "leave-the-game-before-it-starts" strategy), whereas the Unfortunate Victim spawns at 11 in Purple.

[image loading]

Pocari Sweat!

Flash places his first depot below the CC to simcity, while Ssak places his above his mineral line. Ssak starts his Barracks in the corner of his base to float, while simultaneously starting his refinery. Flash opens with his famous 14cc, showing no fear of taking this risk.

Flash's refinery starts after Ssak's factory, and the scouts both meet at 7--Flash knows his opponent's location, while Ssak still has another base to scout in between. Flash spots Ssak's expansion with his scout.

Flash begins his bunker in time to stop Ssak's first vulture, while has factory has already started. The vulture pokes in, only to be repelled by the finished bunker; Flash puts up another factory with addon and starts his armory and academy. Ssak also constructs a second factory.

Ssak opens with mines from his machine shop while laying down his 3rd, hoping to catch Flash's economic advantage. Ssak's floating barracks spots Flash laying down two more factories in comparison to his own 2 with 1 addon, though he is confident that he can defend his bases with mines.

Flash's scan is out already, however, and his goliath/tank force begins to push out as he adds a 5th fac. Flash's 4 goliaths and 3 tanks make their way across the map, reinforced by 4 vultures.

Ssak is already sieged at the ramp outside his 3rd with mines laid, and his armory, academy, and 3rd factory have been erected.

Flash attacks up the ramp and succeeds in taking out Ssak's entrenched position (along with his floating barracks), and raids Ssak's 3rd with vultures. Fortunately, Ssak's tanks are able to prevent Flash from advancing further.

[image loading]

[image loading]

Overrun!

Ssak does manage to snipe the SCV building Flash's 3rd, delaying it temporarily. A sneaky 4-vulture drop by Ssak helps him stay in the game as he kills a few SCVs and forces an evacuation, and he even saves half his vultures with his dropship. Unfortunately for Ssak, his simultaneous vulture attack on Flash's position is stopped cold.

[image loading]

[image loading]

Vultures: good against SCVs, bad against tanks.

Ssak's further dropship antics are denied by vultures, but he soon destroys the 3 tanks overlooking his 3rd and retakes the base. Meanwhile, Ssak has begun producing wraiths; Flash is going almost pure vulture/tank.

The cloaked wraiths soon arrive and begin picking off goliaths and tanks, forcing Flash's army back.
But a simultaneous tank push by Ssak is completely counterproductive as he loses all his tanks to well-placed mines.

[image loading]

[image loading]

Tanks: bad against wraiths and mines.

Despite the damage, the wraiths continue pew-pewing the undefended tanks. Flash begins building goliaths and wraiths of his own to counter Ssak's wraiths, and they are soon forced to back off.. Ssak executes a mildly successful vulture raid at Flash's 3rd.

Ssak begins his 3rd addon on 6 factories while the players trade tanks in the middle. Flash then questionably decides to double expand after taking his 4th, and both building SCVs are caught by marauding vultures.

[image loading]

Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to expand we go... oops.

But the wraiths come out of hiding, inducing Flash to produce some more wraiths of his own. Suddenly, Ssak's army seems much larger than Flash's--money that Ssak had used to build units Flash had spent expanding.

[image loading]

How do ya like my army?

Flash's wraiths and Ssak's wraiths both start shooting tanks, but when the wraiths engage each other, Flash comes out on top. A fresh valkyrie from Ssak, however, avenges his wraith brethren.

[image loading]

Sector locked i--KABOOM

Ssak, with the larger army and map control, is able to take out many SCVs in Flash's 3rd and 4th with vultures while the armies clash in the middle. Flash responds by hitting Ssak's 3rd, but Ssak destroys the attacking force without much trouble. He then pushes into Flash's 4th, demolishing the four defending tanks with ease.

[image loading]

More explosions for your viewing pleasure.

Flash again makes wraiths to deal with tanks, and they are only deterred by the arrival of goliaths. But Flash's isolated 3rd and 4th are undefendable, and Flash lifts his 4th while desperately pewpewing as many tanks as possible. He knows he's far behind, though, and GG's as soon as four cloaked wraiths from Ssak arrive.

[image loading]

Flash GG's in all caps.

This was quite an embarrassing game from Flash after his trashtalk, and coach Oov is especially happy to get this win.

[image loading]

Flash face, and gorilla face.

Group A Losers' Set: (T)Flash < Triathlon > (T)Classic
+ Show Spoiler +
By ]343[

(T)Flash and (T)Classic meet in the Loser's match of Group A on Triathlon, one of the more interesting maps in the pool. Flash, annoyed at his previous loss, spawns at 12 in purple, whereas Classic, clearly nervous, spawn in yellow at 8. Flash puts his initial depot beside his mineral line, while Classic prepares to wall his main ramp. Classic then builds his refinery before his barracks, aiming for a quick factory, while Flash 14CC's at his back natural.

Flash walls his ramp as well, denying Classic's scout, but Classic proceeds, undaunted, with his 2port build (this whole group seems to feature wraiths everywhere...). Flash adds a refinery at his natural, as Classic researches cloak.

The commentators become very excited when Flash begins two starports of his own, and his Academy goes up in time for scan before cloak. But Classic's wraiths are faster regardless, and he forces Flash to empty his natural.

[image loading]

Wraith, reportin' in.

Flash quickly gets his own wraiths and an engineering bay, but his turrets can't get up in time to prevent more significant damage to his mineral line. Finally, Flash's wraith cloak finishes, and he's able to kick Classic out of his main. But Classic continues harassing the natural for a bit while expanding himself.

Classic finally withdraws to repair his wraiths, while Flash continues building up his own wraith fleet. A brief skirmish occurs near Flash's natural, but Flash finally manages to repel the marauding wraiths.

Classic adds his second factory, but Flash does some harassment of his own, scouting Classic's base and sniping a tank. Both players construct their armories, and Classic adds a 3rd command center; Flash snipes the building SCV with his wraiths. The starports continue to flash for both players, and both players secure positions with their small ground armies.

Disaster strikes for Flash as his wraiths are caught off-guard, and their numbers are decimated by Classic's wraiths and a newly built valkyrie.

[image loading]

Looks awfully familiar...

Flash still has the defensive advantage with sieged tanks covered by goliaths and turrets, so Classic therefore opts for a drop. Flash incredibly scans the dropship, and takes action to stop it. He sends two wraiths to snipe the dropship, but they're met by Classic's wraith fleet. Amazingly, one wraith barely makes it, only to... not fire? Instead, Flash's goliaths ambush the dropship, which just barely escapes its doom. Flash is now ready for the drop, though, with a small mobile tank/goliath force and a heavily turreted back natural.

[image loading]

You got away this time!

The dropship somehow manages to unload 2 goliaths before exploding, thanks to wraith cover. They're are easily cleaned up, but Classic then moves out with his real army to attack the north end Flash's tank line. Classic is forced to retreat at the arrival of the other half of Flash's roaming tanks.

[image loading]

Oops.

Classic is now on 5 factories with 2 addons and takes a 4th, while Flash's 3 bases are supporting 4 factories with 2 addons. Classic next attacks the south end of Flash's tank line, and manages to advance his position a little while expanding yet again to the inner 9 base.

Three dropships for Classic now drop in Flash's main, but Flash responds quickly with his own dropships... but he seems to have forgotten about a single goliath and tank that survived the drop, and they proceed to deal more damage to Flash's economy; the two combine to score 16 kills before SCVs finally finish them off.

[image loading]

Dangit, doing the dirty work wasn't in our job description...

Classic follows up by pushing throw the south end of Flash's tank line, angling to hit Flash's newly erected 4th at 2 o'clock. Flash's dropships, having just unloaded to deny a 6th (!) for Classic, quickly ferry the troops back to defend.

Classic now has 6 factories with 3 addons to Flash's 4, in addition to map control. He flanks Flash's central tank line from both sides with his huge army of tank/goliath and smashes it.

[image loading]

Tank flank!

Flash's inner 5th at 12 is forced to lift, but a drop by Flash forces Classic's 5th to lift as well. Classic begins construction of yet another command center.

Classic next drops the 4th of Flash, but quick reaction allows Flash to escape with medium losses. They're now even in bases, but Classic's economic advantage shows: he is ready to expand again while having 3 more factories and quite a few more dropships than Flash. Both players have 2/0 upgrades.

[image loading]

More dirty work.

Classic retakes 6 and floats to 10 while Flash expands to 3:30, and Flash adds his 5th factory. A huge drop and counterdrop at Flash's new expansion ends up with Classic decidedly on top, and the command center is forced to lift.

[image loading]

Come on, I just want this base...

Flash moves to take back the center and his 5th with drops, while Classic's huge army moves out and sets up a parallel tank line. Classic then inexplicably flies a bunch of dropships over Flash's tanks/goliaths, taking a lot of hits for nothing.

Classic then makes up for his previous blunder by catching some of Flash's dropships with goliaths out of his own, though his base at 6 is amusingly full of SCVs yet not mining.

[image loading]

Hint: An expansion with SCVs doesn't do anything unless the SCVs are mining.


Both players maneuver with dropships, and Flash tries to drop Classic's base at 2 with depressing results.

[image loading]

If at first you don't succeed...

Classic expands yet again to 3:30, and forces Flash's inner base at 12 to lift; it moves to a position where it can still mine gas. Flash is firmly behind, but if anyone can come back, it's Lee Young Ho...

Flash tries to float a command center south to the back natural at 3:30, but turrets and Classic's dropships deter him. Flash finally equalizes in dropship numbers and successfully drops Classic's mining-gas-only base at 10 and prepares to take it.

[image loading]

... try, try again.

A successful drop at 3:30 by Flash is counter-dropped, and Flash loses the CC he planned to expand with after it escapes from the clutches of (of all things) a turret. Flash mutters angrily in response.

[image loading]

Can I please have this base?

Flash contents himself with the base at 10, dropping a large number of tanks and goliaths there to secure the area. Classic has taken the inner base at 4 and maynards there. Flash only adds his 6th factory at 27 minutes (!!).

Flash has to take the expansion at 3:30 by force, but he is behind in dropship numbers, and the area is heavily defended by turrets and tanks. Flash catches Classic's dropships going the wrong way and strikes, but the units the survive the drop are just not enough to hold the counterdrop.

[image loading]

Can I PLEASE have this base?

Classic builds three starports at 5. Flash's base at 3 is mined out, and he desperately drops 3:30 again... but there are far too many units for Classic, and he stops the attempt easily.

[image loading]

Pretty please?

Flash gathers his remaining forces and attempts to take the base again, but gg's out (not in caps!) as soon as he sees how many tanks Classic has there.

[image loading]

Sigh, I give up.

[image loading]

I can't believe he was so selfish... I mean, it's almost Christmas!

Flash's 2port wraith after expansion was quite a bit slower than Classic's, and Classic was able to at least equalize economically after the opening. But when Flash lost all his wraiths, he lost map control, and Classic could expand with impunity while harassing Flash and putting him further behind.

While it pains me as a Flash fan to see him exit the MSL in such fashion, the adage still rings true: "What goes up, must come down." Hopefully Flash will pick himself back up after these losses. Luckily for Flash fans, one thing holds true: Flash's mental state is among one of the strongest in the game, so we know he'll be back.

Group B Set 2: (P)Snow < Triathlon > (P)free
+ Show Spoiler +
By flamewheel

Triathlon really brings about the best games in the MSL. I don't know if it's the arbiters, the eggs, or the fact that the name "Triathlon" is pretty cool, but generally the games played on the map have a higher level of wacky to them. In my opinion, you can take a hundred high-level standard games and write Battle Reports on them, but eventually they'll become repetitive. However, take the games where things aren't quite so normal...

Either way, I think this match deserves a writeup. While it doesn't feature any revolutionary builds or [too] fantastic micro, it still has some tense, some odd, and some tense and odd situations.

If you haven't figured it out already, the map is Triathlon. The combatants are Snow, colored orange at 4, and Free, colored yellow at 8. In this second set of Group B, the two are squaring off to see who gets to advance to the Winners' match to face off against Jaedong. What fun.

There's really nothing too special about this game till later on. Both players take their foward expansion at around the same time (though Free's is a bit faster). Free goes 1gate core, trying to play a tech game. However, a lucky probe scout gets in and Free notices Snow's 3gate, prompting him to throw down more gateways. Snow goes for Reavers first while Free, seeking vision, opts for Observers.

At 8 minutes and 15 seconds in the game, the first battle occurs! Snow attacks with a shuttle/reaver and goons while Free has zealots and goons to defend.

[image loading]

Goon + Zealot < Reaver + Goon.

...You'd think that, right? However, with some nice micro Free is able to pick off the shuttle and reaver, and is able to force the battle to a draw. Snow decides not to press the attack with his reinforcements, and instead starts his third at his protected back expansion. Instead of following suit and expoing to the third, Free decides to take the offensive, perhaps hoping to end the game then and there. Since he didn't fight with Reavers in the first engagement, his Reaver/Shuttle-supported army should be stronger than Snow's, and thus Free should easily overpower him... Right?

[image loading]

Shuttle + Reavers + Goon > Reavers + Goon?

Well, yes in theory... However Free decides to be silly. After dropping his reavers in front of his goon army, he loses his shuttle, and Snow's reavers make short work of their antagonistic counterparts.

[image loading]

Boom!

Losing those Reavers was big. Since Snow didn't have a Shuttle, Free should have just killed off Snow's defenseless Reavers with his own, then used his remaining forces to take out Snow's natural. After that it would have been a short road to victory. We know how important Reavers are though, and without them Free's army is held off. He keeps his forces outside of Snow's natural in a semi-contain though, and starts his third.

Now here's where things start to get interesting.

Snow, having spotted the third and knowing that Free's forces are being rallied to the battlefield, decides the time for harassment is now.

[image loading]

Taking a reaver and two zealots, Snow heads for the third...

[image loading]

Just as Free decides to attack again.

Without his shuttle and second reaver, Snow is unable to defend his base. Retreating up the ramp and into the main, he has no choice but to let Free take out his natural.

[image loading]

Generally, this position signifies the game ending shortly.

Luckily for Snow, Triathlon's back expansion means that in scenarios like this, it's not 2base vs 1base, but 3base vs 2base. And while Free's been busy attacking, Snow's been busy clearing out probes from all of Free's bases.

[image loading]

[image loading]

Remember that 80-something kill Reaver Snow had in that playoffs game?

Free decides to try to end the game then and there, and tries pushing into Snow's main. However, instead of running up the ramp with his units he decides to just attack uphill, allowing Snow to defend with Reaver + storm. It isn't until after wasting a large majority of his army does Free back off. Snow retakes his natural, and Free starts remaking probes, and both players macro for a while, dancing armies back and forth across the middle of the map.

Again, Snow shows to be the player with better adaptability. Instead of just purely trying to play the eco game, he decides to go for more harassment. This time, the pain is brought by zealots and... dark templar.

[image loading]

"pvp is so funny

they just sit there hurling imbalanced shit at each other"

314 ESPORTS DOLLARS to whomever can tell me who this quote came from.

Anyway, after trading armies and again losing a good number of probes (as well as the nexus at the third), Free types out after losing the next battle.

Overall, a very well-played game by Snow. Though he put himself at an initial disadvantage by trading a superior army for Free's inferior one, his excellent defense and sniping made it possible for him to dig back into the game with Protoss imba harassment. Interestingly enough, for a PvP of this length I found it weird that not a single storm drop was attempted by either player, though it was refreshing watching DTs slice up probes at 20 minutes into the game.

Group G Set 1: (T)Sea < Triathlon > (Z)Action
+ Show Spoiler +
By l10f

Action starts at 12 o'clock as the Red Zerg and Sea starts at 9 o'clock as the Blue Terran. Action starts by sending an overlord to the center to check for any proxies as Sea hasn't been doing well against Zerg players lately. Action continues to take his natural before his pool, and sees that Sea is doing a 14CC build with his drone. Action responds by taking his back expansion before making his pool.

[image loading]
It's 3 minutes into the game and spawning pool is just starting.

Action continues to play economically by keep making more drones before his spawning pool, and sea builds a quick gas after sealing off his entrance. Sea is unable to scout Action, and starts building a factory. Action's spawning pool finally finishes, and Action starts to get his lair. Action sees that Sea has stopped marine production, and builds a sunken colony in his natural to stop the vulture.

Sea builds two starports as soon as his factory finishes, and Action starts his spire. The first two wraiths kill a few drones and overlords, but after seeing the spire, Sea retreats with his wraiths. Action takes a 4th expansion while massing up a large force of mutalisks. Sea tries to harass with wraiths, but the overlord speed finishes and cloaked wraiths are forced to retreat. Action makes even more mutalisks and Sea is forced to build a lot of turrets to defend.

[image loading]
Mutas with detection > Wraiths.

[image loading]
SURPRISE!!!

Action decides to not use his mutalisks actively, and techs up to hive. Sea now has a sizeable bionic army and valkyries to counter the mutalisks. Sea hides his valkyries and defends against the mutalisks with only marines until he builds up a large enough force to push out as hive finishes. When Action tries to kill some marines, Sea shows his valkyries, dealing a large amount of damage to all of the mutalisks. Action builds a lot of sunken colonies to defend, but with all of his mutalisks almost dead, Sea's marines kill Action's natural and forces Action to GG.

Group G Winners' Set: (T)Sea < Circuit Breaker > (Z)ZerO
+ Show Spoiler +
By l10f

Zero starts at 5 o'clock as the Blue ZErg and Sea starts at 7 o'clock as the Purple Terran on Circuit Breaker. Sea opens standard with a 1 barracks expansion, but Zero starts by putting down a spawning pool after his overlord. Zero takes his natural after making a few Zerglings. Sea misses these Zerglings on the way and loses a few marines and SCV's.

[image loading]
This sight seems to be common in Sea's games lately...

Zero gets a third hatchery and techs up to lair while sea gets his academy. Zero decides to make a lot of zerglings and attack Sea's natural right before medics come out. Sea reacts a little bit slowly, and loses a lot of marines. Zero's spire finishes, and Sea moves out with a few marines, medics, and firebats to force a sunken colony and a few zerglings, trying to make up for the blunder.

[image loading]
Sea needs to learn from his mistakes.

Sea is forced to put down a third barracks and a lot of turrets to defend against the mutalisks. Sea manages to stall Zero's 3rd with a firebat, but Zero's mutalisks kill a lot of marines and SCV's. Zero doesn't commit to a killing blow with his mutalisks, but continues to deal minor damage while taking his 3rd and teching to lurkers. Zero's lurkers are able to contain Sea, and Sea is forced to wait until he gets his vessel to attack.

Sea moves out with 3 tanks and a vessel, supported by a large bionic force. Zero fights at the center and loses a lot of lurkers, although he kills the vessel. Sea takes a 3rd expansion while pushing forward, but dark swarm keeps Sea at bay. Zero attacks Sea's 3rd with a small army of lurkers and a defiler, and Sea is forced to lift.

[image loading]
10hp Lurker + Swarm > Marine + Medic + Tank army.

Sea knows he needs to do something and sieges up in front of Zero's natural. Zero continues to stall with swarm, and Sea is still unable to land his command center. Zero is able to secure a 4th gas in the meantime, and by the time Sea is able to take his 3rd again, Zero has a big enough army to take the center.

[image loading]
When you see this, you know Zero is playing.

After taking control of the cetner, Zero makes a queen and infests Sea's command center at his 3rd expansion. Sea takes another expansion at 9 o'clock and attempts to attack Zero again, but Zero defends with swarms and once his ultralisks are out, Sea is forced to GG.



These updates for the Round of 32 aren't going to be long. Luckily, the level of play was pretty high, so we had some good games to recap. However, before you leave to do whatever it is you guys do during the day/night take a moment to read this. Yes, it concerns Flash's losses, and it's probably going to generate a good majority of the comments. Please note that since this is an inclusive news post, some OSL spoilers might be posted. Read at your risk.

Shot Down
By flamewheel

See, there were two titles to choose for this week's article--the main title and the title for this sub-article. I toyed with a few others before choosing the two that I did, since I wanted to capture the right feel for this news post. Other worthy contenders included included the likes of the sensationalist "Flash in the Pan", the metaphorically blasé "Falling Star", and the playing-on-Engrish-and-bad-puns "Crashing [Frashing] Down". While all those titles sounded nice to me at the time of their inceptions, I [obviously] did not feel comfortable in using them. There is a fundamental difference between the two titles chosen and those that are listed above. Can you see why?

Take note: what comes next is a short opinion piece, backed up by some statistics. Perhaps these statistics aren't all-inclusive, but that's what makes opinion opinion, right? If you do decide to flame me, be warned that depending on your stance, you will be targeted by logical people, illogical people, fans, anti-fans, fanboys, and anti-fanboys. In short, what I'm trying to say is flame away.

I am not a sensationalist. While in times of frivolity (read: Live Report threads) I may yell random things like "SLUUMMMPPP", but when it comes down to it I prefer logic over impulse. Going on impulse, Flash losing to two "random" players and dropping out of the MSL is a sign of something deeper than just two singularly bad occurrences. In the same vein, Flash facing elimination in the OSL due to losses to Kal and Hyuk shows that, well...

On 1881, Friedrich Nietzsche wrote:
God is dead.

Lo and behold though, is this the case? After watching those four games and the Proleague game against Really, I did start to wonder whether or not Flash was facing some sort of downturn. Perhaps, as is so often in the Greek myths of old, this was a case of hubris?

Lately, I've been trying to parameterize the world in terms of plausibilities and implausibilities, so I decided to use statistics to look at this phenomenon, taking a trek to the Teamliquid Database and going straight to Flash's page. The first thing I saw? 70.54%. However, as all rigorous mathematicians know the overall picture is not always the best one. Therefore, I decided to take a trip back in time.

Basically everybody knows Flash suffered a "slump" through 2008 and into 2009. As a handy point of reference, I took the date of Flash's first EVER 2009 game (against HoGiL) as my starting point. The numbers? 150 to 47. I went back three more games, and that became 153-47, or 76.5%.

Oh, his last ten games? 5-5, with four losses in individual leagues and a loss to Light in Proleague, breaking a 12-game Proleague win streak. While 5-5 is average for the progaming world, it's definitely far below Flash's 70%, or expected 7-3. But how far below? Using my primitive knowledge of Statistics, I went back in those 200 games, ten at a time.

Now, with a mean of 7.75 and a standard deviation of around 1.48, Flash is still (barely) within the 95% range. While this doesn't really say anything in Starcraft, it still tells me enough that this isn't too weird, right?

Just...

Well... Flash is facing elimination in both leagues, having been knocked out of one with the other a very likely option. Losing a random Proleague game is far more trivial than losing an OSL/MSL game, not to even consider being knocked out of an individual league. Even if Paralyze beats Kal (that would be a feat in itself) and Flash manages to win the tiebreaker, that would still be... odd. It really all boils down to this though: Flash is out, and after a full year of winning pretty much everything, it seems that he's finally slowed down a bit.

Alright, I didn't want this to become very long-winded. Having read this far, you're probably saying at this point "flamewheel has said nothing that I didn't already know." So let's get down to the nitty-gritty. In losing these four games in an individual league, Flash has lost a match (or two, in one case) in every matchup. It's not as if he lost all four games in TvT, where one would then be saying "well, Flash seems to be having problems with TvT / his opponents have figured him out and have responded appropriately"; this either says that Flash has gotten worse or his opponents, in general, are catching up. And really, besides his questionable play against Hyuk (where I really don't doubt Flash for wanting to be safe, at least) it's not as if Flash played terribly in his other games. Kal straight up outplayed him in terms of both preparation and execution. You might say the game against Classic was a build order loss, but in TvT it's much easier to come back from a build order loss than in the other mirrors, especially when one has Flash's mechanics. In the game against Ssak, Flash pretty much had it won--but decided to gloat a bit too early, allowing Ssak to recognize and pull the comeback needed to win. In essence, I can't fully attribute Flash's loss to his own failures, but in the same sense, I can't say that his opponents beat Flash. It was a mixture of both: in a way, I guess you could say that Flash assists others in beating himself. A sort of... Hyuking? Of course, not as extreme, but you still get the point.

Face it anti-fans/anti-fanboys, anti-Flash builds exist and sometimes Flash just gets outplayed. And in the same sense, fans and fanboys have to acknowledge that sometimes Flash doesn't play perfectly. While these last couple games have been anomalous, they are still probably the product of a combination of the two factors. After all, if you know you're going to play Flash, what are you going to do? You bet you're going to try as hard as possible, since you have more play time and more games (since Flash plays more than you do) to work with. And with your coaching staff and your team behind you, you've got the build, you've got the hope. You just have to make sure Flash messes up. And Flash isn't truly a god, for he still messes up. 60% is considered pretty A-class, but that means you're still losing 4 out of 10 games. 70%, 3 games out of 10. So?

Look, on the subject of matchups again: do you remember when Jaedong hit his peak in ZvZ, then in ZvP? He was able to do so because he found something that others did not, allowing him to pretty much "break" the game for a short period of time. And while Jaedong is still ridiculously scary in both matchups, others have started to show they can catch up. It's only a matter of time. While Flash relies more on his mechanics and sense (which cannot be altered by an opponent) than Jaedong does, he still has to start somewhere at the beginning of each game. We've all seen and discussed the games where Flash comes back from a massive early-game disadvantage. In those games, Flash knew that if he just held on, he would be able to use the massive difference in mechanical skill to eventually come back. Well, the same still happens now, and it happened in these games. The opponents, through build tailoring and execution, got off to a good start. Flash hung on, and tried to get back in... But it wasn't enough. Somewhere down the line, everybody else starts catching up. I suppose the phrase that ]343[ used ("what goes up, must come down") isn't totally true in this case: perhaps it's not Flash going down. Perhaps others have started coming up.

Ah, being on break these past few days have granted me the liberty of watching some old games. I started with the classics, the finals, then went onto the ELO-peaking games for each player. Incidentally, watching Jangbi's game made me sad. Anyway, after watching Boxer's and YellOw's games from back then one can really realize the massive skill increase (on average) between then and now. This much is obvious, and can be extrapolated into saying that the rookies and new players of today are better than their counterparts of yesteryear. While Flash has been able to ride this wave of improvement far longer and far... farther... than everybody else, there comes a time where you simply must slow down.

So, in conclusion, everything I've written can be summarized into one sentence. I think Flash is still bonjwa. Can you disagree with me? Of course, I might be wrong--the coming days, weeks, and months will prove or disprove me. Though I never agreed with the term "god", I would say that Flash, through a combination of arrogance and competition, has been knocked off the highest pedestal.

Hah, for those of you who read this poorly organized ramble, thanks. While I don't hope to completely dictate your train of thought regarding this situation, it's something else to think about, right?


This exciting and confusing MSL update brought to you by the MSL team of ]343[, l10f, and flamewheel. Graphics are by disciple, and if you're wondering about the banner he'll have a new one up for the Round of 16. Thanks for reading!

Harem, zerglings don't need money.

612 ESPORTS BUCKS to whomever finds the hidden message first.
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Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
l10f *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3241 Posts
December 23 2010 05:47 GMT
#2
GO JAEDONG GO!
Writer
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
December 23 2010 05:48 GMT
#3
GO JAEDONG GO!
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 05:48:48
December 23 2010 05:48 GMT
#4
only 612 ESPORTS BUCKS?

oh

GO JAEDONG GO (!!?!?)
Writer
chaos22
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada23 Posts
December 23 2010 05:48 GMT
#5
^
EtnDMaestro|bZgMaestro|ThyMaestro
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9756 Posts
December 23 2010 05:49 GMT
#6
NO JAEDONG NO!

GO BEESUIT GO!
boomer hands
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
December 23 2010 05:50 GMT
#7
On December 23 2010 14:49 seRapH wrote:
NO JAEDONG NO!

GO BEESUIT GO!


bee-WHO? lol

i expect shine to do his duty :D
Writer
fly.stat
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States449 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 05:59:19
December 23 2010 05:57 GMT
#8
First letters of the Shot Down's paragraphs spell:

Still Bonwja (sic) Flash.

Where's my e-sports dollars?
Until I write you again, take care of your precious person.
ejac
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1195 Posts
December 23 2010 05:59 GMT
#9
GO JAEDONG GO!
esq>n
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
December 23 2010 06:04 GMT
#10
On December 23 2010 14:57 fly.stat wrote:
First letters of the Shot Down's paragraphs spell:

Still Bonwja (sic) Flash.

Where's my e-sports dollars?


ESPORTS DOLLARS FOR YOU LOL we didn't even notice the um, typo

um, what typo?

there's no typo ;P

with doublethink you can solve everything!
Writer
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
December 23 2010 06:05 GMT
#11
lol I FAIL at spelling so harddddd.
fly.stat check your account tomorrow you will get your ESPORTS BUCKS
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 06:09:24
December 23 2010 06:06 GMT
#12
Mmm idra quote.
That's a pretty funny quote but I'd attribute that more to TvT than PvP.
GO BEESUIT GO!
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9756 Posts
December 23 2010 06:07 GMT
#13
Out of everything in this entire newspost I am most impressed by correct usage of "whomever".
boomer hands
fly.stat
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States449 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 06:21:01
December 23 2010 06:09 GMT
#14
On December 23 2010 15:05 flamewheel wrote:
lol I FAIL at spelling so harddddd.
fly.stat check your account tomorrow you will get your ESPORTS BUCKS


Can you just make it an ESPORTS GIFTCARD?

My friend needs something other than Super Meat Boy for Christmas. ^-^

edit: Speaking of which, I really enjoyed the write up on Flash's MSL defeat because I haven't been able to watch any vods recently. (MUST...GET...BANDAGES...) I thought it was better than the usual write ups (if any of them can be called usual), maybe because it's about Flash losing...eh.

Anyway, great work!

edit 2: I did not mean to imply that I don't like Flash. <3 Young Ho
Until I write you again, take care of your precious person.
shucklesors
Profile Joined May 2010
Singapore1176 Posts
December 23 2010 06:16 GMT
#15
GO JAEDONG GO!
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
December 23 2010 06:18 GMT
#16
On December 23 2010 15:06 Lightwip wrote:
Mmm idra quote.
That's a pretty funny quote but I'd attribute that more to TvT than PvP.
GO BEESUIT GO!


wait what? at least you can see tanks, and vultures don't drop on your head!?
Writer
Black[CAT]
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Malaysia2589 Posts
December 23 2010 06:21 GMT
#17
Really nice writeup! Thanks a lot! It hurts to see Flash losing to nobody's but then, even the bonjwa himself has his 30% days.
You mean ESPORTS isnt a synonym for SC2? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -Proud owner of a Filco Majestouch 2 with Cherry Blue Switches- BW or SC2? Why not both?
Kanil
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1713 Posts
December 23 2010 06:24 GMT
#18
GO JAEDONG GO!

(I love this thread!)
I used to have an Oz icon over here ---->
NicksonReyes
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Philippines4431 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 06:34:40
December 23 2010 06:24 GMT
#19
In the earlier moments of the osl games, they show twitter shouts below. I just noticed that in the game of bonjwa vs hyuk, the Flash one says "Paralyze Fighting".
Edit: Jung Kyung Doo Fighting!
"Start yo" -FlaSh
OpticalShot
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada6330 Posts
December 23 2010 06:25 GMT
#20
Oh wow I didn't even notice the secret message until I saw fly.stat's answer. Cool.
Thanks for the read.
[TLMS] REBOOT
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
December 23 2010 06:27 GMT
#21
I can't believe Flash is out :O...

... good thing I'm a Jaedong/Stork fan lolololol

:p
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
SushilS
Profile Joined November 2010
2115 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 07:10:57
December 23 2010 06:29 GMT
#22
Really nice Battle-reports. Read them fully inspite of watching stream(which is something I dont do usually!)

Sorry Flash is NOT yet a Bonjwa, end of story. Dominating a year of Terran-favored maps(last year) is good but being Bonjwa means you transcend "maps" as a factor in your winning. To become the 5th Bonjwa(after Savior) he has to prove himself on unfavored maps too, like this years which seems quite Zerg favored so far....
As I have had occasion to say in the past:
A year of dominance does NOT a bonjwa make.
iceiceice: I’m going to make this short; I am the one true tinker player.
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 06:34:09
December 23 2010 06:30 GMT
#23
On December 23 2010 14:57 fly.stat wrote:
First letters of the Shot Down's paragraphs spell:

Still Bonwja (sic) Flash.

Where's my e-sports dollars?

aww, beat me to it
edit: also, i think bonjwa is spelled right

Nice writeup!
Translator:3
ii.blitzkrieg
Profile Joined November 2006
Canada1122 Posts
December 23 2010 06:35 GMT
#24
Thanks for the write up.

On December 23 2010 15:29 SushilS wrote:
Sorry Flash is NOT yet a Bonjwa, end of story. Dominating a year of Terran-favored maps(last year) is good but being Bonjwa means you transcend "maps" as a factor in your winning. To become the 5th Bonjwa(after Savior) he has to prove himself on unfavored maps too, like this years which seems quite Zerg favored so far....
As I have had occasion to say in the past:
A year of dominance does NOT a bonjwa make.


I don't even know what to say...
iloveoov / Flash / Fantasy / Midas / Boxer -BW forever
Gnaix
Profile Joined February 2009
United States438 Posts
December 23 2010 06:36 GMT
#25
GO SHINE GO!!!
one thing that sc2 has over bw is the fact that I can actually manage my hotkeys
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
December 23 2010 06:37 GMT
#26
On December 23 2010 15:29 SushilS wrote:
Sorry Flash is NOT yet a Bonjwa, end of story. Dominating a year of Terran-favored maps(last year) is good but being Bonjwa means you transcend "maps" as a factor in your winning. To become the 5th Bonjwa(after Savior) he has to prove himself on unfavored maps too, like this years which seems quite Zerg favored so far....
As I have had occasion to say in the past:
A year of dominance does NOT a bonjwa make.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=152244
BaronFel
Profile Joined July 2009
United States155 Posts
December 23 2010 06:37 GMT
#27
STILL BONWJA FLASH (You misspeled bonjwa )
l10f *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3241 Posts
December 23 2010 06:40 GMT
#28
On December 23 2010 15:37 BaronFel wrote:
STILL BONWJA FLASH (You misspeled bonjwa )


misspelled purposely obviously. implying Flash is not bonjwa
Writer
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
December 23 2010 06:42 GMT
#29
On December 23 2010 15:37 BaronFel wrote:
STILL BONWJA FLASH (You misspeled bonjwa )

On December 23 2010 14:45 flamewheel wrote:
Now, with a mean of 7.75 and a standard deviation of around 1.48, Flash is still (barely) within the 95% range. While this doesn't really say anything in Starcraft, it still tells me enough that this isn't too weird, right?

Just...

Well... Flash is facing elimination in both leagues, having been knocked out of one with the other a very likely option. Losing a random Proleague game is far more trivial than losing an OSL/MSL game, not to even consider being knocked out of an individual league. Even if Paralyze beats Kal (that would be a feat in itself) and Flash manages to win the tiebreaker, that would still be... odd. It really all boils down to this though: Flash is out, and after a full year of winning pretty much everything, it seems that he's finally slowed down a bit.

Alright, I didn't want this to become very long-winded.


I fail to see how it's spelled wrong
Translator:3
DminusTerran
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1337 Posts
December 23 2010 06:43 GMT
#30
On December 23 2010 15:29 SushilS wrote:
Sorry Flash is NOT yet a Bonjwa, end of story. Dominating a year of Terran-favored maps(last year) is good but being Bonjwa means you transcend "maps" as a factor in your winning. To become the 5th Bonjwa(after Savior) he has to prove himself on unfavored maps too, like this years which seems quite Zerg favored so far....
As I have had occasion to say in the past:
A year of dominance does NOT a bonjwa make.


I didn't ask to see a professional level demonstration of how to put your in foot in your mouth, but thank you for it nonetheless.
l10f *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3241 Posts
December 23 2010 06:47 GMT
#31
On December 23 2010 15:42 infinitestory wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2010 15:37 BaronFel wrote:
STILL BONWJA FLASH (You misspeled bonjwa )

Show nested quote +
On December 23 2010 14:45 flamewheel wrote:
Now, with a mean of 7.75 and a standard deviation of around 1.48, Flash is still (barely) within the 95% range. While this doesn't really say anything in Starcraft, it still tells me enough that this isn't too weird, right?

Just...

Well... Flash is facing elimination in both leagues, having been knocked out of one with the other a very likely option. Losing a random Proleague game is far more trivial than losing an OSL/MSL game, not to even consider being knocked out of an individual league. Even if Paralyze beats Kal (that would be a feat in itself) and Flash manages to win the tiebreaker, that would still be... odd. It really all boils down to this though: Flash is out, and after a full year of winning pretty much everything, it seems that he's finally slowed down a bit.

Alright, I didn't want this to become very long-winded.


I fail to see how it's spelled wrong


Well and Just were flipped in original post haha
Writer
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
December 23 2010 06:51 GMT
#32
Nice report I enjoyed reading all of it ^^ hope to see more of this .
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
SaikOuLighT
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada742 Posts
December 23 2010 06:56 GMT
#33
GO JAEDONG GO!
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33388 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 07:04:37
December 23 2010 07:04 GMT
#34
I resent you for trolling with the b-word when it's been effectively dead for a year or so

ok not dead, just meaningless
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
PoP
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
France15446 Posts
December 23 2010 07:05 GMT
#35
Excellent read. What an exciting turn of events those two Starleagues have been for the BW scene so far.
Administrator
Kimaker
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2131 Posts
December 23 2010 07:05 GMT
#36
IDRA QUOTE!!!!

GIMMIE MA MONEH!
Entusman #54 (-_-) ||"Gold is for the Mistress-Silver for the Maid-Copper for the craftsman cunning in his trade. "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, But Iron — Cold Iron — is master of them all|| "Optimism is Cowardice."- Oswald Spengler
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33388 Posts
December 23 2010 07:06 GMT
#37
fuck it, I'm gonna link to my old article every time someone trolls with bonjwa -_-
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Lucumo
Profile Joined January 2010
6850 Posts
December 23 2010 07:07 GMT
#38
GO JAEDONG GO!


On another note: Nice write-up
fofa2000
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada548 Posts
December 23 2010 07:08 GMT
#39
GO Jaedong Go!
-smells likes tasty soup, what's the menu?-fresh jaedong style marine stew served with a glass of dragoon slush!-The food's any good?Quite unusual names, never heard-all my food's good, the kitchen's this way-btw whatu terarn doing alone in a zerg colony?
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 07:14:31
December 23 2010 07:10 GMT
#40
On December 23 2010 15:18 ]343[ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2010 15:06 Lightwip wrote:
Mmm idra quote.
That's a pretty funny quote but I'd attribute that more to TvT than PvP.
GO BEESUIT GO!


wait what? at least you can see tanks, and vultures don't drop on your head!?

Dunno man, tanks and vultures dropping right on top of you are pretty bad. The only way terran could be worse is if they had some sort of random invisible thing that just randomly destroys your entire army. OH WAIT!
+ Show Spoiler +
No I'm not serious.

Edit: REEBO! FINALLY!
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
phosphorylation
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2935 Posts
December 23 2010 07:11 GMT
#41
One does not drop down to the Bonjwa level, only to S-class, A-class or below.
Bonjwa is bonjwa.
Buy prints of my photographs at Redbubble -> http://www.redbubble.com/people/shoenberg3
Elefanto
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland3584 Posts
December 23 2010 07:14 GMT
#42
Yeah more Bw coverage, great write-up thx!

GO BISU GO!
wat
ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
December 23 2010 07:14 GMT
#43
Great write up. Song Byung Goo hwating!
IntoTheEmo
Profile Joined February 2009
Singapore1169 Posts
December 23 2010 07:32 GMT
#44
Poor Flash, he deserved better than this, even as a JD fan.

Nice hidden message thing, took me a while to get it even when it was mentioned :\

Also, I don't get it but... GO JAEDONG GO!!!!

+ Show Spoiler +
GO JAEDONG GO!!!!


Thanks for the timely coverage as usual, missed the Flash games... Can't wait for the other groups of death!
MMOs kill APM. However Proleague plus BW Proscene music increase APM -> 100. 이제동 Fighting! Highest ranked Jaedong owner in FPL10 = clearly #1 Jaedong fan~! <- Keeping my sig from 2010
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
December 23 2010 07:34 GMT
#45
GO JAEDONG GO!
Brood War loyalist
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
December 23 2010 07:35 GMT
#46
[image loading]
Translator:3
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
December 23 2010 07:36 GMT
#47
Wow did we just start a meme lolf?
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
iNversion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States107 Posts
December 23 2010 07:38 GMT
#48
On December 23 2010 15:24 NicksonReyes wrote:
In the earlier moments of the osl games, they show twitter shouts below. I just noticed that in the game of bonjwa vs hyuk, the Flash one says "Paralyze Fighting".
Edit: Jung Kyung Doo Fighting!

he knew he was gonna lose and would need paralyze to win to stay in the osl? o_o
Doraemon
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Australia14949 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 07:47:16
December 23 2010 07:46 GMT
#49
everytime flash loses, my penis grows an inch longer. true story. keep losing flash! XD

great write up. no idea how someone managed to find the hidden message ==
Do yourself a favour and just STFU
CoWsGoesMoo
Profile Joined June 2010
250 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 08:09:44
December 23 2010 08:09 GMT
#50
For a bonjwa he sure has gotten far in both OSL and MSL leagues this season. Oh wait he got eliminated. So much for being a bonjwa.


P.S. Article was nicely written. ;P
SushilS
Profile Joined November 2010
2115 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 08:11:51
December 23 2010 08:11 GMT
#51
On December 23 2010 17:09 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:
For a bonjwa he sure has gotten far in both OSL and MSL leagues this season. Oh wait he got eliminated. So much for being a bonjwa.

Make your point in a less troll-y way imo....
iceiceice: I’m going to make this short; I am the one true tinker player.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 08:41:49
December 23 2010 08:41 GMT
#52
tbh, I think that flash didnt want to drop out of MSL, but when he did he used his mothers advice as an "excuse" for it being OK.

On the other hand I think he winged it and decided to take a break from indiv leagues on the OSL the way he played vs Hyuk... I mean, Hyuk didn't play amazing (he played good, etc and flash 8raxxed...) But tbh I dont think he put same amount of practice into it, as he would normally.

And if others just catched up while flash doing worse... well... It took a goddamn year to do so, about friggin time tbh.
Cant wait for next time someone elevates their play in the same manner. I get goozebumbs at the thought of it.

Thanks for the writeup flamewheel! You made me think over tihngs abit, that's something I will allways love when someone provokes me to think.
In the woods, there lurks..
Raz0r
Profile Joined September 2008
United States287 Posts
December 23 2010 08:48 GMT
#53
All I want for Christmas is Flash to lose! YAY!
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
December 23 2010 08:55 GMT
#54
I don't understand with the flash hate you have to got to give the kid credit for being a terran player to dominate scene and bring terran to the next level without him you will be playing single armory vs protoss the whole time . Flash is will always be the leader of the terran race Lead teh way . Lee young ho fighting !.
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
Caos2
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1728 Posts
December 23 2010 09:28 GMT
#55
Great write-up and battle reports.

BTW, I remember this post
On December 16 2010 19:22 Caos2 wrote:
On 1881, Friedrich Nietzsche wrote:
God is dead.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
December 23 2010 09:31 GMT
#56
I am kinda sad Flash got dominated because on better maps I wanted to see if Flash could beat Jaedong in a bo5. Now I am a sad panda .

Oh well hopefully Jaedong can win both leagues and beat Nada's record for medals :D
When I think of something else, something will go here
FreeUrMind
Profile Joined November 2005
639 Posts
December 23 2010 09:55 GMT
#57
I hope he is losing on purpose so he can switch over to SC 2 There is nothing more for him to prove in BW...
In God We Trust. All other must submit x.509 certificate
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
December 23 2010 10:05 GMT
#58
On December 23 2010 18:55 FreeUrMind wrote:
I hope he is losing on purpose so he can switch over to SC 2 There is nothing more for him to prove in BW...


That's nonsense he's still young he has so many thing to prove in broodwar and he hasn't even reach his peak yet .
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
FuRong
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand3089 Posts
December 23 2010 10:11 GMT
#59
Haters gonna hate, I'm not even gonna bother reading most of the posts in this thread.

I've kind of been thinking about the same questions after this whole fiasco...is this it? Considering Flash only earned the title of bonjwa after his dual Starleague win a few months ago, is this already the end of his reign? It seems improbable but possible. You can never lose the title of bonjwa once you have earned it, but the question is when we look back at history, will December 2010 be looked at as the month when Flash's domination ended?

It's really hard to say. The only proof we have is four bo1 losses, and one of them was against Kal (Protoss of the year) on a Protoss favoured map. That's obviously forgiveable. But what about the other three losses? Ssak and Classic? And then to top it off, Hyuk? Are you fucking serious? These are not the sort of guys you expect to take games off Flash, especially consecutively.

But at the same time, these three losses don't seem to be signs of any general slump. Flash is still dominating Proleague, and it's been a long time since anyone beat him in a boX series. That's why after the MSL elimination, I wanted him to make it out of the OSL group stage so badly. Even if he is dropping games, I still feel that the real test is in a bo3 or bo5 series. This is where his true strength lies, and if he got beaten straight up in a boX series by someone other than JD then it would definitely point towards his streak of dominance coming to an end. But now we don't even get to see that (barring an Afrotoss miracle) which means that it's all kind of up in the air. It's definitely worrying, but I don't think the haters can celebrate just yet...
Don't hate the player, hate the game
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
December 23 2010 10:17 GMT
#60
On December 23 2010 18:55 FreeUrMind wrote:
I hope he is losing on purpose so he can switch over to SC 2 There is nothing more for him to prove in BW...


Nothing more to prove eh? I'm pretty sure he wants to get ahead of Nada in awards which he isn't even tied with him yet (1 more individual league for both him and Jaedong I believe to tie). He still has alot to prove its good he had 1 amazing year but Jaedong has been so good for what 2-3 years now? Would be nice to see if he can be as consistent at jaedong at being top.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Janex
Profile Joined November 2010
Philippines23 Posts
December 23 2010 10:38 GMT
#61
lol flash...

GO JAEDONG GO!
J v All FTW!!!
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
December 23 2010 10:38 GMT
#62
On December 23 2010 14:57 fly.stat wrote:
First letters of the Shot Down's paragraphs spell:

Still Bonwja (sic) Flash.

Where's my e-sports dollars?


LOL
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
kamikami
Profile Joined November 2010
France1057 Posts
December 23 2010 10:50 GMT
#63


"pvp is so funny

they just sit there hurling imbalanced shit at each other"

314 ESPORTS DOLLARS to whomever can tell me who this quote came from.



Lol

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=107981&currentpage=12#221
Khassar de Templari
micromegas
Profile Joined November 2008
Denmark171 Posts
December 23 2010 10:52 GMT
#64
I see why you'd wanna discuss what's up with Flash, but you might want to call the article "Flash doesn't lose games like other players do because I like him" instead of presenting it as an "MSL Recap".
We need help, the poet reckoned.
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9502 Posts
December 23 2010 11:01 GMT
#65
God, this MSL is infinitely cooler with the Flash being shot down.

Looking forward to some epic finals.
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
December 23 2010 12:15 GMT
#66
nice ramble; time will tell whether flash has truly lost his ability to dominate or whether these losses are just normal variance
and nice secret message to accompany it
brood war for life, brood war forever
SushilS
Profile Joined November 2010
2115 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 13:11:30
December 23 2010 13:08 GMT
#67
On December 23 2010 19:11 FuRong wrote:
Haters gonna hate, I'm not even gonna bother reading most of the posts in this thread.
I've kind of been thinking about the same questions after this whole fiasco...is this it? Considering Flash only earned the title of bonjwa after his dual Starleague win a few months ago, is this already the end of his reign? It seems improbable but possible. You can never lose the title of bonjwa once you have earned it.

There's actually hardly any hate here. Just people experiencing gladness that BW is still competitive.

Also, Flash has not officially been called Bonjwa by the Koreans yet. Both him and JD have the "requirements" to be called that, but being called bonjwa is something more than statistics. It has a lot to do with "power" and the extent & period of dominance and also a special characteristic that sets him apart as not just a progamer but something more.
Yeah, the koreans jokingly say he is God but we all know that being called bonjwa is a title not lightly bestowed.Noone has officially called him Bonjwa for the very same reason that JD during the Season of the Swarm wasn't called Bonjwa.
If absolute dominance lasts for only a single season/year then it is easy for the nay-sayers to point maps out as the reason for the dominance. However when the ABSOLUTE dominance is shown over new map-pools(e.g:Savior-Who dominated even during clearly unfavourable maps) then the case for bonjwa-ness becomes much stronger.
IMO, if Flash had shown the extent of dominance that he had shown last year this time, It would have been clear as day that the 5th Bonjwa has emerged. But no. Not yet....
iceiceice: I’m going to make this short; I am the one true tinker player.
Garrl
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Scotland1972 Posts
December 23 2010 13:30 GMT
#68
GO STORK GO
VENDIZ
Profile Joined October 2010
1575 Posts
December 23 2010 14:20 GMT
#69
S
T
I
L
L

B
O
N
J
W
A

F
L
A
S
H
SaGe fighting!!~~~~~~
DennyR
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany379 Posts
December 23 2010 14:34 GMT
#70
Flash is training for SC2.. true story
Jakalo
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Latvia2350 Posts
December 23 2010 15:12 GMT
#71
GOO JAEDOOOOOOOOOOONG!
Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34491 Posts
December 23 2010 15:19 GMT
#72
How on earth did you spot that secret message so quickly :/
Moderator
garbanzo
Profile Joined October 2009
United States4046 Posts
December 23 2010 15:32 GMT
#73
Excellent write-up. I must say that I like Flash slightly more (than not at all) now that he's shown a chink in his armor. I hope it's true what is said that everyone is just catching up then maybe the scene can be more competitive. Didn't really enjoy Flash dominating everything.

On that note, go Jaedong/Stork!
Even during difficult times, when I sat down to play the game, there were times where it felt like god has descended down and played [for me].
kamikami
Profile Joined November 2010
France1057 Posts
December 23 2010 15:50 GMT
#74
On December 23 2010 22:08 SushilS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2010 19:11 FuRong wrote:
Haters gonna hate, I'm not even gonna bother reading most of the posts in this thread.
I've kind of been thinking about the same questions after this whole fiasco...is this it? Considering Flash only earned the title of bonjwa after his dual Starleague win a few months ago, is this already the end of his reign? It seems improbable but possible. You can never lose the title of bonjwa once you have earned it.

There's actually hardly any hate here. Just people experiencing gladness that BW is still competitive.

Also, Flash has not officially been called Bonjwa by the Koreans yet. Both him and JD have the "requirements" to be called that, but being called bonjwa is something more than statistics. It has a lot to do with "power" and the extent & period of dominance and also a special characteristic that sets him apart as not just a progamer but something more.
Yeah, the koreans jokingly say he is God but we all know that being called bonjwa is a title not lightly bestowed.Noone has officially called him Bonjwa for the very same reason that JD during the Season of the Swarm wasn't called Bonjwa.
If absolute dominance lasts for only a single season/year then it is easy for the nay-sayers to point maps out as the reason for the dominance. However when the ABSOLUTE dominance is shown over new map-pools(e.g:Savior-Who dominated even during clearly unfavourable maps) then the case for bonjwa-ness becomes much stronger.
IMO, if Flash had shown the extent of dominance that he had shown last year this time, It would have been clear as day that the 5th Bonjwa has emerged. But no. Not yet....


What the heck are you talking about ? DES released an article after he beat Jaedong in MSL/OSL straight up calling him the 5th Bonjwa. At the same time many translators in TL confirmed that the Korean started to call him god and they generally accepted that he's bonjwa. The same happened in the foreign community with almost everyone accepted his bonjwa status and his name was added to the "bonjwa" page in liquipedia (look even a crazy Bisu/SKT fan like me accepted it). It's just common knowledge and confirmed fact that Flash is the 5th Bonjwa, but how long will he keep that title is another question.
Khassar de Templari
Deletrious
Profile Joined December 2007
United States458 Posts
December 23 2010 16:35 GMT
#75
I don't understand how beating Jaedong proves Flash is bonjwa unless Jaedong was himself Bonjwa. If we rewind the clock Jaedong was beating everybody and more often than not, beating Flash, but that didn't qualify him for bonjwa? Seems like an obvious double standard, call it sour grapes from a zerg fan if you like.

Seeing Flash lose it in individual leagues like this is bizarre, and it is a good point that it has happened in every matchup so it is not an opening problem.
Bow before the Dongjwa.
revy
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1524 Posts
December 23 2010 16:38 GMT
#76
On December 23 2010 22:08 SushilS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2010 19:11 FuRong wrote:
Haters gonna hate, I'm not even gonna bother reading most of the posts in this thread.
I've kind of been thinking about the same questions after this whole fiasco...is this it? Considering Flash only earned the title of bonjwa after his dual Starleague win a few months ago, is this already the end of his reign? It seems improbable but possible. You can never lose the title of bonjwa once you have earned it.

There's actually hardly any hate here. Just people experiencing gladness that BW is still competitive.

Also, Flash has not officially been called Bonjwa by the Koreans yet. Both him and JD have the "requirements" to be called that, but being called bonjwa is something more than statistics. It has a lot to do with "power" and the extent & period of dominance and also a special characteristic that sets him apart as not just a progamer but something more.
Yeah, the koreans jokingly say he is God but we all know that being called bonjwa is a title not lightly bestowed.Noone has officially called him Bonjwa for the very same reason that JD during the Season of the Swarm wasn't called Bonjwa.
If absolute dominance lasts for only a single season/year then it is easy for the nay-sayers to point maps out as the reason for the dominance. However when the ABSOLUTE dominance is shown over new map-pools(e.g:Savior-Who dominated even during clearly unfavourable maps) then the case for bonjwa-ness becomes much stronger.
IMO, if Flash had shown the extent of dominance that he had shown last year this time, It would have been clear as day that the 5th Bonjwa has emerged. But no. Not yet....


Go read the interview right after Korean Air S2 where the interviewer said with this win he had become a Bonjwa. You can't attribute Flash's success to good terran maps (considering in the first 4 osl/msls he was the only terran in the semis) nor can you try to take away his dominance. Flash had the best year ever, period, and it's because he was better than everyone else, no other reason.
revy
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1524 Posts
December 23 2010 16:46 GMT
#77
On December 24 2010 01:35 Deletrious wrote:
I don't understand how beating Jaedong proves Flash is bonjwa unless Jaedong was himself Bonjwa. If we rewind the clock Jaedong was beating everybody and more often than not, beating Flash, but that didn't qualify him for bonjwa? Seems like an obvious double standard, call it sour grapes from a zerg fan if you like.

Seeing Flash lose it in individual leagues like this is bizarre, and it is a good point that it has happened in every matchup so it is not an opening problem.


Because he beat JD in 3 straight BO5 finals and held a 78% winrate over a full year with more than 150 games played. Now I would say that JD probably should be a Bonjwa as well, he's been good and has been in at least 1 Finals forver, but if I were told that I could only pick one of JD or Flash to be Bonjwa there's no doubt in my mind who better fits the bill. JD is more of a long term strength type Bonjwa and Flash is more of the Oov styled hold the scene in a death grip for a while Bonjwa.
Crimson)S(hadow
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Philippines552 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 17:03:37
December 23 2010 16:52 GMT
#78
FLASH MATCHFIXING?!?!?

maybe flash is the next dark bonjwa and matchfixed, he DID let savior win in the all star match while laughing maniacly like he was happy with what he had done after all.
"It's the end of the BW era which i devoted everything to for 10 years. I tried playing sc2, but my BW memories run too deep; I felt like I was playing an entirely different game" -ToSsGirL
TrueRedemption
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States313 Posts
December 23 2010 17:00 GMT
#79
Love the ramble =) thanks for the great coverage everyone.
Writer
_Quasar_
Profile Joined October 2010
Russian Federation4405 Posts
December 23 2010 17:05 GMT
#80
shit, I was too late. I thought of an acronym immediately. still bonjwa flash )))))) Well, this time no one doubts (yet)

Jaedong looks a bit weaker than normal, too. Micro worse than usual... I think it would be right for him to adapt his playstyle and make it less micro-dependant.
For the Swarm!!! Jaedong & Neo_G.Soulkey fan.
Graham
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada1259 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 17:45:13
December 23 2010 17:36 GMT
#81
Sad as a Flash fan to see him drop out of both leagues, but theres no doubt that he'll rebound and come back stronger then ever. I mean sure he lost to some questionable opponents, but people seem to act shocked everytime Flash drops a match.

That being said, with Flash out I hope to see good things for JD but at the same time I hope for something more than JD rickrolling everyone.
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 18:29:18
December 23 2010 18:21 GMT
#82
GO JAEDONG GO!

Fantasy saying that Flash was at the forefront of Terran complaining about maps kinda dimmed my admiration for Flash, though. It coulda been out of context or whatever, so it's not that big of a deal.
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
QuickStriker
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3694 Posts
December 23 2010 18:30 GMT
#83
I really don't dig the JD bandwagon right now especially since his time is now up and same with Flash. It's time for the moment of truth and the one all of us eagerly waited for to rise to the ultimate top....

GO HYUK GO!

Yes, Hyuk. His first time ever in Ro8, soon Ro4, then finals then gold. This season is the HYUK season!
www.twitch.tv/KoreanUsher
Count9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China10928 Posts
December 23 2010 18:33 GMT
#84
On December 23 2010 16:35 infinitestory wrote:
[image loading]

haha, I was just thinking there needs to be a new graphic for the main page :p
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 18:39:55
December 23 2010 18:39 GMT
#85
I'm going to wait until Flash's time is up before I judge whether or not he is bonjwa. I'm quite sure that "bonjwa" is a term that describes an age that no longer exists. Flash certainly has the title requirement of a bonjwa, yet I'm not convinced he has the force for reasons I will not bring up(because I don't really want to argue about it). He certainly does have a smaller fanbase than the other bonjwas though(maybe oov is an exception).
GO BISU GO!
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
December 23 2010 18:41 GMT
#86
I kinda hope JD gets eliminated too. Wanna see something new this year.
God Bless
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
December 23 2010 18:50 GMT
#87
On December 24 2010 03:41 Roffles wrote:
I kinda hope JD gets eliminated too. Wanna see something new this year.

I was kinda hoping for a Bisu vs JD finals. We haven't had a Bo5 of those two in a long time and in all honesty, the GomTV Special just didn't deliver the quality of games that those two are capable of producing.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
SuperJongMan
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Jamaica11586 Posts
December 23 2010 19:04 GMT
#88
Dongjwa time.
POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~
Deekin[
Profile Joined December 2010
Serbia1713 Posts
December 23 2010 19:06 GMT
#89
GO KAL GO!
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ CJ Entus fighting! I am a Leta, Hydra, Mind and (ofcourse) Firebathero fan. (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
December 23 2010 19:56 GMT
#90
It looks like it took a few seconds for Flash to realize he was out of the MSL after he lost that 2nd game vs classic. I feel a little bad for Flash that he didn't even make it very far.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9103 Posts
December 23 2010 20:50 GMT
#91
thanks for the highly detailed game reports, I haven't watched bw in a while so they were a good read.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
December 23 2010 21:14 GMT
#92
Anyone who disagrees that Flash is still the best player in the world is lying to themselves. Nobody is unbeatable, and everyone Flash lost to are, in my opinion, either top-notch, or on a hot streak of their own, and it just happened to fall into place during the MSL to knock him out.

Also, I feel like Hyuk has so much potential and can theoretically beat anyone in Proleague -- if he's not in some weird slump.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
December 23 2010 21:21 GMT
#93
Time for Jaedong to shine! :D
n.Die_Ardi
Profile Joined September 2010
Peru8 Posts
December 23 2010 21:34 GMT
#94
GOO JAEDONG¡¡¡
JD JD
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
December 23 2010 21:40 GMT
#95
On December 24 2010 06:21 StarStruck wrote:
Time for Jaedong to shine! :D


I see what you did there! Even if it's unintentional, I love (Z)Shine and hope he goes far in both leagues.
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
Cheeseburgered
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States716 Posts
December 23 2010 21:43 GMT
#96
shine gonna win MSL and OSL
CJ Entusman #58 | Gogogo Stats
CoWsGoesMoo
Profile Joined June 2010
250 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-23 22:32:14
December 23 2010 22:31 GMT
#97
On December 23 2010 17:11 SushilS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2010 17:09 CoWsGoesMoo wrote:
For a bonjwa he sure has gotten far in both OSL and MSL leagues this season. Oh wait he got eliminated. So much for being a bonjwa.

Make your point in a less troll-y way imo....


what do you mean? sounds like someones bitter Flash lost.
kdong90
Profile Joined November 2010
United States281 Posts
December 23 2010 22:36 GMT
#98
GO STORK GO!!
stork ftw
polgas
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada1752 Posts
December 23 2010 23:16 GMT
#99
Oh Flash, I can't help but chuckle at the losses. As a JD fan, I am glad that he doesn't have to face his rival for at least one season.
Leee Jaee Doong
PineappleLumpsToss
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand2434 Posts
December 23 2010 23:40 GMT
#100
Nice write-up guys, thanks. I liked the ramble Flamewheel.

I'm putting Flash's MSL and OSL upsets down to a bit of overconfidence and the inevitable losses all SC players must face from time to time. Like many people I think it's ultimately beneficial to BW to see something other than a Flash-JD BoX, and as a Toss fan I hope the Toss players take the opportunity to break the Flash-JD dominance of the individual leagues (though JvP is looking very strong atm).
jax1492
Profile Joined November 2009
United States1632 Posts
December 24 2010 01:36 GMT
#101
Jaedong fighting~!
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
December 24 2010 02:16 GMT
#102
GO JAEDONG GO!
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
Slardar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada7593 Posts
December 24 2010 02:27 GMT
#103
AHHHH EEEEE JAEDONGUHHHHH!

Go JAEDONG GO!
SushilS
Profile Joined November 2010
2115 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-24 04:39:03
December 24 2010 02:45 GMT
#104
On December 24 2010 00:50 kamikami wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 23 2010 22:08 SushilS wrote:
On December 23 2010 19:11 FuRong wrote:
Haters gonna hate, I'm not even gonna bother reading most of the posts in this thread.
I've kind of been thinking about the same questions after this whole fiasco...is this it? Considering Flash only earned the title of bonjwa after his dual Starleague win a few months ago, is this already the end of his reign? It seems improbable but possible. You can never lose the title of bonjwa once you have earned it.

There's actually hardly any hate here. Just people experiencing gladness that BW is still competitive.

Also, Flash has not officially been called Bonjwa by the Koreans yet. Both him and JD have the "requirements" to be called that, but being called bonjwa is something more than statistics. It has a lot to do with "power" and the extent & period of dominance and also a special characteristic that sets him apart as not just a progamer but something more.
Yeah, the koreans jokingly say he is God but we all know that being called bonjwa is a title not lightly bestowed.Noone has officially called him Bonjwa for the very same reason that JD during the Season of the Swarm wasn't called Bonjwa.
If absolute dominance lasts for only a single season/year then it is easy for the nay-sayers to point maps out as the reason for the dominance. However when the ABSOLUTE dominance is shown over new map-pools(e.g:Savior-Who dominated even during clearly unfavourable maps) then the case for bonjwa-ness becomes much stronger.
IMO, if Flash had shown the extent of dominance that he had shown last year this time, It would have been clear as day that the 5th Bonjwa has emerged. But no. Not yet....


What the heck are you talking about ? DES released an article after he beat Jaedong in MSL/OSL straight up calling him the 5th Bonjwa. At the same time many translators in TL confirmed that the Korean started to call him god and they generally accepted that he's bonjwa. The same happened in the foreign community with almost everyone accepted his bonjwa status and his name was added to the "bonjwa" page in liquipedia (look even a crazy Bisu/SKT fan like me accepted it). It's just common knowledge and confirmed fact that Flash is the 5th Bonjwa, but how long will he keep that title is another question.

I would suggest you ask ground-zero Korean fans whether THEY consider Flash as a Bonjwa. None of my Korean friends consider him as Bonjwa inspite of what random interviewers may say. Also the Liquipedia article has been edited.
Ask any Korean and they will tell you that if Flash had shown the same domination this year on unfavored maps then he wud have been 100% called Bonjwa, but not yet...
Also, you don't lose the title bonjwa once you gain it. Its something that will never leave you even if the AI beats you later on in life!
iceiceice: I’m going to make this short; I am the one true tinker player.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10155 Posts
December 24 2010 03:52 GMT
#105
FlaSh is... well, kinda mortal at the moment. Flamewheel, you never mentioned that, but you pretty much said it. GO ANYONE BESIDES JAEDONG!!!
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
lacho_u
Profile Joined April 2009
Bulgaria535 Posts
December 24 2010 04:15 GMT
#106
Lee JaeDong !!!!!!!!!!!
Power is nothing without control
zerious
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3803 Posts
December 24 2010 05:01 GMT
#107
I hope Fantasy wins one of these Starleagues. He's been denied so many times .
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
December 24 2010 05:12 GMT
#108
On December 24 2010 14:01 zerious wrote:
I hope Fantasy wins one of these Starleagues. He's been denied so many times .


Twice? Its not that much for the third silver surfer. I want to have Stork vs Fantasy rematch OR Bisu vs Fantasy.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
December 24 2010 09:15 GMT
#109
On December 24 2010 14:12 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 24 2010 14:01 zerious wrote:
I hope Fantasy wins one of these Starleagues. He's been denied so many times .


Twice? Its not that much for the third silver surfer. I want to have Stork vs Fantasy rematch OR Bisu vs Fantasy.


The first stork vs fantasy was so epic, because one of them would break the curse xD

I think Jvfantasy stork or bisu would be really epic though, that would be my final of choice =3
Hey! Listen!
mmdmmd
Profile Joined June 2007
722 Posts
December 24 2010 13:54 GMT
#110
[image loading]

revy
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1524 Posts
December 24 2010 14:52 GMT
#111
On December 24 2010 11:45 SushilS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 24 2010 00:50 kamikami wrote:
On December 23 2010 22:08 SushilS wrote:
On December 23 2010 19:11 FuRong wrote:
Haters gonna hate, I'm not even gonna bother reading most of the posts in this thread.
I've kind of been thinking about the same questions after this whole fiasco...is this it? Considering Flash only earned the title of bonjwa after his dual Starleague win a few months ago, is this already the end of his reign? It seems improbable but possible. You can never lose the title of bonjwa once you have earned it.

There's actually hardly any hate here. Just people experiencing gladness that BW is still competitive.

Also, Flash has not officially been called Bonjwa by the Koreans yet. Both him and JD have the "requirements" to be called that, but being called bonjwa is something more than statistics. It has a lot to do with "power" and the extent & period of dominance and also a special characteristic that sets him apart as not just a progamer but something more.
Yeah, the koreans jokingly say he is God but we all know that being called bonjwa is a title not lightly bestowed.Noone has officially called him Bonjwa for the very same reason that JD during the Season of the Swarm wasn't called Bonjwa.
If absolute dominance lasts for only a single season/year then it is easy for the nay-sayers to point maps out as the reason for the dominance. However when the ABSOLUTE dominance is shown over new map-pools(e.g:Savior-Who dominated even during clearly unfavourable maps) then the case for bonjwa-ness becomes much stronger.
IMO, if Flash had shown the extent of dominance that he had shown last year this time, It would have been clear as day that the 5th Bonjwa has emerged. But no. Not yet....


What the heck are you talking about ? DES released an article after he beat Jaedong in MSL/OSL straight up calling him the 5th Bonjwa. At the same time many translators in TL confirmed that the Korean started to call him god and they generally accepted that he's bonjwa. The same happened in the foreign community with almost everyone accepted his bonjwa status and his name was added to the "bonjwa" page in liquipedia (look even a crazy Bisu/SKT fan like me accepted it). It's just common knowledge and confirmed fact that Flash is the 5th Bonjwa, but how long will he keep that title is another question.

I would suggest you ask ground-zero Korean fans whether THEY consider Flash as a Bonjwa. None of my Korean friends consider him as Bonjwa inspite of what random interviewers may say. Also the Liquipedia article has been edited.
Ask any Korean and they will tell you that if Flash had shown the same domination this year on unfavored maps then he wud have been 100% called Bonjwa, but not yet...
Also, you don't lose the title bonjwa once you gain it. Its something that will never leave you even if the AI beats you later on in life!


Again you start with Flash on imba maps... Let's take a look at some race stats from his individual runs:

2009 EVER OnGameNet Starleague
TvZ: 14-18 (43.8%)
PvT: 15-13 (53.6%)

2009 NATE MBCGame Starleague
TvZ: 17-15 (53.1%)
PvT: 8-9 (47.1%)

2010 Korean Air OnGameNet StarLeague
TvZ: 27-23 (54%)
PvT: 13-12 (52%)

2010 Hana Daetoo Securities MSL
TvZ: 14-7 (66.7%)
PvT: 9-13 (40.9%)

2010 Bigfile MSL
TvZ: 22-19 (53.7%)
PvT: 4-10 (28.6%)

2010 Korean Air OnGameNet StarLeague Season 2
TvZ: 17-17 (50%)
PvT: 15-17 (46.9%)

Total:
TvZ: 111-99 (52.85%)
PvT: 64-74 (46.37%)

Now how did Flash do in all these tournies?

TvZ: 29-13 (69.05%)
TvP: 18-3 (85.71%)

Now how did the rest of the terrans do in these tournies?


TvZ: 82-86 (48.81%)
PvT: 61-56 (52.13%)

Clearly the maps were imba because other terrans not Flash did soooo well.
XiaoJoyce-
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
China2908 Posts
December 24 2010 15:37 GMT
#112
Serious, I want to see Flash in SC2 scene!! I am so positive his skill will make it so different. So much difference...

Maybe they are 2 different game, some concept is different but I still belive he will be so much much better than others! I believe in... GOD! ahaaaa kekekeke.

Such pity, sometimes I am daydreaming is is SC2 pro. And he won GSL 1 GSL 2 GSL 3. And now is rich guy . I mean rich god.

And all other players give up, because god is in the competitive seen. How mortal compete against god? No... u cannot!

Ah... kekekeke I will go crazy.
Pew! Pew! Chitty Chitty Bang Bang!
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
December 24 2010 17:57 GMT
#113
Flash losing is my best belated Xmas present ever =).
RyuChus
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada442 Posts
December 24 2010 18:19 GMT
#114
Agh.. Flash nooo!! Now for me it must be, Jaedong, or maybe Bisu who wins this thing. I would be very happy if Bisu won.
I have an announcement to make, "Moo!" That is all.
everstarleague
Profile Joined December 2009
China89 Posts
December 25 2010 04:14 GMT
#115
Don't worry, it is not abnormal in this very tournament, because Flash's tvt is not very dominant, for his game style is very normal and natural with no one in his eyes, so vulture could do much harm to his eyes. In OSL, the map directly result in his lose to kal. Flash is still the strongest and the talent.

In upcoming winner-league, I think Flash will crush down every team with at least 5 all kill and then get at least 30wins. In next msl, he still could directly get into mst, and still in the osl 36r, that's enough, as long as he is not left into the hell netbar, he still a god.
sCriv
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom90 Posts
December 25 2010 07:17 GMT
#116
HwaseungOz_Jaedong GOGOGOGO
kamikami
Profile Joined November 2010
France1057 Posts
December 25 2010 11:15 GMT
#117
I can't believe someone removed Flash from the Bonjwa page when official sources confirmed his status. (in many interviews)

Q With this victory, you’ve risen to Bonjwa status.
A Receiving a title like that is quite an honor but compared to the players who rose to that level before, I think I’m still lacking. Though it’s nice if fans call me that, I still think “Ultimate Weapon” is better and more appropriate for me right now.

It's just stupid that we decide that he is not Bonjwa because SushilS asked 1 no-name Korean (he said that in the liquidpedia page) and the guy didn't think that he is Bonjwa while professional analyzers and the media has already confirmed his status.
Khassar de Templari
revy
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1524 Posts
December 25 2010 13:44 GMT
#118
On December 25 2010 20:15 kamikami wrote:
I can't believe someone removed Flash from the Bonjwa page when official sources confirmed his status. (in many interviews)

Q With this victory, you’ve risen to Bonjwa status.
A Receiving a title like that is quite an honor but compared to the players who rose to that level before, I think I’m still lacking. Though it’s nice if fans call me that, I still think “Ultimate Weapon” is better and more appropriate for me right now.

It's just stupid that we decide that he is not Bonjwa because SushilS asked 1 no-name Korean (he said that in the liquidpedia page) and the guy didn't think that he is Bonjwa while professional analyzers and the media has already confirmed his status.


Funny how he disappeared after I showed that his only leg to stand on ("imba maps") fell through. It's sad that he would go to liquipedia and remove Flash and act as if someone else did it.
zeyan12
Profile Joined December 2010
1 Post
Last Edited: 2010-12-28 06:08:06
December 28 2010 06:08 GMT
#119
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
Mindflow
Profile Joined November 2010
Korea (South)320 Posts
December 29 2010 03:41 GMT
#120
thx for the read
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