TeamLiquid.net is proud to present the PokerStrategy.com TSL, an online, community driven StarCraft: Brood War tournament like no other. With big prizes and high drama, the TSL may be the last major opportunity outside Korea for fans of this great game to compete with the best.
Seventeen months ago, Jian Fei Wang rallied from two games behind to win fame, fortune, and the TSL title. This winter, he will finally have a chance to defend it, from our two other TSL seeds Draco and Brat_OK, and from the thirteen other players that survive the grueling TSL qualifiers.
The TSL has returned, and this time, the stakes are higher.
Meet Our Sponsor
This TSL is sponsored by PokerStrategy.com, the world's largest poker school and community. Founded by Dominik "[pG]Korn" Kofert, one of the best old school German StarCraft players, PokerStrategy.com has several former TeamLiquid members on its staff, including former WCG Grand Finals Qualifier Robbie "ToT)Strafe( Verspui and top German Zerg Simon "SoL.Schnibl0r" Münz.
With hundreds of Poker VODs and an assortment of learning material in 18 different languages, PokerStrategy.com offers the chance for aspiring Poker players to learn from a beginner to professional level, built around a cooperative, helpful community.
PokerStrategy.com staff say hello to TeamLiquid from Gibraltar: Simon ‘SoL.Schnibl0r’ Münz, ToT)Strafe(, [pG]Korn and Sergey "Mynock" Potapov.
A few words from their founder, Dominik:
We sponsored the TSL for two reasons, because StarCraft is the best game and it deserves big tournaments, and because we strongly believe that everyone who likes StarCraft should try Poker. It's similar to a challenging RTS, but one where you can win money too.
The best thing about Poker is that it's easier to be successful than StarCraft. You don't have to be one of the top ten non-Koreans. You just have to beat the players at your table. I'm convinced that even someone who only understands StarCraft from a fan's perspective (and is "too slow" to even be C on ICCup) can still become a great poker player. Many big and small names from the StarCraft community now call Poker their hobby, or even their profession.
So we’d be happy if the sponsorship were also a success for our poker community, and would love it if you at least gave PokerStrategy.com a try! For legal reasons, we sadly have to exclude all US citizens/residents from our offers.
But our most important message to the TeamLiquid community is this: enjoy the fantastic TSL – we surely will!
PokerStrategy.com staff will be on TL to answer your questions about their site, their community, and poker in general in the PokerStrategy Q&A Thread
Get Ready!
Due to the WCG Grand Finals, the ladder portion of the TSL qualification will not begin until November 21st. Next weekend we will release more details about the tournament maps and format.
The community is what makes the TSL great. Everything our staff does, from writing news to updating the TLPD, it's all motivated by you guys, the best fan community out there. So follow the qualifiers, watch the VODs, and thank our sponsor. Cheer for your favorite players, talk about it, join the PokerStrategy.com TSL facebook group, and tell your friends to watch. Play Brood War. Most of all, enjoy the tournament.
Damn, I would totally support that site too. I don't see why they're even bothering enforcing that policy, I mean, Full-Tilt just completely ignores it.
Wow, that's a nice heap of cash put up. That should be enough to up the competition to the best level we've ever seen in a foreign tournament. Looking forward to some amazing games (and amazing casts!) GL HF
"Buy your tickets now. Only $1! Enter for a chance to win your very own TSL! Get 11 tickets for $10! TSLs make great gifts for friends and family members. We're giving away hundreds of them so enter today for your chance to win!"
Great news, thanks. I've always liked the connection between poker and Starcraft - poker sharks funding this great event is awesome Too bad the starting capital can't be used in USA, my brother has tried for it
Once again TL proves why they are the greatest site around. Having all my exams between the 23th November and 10th of December does not bode well for my grades
On November 08 2009 14:25 Oystein wrote: Once again TL proves why they are the greatest site around. Having all my exams between the 23th November and 10th of December does not bode well for my grades
I will fly to your icy country of vikings and weird food and slit your throat if your grades are bad.
This is one good chance for all the foreigners trying to prove their worth. Apart from maybe the live national TV coverage, this is as close to the Korean leagues as it can get.
This is going to be amazing. While I have no foolish thoughts of qualifying, I'm definitely going to ladder for the fun of it. Really looking forward to the commentating and the actual games though.
On November 08 2009 14:13 AttackZerg wrote: I am so happy. I will ladder until my winrate drops below 50% for the first time ever!
YOU'RE ALIVE! And holy crap that prize pool is insane. Can hardly wait even for the ladder stage so I can watch people compete for top spots.
dont just watch, be a part of it and compete yourself.
Thats the beauty of this community. This is such a good chance for all those guys who wanted to break a certain letter or wanted to test their true skill level. Such a good motivation for anyone from people who have been d- and been playing for 9 years to finally reach the yellow ranks or the border line c+/b- players to become solid b- players. If your weakness has always been your tvp, zvt, etc take this chance because it might be your last.
Wow huge prize pool, at the end of the article it says that US citizens are excluded from the poker offers... Why? Also, did JianFei say he was making a comeback a fe months ago and that he would start playing again, I remember seeing him a few times and then nothing. Did he stop playing again? And im almost positive that Day[9] will commentate this.
On November 08 2009 14:44 Durak wrote: This is going to be amazing. While I have no foolish thoughts of qualifying, I'm definitely going to ladder for the fun of it. Really looking forward to the commentating and the actual games though.
Edit: Nony, you should play in TSL2.
I really hope Nony plays in this too. Its been a while since he stopped playing after coming back from Korea, but deep down, he is still my favorite non-korean player.
On November 08 2009 14:59 ThunderGod wrote: Thanks pokerstrategy.com !!
Indeed. The prize pool is on par, if not better than WCG for a majority of the top finishers(basically everything except first place, which is the same). Plus we have the benefit of, you know, not being WCG. So the tournament will actually run smoothly.
OH MY GOD fucking awesome. hmm im c- zerg player right now but with a lot of training, a little luck, and an incentive of 10,000 my goal is to at least break B- while going on a hopeless quest to reach Jaedong's level of play in the next month.
Thanks to our sponsor, great to see a starcraft player sponsoring the TSL, definitely glad I'm up at 2am to read this thread! I'm going to train right now!
On November 08 2009 15:42 ibutoss wrote: great news now if only I was good enough to reach the top 16.
like i said before it doesnt really matter. I think the greatest part of tsl ladders is playing with other tl members and competiting with yourself. You're not just watching the sl now. You're actually part of it.
The only way this could be better is if it was broadcast in Korea too. Maybe online through GOM or something similar.
I think an issue with the globalization of e-Sports is that, while everyone knows about the Korean scene, the Koreans know almost nothing about how big the foreign scene is becoming. If they see a big tournament being cast with a prize that's 1/4 the OSL's prize, maybe they can see how seriously we take this too.
On November 08 2009 15:49 scintilliaSD wrote: The only way this could be better is if it was broadcast in Korea too. Maybe online through GOM or something similar.
I think an issue with the globalization of e-Sports is that, while everyone knows about the Korean scene, the Koreans know almost nothing about how big the foreign scene is becoming. If they see a big tournament being cast with a prize that's 1/4 the OSL's prize, maybe they can see how seriously we take this too.
god, I love when something is hyped and then the announcement eclipses the hype, I'm stoked. I think I'm going to have to make a comeback after 5 years to take dead last in the latter stage
...for the first placed one This is some undefineable awesomeness - Teamliquid and Pokerstars - you guys rock!
First Questions: will Chinese players be allowed to participate? What's about the lag issue then? And: three qualification rounds? Holy shit, how many players will be in the group stage then???
Day[9] and his brother Tasteless commentating together...
please please please please
They are so great together, more than the sum of their quite generously endowed parts. Have you guys seen that VOD from a while back when they worked together?? Hilarity.
And especially thanks to Korn and PokerStrategy.com, you guys totally rock ;D
But one thing I would like to ask. Why only 13 qualifiying? Last Time Top64 qualified, that was really cool. Why don't you make the top61 qualifiying? It would be more tense, imho. (It will be awesome nevertheless, but I am only wondering about this fact^^)
P.S. guys, I dont get one thing.. if iccup season ends at 12.01 how we play ladder stage? http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/sc_season.html We play it for 1week then all reset and then we play again,wtf? :D
On November 08 2009 16:56 chrisolo wrote: WOW, nice news. Thank you TeamLiquid
And especially thanks to Korn and PokerStrategy.com, you guys totally rock ;D
But one thing I would like to ask. Why only 13 qualifiying? Last Time Top64 qualified, that was really cool. Why don't you make the top61 qualifiying? It would be more tense, imho. (It will be awesome nevertheless, but I am only wondering about this fact^^)
Anyways GOGO TSL2!!! :D
Uh it was top48 that got through to qualifiers and top 16 into the TSL We haven't announced the number of qualifiers yet, just that the TSL is a 16 man tournament once again.
Thank you teamliquid for organizing this again, Razer TSL was the best fucking league ever. And of course thank you pokerstrategy.com for making this happen.
Awesome but seriously pokerstrategy needs to get rid of this idea that its cool to teach people to shortstack for them so they can generate massive amounts of money for themselves while making the poker games online that much harder to enjoy when half of the table are ratholers that have been educated to rathole efficiently by pokerstrategy.
On November 08 2009 17:23 Puosu wrote: Awesome but seriously pokerstrategy needs to get rid of this idea that its cool to teach people to shortstack for them so they can generate massive amounts of money for themselves while making the poker games online that much harder to enjoy when half of the table are ratholers that have been educated to rathole efficiently by pokerstrategy.
lolololololol
i was wondering when someone from LP would come here to say this Valencian short stackers are no longer just Valencian GG micro stakes
holy shit at that prizepool, that shits ridiculous :O. HUUUUUGE props to pokerstrategy.com... I find it kind of funny that they're sponsering TSL tho when liquidpoker, a rivaling internet poker site, is basically a branch of team liquid, haha.
This has been posted already but not answered. What do you guys plan on doing when the iccup season ends on December 1st? everyones ladder stats will reset, and then what?
On November 08 2009 17:33 eXigent. wrote: This has been posted already but not answered. What do you guys plan on doing when the iccup season ends on December 1st? everyones ladder stats will reset, and then what?
Ha well if it is on iccup.. imagine how full the server will be come Nov 21. Feels like you can almost count in every top foreigner of the last 10 years to participate in this.. man this is crazy!! =D
On November 08 2009 17:33 eXigent. wrote: This has been posted already but not answered. What do you guys plan on doing when the iccup season ends on December 1st? everyones ladder stats will reset, and then what?
this cancel TSL
And the iccup admins will probably message TL "Why so serious?" -_-
On November 08 2009 16:56 chrisolo wrote: WOW, nice news. Thank you TeamLiquid
And especially thanks to Korn and PokerStrategy.com, you guys totally rock ;D
But one thing I would like to ask. Why only 13 qualifiying? Last Time Top64 qualified, that was really cool. Why don't you make the top61 qualifiying? It would be more tense, imho. (It will be awesome nevertheless, but I am only wondering about this fact^^)
Anyways GOGO TSL2!!! :D
Uh it was top48 that got through to qualifiers and top 16 into the TSL We haven't announced the number of qualifiers yet, just that the TSL is a 16 man tournament once again.
Ah yes, my fault. Cool to here that you ll maybe do qualifiers with more participants. This will be the best (foreign) tournament ever.
judging from that video (when you first come to TL) the graphics and animation team seems so much better than the last time. I'ts gonna be great, HELL YEAH !!!!
Poor Draco's girlfriend. I'm sure that after Draco got 3rd in PL WCG she wished Draco would have had a lot more time for her - life begs to differ though -_- But these 10k will make it up for her ^^
WoW! Nice! Looking forward to Draco's revenge... ;>
BTW: some time ago I got banned for posting info about my showmatch sponsored by PokerStrategy because of policy about LiquidPoker as the only poker site which could have been mentioned. I see some changes around here... ;-)
On November 08 2009 14:01 Megalisk wrote: TL.net bot 2 posts..nice..
oh yeah and OMG TSL2!
give it a star!
HER!!!!!* honestea will have your head/
It's truly amazing that you guys who are volunteer staff keep bringing us amazing experiences. here's hoping one day you guys will be recognized ( not just by us) for all the amazing work you have put into this, and all the work that will be put in, in times to come.
The TSL is what pretty much got me into Starcraft. This is going to be awesome! TL OWNS! Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you and thank you again!
Sexyer than Megan Fox doing a striptease! More competative than an ancient Roman gladiator FFA! More awesome than bear cavalry with t-rex in f-14 air support!
Woohoo! Of course the hype video already took the scoop, but seeing this TSL handled professionally and with such a grand price pool, that is fantastic!
Thanks PokerStrategy.com, you bunch of cool people!
edit: And I can't believe it has already been 17 months... gosh
oh mai gawd, ive been waiting for this for so long. I can't believe how much the prize pool is this time around. This really is on par with the korean star leagues!!
The Bot is officially my favourite poster on TL. He always makes great posts.
The pricepool is indeed insane. I think this is gonna be so great both in terms game quality and coverage. I'm gonna do my best to get my D level ass into this tournament. YAAAH!
lol nothing more to say except thanks! Everyone loves these kinda of tournaments, even if you can't get into the top 16 or whatever watching the matches are just as awesome and for these prizes I think were gonna get some GOD DAMN good games.
This is so awesome, splendid, magnificent and overwhelmingly good, it makes me happy. Looking forward to all the great games and such a high price pool will definitely guarantee pretty intense games. Yay! :D
Woho TSL 2! Pokerstrategy is a sick site, I reccommend every newbie pokerplayer to check out their tournament strategy and shit, its a really easy strategy to follow and makes winning very possible, even for noobs like me.
Please don't worry. Information about the ladder, format, and maps, as well as answers to all your questions will be posted in the news announcement on the 15th.
Last night I told at least 20 people to go to pokerstrategy.com at my local cardroom (the lucky derby sunrise and san juan). If you guys have any shirts or posters and would like to advertise for free at my kiosk inside of a mall, let me know I would gladly support you guys.
On November 09 2009 01:43 Musli wrote: I'm hoping for Tasteless/Artosis combo. Although if Artosis manages to qualify (if he's gonna play it at all) it might be a problem.
Good commentators indeed (don't forget chill!). I don't see Dan qualifying though. The competition is going to be steep. If he does I'm sure he'll still commentate anyway considering he's one of the best English commentators we have I'm afraid. Hopefully he stops calling players nerds though. It's getting far too irritating.
Must say this is over my expectation of TSL2! The price pool is insane. Thanks very much Pokerstrategy for that insane price pool. I woulden be suppriced if Tasteless is the comentator for this thing. Would be awesome if thats the case
I wouldn't be surprised if Korean pros wanted to get in on this; if a practice partner or B-teamer heard about it, they could see this as a opportunity for ez-cash.
Wow this is gonna so fucking awesome!!!!!! TSL itself is like a Christmas gift on its own...BUT they also give me a site to help me with poker?!!!! TL... you....are...like... Santa Claus..but realer. haha
On November 09 2009 07:31 Chrispy wrote: Yeah, Teamliquid has to be the most dedicated site ever. Thanks to PokerStrategy, I had to sign up after something like this.
10,000$ for a game that's been out for 10 years. Wow.
On a side note: Which poker site do you guys recommend? Pokerstars or Full tilt?
I had the chance to interview for a position with PokerStrategy at ICANS' (PS' parent company) offices in Germany, had a really good overall impression, the staff I met was real nice and from experience, I can tell people who know what they're doing, these guys were. The PS website itself is quite good for beginners in terms of what you can learn, it has a massive community (in a ton of different languages) and offers good deals with most major rooms as well as a 50$ free bankroll offer, also with many different partner rooms. The business model seems to be working rather well, too!
Glad to see PS is still involved in supporting eSports through such sponsorships (that's how I got to know about Pokerstrategy initially, back when they sponsored PGS, the Polish CS 1.6 Squad) This is massive prize money for a tournament outside of Korea and I hope the quality of the broadcasting will reflect that. Considering the stakes, there won't be another tourney this big for the foreign community before SC2 (I'd love to be proven wrong, but it seems rather unlikely).
but I hate to say anything negative about the site that's sponsoring an amazing tournament from the best Starcraft site on the world but what the fuck?
After reading up on this site it's pretty obvious the whole site is essentially scam to get you to constantly revisit their site to boost their traffic ratings enormously, to learn to follow their shortstacking strategy EXACTLY to pass their quiz in hopes of receiving $150, which they conveniently don't mention doesn't work for US players and more importantly probably requires you to grind out $500+ through rake to unlock, and doing this through shortstacking could take months for above average players and will never happen for your average poker player.
I mean I don't have much more than that to say, a mod can delete my post if they feel it's inappropriate since they're the sponsor, or I'm making incorrect assumptions.
On November 09 2009 01:43 Musli wrote: I'm hoping for Tasteless/Artosis combo. Although if Artosis manages to qualify (if he's gonna play it at all) it might be a problem.
Good commentators indeed (don't forget chill!). I don't see Dan qualifying though. The competition is going to be steep. If he does I'm sure he'll still commentate anyway considering he's one of the best English commentators we have I'm afraid. Hopefully he stops calling players nerds though. It's getting far too irritating.
Artosis qualified for the previous TSL, he got knocked out in the ro48 though. and im sure he can qualify this time too
On November 09 2009 15:24 OmgIRok wrote: i think we need a poll for which duo to cast TSL
Day9/Chill/Artosis any duo no question. Heck you can pick any random person who can speak comprehensible english and hell be a good support with artosis/day9. The only problem is if Artosis/day9 actually manage to make it to the ro16 which is slightly unlikely but still plausibility. Artosis is also ideal because of his knowledge and activity in the foreign scene since forever.
This is very nice for SC:bw community! And I belive with prize pool Artosis and day9 will at least try to get some piece of this cake so they will not be able to cast, not at least till later stages..
On November 09 2009 11:45 PokePill wrote: Wow that is a crap load of money lol
but I hate to say anything negative about the site that's sponsoring an amazing tournament from the best Starcraft site on the world but what the fuck?
After reading up on this site it's pretty obvious the whole site is essentially scam to get you to constantly revisit their site to boost their traffic ratings enormously, to learn to follow their shortstacking strategy EXACTLY to pass their quiz in hopes of receiving $150, which they conveniently don't mention doesn't work for US players and more importantly probably requires you to grind out $500+ through rake to unlock, and doing this through shortstacking could take months for above average players and will never happen for your average poker player.
I mean I don't have much more than that to say, a mod can delete my post if they feel it's inappropriate since they're the sponsor, or I'm making incorrect assumptions.
I think people will be posting their success or fail stories 2 months later.
On November 09 2009 11:45 PokePill wrote: but I hate to say anything negative about the site that's sponsoring an amazing tournament from the best Starcraft site on the world but what the fuck?
After reading up on this site it's pretty obvious the whole site is essentially scam to get you to constantly revisit their site to boost their traffic ratings enormously,
Haha, did you read that on 2+2?
It's more like the 2+2 guys (MM & TT especially) cannot stand that a European site overtook them in terms of traffic as a poker community/info site.
But you know why we did? - multilingual instead of just relaxing on English. - actively trying to produce worthy educational stuff such as videos, articles, live-coachings etc - of course to make people come back, but that's what even TL does exactly by being a good site.
to learn to follow their shortstacking strategy EXACTLY to pass their quiz in hopes of receiving $150, which they conveniently don't mention doesn't work for US players and more importantly probably requires you to grind out $500+ through rake to unlock,
1. we do not offer only short stack strategy. A lot of our beginners start on Fixed Limit or SNGs.
2. Of course we need to teach beginners to stick to the strategy, as they want to survive and not deposit own money. Later on, we actively incentivize them to question everything and discuss their hands & strategies with others.
3. You do not need $500 at all to unlock it. You can keep your winnings in any case, and for the unlocking of the initial $50 [e.g. to cash not only your winnings out, but also the initial $50] you need to play actively, but far from $500 rake.
On November 09 2009 11:08 3 Lions wrote: I'm sure it's gonna be a Ret vs Idra final if possible (which would be great)
<3 TL this is so great
Don't underestimate the motivational power of 10k. Players such as JF and Draco always play extremely well when money is on the line. Maybe Dreiven won't make it big because it is too cold to BBQ outside but others who are not dependant on steroids such as beer will definitely make a big impact. =)
On November 09 2009 11:45 PokePill wrote: Wow that is a crap load of money lol
but I hate to say anything negative about the site that's sponsoring an amazing tournament from the best Starcraft site on the world but what the fuck?
After reading up on this site it's pretty obvious the whole site is essentially scam to get you to constantly revisit their site to boost their traffic ratings enormously, to learn to follow their shortstacking strategy EXACTLY to pass their quiz in hopes of receiving $150, which they conveniently don't mention doesn't work for US players and more importantly probably requires you to grind out $500+ through rake to unlock, and doing this through shortstacking could take months for above average players and will never happen for your average poker player.
I mean I don't have much more than that to say, a mod can delete my post if they feel it's inappropriate since they're the sponsor, or I'm making incorrect assumptions.
Also I'm thinking about the fact that a big part of TL:s user base are underaged kids who shouldn't be exposed to gambling for real money imo. There are some moral issues here that no one is interested in.
But on the other hand, I don't really give a fuck. This is great!
On November 09 2009 11:45 PokePill wrote: Wow that is a crap load of money lol
but I hate to say anything negative about the site that's sponsoring an amazing tournament from the best Starcraft site on the world but what the fuck?
After reading up on this site it's pretty obvious the whole site is essentially scam to get you to constantly revisit their site to boost their traffic ratings enormously, to learn to follow their shortstacking strategy EXACTLY to pass their quiz in hopes of receiving $150, which they conveniently don't mention doesn't work for US players and more importantly probably requires you to grind out $500+ through rake to unlock, and doing this through shortstacking could take months for above average players and will never happen for your average poker player.
I mean I don't have much more than that to say, a mod can delete my post if they feel it's inappropriate since they're the sponsor, or I'm making incorrect assumptions.
Also I'm thinking about the fact that a big part of TL:s user base are underaged kids who shouldn't be exposed to gambling for real money imo. There are some moral issues here that no one is interested in.
You have to be 18 to qualify for an account at PokerStrategy.com.
On November 09 2009 11:45 PokePill wrote: Wow that is a crap load of money lol
but I hate to say anything negative about the site that's sponsoring an amazing tournament from the best Starcraft site on the world but what the fuck?
After reading up on this site it's pretty obvious the whole site is essentially scam to get you to constantly revisit their site to boost their traffic ratings enormously, to learn to follow their shortstacking strategy EXACTLY to pass their quiz in hopes of receiving $150, which they conveniently don't mention doesn't work for US players and more importantly probably requires you to grind out $500+ through rake to unlock, and doing this through shortstacking could take months for above average players and will never happen for your average poker player.
I mean I don't have much more than that to say, a mod can delete my post if they feel it's inappropriate since they're the sponsor, or I'm making incorrect assumptions.
Also I'm thinking about the fact that a big part of TL:s user base are underaged kids who shouldn't be exposed to gambling for real money imo. There are some moral issues here that no one is interested in.
On November 09 2009 11:45 PokePill wrote: Wow that is a crap load of money lol
but I hate to say anything negative about the site that's sponsoring an amazing tournament from the best Starcraft site on the world but what the fuck?
After reading up on this site it's pretty obvious the whole site is essentially scam to get you to constantly revisit their site to boost their traffic ratings enormously, to learn to follow their shortstacking strategy EXACTLY to pass their quiz in hopes of receiving $150, which they conveniently don't mention doesn't work for US players and more importantly probably requires you to grind out $500+ through rake to unlock, and doing this through shortstacking could take months for above average players and will never happen for your average poker player.
I mean I don't have much more than that to say, a mod can delete my post if they feel it's inappropriate since they're the sponsor, or I'm making incorrect assumptions.
Also I'm thinking about the fact that a big part of TL:s user base are underaged kids who shouldn't be exposed to gambling for real money imo. There are some moral issues here that no one is interested in.
But on the other hand, I don't really give a fuck. This is great!
I have no clue about TL.net's userbase, but teaching all the C+ players or better to not shortstack but play perfect LAG poker is a scary thought that crossed my mind.
On November 09 2009 11:45 PokePill wrote: Wow that is a crap load of money lol
but I hate to say anything negative about the site that's sponsoring an amazing tournament from the best Starcraft site on the world but what the fuck?
After reading up on this site it's pretty obvious the whole site is essentially scam to get you to constantly revisit their site to boost their traffic ratings enormously, to learn to follow their shortstacking strategy EXACTLY to pass their quiz in hopes of receiving $150, which they conveniently don't mention doesn't work for US players and more importantly probably requires you to grind out $500+ through rake to unlock, and doing this through shortstacking could take months for above average players and will never happen for your average poker player.
I mean I don't have much more than that to say, a mod can delete my post if they feel it's inappropriate since they're the sponsor, or I'm making incorrect assumptions.
Also I'm thinking about the fact that a big part of TL:s user base are underaged kids who shouldn't be exposed to gambling for real money imo. There are some moral issues here that no one is interested in.
Most of Tl is over the age of 18 tbh.
Yeah I guess most are nowadays. It's not really an issue, it just popped into my mind
On November 09 2009 22:53 JWD wrote: You have to be 18 to qualify for an account at PokerStrategy.com.
Oh alright then, my bad. Btw do PS, Full tilt poker etc have an 18-year limit?
Also I'm thinking about the fact that a big part of TL:s user base are underaged kids who shouldn't be exposed to gambling for real money imo. There are some moral issues here that no one is interested in.
plenty of people under 18 who fanned the facebook page for the event, but regardless, the 18 and older requirement and the no US policy takes care of that anyways, right?
grobo Sweden. November 10 2009 07:40. Posts 3742 Nongmin's gonna rollllllllllllllllllll his way through this (assuming he's allowed to play lol)
Because other possible players like pj, ret, idra, draco, and nony have no chance right?
that's right cause nongmin is way better than all of them! he's the bestest ever!
I say this in half-jest since i actually do think nongmin is on par with, if not better than idra and ret. I'd say he's the favorite to win it, if he is actually going to play.
I've seen Nongmin's stream, and his early game spamming is so bad. I was not impressed at all. Based on that, he wouldn't stand a chance against Idra or Ret.
On November 10 2009 17:12 Holgerius wrote: I've seen Nongmin's stream, and his early game spamming is so bad. I was not impressed at all. Based on that, he wouldn't stand a chance against Idra or Ret.
I know for a fact that he has already beaten Ret, don't know about Idra though, i seem to recall nongmin playing him though..
On November 10 2009 17:12 Holgerius wrote: I've seen Nongmin's stream, and his early game spamming is so bad. I was not impressed at all. Based on that, he wouldn't stand a chance against Idra or Ret.
On November 10 2009 17:12 Holgerius wrote: I've seen Nongmin's stream, and his early game spamming is so bad. I was not impressed at all. Based on that, he wouldn't stand a chance against Idra or Ret.
Your basing your assumption in "early game spamming" ... just LOL I´ve seen him playing and the guy is skilled as hell, awesome mechanincs. And he´s been in the A rank more than idra and ret have... not saying that he will beat any foreigner 100%, but don´t underestimate him because u're not impressed by his "early game spamming".. LOL again
On November 10 2009 14:53 oBlade wrote: How is the ladder going to start Nov 21 and go to Dec 13 when the iCCup season ends Dec 1 ?
They're figuring it out. It's not for you to worry about.
I was just curious (because iCCup still had the season ending on the 1st, and I didn't know whether they would prolong that for the TSL, so it looked like something could have slipped through the cracks). Transparency isn't a bad thing, after all.
nongmin has A rank and blah blah...but I don't think he will come close to winning this if he can play, and I also don't think he is really anywhere near the same skill as, say, idra. That's my opinion, but I'd still love to see him play as well, to see how it goes.
My impression of people who think nongmin is a god is that they are all noobs. The few times I watched his livestream it was just irritating to see the ingratiating cocksucking from all the people who had no idea what was going on. He played one game vs Jianfei on ICC that I watched live and everyone in the channel was just ranting about how nongmin was raping JF and blah blah and wow he's so good, then suddenly JF busted out a bunch of sairs and dt into a huge 200/200 army and rolled nongmin's 5 base ultraling eco in one push. This was extremely obvious, it was clear it was going to happen, yet every single person in teh channel was just jizzing all over themselves at nongmin's insane skillz and how he had 4 mining bases to JF's 2 mining bases. What JF was doing seemed pretty clear to me and I was just an observer. The game was just pure standard zvp, yet apparently when it's shown from FPV instead of regular obs view like in a progame people just lose their shit hardcore, or have no idea what the hell is happening. Or something. Or maybe there were just 150 D+ players in there, which is probably most accurate.
Not saying he's not good. Obviously he's really good. Way better than me. But I think that he is kind of overhyped and that he isn't going to just tear through all the foreign players like some people think.
On November 11 2009 08:21 Ganfei wrote: nongmin has A rank and blah blah...but I don't think he will come close to winning this if he can play
As far as i know there is not a single foreigner in the A ranks with a 72% winratio without having dodged half of the ladder, i'd say his chances are more than good. Now obviously he's losing games once in a while, but he usually comes out ahead of the foreigners he has played, like draco for example where he's like 4-1 or something vs him.
Saying that he won't even get close to winning is just as ridiculous as the rabid nongmin fanboys saying he's gonna mdk the entire tournament.
i am thoroughly excited for TSL2. i remember the excitement during the ladder stage of the first TSL, especially during the last few days when ranks were still shifting up and down
On November 10 2009 14:53 oBlade wrote: How is the ladder going to start Nov 21 and go to Dec 13 when the iCCup season ends Dec 1 ?
They're figuring it out. It's not for you to worry about.
I was just curious (because iCCup still had the season ending on the 1st, and I didn't know whether they would prolong that for the TSL, so it looked like something could have slipped through the cracks). Transparency isn't a bad thing, after all.
It had been posted at least 5 times in this thread and acknowledged. I was sick of seeing it repeated as if the admins didn't know about. I'm glad Hot_Bid cleared that up.
On November 11 2009 08:21 Ganfei wrote: nongmin has A rank and blah blah...but I don't think he will come close to winning this if he can play
As far as i know there is not a single foreigner in the A ranks with a 72% winratio without having dodged half of the ladder, i'd say his chances are more than good. Now obviously he's losing games once in a while, but he usually comes out ahead of the foreigners he has played, like draco for example where he's like 4-1 or something vs him.
Saying that he won't even get close to winning is just as ridiculous as the rabid nongmin fanboys saying he's gonna mdk the entire tournament.
This...
Because there are a bunch of foreigners that are A ranked... >.> genius.
On November 11 2009 11:30 JoMal wrote: FT.aCt)LOve was allowed to play last time right ? Isn't he a korean living in the USA ?
Someone said this was VirginTerran aka Assem.
And nongmin is going to rape face if he plays in this. If he'll lose it will probably be a ZvZ, or him TvZing vs ret or SEn or some very good ZvTer. He has crazy mechanics, but he does make some strange decicions in some of his games ( his 5hatch before pool anyone? ) Whether or not that is due to boredom, or not I dont know.
Also nongmin doesnt dodge good koreans ICCUP, and still maintains the best winning ratio against A- and better players, among foreigners
Btw we should show our appreciation for Korn[pG] in the youtube video of him commentating Blackman vs Boxer from WCG 2002. He's been flamed so much there, yet I think the commentating was really entertaining, despite some of his wrong assumptions(the crowd, commentators etc)
TSL2 fighting! Looking really forward to this. Big thank you to everyone involved. + Show Spoiler +
On November 11 2009 11:30 JoMal wrote: FT.aCt)LOve was allowed to play last time right ? Isn't he a korean living in the USA ?
Someone said this was VirginTerran aka Assem.
And nongmin is going to rape face if he plays in this. If he'll lose it will probably be a ZvZ, or him TvZing vs ret or SEn or some very good ZvTer. He has crazy mechanics, but he does make some strange decicions in some of his games ( his 5hatch before pool anyone? ) Whether or not that is due to boredom, or not I dont know.
Also nongmin doesnt dodge good koreans ICCUP, and still maintains the best winning ratio against A- and better players, among foreigners
Btw we should show our appreciation for Korn[pG] in the youtube video of him commentating Blackman vs Boxer from WCG 2002. He's been flamed so much there, yet I think the commentating was really entertaining, despite some of his wrong assumptions(the crowd, commentators etc)
TSL2 fighting! Looking really forward to this. Big thank you to everyone involved. + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNi_vPFYjfQ
Huh? If there was one matchup that he would win vs foreigners then it's definitely zvz.
That's one matchup that has definitely lagged behind among foreigners. (along with TvT)
draco won 1 game of 4 games they played... and how many other foreigners are A rank? a bunch? yeah, i don't think even 10 are A rank (excluding chinese players), and how many have 72% win rates? zero i'm guessing.
This is a response I wrote to Ketomai`s original thread, which was now closed. As such, I am posting the reply here.
I am probably going to sound like a jackass for saying this, but....while I personally am indifferent towards whether Nongmin should participate or not, I can understand why the TL staff made the decision not to allow him into TSL2.
Ketomai, you dismiss Nongmin`s skill level as something trivial. Yet, it is a generally accepted fact that (in most cases) Korean players are a level above their foreign counterparts (for example if a Korean player is C level on ICCup, then a foreigner would have to be B in order to match him). Considering this and the fact that Nongmin is A on iCCup, that alone already makes him superior then the majority of top foreigners. Also, while the fact that Korean players can live off of playing StarCraft certainly contributes to the gap, the fact that SC has a greater mass appeal in Korea then anywhere else (in spite of it`s mainstream fame, SC has more of a niché appeal outside of Korea itself) is the primary reason why Korean players generally fair better then their foreign counterparts.
True, it is not his fault that he is Korean. However, neither is the fault of the Chinese that their goverment wants to control internet traffic, nor is the fault of the other foreigners that they were not born and raised in a society that lives and breaths StarCraft. Yet, TL staff still needs to take these issues into account when organising such an important event, especially since the prize pool makes this the most prestigious foreigner event yet.
No matter what way you slice it, Nongmin is not a foreigner and TSL2 is intended to be a foreigner event. If he was allowed exception, how would that be fair to some of the other Koreans who have contributed to TL like Sea[Shield] and members of eSTRO? And if even they were allowed, then TSL would quickly become what the SC tournament in the WCG Grand Finals is...a competition to see which Korean player would take the gold this time.
Again, I personally am indifferent to whether or not Nongmin gets to participate in TSL2. However, you are trying to imply that this is a simple problem with an easy solution. But it is neither simple nor easy and the TL staff has (at least for now) simply decided on the more safer option.
If you read the original post, skill level has nothing to do with it (and I did not dismiss it at all, in fact I heralded his A level gameplay as "rare"). It's the fact that they have chance in their environment (Korea) with sponsors, competitions, and the like that we are banning koreans. We don't ban koreans because they are good, we ban them because of WHY they're good. Nongmin does not benefit as a "korean" living in America. I feel like a broken record repeating the same thing.
On November 10 2009 17:12 Holgerius wrote: I've seen Nongmin's stream, and his early game spamming is so bad. I was not impressed at all. Based on that, he wouldn't stand a chance against Idra or Ret.
On November 12 2009 09:49 Kennigit wrote: Please don't discuss the nongmin issue in this thread.
Where can we discuss it then ?
Haha, seeing as the other thread was closed and such; sorry for another off-topic post though.
As mentioned in the other thread (which is locked), the staff will make a decision and then release it. Until such a time, it is desired to avoid having lots of idle speculation and inaccurate rumors passed around, not to mention the derailing of other topics. At such a time as the decision is announced, I suspect you will be able to discuss the decision.
On November 12 2009 10:07 HnR)Insane wrote: As mentioned in the other thread (which is locked), the staff will make a decision and then release it. Until such a time, it is desired to avoid having lots of idle speculation and inaccurate rumors passed around, not to mention the derailing of other topics. At such a time as the decision is announced, I suspect you will be able to discuss the decision.
On November 15 2009 10:13 Jonoman92 wrote: I think that info should be coming out soon. It is already Nov. 15th Korean time so I'm hoping they release the map pool sometime soon.
agreed. Maybe they're waiting for it to cross over on the wast coast.
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