On August 05 2009 14:19 Scaramanga wrote:
God this game was good untill everyone decided to stop posting, at least this shows how stupid elemenope is
"COME ON MAN TELL US PEOPLES ROLES AND WHO MAFIA ARE"
"you relise mafia dont know who each other are"
"BUT ITS NOT LIKE THEY'LL RELISE THAT, YOUR SCUM BECAUSE YOU KNOW MAFIA"

lol

This just shows how you don't even read posts.

How the fuck can the named mafia coordinate with the unnamed mafia if they have the whole town PMing them with a mafia role claim?

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 05 2009 09:04 GMT

#1028

On August 05 2009 17:56 Scaramanga wrote:

Show nested quote +

Uhh if ver posts his mafia list then the mafia know each other, are you that dumb that you cant see this?

The 3 mafia.

While we have 1 lynch, and at least 2 vigis. Are you that dumb that you can't see this?

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 05 2009 10:03 GMT

#1031

On August 05 2009 18:58 Scaramanga wrote:
more than 3 yo

On August 03 2009 21:43 Ver wrote:
In addition, 3 more have already been found and will be killed once the vigi's get in touch with me.

Only concerned about these 3. I couldn't care less about any new "mafia" Ver "found".

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 05 2009 20:37 GMT

#1042

Roar

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 05 2009 21:00 GMT

#1044

On August 06 2009 05:41 Caller wrote:

Show nested quote +

Needs 12 sanges.

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 05 2009 21:40 GMT

#1046

On August 06 2009 04:16 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
If you don't believe I am a rebel, I am going to announce my kill later in the day and I assure you that person will die.

Because it's not as if medics exist or anything.

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 06 2009 03:58 GMT

#1048

On August 06 2009 12:39 Chezinu wrote:
When is day post coming up?

I see what you did there.

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 06 2009 05:57 GMT

#1051

He's obviously scum and didn't want to commit suicide day 1.

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 06 2009 14:24 GMT

#1071

On August 06 2009 16:02 Scaramanga wrote:
So ace is killing chezinu the scum? awsome
elemenope is still being stuipd? awsome

OH NO VER SAID SHIKYO IS MAFIA, NOW MAFIA ARE GOING TO RALLY AROUND SHIKYO.

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 06 2009 14:33 GMT

#1073

On August 06 2009 23:32 Scaramanga wrote:

Show nested quote +

Fuck your retarded, stop posting already

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 06 2009 16:00 GMT

#1077

On August 07 2009 00:52 Shikyo wrote:
Seems like I'm getting vigi'd tonight? I guess I'll take this time to say that I don't like this format at all. Even with like 10 modkills, it still feels unbelievably imbalanced, even impossible for rebels.

You can blame Kuja for screwing it up if you'd like. It's quite easy to get the rebels to organize because of what caller did with the PM roles.

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 06 2009 16:07 GMT

#1078

EBWOP: Actually, you guys could've organized before field marshal was even elected. You all only really have yourselves to blame.

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 06 2009 16:33 GMT

#1080

Confirm/Deny: Your role PM matched Kuja's role PM in the IRC conversation Scara posted.

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 06 2009 17:19 GMT

#1089

Ok, look at what Scara did in the IRC conversation.

He posted

Ukrainian Rebel: You are corrupt criminal that is poisoning our country! After Ukrainian Resistance Leader was executed by NKVD, you do not know fellow Ukrainians, nyet nyet nyet! You may do research on one person a night, da, to determine their role, or you may kill one person a night-be warned, you may kill own treacherous scum if you are not careful, da!

which is what is in the original post.

Kuja replied with

Ukrainian Rebel: You are defender of Ukrainian Republic from all those that seek your destruction! You have two abilities, one usable per night: you may kill a person or you may role check them. Be warned, you do not know who the other Ukrainians are! Your job is to reduce the Red Army down to a force that can be dealt with. Find your fellow Ukrainians and coordinate your attacks! Be weary of infiltrators, however!

It's logical to assume that since Kuja is rebel, all rebels received this same PM instead of the one in the original post.

Only one scum just simply had to say at the start before even FM was elected:

I'm a rebel. Our role PMs are different than the original post. PM your role PM if you're rebel and we'll organize. Don't PM anybody else with your role PM.

At the time, no one even suspected that the role PMs were different for rebels. The townspeople would PM the guy with what scara posted while some rebels would PM him with the real role PM.

Ace would've been elected-lynched either Vivi or said self-claiming rebel. Rebel appears as rebel if first day lynched, still organizes the others through PM/other rebels may still PM him the role PM afterwards and they'd still get organized. If Vivi was still lynched, self-claiming rebel kills someone first night (doesn't matter who), links clues to himself. Other rebels PM him with role PM.

In a game where you have no information and you need to find your allies, you can't be passive with your actions. Rolechecking->kill takes too long. The correct course of action would be for one scum to sacrifice himself so that other rebels can band together. You can do this before FM is elected, though first night kill/being first lynch just helps solidify it.

Scum played too passively in this game. Half the town playing the whole PM game doesn't help (for either side), but whatever. This is exactly why I wanted Ver to release names, simply because a) names are released anyway, as shown by Shikyo, Clazz, Kuja, RoL, yet scum still haven't done anything at all that even remotely looks like coordination, and b) it actually would show his stance more. We had nothing to go on other than his word, which in a game of mafia, you are supposed to doubt naturally. Those without role checking abilities (read: everybody but NKVD and rebels) had nothing else to go on from Ver's claims, especially since it was not any new information. Anybody can put a spin on anything that's been said to make themselves look pro-town, and I wouldn't put it past Ver, Ace, L, mbh, Qatol, and multiple others to do so in order to gain town trust and a list of roles. I only trust Ver as of last night due to confirmation by 3 different people. And even then, I'm still tentative about what side one of those people are on. Keeping the town out of the loop only serves to promote appearance of inactivity and true inactiveness. Sure, some townies may not vote because they're townies and die first night. But then there's other townies who do enjoy the game, yet can't truly participate due to people being completely entrenched on playing the PM game. As much as PMs are a strategy, the fact that more and more of these mafia games are becoming more and more PM based and inner-town circles via PM is just annoying. There's quite a distinction between discretion, and completely ignoring the thread in favor of "safe PMs".

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 06 2009 17:21 GMT

#1090

As for as townie coming out as mafia:

what would give any reason for this?

Everybody else's role has been always the same as posted in the first page as pretty much as far back as I can remember.

Yet suddenly, scum PMs are different. Even if a person were to claim, Ace lynches him and becomes confirmed.

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 06 2009 17:30 GMT

#1092

EBWOP: Townie coming out as mafia pretty much assures first lynch regardless. Most people on TL who play this game play to live, not play to win. Only townies I would see pulling something like this off this game would be Ace (who was running for FM), L (who was running for FM), and Ver (who claimed he didn't have enough time for the game, and enjoys playing the whole PM thing a lot). Townies are more interested in self-preservation, as are scum apparently.

Even just saying "I'm rebel, don't PM anybody else your roles, wait until first lynch/my first kill before PMing me your roles" is enough of a deterrent for idiots like Kuja to fall for other people's crap. Oh look, you don't necessarily collaborate before first lynch, but you also prevent others from falling into a trap. After that point, then yes, individual players are to blame; but it isn't that hard to come together. It's just that role-claiming mafia is apparently so outlandish in a game where mafia don't know each other that it isn't given a thought.

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 06 2009 17:49 GMT

#1095

On August 07 2009 02:47 Shikyo wrote:
So if you were a rebel and someone whose role you can't confirm told you to pm him your role, you'd do it? Ok.

Half the town did with Ver.

I said it before: if you're that worried, then wait til after first lynch/first night kill. No rebel wanted to take initiative and that's what caused you all to lose.