After years of watching from a distance, after nearly a decade of following from afar, TLAF-Liquid` is taking the big step. You love this game. We love this game. We've been playing it since the beginning, and now, with its biggest event ever on the horizon, we're going to embrace the inevitable. With a generous, supportive sponsor and the world's most fanatical community gaming community behind us, we're ready to go the distance.
This August, TLAF-Liquid` will put their best foot forward and board a plane to E-Sports central. Hailing from The Netherlands, Sweden and Germany, these three will, for the first time ever, fly our flag in Korea.
For one of them, it's a chance to revisit the glories of the past. For the others, it's a brand new future. For all of them though, it's a homecoming, because when a Starcraft player goes to Korea, he's only going home.
Global to Local
Excited by the prospect of going to Korea, TLAF-Liquid`Jinro seen here blowing up an outlying planet.
For the first time there is a Global Starcraft League, and we're going to give it our very best. The GSL announcement was a wake up call to some. To us, it was just good news at the right time. We didn't begin theorising. We started packing our bags.
Starting August 22nd, TLAF-Liquid` players will begin arriving in Korea. Veteran Broodwar player and TLAF-Liquid` Playing Manager Victor "Nazgul" Goossens will first set foot in the capital, quickly followed by Jonathan "Jinro" Walsh and Dario "TheLittleOne" Wunsch.
Jinro and TLO will live on a long term basis in Korea with Hayder "Haypro" Hussein joining them in the months to come. American Liquid` player Tyler "Tyler" Wasieleski on the other hand will stay in the United States and focus on his progaming career there. Victor will return home after the GSL to oversee the development of both TL and Liquid.
It all starts here - Nazgul, Jinro and TLO will play the GSL Offline Preliminaries from the 28th of August. But this is only the beginning.
At Home with oGs
When I said we were going home, it wasn't just rhetoric. For the next few months, Seoul is going to be home. Our home. Your home. TLAF-Liquid` management is proud to announce that after discussion with the Korean SC2 Team oGs, we have agreed that both our outfits will benefit from spending time together in an in-house training environment.
Starting this month, our players TLAF-Liquid`Jinro, TLAF-Liquid`TLO and oGs will share the same team house, practicing, playing and living together in an unprecedented act of friendship between a Korean and foreign team. We'd like to take this opportunity to extend a warm thank you to oGs and especially to their manager, Hwang "Spunky" Kyu Hoon for being open to this possibility and recognising the major potential there is in working together.
We have a lot of respect for all of you, and look forward to an era in which we will push each other to achieve our goals!
The Best is Yet to Come
This is our chance, TL. We've waited years for this. Through online tourneys and thousands of ladder games, we have played together, we have watched together, and we have waited together. To many of us, this was just a dream. Today, for all of us, it's a reality. Here's what the guys have to say about it.
Hi Victor, Jonathan, Dario and Hayder! We're gathered here today on the eve of one of Team Liquid's most exciting announcements. How does it feel to be at the center of all of this?
TLAF-Liquid`Jinro: At times terrifying, but mostly exhilarating! It's something I've wanted to do for a long time.
TLAF-Liquid`TLO: It feels almost unreal, as this has been a long imagined dream. And now it seems to come true for me.
TLAF-Liquid`Nazgul: Feels good. A lot of responsibility but I'm confident it's going to turn out great. And this is only the beginning I want the Liquid-oGs place to become a hub for foreign players who want to give progaming their best shot in the best possible setting.
TLAF-Liquid`Haypro: It feels really great! I've always wanted to go to Korea and and I wish I could go now with Dario, Jonathan and Victor but I can't because of personal reasons. However, I will be with them in the coming months.
Naz, you left Korea many years ago after a successful stint with a Broodwar proteam? Did you ever plan on going back? Did you ever think it'd be with your own team?
TLAF-Liquid`Nazgul: It had never occurred to me until not too long ago. We only recently got this thing rolling but so much is happening in such a short period. First the Beta hit and we managed to expand the team with amazing players, then we found a sponsor, and so fast after we're already going to Korea to establish a Liquid-oGs place. It's been a storm of big developments.
Dario and Jonathan, as Broodwar players, you guys have watched Korean progaming from a distant for years. Apart from playing the GSL and training in a professional environment, what are you most looking forward to about Korea?
TLAF-Liquid`Jinro: Honestly, I haven't really given much thought to anything about Korea beyond the gaming part. Hopefully I'll be able to meet up with some of the people I played with during my brood war days, and of course I want to catch some live SC1.
TLAF-Liquid`TLO: I am looking forward to get in touch with Korean culture, because E-Sports aside I am also a big fan of Korea. So I hope I will have some time to explore the country besides gaming. I frequently eat Korean food and very much enjoy Kpop, YEAH! Also I will have an easier time finding clothes in my size!
A fan of bunk beds, Nazgul ordered this model for the Liquid-oGs house in Korea before he pre-ordered SC2.
This will be the first time the both of you will be living in a team house. What are your thoughts on this new way of living you'll experience soon?
TLAF-Liquid`TLO: It will be hard to adapt at first I am sure. But there is so much to gain from it, the fact that Jinro will be there too helps a lot I think. Its good to have someone you can speak with. However, I will try to learn Korean. Not sure how hard it will be though.
TLAF-Liquid`Jinro: My biggest worry is being thrown out after I throw a pillow at someone in my sleep really... Other than that, as TLO said, having someone else there I think is gonna make it easier. Also, I've heard that Spunky's English is excellent, which should help things out a lot, as my Korean is fairly basic at the moment.
So Jinro, Dario and Haypro - you guys are going to be living and playing together with oGs in the months to come. That means playing with the likes of Cool, ensnare and Tester. How much are you looking forward to this?
TLAF-Liquid`Jinro: A lot, definitely. I'm looking forward to learning from them, as many of those guys have tonnes of progaming experience. Also, once my Korean improves I'll finally be able to accept TheStc's challenge to a rap battle. He probably doesn't remember but he challenged me and Midian to a rap battle on Bnet, like four years ago when he had had one too many!
TLAF-Liquid`TLO: I think there we are getting the best opportunity possible to improve our playstyle. I have faced Tester once in the KoTBH and now I will get the chance to play with him many more times - that's AWESOME. We will probably be the underdogs over there, but that's a good base to start from.
TLAF-Liquid`Haypro: Ah, this is gonna be great. Some of those guys have been progamers for a long time and will help us adapt to the new playing conditions. Also, it will be great to be in the same house as so many good players. I'm really look forward to it!
Nazgul, you've been down this road before. If there was one piece of advice you could give these guys, what would it be?
TLAF-Liquid`Nazgul: To really give it their all and not have second thoughts. Down the road you want to be sure you did everything you could no matter whether it turned out successful or not. Adjusting to Korean culture isn't very hard if you're just open to it, so open yourself up and have the time of your life!
Alright! Well, this goes without saying, but TL is gonna be behind you guys all the way. Is there anything you'd like to say to the community as they wait for you guys to board your planes?
TLAF-Liquid`TLO: In the end it is you that made this possible. I will never forget that and try to represent TL as best as I can. We'll stay in touch I am sure, TL HWAITING!
TLAF-Liquid`Jinro: Even at this early stage of the games history, Korea remains the Mecca of competitive game; going over there to play is like going to the states for the NBA or NHL. As such, I'll do my best to represent TL and the non-Korean community as well as possible, and hopefully at one point we'll have some TL-made cheerfuls on TV!
Finally, a big thank you to The Little App Factory for making all this possible! We couldn't have done this without a sponsor who understood the game, and more importantly, understood us and our vision for this team and community.
We don't know the future, but we do know this - these next few months are going to be some of the most exciting for us as a community. You know it, I know it - we're all going to get behind these guys as they take our dreams into another country, another world, another era of this game we have come to know and love. If anything, this announcement should remind us that we should never stop dreaming. Some dreams do come true.
We're going to Seoul, Team Liquid.
We're taking you with us.
Liquid` is proudly sponsored by The Little App Factory, makers of fine applications for Windows and Mac OS X and fans of great Starcraft! Their flagship program, iRip allows you to recover your music from iPods - a life saver if you, like many of us, do tech support for friends and family. In fact, for a limited time, you can use the coupon code TEAMLIQUID to get 25% off when you get TLAF products!
I just shat my pants! This is so sick, I'll be rooting hard core for you guys and I think you'll definately make you'r mark and give us foreigners a better name out there! GL and HF!!!
Glad to see TLO taking a hands on approach to learning Korean. Hope he gets further than the other ppl who go to Korea and do nothing or give up half way.
Sick guys Good luck and just try to stay positive over there, there will be hard times but atleast if you try your very hardest you will have no regrets no matter what happens.
If the foreign SC2 scene becomes big I'm going to give all the credit to you guys. For a long time I have been thinking that having a foreign team in Korea where players could play at the highest level but not be hindered by the Korean culture and the language barrier. I think this could lead to more people taking the step and going over there which would be awesome
On August 13 2010 23:34 nihoh wrote: "However, I will try to learn Korean."
Glad to see TLO taking a hands on approach to learning Korean. Hope he gets further than the other ppl who go to Korea and do nothing or give up half way.
That sounds unfair to the people that went, many of them accomplished quite a lot.
Giyom won an OSL, a King of Kings event and played in numerous other starleagues and teamleagues etc.
Elky finished 4th in an OSL, with numerous OSL/MSL appearances.
Legionnaire all-killed Pantech (I think pantech are the guys that went on to become wemadefox tho my memory is a bit hazy) among many other things, as the first protoss player to all-kill ever. Set the record for reaver kills on TV in his game against TheRock (56 I think?).
Assem took out Yellow in proleague.
Nazgul took out Xellos in proleague, Jinnam on AboutStarcraft. Made it into Challenge league on Ongamenet.
IdrA has been there for quite a long time now, I would definitely not consider what he's doing as giving up halfway - I'd say he's doing quite well for himself really (see his win in King of the beta for instance).
NonY finished second in his first ever courage tournament. I think going home to get married is a valid excuse ;]
On August 13 2010 23:44 Geo.Rion wrote: holy hell, i guess Liquid` will be tearing up foreign clan leauges in half a year with no contest
Well I hope we'll be tearing it up, but I'm sure it won't be without contest - esports should be big enough to put up a fight against Korea in the west.
On August 13 2010 23:34 nihoh wrote: "However, I will try to learn Korean."
Glad to see TLO taking a hands on approach to learning Korean. Hope he gets further than the other ppl who go to Korea and do nothing or give up half way.
That sounds unfair to the people that went, many of them accomplished quite a lot.
Giyom won an OSL, a King of Kings event and played in numerous other starleagues and teamleagues etc.
Elky finished 4th in an OSL, with numerous OSL/MSL appearances.
Legionnaire all-killed Pantech (I think pantech are the guys that went on to become wemadefox tho my memory is a bit hazy) among many other things, as the first protoss player to all-kill ever. Set the record for reaver kills on TV in his game against TheRock (56 I think?).
Assem took out Yellow in proleague.
Nazgul took out Xellos in proleague, Jinnam on AboutStarcraft. Made it into Challenge league on Ongamenet.
IdrA has been there for quite a long time now, I would definitely not consider what he's doing as giving up halfway - I'd say he's doing quite well for himself really (see his win in King of the beta for instance).
NonY finished second in his first ever courage tournament. I think going home to get married is a valid excuse ;]
He means gave up learning about Korean culture, not gave up learning about StarCraft
Im not completely sure of the nature of the relationship between any of these 3 guys and the IdrA/Artosis blob, but they should hookup for real in korea, cause im not gunna lie, the thought of IdrA and TL in a slumber party makes me wanna go bust my banelings
This is so sick, bet its going to be so much fun for you guys there aswell as tons of experience just staying there with the korean guys. I'll be cheering for you guys from my igloo here in iceland!
WOW this is big news!! Hope everything goes well for you all and maybe this is the beginning of Korean and foreign scene becoming one in sc2... Good luck to you all!!
On August 13 2010 23:34 nihoh wrote: "However, I will try to learn Korean."
Glad to see TLO taking a hands on approach to learning Korean. Hope he gets further than the other ppl who go to Korea and do nothing or give up half way.
That sounds unfair to the people that went, many of them accomplished quite a lot.
Giyom won an OSL, a King of Kings event and played in numerous other starleagues and teamleagues etc.
Elky finished 4th in an OSL, with numerous OSL/MSL appearances.
Legionnaire all-killed Pantech (I think pantech are the guys that went on to become wemadefox tho my memory is a bit hazy) among many other things, as the first protoss player to all-kill ever. Set the record for reaver kills on TV in his game against TheRock (56 I think?).
Assem took out Yellow in proleague.
Nazgul took out Xellos in proleague, Jinnam on AboutStarcraft. Made it into Challenge league on Ongamenet.
IdrA has been there for quite a long time now, I would definitely not consider what he's doing as giving up halfway - I'd say he's doing quite well for himself really (see his win in King of the beta for instance).
NonY finished second in his first ever courage tournament. I think going home to get married is a valid excuse ;]
He means gave up learning about Korean culture, not gave up learning about StarCraft
Oh hahaha
Well ok, Rekrul and Giyom speak korean at least! No clue about Elky.
What is oGs? And guys, don't you think that in each article must be at least one explanation of each non all-over-places used acronym? Coz reading oGs'es and FA's don't understanding what it means is so much fun, yeah.
On August 14 2010 00:07 elagrion wrote: What is oGs? And guys, don't you think that in each article must be at least one explanation of each non all-over-places used acronym? Coz reading oGs'es and FA's don't understanding what it means is so much fun, yeah.
oGs is the top Korean SC2 proteam. Tester, Cool, and IntoTheRainbow (for example) are all on oGs.
On August 14 2010 00:07 elagrion wrote: What is oGs? And guys, don't you think that in each article must be at least one explanation of each non all-over-places used acronym? Coz reading oGs'es and FA's don't understanding what it means is so much fun, yeah.
oGs is probably the best SC2 team in the world, at the moment.
On August 14 2010 00:07 elagrion wrote: What is oGs? And guys, don't you think that in each article must be at least one explanation of each non all-over-places used acronym? Coz reading oGs'es and FA's don't understanding what it means is so much fun, yeah.
From the article -
TLAF-Liquid` management is proud to announce that after discussion with the Korean SC2 Team oGs...
Learning a language especially Korean is very difficult. I spent 4 months in Hungary, even taking language classes, and by the end of it still couldn't have a conversation. Hungarian is very difficult to learn, but Korean is regarded as one of the 5 hardest languages to learn as a 2nd language (or 3rd, 4th, etc.) for English-speaking folk.
I guess my point is.. You can learn enough of the language to get by and experience the culture full-on without becoming fluent in the language. Enjoy your time there, play lots of starcraft, MAKE FRIENDS (man all those Korean girls are gonna dig you so much...), explore the city, and have fun.
Holy shit! Such a big step - in the right direction! Everything is moving so fast... as far as I'm concerned this is great. Anything to open up Starcraft and eSports to the global audience is something I'm all for. GL HF!
On August 14 2010 00:12 Badjas wrote: Question, will TLO get his first official team reprimand for breaking this news early?
TLO did not break the news. It was shared with a tournament organiser with the understanding that it was confidential, but was thereafter leaked. Our players are professionals, they would never start or feed rumours.
On August 14 2010 00:07 elagrion wrote: What is oGs? And guys, don't you think that in each article must be at least one explanation of each non all-over-places used acronym? Coz reading oGs'es and FA's don't understanding what it means is so much fun, yeah.
As stated oGs is a korean team. And FA = FrozenArbiter = Liquid Jinro.
On August 14 2010 00:07 elagrion wrote: What is oGs? And guys, don't you think that in each article must be at least one explanation of each non all-over-places used acronym? Coz reading oGs'es and FA's don't understanding what it means is so much fun, yeah.
FA = Free Agent. Having some kind of "commonly used phrases" somewhere on the site might not be a bad idea.
EDIT: Or FA = FrozenArbiter, IE my old ID... Seeing articles about free-agents always confuses me because of this
Way to go TeamLiquid! I think we'll all be cheering for you across the pond... I foresee a lot of late nights staying up to watch the GSL in the coming months...
On August 13 2010 23:34 nihoh wrote: "However, I will try to learn Korean."
Glad to see TLO taking a hands on approach to learning Korean. Hope he gets further than the other ppl who go to Korea and do nothing or give up half way.
That sounds unfair to the people that went, many of them accomplished quite a lot.
Giyom won an OSL, a King of Kings event and played in numerous other starleagues and teamleagues etc.
Elky finished 4th in an OSL, with numerous OSL/MSL appearances.
Legionnaire all-killed Pantech (I think pantech are the guys that went on to become wemadefox tho my memory is a bit hazy) among many other things, as the first protoss player to all-kill ever. Set the record for reaver kills on TV in his game against TheRock (56 I think?).
Assem took out Yellow in proleague.
Nazgul took out Xellos in proleague, Jinnam on AboutStarcraft. Made it into Challenge league on Ongamenet.
IdrA has been there for quite a long time now, I would definitely not consider what he's doing as giving up halfway - I'd say he's doing quite well for himself really (see his win in King of the beta for instance).
NonY finished second in his first ever courage tournament. I think going home to get married is a valid excuse ;]
He means gave up learning about Korean culture, not gave up learning about StarCraft
Oh hahaha
Well ok, Rekrul and Giyom speak korean at least! No clue about Elky.
This is just awesome news! I'm so happy for you guys! I wish you all the best of luck in your stay and hope you guys produce some excellent games to make the foreign community proud! Do your best the community is behind you! :D
On August 13 2010 23:24 riptide wrote: Starting this month, our players TLAF-Liquid`Jinro, TLAF-Liquid`TLO and oGs will share the same team house, practicing, playing and living together in an unprecedented act of friendship between a Korean and foreign team.
This is not true.
ESTRO has always been like this, and long ago it had a lot of foreigners, so I wouldn't say its entirely unprecedented
Wow....really hope you guys do well. All I got to say is, that things wont be easy. As I read the interview and hearing how excited everyone is, I couldn't help but think of all the other foreign players who tried to make it big in Korea during SC1. I think it was ret (if I remember correctly) who had a really bad experience in Korea. Made him quit SC1. I dont really want that to happen to you guys.
Of course, times have changed but hardships are the only guarantee you'll have. So if you guys really say that this is your dream and stuff, then persevere.
Wow, fantastic news! This is going to have such a positive impact on not just these skillful and influential players but it may actually be groundbreaking in the current eSPORTS world pending on how many foreigners end up following suit. Best of luck to all of you and I'm sure many of us will be looking forward to cheering and ooo-gling at your SC2 play for years to come!
On August 14 2010 00:38 Ack1027 wrote: FA! If you ever need help with Korean or any questions feel free to ask!
Jinro is still strange to say ;3 you're always frozenarbiter in my heart!
This definitely! Whenever I watch a VOD with you in it Im thinking 'FrozenArbiter is winning/losing' instead of 'Jinro is winning/losing' haha. But this news gave me such a vicious nerdgasm. It would truly be amazing if sc2 eventually became a huge esport there with team leagues and such, and `Liquid was one of the top teams. If a player like IdrA who got so much better simply by willing himself to and working hard at it, imagine what these geniuses could do with enough hard work!
Wow, incredible news. I still love Broodwar, but this is the kind of thing that gets me excited about Starcraft 2 in spite of myself. Good luck in Korea, gentlemen. I only wish Nony could join you, but I completely understand why he can't and look forward to seeing him tear up the North American scene.
if you need to learn any choreography for kpop songs to better integrate yourself with oGs to show that you really care about korean culture i will quit school to help you learn
Some of the best news for foreign esports! I really hope we can get some cool videos from artosis as he interviews the liquid players in the ogs house!
On August 14 2010 01:20 qoiN wrote: Expecting 12 hours daily streaming from TLO, Jinro and shortly after Haypro then!
Maybe they should set up a webcam that streams 24/7 in their practice room or something (zoomed out so you can't see all their strats and whatnot) but so people can get a "feel" of what the gamers are feeling hehe
This is unbelievable. To think that what began as a dominant beta force may very well be the team to beat in competitive SC2, all thanks to the great support from the sponsors and TL... it's just friggin awesome. BEST OF LUCK, LIQUID'!
On August 14 2010 01:37 ColorsOfRainbow wrote: can tlo still play in eps when he isnt anymore in germany ?
Rules (at least for previous season) state you have to be in Germany when you play your games. Also he would have to play at 4 am korean time and deal with the horrible Europe to Asia lag. So he informed the ESL that he won't participate in the EPS.
I think the real question is when can we update our favourite team icons to TL? o.O
EDIT: Hm FuDD would make an excellent team mascot and perhaps he can even brand everyone's shoulders with tattoos, so no one can jump ship! (Like that would ever happen!)
i dont know what to say. its like a prophecy is finally being fulfilled, its really, really awesome! thank you, TLAF-Liquid for this most amazing move.
On August 14 2010 01:52 Lglow wrote: Hah, I am speechless. Suffice to say, I am grinning from ear to ear. Enjoy yourselves gentlemen.
This! I have a big, fat grin on my face as well.
Good luck to you all. I hope you do well in the prelims, but that's very soon and I won't be disappointed if it takes a while longer to get up to par with the competition over there. You will get there in due time, I'm sure.
Will be amazing to see foreigners in televised matches!
Oh, and I love how TBO often chimes in to answer TLO related questions. Gives me this nce image of a protective older brother ^^
EDIT:
On August 14 2010 01:55 Mykill wrote: go liquid!! maybe we can cheer for liquid on the streams!
liquid hwaiting!!!
Yes, and liquidbetting against them should have an autoban mechanism.
I'm happy for you guys. Whatever happens now is in your hands.
You're about to find out what youre made of both socially and professionally. Sleeping in bunk beds in a country where you dont even speak the language and training to stand out in a viciously competetive job. Very inspiring.
Good luck to all of you, and I hope Nazgul, with his experience, does a great job supporting you.
But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea?
So what? Thats anyones own choice.
It doesnt mean anyone can win the GSL. You are free to try to qualify, but i dont know why thats bad. You could try to qualify for SCBW thru Courage. A separately named qualifier doesnt fundamentally make the process different.
If youre good enough to show up in the latter stages of the GSL - you will. Regardless of how you got there.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
SC1 and SC2 are totally different game. if you don't pass courage in SC1 absolutely doen't mean than you won't pass the top 32 in GSL.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
This is SC2. Not Brood War, different games you know.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
SC1 and SC2 are totally different game. if you don't pass courage in SC1 absolutely doen't mean than you won't pass the top 32 in GSL.
That's my point exactly. Less skill in progames = less skills necessary to win = less enjoyment from watching.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
This is SC2. Not Brood War, different games you know.
Yea. SC2 has tournaments with more money than SC1, but with players who don't need the top-notch skills of SC1 players to win. SC1 demands more skill, and most of the skills that it demands are skills that are present in SC2, just at a lower degree. So, my question is, why are we jumping headfirst into this new game which is less demanding than its predecessor? Because there's money involved and because we can? Well, count me out.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
SC1 and SC2 are totally different game. if you don't pass courage in SC1 absolutely doen't mean than you won't pass the top 32 in GSL.
That's my point exactly. Less skill in progames = less skills necessary to win = less enjoyment from watching.
Then why are you even posting here? If you don't like SC2, don't watch it. You don't need to continually post in SC2 topics about how you think it's a worse game.
edit: oops, didn't see your last post. in any event, stop doing this please.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
SC1 and SC2 are totally different game. if you don't pass courage in SC1 absolutely doen't mean than you won't pass the top 32 in GSL.
That's my point exactly. Less skill in progames = less skills necessary to win = less enjoyment from watching.
Then why are you even posting here? If you don't like SC2, don't watch it. You don't need to continually post in SC2 topics about how you think it's a worse game.
edit: oops, didn't see your last post. in any event, stop doing this please.
Because SC2 is what is dominating the headlines now in terms of current TL (team, admin, and poster) time investment. Therefore it is the direction we are heading it. What I am saying is we are jumping head first into this. On the one hand it is not my place to judge people for their dreams and aspirations, but on the other hand I am entitled to an opinion (I don't feel like I am inappropriate in my delivery). Like many opinions of a regressive minority in previous times, it is also true that the fight is futile and in the end people will do what they want to do. I said before that I'd not post in SC2 topics but every newspost that reveals more and more intention to devote resources and manpower to it... it feels like it drains my soul a little more. Sorry for bothering people.
P.S. not watching it is not the problem, I already do that. It's seeing the community I've come to appreciate and enjoy changing to something I disagree with.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
First of all, SC2 is a brand new game.
2nd, Nazgul has been to Korea to play SC1, and he made it onto TV.
3rd, I may not be able to take games in SC1 off korean pros today, but I have done it before I quit playing SC1 in late 2006.
On August 14 2010 00:45 Nal_rAwr wrote: This is not true.
ESTRO has always been like this, and long ago it had a lot of foreigners, so I wouldn't say its entirely unprecedented
What do you mean it's not true, I was in ESTRO (called AMD) in the period you are talking about, but where is the foreign team in all of this?
wasn't there a lot of foreigners in estro?
Yes there were a lot of foreigners in Estro and so you are correct in the fact that Estro was friendly/supportive towards foreigners as separate players. The important factor here is that the foreigners were part of the Estro team. That however is not what the OP is stating.
The point in the OP is that it's a Foreign Team and a Korean Team (so 2 teams where Estro was only 1 team and a Korean one at that) working this closely together. I would assume oGs management can't dictate what the Liquid` players do and vice versa. Everything will be done in joint cooperation and on mutual agreement. Whereas Estro could completely decide what their foreign players should do as they were an integral part of their team.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
First of all, SC2 is a brand new game.
2nd, Nazgul has been to Korea to play SC1, and he made it onto TV.
3rd, I may not be able to take games in SC1 off korean pros today, but I have done it before I quit playing SC1 in late 2006.
Of course not. I am well aware of the abilities of the TL staff (especially the founders). This is why TL is such a great site. I tried to make it obvious that I am not hating on you for your lack of abilities. But there is a reason why you guys aren't playing in the OSL right now, and why you are going to Korea for SC2 and not SC1. I didn't mean to come off as disrespectful to you, Nazgul, and other players that used to be in Korea playing the game that I love. I have a lot of respect for you. Also Nony, Rekrul, Leg, Idra, Rek, and every other player that has. But I find it hard to support this move to SC2. That's my main problem. Your 3rd point is the one that is most exemplary of my stance - SC is very different now than it was in 2006, or 2001, or SC2.
I said in an earlier post in this thread, GL to all of you. I really do wish you the best. But more than anything I wish for SC to live on forever and to not lose any steam. SC2 is a direct enemy of this.
Amazing, I never thought this would happen. Good luck in Korea guys! Now if you get IdrA rage, you can actually walk over to his place and sock him one! J/K, best of luck and have fun! We'll be watching and HWAITING!
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
SC1 and SC2 are totally different game. if you don't pass courage in SC1 absolutely doen't mean than you won't pass the top 32 in GSL.
That's my point exactly. Less skill in progames = less skills necessary to win = less enjoyment from watching.
Then why are you even posting here? If you don't like SC2, don't watch it. You don't need to continually post in SC2 topics about how you think it's a worse game.
edit: oops, didn't see your last post. in any event, stop doing this please.
Because SC2 is what is dominating the headlines now in terms of current TL (team, admin, and poster) time investment. Therefore it is the direction we are heading it. What I am saying is we are jumping head first into this. On the one hand it is not my place to judge people for their dreams and aspirations, but on the other hand I am entitled to an opinion (I don't feel like I am inappropriate in my delivery). Like many opinions of a regressive minority in previous times, it is also true that the fight is futile and in the end people will do what they want to do. I said before that I'd not post in SC2 topics but every newspost that reveals more and more intention to devote resources and manpower to it... it feels like it drains my soul a little more. Sorry for bothering people.
P.S. not watching it is not the problem, I already do that. It's seeing the community I've come to appreciate and enjoy changing to something I disagree with.
still honestly not seeing why you are posting then. If you still disagree with the game and the scene, why are you still following? There are so many games that you can follow, why is team-liquid forcing you to like SC2. If you disagree with their move to Korea, it might be the best just to keep it to yourself instead of starting an unneeded shit storm on their glorious parade.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
First of all, SC2 is a brand new game.
2nd, Nazgul has been to Korea to play SC1, and he made it onto TV.
3rd, I may not be able to take games in SC1 off korean pros today, but I have done it before I quit playing SC1 in late 2006.
Of course not. I am well aware of the abilities of the TL staff (especially the founders). This is why TL is such a great site. I tried to make it obvious that I am not hating on you for your lack of abilities. But there is a reason why you guys aren't playing in the OSL right now, and why you are going to Korea for SC2 and not SC1. I didn't mean to come off as disrespectful to you, Nazgul, and other players that used to be in Korea playing the game that I love. I have a lot of respect for you. Also Nony, Rekrul, Leg, Idra, Rek, and every other player that has. But I find it hard to support this move to SC2. That's my main problem. Your 3rd point is the one that is most exemplary of my stance - SC is very different now than it was in 2006, or 2001, or SC2.
I said in an earlier post in this thread, GL to all of you. I really do wish you the best. But more than anything I wish for SC to live on forever and to not lose any steam. SC2 is a direct enemy of this.
I'm just trying to understand your reasoning here: The skill required for success in SC2 is much lower than in SC, and so there is "fault" in "this move to SC2," because fans of progaming should not be okay with such an uncompetitive game and atmosphere. Is that about it? If so, whose move is it you are faulting: Is it that TL (the team) is doing something wrong? Or TL (the website)? Or TL (the community)? Or somebody else? Clearly somebody is doing something wrong, since somebody is at fault.
I'm pretty sure I disagree with you, but I'm not sure; for now I'm just trying to figure out exactly what it is you're objecting to.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
SC1 and SC2 are totally different game. if you don't pass courage in SC1 absolutely doen't mean than you won't pass the top 32 in GSL.
That's my point exactly. Less skill in progames = less skills necessary to win = less enjoyment from watching.
But isn't it to early to tell if you will indeed need less skill? Perhaps it's just different skills. Everybody starts at zero again so it's not as if the Koreans are better as the foreigners at this point.
If what you said would hold true then the Koreans would start dominating the SC2 leagues in not to much time (if you have better skills imo you'll always have a slight edge even if the game doesn't let you use the full potential of said skills). And if that is true the foreigners that can't keep up with the pace will be home again soon enough.
But even in SC1 it's not that the Koreans are genetically better in playing the game it's just that they do it a lot more and have been immersed with it in these past years. In a new game where everybody starts at zero everybody that jumps in at the beginning has a good chance to be the best. It's only a matter of how dedicated you are to reach that goal.
And with the start of the team house Liquid` provides all opportunities to currently maximize the output of the players.
Even if all current SC1 players would make the switch in a month or so to SC2 they would be behind in tactics, game knowledge etc. so it's not as if they would automatically shoot to the top of SC2. They would have to work hard at it just as the rest of the world.
Last but not least: although Korea is currently the Mecca for professional SC1 who is to say that with all the money and attention that gets put into tournaments worldwide it will remain Korea? Perhaps America will get a much fiercer competition with more opportunities and big tournaments. Perhaps in SC2 America will become the Mecca.
All in all I think it's a bit early to decide what the parameters for professional SC2 will be. We will just have to wait and see.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
SC1 and SC2 are totally different game. if you don't pass courage in SC1 absolutely doen't mean than you won't pass the top 32 in GSL.
That's my point exactly. Less skill in progames = less skills necessary to win = less enjoyment from watching.
None of what you're saying seems to have a strong underlying logical foundation. You're leaping around making arbitrary claims based on God knows what and drawing conclusions from your own flawed analysis.
I'd talk more about this, but you've apparently peaced out of this thread. I just don't want people taking this horrible line of thinking as a reasonable interpretation of what's going on with the blooming SC2 competitive scene.
On August 13 2010 23:34 nihoh wrote: "However, I will try to learn Korean."
Glad to see TLO taking a hands on approach to learning Korean. Hope he gets further than the other ppl who go to Korea and do nothing or give up half way.
That sounds unfair to the people that went, many of them accomplished quite a lot.
Giyom won an OSL, a King of Kings event and played in numerous other starleagues and teamleagues etc.
Elky finished 4th in an OSL, with numerous OSL/MSL appearances.
Legionnaire all-killed Pantech (I think pantech are the guys that went on to become wemadefox tho my memory is a bit hazy) among many other things, as the first protoss player to all-kill ever. Set the record for reaver kills on TV in his game against TheRock (56 I think?).
Assem took out Yellow in proleague.
Nazgul took out Xellos in proleague, Jinnam on AboutStarcraft. Made it into Challenge league on Ongamenet.
IdrA has been there for quite a long time now, I would definitely not consider what he's doing as giving up halfway - I'd say he's doing quite well for himself really (see his win in King of the beta for instance).
NonY finished second in his first ever courage tournament. I think going home to get married is a valid excuse ;]
I think he meant it in terms of learning the language =p
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
SC1 and SC2 are totally different game. if you don't pass courage in SC1 absolutely doen't mean than you won't pass the top 32 in GSL.
That's my point exactly. Less skill in progames = less skills necessary to win = less enjoyment from watching.
Then why are you even posting here? If you don't like SC2, don't watch it. You don't need to continually post in SC2 topics about how you think it's a worse game.
edit: oops, didn't see your last post. in any event, stop doing this please.
Because SC2 is what is dominating the headlines now in terms of current TL (team, admin, and poster) time investment. Therefore it is the direction we are heading it. What I am saying is we are jumping head first into this. On the one hand it is not my place to judge people for their dreams and aspirations, but on the other hand I am entitled to an opinion (I don't feel like I am inappropriate in my delivery). Like many opinions of a regressive minority in previous times, it is also true that the fight is futile and in the end people will do what they want to do. I said before that I'd not post in SC2 topics but every newspost that reveals more and more intention to devote resources and manpower to it... it feels like it drains my soul a little more. Sorry for bothering people.
P.S. not watching it is not the problem, I already do that. It's seeing the community I've come to appreciate and enjoy changing to something I disagree with.
still honestly not seeing why you are posting then. If you still disagree with the game and the scene, why are you still following? There are so many games that you can follow, why is team-liquid forcing you to like SC2. If you disagree with their move to Korea, it might be the best just to keep it to yourself instead of starting an unneeded shit storm on their glorious parade.
1. I am not starting a "shit-storm." Do you see me cursing people out or arguing blindly? 2. I don't see how my posting this is harming anyone. 3. TL is not "forcing" me to like SC2, not at all. I'm not following either. That's the problem - TL is moving on to something new and different, without showing me why I should like what is happening. 4. I don't disagree with their move to Korea. I disagree with SC2.
Holy shit guys, this is incredible news. I'm so proud to be a part of this website, I always hoped something like this would happen and it did. I hope more foreigners follow suit in months/years to come, would be incredible to have a good foreign presence in in the professional scene.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
First of all, SC2 is a brand new game.
2nd, Nazgul has been to Korea to play SC1, and he made it onto TV.
3rd, I may not be able to take games in SC1 off korean pros today, but I have done it before I quit playing SC1 in late 2006.
Of course not. I am well aware of the abilities of the TL staff (especially the founders). This is why TL is such a great site. I tried to make it obvious that I am not hating on you for your lack of abilities. But there is a reason why you guys aren't playing in the OSL right now, and why you are going to Korea for SC2 and not SC1. I didn't mean to come off as disrespectful to you, Nazgul, and other players that used to be in Korea playing the game that I love. I have a lot of respect for you. Also Nony, Rekrul, Leg, Idra, Rek, and every other player that has. But I find it hard to support this move to SC2. That's my main problem. Your 3rd point is the one that is most exemplary of my stance - SC is very different now than it was in 2006, or 2001, or SC2.
I said in an earlier post in this thread, GL to all of you. I really do wish you the best. But more than anything I wish for SC to live on forever and to not lose any steam. SC2 is a direct enemy of this.
I'm just trying to understand your reasoning here: The skill required for success in SC2 is much lower than in SC, and so there is "fault" in "this move to SC2," because fans of progaming should not be okay with such an uncompetitive game and atmosphere. Is that about it? If so, whose move is it you are faulting: Is it that TL (the team) is doing something wrong? Or TL (the website)? Or TL (the community)? Or somebody else? Clearly somebody is doing something wrong, since somebody is at fault.
I'm pretty sure I disagree with you, but I'm not sure; for now I'm just trying to figure out exactly what it is you're objecting to.
You're pretty much correct in the first few lines. Who I claim to be at fault is the game itself moreso than anything, but also the TL staff for supporting it. Players being sent to Korea is just a manifestation of that fault and I have nothing against them personally. My biggest grudge is against SC2 and the followers that have accepted it as a prosport without there being ample skill requirements for it to be considered as such.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
SC1 and SC2 are totally different game. if you don't pass courage in SC1 absolutely doen't mean than you won't pass the top 32 in GSL.
That's my point exactly. Less skill in progames = less skills necessary to win = less enjoyment from watching.
None of what you're saying seems to have a strong underlying logical foundation. You're leaping around making arbitrary claims based on God knows what and drawing conclusions from your own flawed analysis.
I'd talk more about this, but you've apparently peaced out of this thread. I just don't want people taking this horrible line of thinking as a reasonable interpretation of what's going on with the blooming SC2 competitive scene.
Alright. I guess I have had too much to drink. I don't mean to be one of those assholes that says they are leaving and then not leaving, even though I guess it's too late for that. I will not make another post in this thread, ban me if I do please thank you.
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
SC1 and SC2 are totally different game. if you don't pass courage in SC1 absolutely doen't mean than you won't pass the top 32 in GSL.
That's my point exactly. Less skill in progames = less skills necessary to win = less enjoyment from watching.
None of what you're saying seems to have a strong underlying logical foundation. You're leaping around making arbitrary claims based on God knows what and drawing conclusions from your own flawed analysis.
I'd talk more about this, but you've apparently peaced out of this thread. I just don't want people taking this horrible line of thinking as a reasonable interpretation of what's going on with the blooming SC2 competitive scene.
Alright. I guess I have had too much to drink. I don't mean to be one of those assholes that says they are leaving and then not leaving, even though I guess it's too late for that. I will not make another post in this thread, ban me if I do please thank you.
Enjoy SC2 everyone!
I'm not saying you should leave, infact I hate when people come into a thread, say their piece and then declare that they're not going to read anything else or participate anymore. I'm not going to ban you for posting in this thread because I'd rather discuss why I think what you're saying is fundamentally flawed as opposed to us just being people on soapboxes.
shit the competition getting tougher.. Im going for exchange studies and will make a brave attempt in the tournament. Exciting stuff, Good luck Teamliquid!
None of what you're saying seems to have a strong underlying logical foundation. You're leaping around making arbitrary claims based on God knows what and drawing conclusions from your own flawed analysis.
I'd talk more about this, but you've apparently peaced out of this thread. I just don't want people taking this horrible line of thinking as a reasonable interpretation of what's going on with the blooming SC2 competitive scene.
I would say that Starcraft2 requires just as much or even more skill then SC:BW. In SC:BW, skill=apm and micro, a good player is a player who can manage to produce out of 20 barracks at the same time as he is killing lurkers with his giant ball of marines.
Skill in SC2 is creating an amazing tactic, something that I think have been missing from the BW pro scene for quite a while. Everyone knows every strategy and the "new" strategies are just copies of things people did a few years ago.
Sure, reaver/shuttle micro is fun to watch and makes you amazed but so far SC2 has produced games that are more fun to watch in their entirety since so much is up to the tactics.
Comparing players like TLO and Flash is impossible, Flash has practiced everything he does 10k times and never does something without thinking about it for a few weeks. Strategically, Flash is not very skilled. Everything he does he has been taught from previous progamers. TLO is very spontaneous and does things on the fly, he invents new strategies. Tactically, TLO is not as skilled as Flash. His tanks does not always stand in perfect positions, sometimes he does build two infestation pits. Both these players are immensely talented, but in different ways. I have thoroughly enjoyed the SC2 betaphase where in half a year we have seen an evolution of strategies that is about the same as the evolution of BW tactics since NaDa was da shit.
Could you give examples of what you think makes the game easier? Things such as auto-mining and producing out of several buildings at once I can agree with but apart from that?
I already posted in this thread, but again;
LIQUID FIGHTING!!
Perhaps thehandsomenerd.com can design some spacesuits?
TLO will beat Tester every time and win every event he enters. After doing this for a year he will switch to full time protoss, and will still be undefeatable.
funny people crying TL is going for SC2 and not SC1 or saying SC2 is bad less skill etc.. the games been out in release form for not even a month.. TL has some of the top SC2 players, whocares if they aren't top SC1 players, WHO GIVES A SHIT HOW IS THIS RELEVANT!? Also everyone complaining about skill in sc2, save some replays today, and compare those to sc2 replays in a year, it will be vastly different.
You guys are serious about SC2 esports. Cannot say I expected a Liquid team being this focussed and goal-oriented. And everything is happening so fast.
I am very impressed right now, good luck to all of you.
wow this is just too awesome on so many levels. consider my...Mind...Blown! Considering getting one of each of tlaf's products just for being so great in their support of TL.
Awesome, I'll be rooting for you all! I'm glad to see things are starting to happen in the SC2 community, and I really can't wait to see you guys playing live :D:D
I'll be watching every game possible with HayprO! :DD Can't wait for GSL to start, it has potential to be as big as meaningful as the biggest tournaments in SC:BW currently have.
A Liquid player with a StarCraft 2 golden mouse? That would be sick :D
On August 14 2010 02:17 Murderotica wrote: But honestly, does anyone else not see the fault in the fact that people who wouldn't ever pass courage tournament are moving to Korea to play SC2? Not saying that they are not good SC2 players, but the fact that SC2 has such a low skill ceiling that players who would get stomped out by any current registered progamer feel that they are strong enough in this game to invest money into playing SC2 in Korea? WTF. Since when have the fans of progaming been okay with this kind of competitive scene? I guess SC2 is to blame but WTF. W T F. I can't express it any better than this.
SC1 and SC2 are totally different game. if you don't pass courage in SC1 absolutely doen't mean than you won't pass the top 32 in GSL.
That's my point exactly. Less skill in progames = less skills necessary to win = less enjoyment from watching.
Then why are you even posting here? If you don't like SC2, don't watch it. You don't need to continually post in SC2 topics about how you think it's a worse game.
edit: oops, didn't see your last post. in any event, stop doing this please.
Because SC2 is what is dominating the headlines now in terms of current TL (team, admin, and poster) time investment. Therefore it is the direction we are heading it. What I am saying is we are jumping head first into this. On the one hand it is not my place to judge people for their dreams and aspirations, but on the other hand I am entitled to an opinion (I don't feel like I am inappropriate in my delivery). Like many opinions of a regressive minority in previous times, it is also true that the fight is futile and in the end people will do what they want to do. I said before that I'd not post in SC2 topics but every newspost that reveals more and more intention to devote resources and manpower to it... it feels like it drains my soul a little more. Sorry for bothering people.
P.S. not watching it is not the problem, I already do that. It's seeing the community I've come to appreciate and enjoy changing to something I disagree with.
still honestly not seeing why you are posting then. If you still disagree with the game and the scene, why are you still following? There are so many games that you can follow, why is team-liquid forcing you to like SC2. If you disagree with their move to Korea, it might be the best just to keep it to yourself instead of starting an unneeded shit storm on their glorious parade.
1. I am not starting a "shit-storm." Do you see me cursing people out or arguing blindly? 2. I don't see how my posting this is harming anyone. 3. TL is not "forcing" me to like SC2, not at all. I'm not following either. That's the problem - TL is moving on to something new and different, without showing me why I should like what is happening. 4. I don't disagree with their move to Korea. I disagree with SC2.
If nobody plays or watches SC2 because it "is lower skilled" than SC1, you are not giving the gmae a chance to get to that point at all.
It's like if when SC1 was released, the WC2 players took one look at it and said "pfft, why would I want to watch that lower skilled game".
I'm not saying SC2 will necessarily ever be as hard or developed as SC1, but if we don't give it a chance we'll never know.
There's one thing I'm sort of concerned about (sorry for being a downer):
How do you know the koreans will really practice with you guys? I'm worried that the OGS guys will just keep doing their routine, leaving you guys out. I'm bring this up because Ret said he was just playing Iccup all day when he was at the Estro house...
Other than that, this is great! Good luck, I really hope you do well!
On August 14 2010 05:09 B1nary wrote: There's one thing I'm sort of concerned about (sorry for being a downer):
How do you know the koreans will really practice with you guys? I'm worried that the OGS guys will just keep doing their routine, leaving you guys out. I'm bring this up because Ret said he was just playing Iccup all day when he was at the Estro house...
Other than that, this is great! Good luck, I really hope you do well!
Well, they have each other to play against if that were to happen. The thing with ret was that he was a b-teamer. The a-teamers didn't want to waste time practicing against him and the other b-teamers were busy trying to become good, playing versus a player that you can't understand means no strategy talk etc.
When liquid are moving to Korea, they do so as one of the best teams in the world. Jinro, TLO, Nazgul and Haypro are so good that oGs will want to practice against them since they themselves have something to gain from it.
TEAM LIQUID FIGHTING! Do your best guys, we will support you 110%! Hope there is going to be lots and lots of coverage on this, will read every word of it! GL in Korea!
On August 14 2010 03:46 BroOd wrote: I'm not going to ban you for posting in this thread because I'd rather discuss why I think what you're saying is fundamentally flawed as opposed to us just being people on soapboxes.
Since this discussion has yet to continue, and I think it should, I'm going to toss in my two cents, which I expect will be similar to what BroOd might have said.
Murderotica notes that our beloved Liquid boys are not on the same skill level as current Korean Brood War pros. He suggests that their going to Korea takes SC2 esports in the wrong direction. I must disagree quite strongly.
As SC2 is only at its beginning the only direction it can go is up, and it makes little sense to compare the skill level of players who practice a long-established game in team houses to players who have only had several months of beta to train for a brand new game. Yet in only a few short months, this group of Liquid players have shown some of the best skill SC2 has seen so far. They often go toe to toe with the likes of Tester and IdrA, Brood War pros trying their hand at SC2.
In regards to the lower skill cap of SC2, nobody claims to have bumped their head on it yet. The future will tell how good SC2 the game is relative to Brood War, and the present sends some of the best SC2 players to Korea to train as the Brood War pros train, with Brood War pros.
This move by Liquid can be only celebrated as an extremely promising beginning, not dismissed as a disappointing turn of events. It is likely that years from now if SC2 lives up to Brood War (and perhaps not only in Korea), we will look back at players like our Liquid boys and their oGs training partners and credit them with starting it all.
I hope this turns into a permanent foreign team in Korea. With the game just beginning to be figured out, you guys really have a chance at being the best team out there.
Is there any way to support the team, by donations perhaps? I think there are a lot of people who would be willing to help out to ensure the future of this project!
On August 14 2010 05:53 trullis wrote: Is there any way to support the team, by donations perhaps? I think there are a lot of people who would be willing to help out to ensure the future of this project!
Buying stuff from their sponsor would be a great way to start.
TeamLiquid is the reason I know about pro starcraft. If it wasn't for you guys, I never would've gained the aspirations to start becoming a progamer. This is really awesome for you guys, and it makes me glad to know you will be competing against the best in Korea. Good luck fellow nerds!
Great News, i look forward to a lot of great articles, photos, sight seeing tours and of course games games games. I hope you all can find what your looking for in Korea. gl hf and GG
This is crazy good news! And I hope it's still only the beginning of way more to come!
edit: I'm so happy in particular for TLO! I've thought so many times: "This guy should be in Korea, practicing with the other progamers" - I wished to see it happen, and it happened!
The Little App Factory - you guys, you guys are going to be hailed by this community, I can guarantee you that.
This is the most exciting day for SC2 so far. GOM must be very happy now. I think the amount of foreign viewers for GSL will be ten times higher with two foreigners playing in it.
You do realize it was players like Giyom, Elky and Nazgul that helped raise the bar when BW Pro Gaming took off? This is a similar scenario. Right now, it is anyone's game. These guys played vigorous during the beta and had good results. I expect the same during the GSL. Not to say others won't rise up to the occasion because they will. Like FA/Jinro said you got to give it a shot in the arm. No one is arguing which is a more competitive game. It's nice to see good news like this every once in a while. Cheer up.
Hell Yeah TLAF 'Liquid, it just got real. Best of luck, and don't worry about it any, just be as amazing as we already know you are and at the end of the day everything will be great.
actually, even though its incredible awesome having TL go to korea. I am sad to hear that TLO is not going to play in the german EPS for SC2. Isn't there a way for TLO to still a way to compete? Are all EPS events offline? Even before the playoffs?
Edit: Nevermind.
Since TLO is, due to his relocation, not allowed to take part at the long-awaited, first EPS-season in Germany their will be a Last-Minute-Qualifier in order to find someone to fill the gap.
German (for TLO) Auch wenn du es vermutlich nicht lesen wirst Dario: Wow - herzlichen Glückwunsch! Viel Glück in Korea - ich beneide dich. Zwar nicht um dein SC Können (wo du eh Lichtjahre entfernt bist), aber um die Möglichkeit in Korea zu leben. Tolles Land in meinen Augen.
English (for everyone): This is AWESOME. Good Luck! And try to enjoy your stay (and I hope it'll last a loooooong time!)
Hm I have a two questions: 1. Will Nazgul actually play (and participate in GSL)? Or is he just kind of managing the whole thing? Because that's how it sounds in the article. 2. Since you guys are not joining oGs I guess you're not bound to their training schedule unlike IdrA on CJ. True?
this is great, not only for the liquid team but starcraft 2 in general. excellent stuff!!! <3 the progress the liquid clan is making and the amount of strides that it is taking.
Congrats Dudes, and Gl over there. However i just want to state that i find it most impressive you'll be on, be in the same house with Ogs. Those guys are just sick players. Both teams should improve greatly from this.
Despite being a Korean gamer I haven't followed Brood War and only started following SC2 since release. But I know TLO from his Supreme Commander replays, and I'm excited to know that he's coming to Korea.
Best of luck to all of you, and know that you have at least one native supporter here.
Holy shit! This is flippin awesome, when can I buy a sweet tlaf jersey to match my hwaseung jersey? I know there's a fashion designer on this website somewhere, make it happen.
I would just like to express my pride for TLAF-Liquid'. Honestly, I'm so damn happy for them, simply for putting their amazing talent to use, and for chasing their dreams. Going to Korea at such a transitional time in life (as far as looking for a career and deciding what to do for the future) takes a lot of guts, and really is an amazing accomplishment in and of itself, and it makes me truly happy to know that these guys are taking advantage of the situation. If any of Team Liquid reads this, I know that you'll look back at your decision many years down the line, and you'll be really happy that you went. Chase those dreams fellas, and know that all of Team Liquid is behind you!
Also, huge thanks to The Little App Factory for making all of this possible - you guys are amazing, and your vision has changed an entire community!
This is just unbelievable. When I joined about 3 years ago I never imagined that this was ever in the cards for TL, I am just stunned. Give em hell guys!
Very smart move, just don't forget to study your Korean too and not just SC2. Learn from the lessons of those foreigners from the SC1 and WC3 eras that have lived in Korea. It's good to see TL taking the initiative for doing something like this first for SC2 so early already.
Also make sure to release tons of replays for the fans supporting you guys!
Oh my god. I am so freaking happy right now. I have a huge smile across my face and all the Japanese tourists in this Turkish Starbucks think I'm crazy but IT'S OK BECAUSE LIQUID IS GOING TO KOREA!!!
Good luck to everyone, both those going and staying/coming later
And to people trying to "judge" SC2's skill level I just laugh. Nobody knows what SC2 will look like even in a few months, not even the best players can predict that. Maybe SC2's Flash, Jaedong and Bisu are just schoolboys at the moment.
TLAF will probably look back at their builds/mechanics from right now and wonder what the hell they were doing :p
On August 14 2010 18:31 Subztance wrote: I've always been a lurker rather than a poster on these forums but I'm using my first post to throw in my support for you guys.
GO TEAM LIQUID!
^this
you guys are awesome and i hope you will have a great time in korea. :D
Haven't checked TL for a couple of days (maybe? trans-pacific flights will fuck all that up) and came back to discover this great news. With oGs and 'Liquid working together I have no doubt where the first star2 bonjwa is coming from. I have never wanted star2 to succeed as an esport more than now. Good luck gentlemen.
This is just amazing news. i cant wait to see how things pan out and like you said maybe some other progammers will be headed over to train with you guys as well. best of luck
It's been a looong time since foreigners have seen big success in Korea (in StarCraft, anyway).
Personally, I only caught the tail end of Elky's run and the small victories of Nazgul and Legionnaire. That was... maybe 5 years ago? After that, it felt like the Koreans just left us all behind.
With a new game and a fresh start (sort of), I'm looking forward to hearing great news about TLAF-Liquid`'s accomplishments. It may be a stretch to hope to see foreigners in the top-4 of a Starleague (or equivalent) again, but just seeing us beating down big-name Koreans on a big stage again, if it happens, would be tremendous.
pretty stoked. i want you guys to kick some ass. your basically representing the world!!!!!!
edit: i feel like im somehow apart of a historical event.. like.. in 10 years time when we are watching games on tv being cast... they will have a doco about korea and the first foreign pro team being Liquid going to korea... !!!!!!
This is great news. GOMTV league is going to be more exciting than I thought! (If that's even possible) I hope more "foreign" teams make this big step into e-sports/SC2. I wish you guys the best of luck in Korea!
I haven't followed the development of sc2 as hardcore as I once did with Broodwar but the dreams of a foreign team existed back then as well.
This is exactly that dream, it's combined with practicing with the best Korean sc2 team. Seriously it's ridicilous, imagine hearing about this in 2008 it would just be a joke. "ToT Mondi, Xiaozi, Haypro moving in with Skt1" ... right.... Just seeing foreigners failing at courage was super exciting and if seeing Nony reaching the finals of his first courage was a 10/10 then what the hell is this? 20/10 isn't even enough to describe it, no this is too good. So here we stand in august 2010 watching the birth of something big. It's real and it's the home of our belowed bw and sc2 community doing it.
I've waited for the day when Team liquid does something so good that the next topic never can top it. I've waited for a long time but the day is here. Teamliquid just became something so much more... From an interceptor of Broodwar A carrier with the sc2 being it's interceptor.
Good luck, take your chance Jinro, TLO, Haypro, Nazgul, Tyler!
Booyaaa liquid´ team will show korea what TL is really made of. The whole team rocks the best of luck to our best.. Jinro, TLO, Haypro, Nazgul, Tyler! Fighting!!!
I talked to a south korean during a clanwar yesterday, and he said that this news somehow woke a lot of nationalist comments in the SK community (maybe plaxp?). He didn't go into detail too much, does anybody have some information about that?
On August 18 2010 18:31 heishe wrote: I talked to a south korean during a clanwar yesterday, and he said that this news somehow woke a lot of nationalist comments in the SK community (maybe plaxp?). He didn't go into detail too much, does anybody have some information about that?
In fact, it's more like self-confidence than nationalism. South Korea has been dominated SC:BW, so many Korean assumes that their superiorty won't change at SC2.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/pachi/front/fp_hc2.jpg)
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Liquid` is proudly sponsored by The Little App Factory, makers of fine applications for Windows and Mac OS X and fans of great Starcraft! Their flagship program, iRip allows you to recover your music from iPods - a life saver if you, like many of us, do tech support for friends and family. In fact, for a limited time, you can use the coupon code TEAMLIQUID to get 25% off when you get TLAF products!
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I'm so pumped for this
GL to Team Liquid` !
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