Pyrry's Mafia Game - GG - Page 4

On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote:
I don't agree with lynching an inactive the first day. Since this is a newbie friendly game, those with blue roles might be more inclined to stay lurking since they know they have an important role and don't want to die so early. I remember when I was a medic (many times) all I thought about was staying alive so I can at least be able to contribute with protections each night - thus I stayed quiet and only communicated through PMs.

Also, with 30 players we have a much higher chance of lynching a poor blue this time around. I understand that there could be true green inactives, but to randomly pick someone imo is really dangerous. I suggest choosing someone that is both inactive and has somewhat of a clue pointing to that person.

Right now looking at all the platforms Shikyo has the most detailed and from first glance it does make him look the most trustworthy. Although the other candidates boast "experience", to me that really isn't the most important thing. It's the plan that the person comes up with that will attract my vote.

The problem is we really only have 3-4 real candidates running for mayor/sheriff. Shikyo seems like a shoe-in for sheriff with the mayor position up for grabs.

So with that said...

I'm going to be running for Mayor.

I've played in a couple mafia games previously. Didn't really say much or do much, but after much observation I am willing to use all that I understand for the town's benefit.

My plan:
1. Day 1 Lynch - I'd like for the town to vote for the day 1 lynch. Although if I get elected I have the choice, I am willing to let the town decide on who gets the axe day 1. This of course would only work if we collectively or majoritively agree on one person right now before the elections are over.

2. Town web -
a) Vigi Plan
I think Crate brought up a great point about the trouble of getting a confirmed towny. The vigi plan has some flaws though. The vigi can't roleclaim and announce his hit to the whole town because a mafia could just do the same. I noticed in the day post that the mafia don't have names. So we wouldn't really know if a new vigi has come out and performed his announced hit.

b) Medic plan
Nowhere does it say that the medic will know the role of the person he has saved. I agree that it is more likely for a medic to save a mafia hit than a vigi hit, but as a medic in previous games myself, it's pretty hard to judge who is going to get hit every night (that or I was a horrible medic lol). Also, in the less likely case of saving a mafia from a vigi - the medic may mistrust the saved mafia for a good guy. In the case that we do not get a successful block, then we should move on to another plan that I am suggesting: plan C.

c) Detective role-check
Depending on how far we get with the medic plan, we might have to consider the ultimatum which is to have a DT rolecheck someone - which would be the safest way, unless you manage to unluckily land on the godfather; then theres no way back. The chance of landing on the godfather is slim though, so I deem this the safest plan and most viable after using trying the medic plan.

If I do get elected, I will get 3 votes. I plan on voting on the basis of behavioural analysis and clues, with clues being 2nd most important (exceptions of course). I will try to share as much as I know with everybody to keep everyone out of the dark. As for the double-lynches, I hope that they will be used as soon as the town web gets rolling.

I hope I have said enough to convince you all to give me a chance, and I promise I will do my best to paint the walls of Fluidville bright red.

(I hope that wasn't bad for my first thread post)

Just realized theres a player named teks in this game - I hope you guys don't mistake me for him, my name is Zeks.

Thanks for reading!

On May 20 2009 01:09 zeks wrote:
For those who haven't read my platform, I would urge you to do so - it is at the top of this page. I want to pose a question to town: once the mayor does get elected today, who would you like to see get lynched? I also want to reiterate that no one should be PMing their roles to the new elected Sheriff and Mayor until further confirmation.

Our activity in this game has been pretty disappointing. The more lurkers there are the more it benefits the reds. Come on out people!

The last 3 pages have pretty much been arguing about elections, and we've seem to forget about our first day clues (however vague they may be). I'll try to get some clue analysis done by the end of elections.

Anyways I've come up with the inactive list:

Posted very little:
7. motbob - ran for Sheriff
15. ydg - clue analysis
16. sugiuramidori - clue analysis
19. therapy - talked so he didnt look like an inactive
24. Knutti - didn't really say much, see pg4
26. Koopie - forgot what he said but wasn't too important
29. phelix - didn't really say much, see pg4
30. bwdero - supports killing inactive even if he's blue, minor clue analysis

Never posted:
5. omG.[RaYnE]
6. clazziquai
13. adriix33
18. Ra.Xor.2
31. epicdoom



What about the "eerily crepusclar" clue - with your cat in the profile? Hope you can explain that a little.

On May 20 2009 01:27 zeks wrote:
@BWDero:

Sorry, might have mixed you up with someone else.

On May 20 2009 02:49 zeks wrote:
To be safe I suggest we try to find clues that may point to the inactives so we can have a better shot at hitting a red. I am also supportive if we were to lynch Jayme based on clues.

On May 20 2009 05:07 zeks wrote:
Based on clues: Jayme
Other than that: I choose therapy.

Justification on therapy:
His one post:


The majority of us have agreed to lynch an inactive for first lynch, and the whole purpose of his one post is so that he won't be on the chopping block for this lynch. It is because of this that makes me suspicious of him. He may have posted once, so it looks like he's better than the ones that haven't posted, but I think his post was as good as nothing. Furthermore, his profile has pretty much one thing to relate clues to: the quote: "Let's start a revolution so I can break some shit." I am linking this to the last part of day 1:

This isn't the strongest clue, but the links are:
"break some shit" -> "windshield shattered and a wave of glass..."
"start a revolution" -> "sounding a horn"

So because of those two counts and the majority of us wanting to lynch an inactive, I would thus lynch therapy if I were to be elected mayor.

On May 20 2009 05:27 zeks wrote:
I hope the town will appreciate the information I'm disclosing to you all. I'm willing to share my thoughts publically to keep everyone informed, and I hope to hear opinions from you all on my findings.

A comeback seems improbable now for me, but I hope you all can reconsider me for Mayor. Again my platform is on page 8 if you haven't read it yet.

On May 20 2009 06:25 zeks wrote:
I suggest that as soon as DTs are allowed to act, we should start checking clues on the people who voted for Tudor (making the Tudor list).

I don't necessarily think Tudor is red at this point since I can't connect really any clues to him (I don't understand his quote, and his name is apparently a name of a hockey player), and his actions haven't really been too suspicious.

I'm also not completely 100% sold on JeeJee's alignment, but right now my gut feeling tells me to trust him over Tudor.

The mayor role has quite the big effect with the 3 votes, and in tight voting races it could really sway the result.

From the looks of this JeeJee will become mayor, and I hope you decide to go with the lynch of therapy.

On May 20 2009 06:28 zeks wrote:


If the right clues connect to one of the voters then yes; so I believe my suggestion of checking the voters first should be valid.

We shouldn't be lynching just a random person off the list.

On May 20 2009 07:36 zeks wrote:
I find it suspicious that The_Master is changing his vote to JeeJee after I brought up the fact that we should check clues on the people who vote for JimTudor.

On May 20 2009 11:59 zeks wrote:


There isn't really a "bandwagon" at all. BWDero wanted a name, and I gave him one. Why did JeeJee support the idea of lynching you? Probably because the evidence (however little it may be) seemed convincing enough to him. In terms of inactives and those with clues pointing to them, you're one of the more obvious ones. If you can point out anyone else worth lynching day 1, then please tell everyone (or at least convince JeeJee/Shikyo) that you're worth living, rather than giving up so easily this early in the game.

On May 20 2009 10:10 The_Master wrote:
Well, Shikyo, I thank you for not being too suspicious of me. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.



















1) The DT would tell me my role.
2) I wouldn't have to disclose who's a DT anyway. I'm willing to act as the DT's mouthpiece and if we nail one then he'll turn red and you can trust me then.
3) Up to you guys to decide.

There is no 100% foolproof plan, there's always a possibility that can fuck everything up. I'm basically playing a game of probabilities.

On May 22 2009 01:30 zeks wrote:
Yep I talked about the possibility of me being GF. That's why you guys have to analyze my behaviour and whether any clues have pointed to me to see whether I'm trustworthy enough up to this point.

I'm not in a hurry in getting this working. We're still in good shape though we lost a bodyguard but at least we don't need to suspect Jim no more, which narrows down the list of potential mafia in the candidates/medic list.

If someone can come up with a surefire plan for day 2, by all means tell us. I'm still not convinced of using the vigi plan for many reasons stated against it.

On May 22 2009 13:04 zeks wrote:


lol pulling an Ace?

Mind to give us a name of someone u want dead?

On May 22 2009 13:38 zeks wrote:
JeeJee it sounds like you have a very extensive database on everyone I was hoping you could have some more justification on l10f.

Foolishness I like your 'no bullshit' attitude.

On May 22 2009 21:43 zeks wrote:


Mafia may want to have a mixed list maybe? Would mafia want to make the whole medic list full of mafia?

On May 22 2009 23:06 zeks wrote:
Because jim was a good enough contributer that he can't simply be ignored to be part of the medic list. Use crate as an example. He's pretty much unanimously agreed upon to be part of the medic list. Mafia have no choice but to put him on their lists. Is he exempt from being hit justbecause he's on a stupid list? Hell no because it'd be more suspicious not to put him on a list when he's done so much. Medic list isn't an immunity list (like JeeJee said). In fact it might be a warning from the mafiathat even the medic list may not be as safe as we think.

On May 22 2009 23:55 zeks wrote:
I never said Jim was a good hit enough to warrant 2 hits - you can try to quote me on it.

I never said it was suspicious for you to put him on the list - you can try to quote me on that too. All I am saying is that the option of a mafia putting Jim on his/her medic list is totally probable.

I never directed anything at you, so I don't know why you're getting so defensive. Read my posts as they are.

On May 23 2009 22:51 zeks wrote:
Town is in utter chaos. Massive finger pointing at almost every suspect possible. Reading things out of context. Drawing implications out of the air from the slightest behaviour changes. All assumptions without any solid evidence. We're basically unable to agree on anything. Someone comes up with a long post and boom I'm now a suspect. But I guess Teks you've done a damn good job on me.

Teks, do you think you're so good that if I were a GF I'd pick people off your list? Your analysis has barely any good content and usually you're just restating other peoples points. Why would a GF kill people you suspect? If anything if I were a GF I'd leave them alive because I know they are green, and if you were town of course you'd be in shit trying to figure out if they're green and I could kill off others.

Why would I think you're a medic? Wouldn't I ask who do you trust rather than who do you suspect? It's true I've been asking about people's suspicions, I won't lie. I asked you guys a question, you answered it. If you asked me a question, I answered it too. Teks you never asked me anything, and you're suspicious so why do I have to keep the PMs going?



Okay, I admit my mistake there. I still disagree with the vigi plan because of how hard it is to orchestrate it. And yes if you were wondering, in past mafia's people had names. No I am not against a confirmed townie, because I suggested the DT-Rolecheck idea, and I listed pros and cons for all 3 ideas.



Here is what I said: Page 8.

I was in support of the medic plan, in fact I wanted that plan first before using my DT-rolecheck plan.




Don't contradict yourself.

As for my pitch for mayor: If I were mafia do you know how dangerous it would be for me to run for mayor that late? First I'd be sticking my head out for suspect and second I'm probably not going to win. If I had pleaded my case for mayor earlier (around when JeeJee or Shikyo did theirs) I think I'd have a legit shot for a spot. I ran for mayor so town can see other options: I never expected to win at all. How could I win when I had my election speech as first post? I wasn't involved until page 8 when things have already boiled up.
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Quotes part 2:



Why don't you find me someone who suggested lynching an inactive AND with clues pointing to them? People were agreeing on me because I came up with the idea, while people like you only thought of lynching based on inactivity OR clues.

I'm placed on all the medic lists because I am trusted by the town. My suggestion for therapy was a reply to BWDero when he wanted a name out there - so I gave him one. And Shikyo was pretty quick to support me without any reason.



Trying to protect Shikyo while attacking me at the same time?



The plan being the medic list?



I didn't lie. I will admit to this mistake that I missed the veteran possibility. If this is enough to warrant me guilty then so be it, but that was just my misunderstanding.



What have chaoser, Judge, Shikyo figured out that I didn't say in my own plan? Do tell. I was the first person to bring up the godfather possibility.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't give a FLAMING FUCK if I'm removed from the medic list. The medic list meant shit from day 1. It's just a stupid list of who posts the most (see the correlation of most posts -> medic list? I do too!). I didn't feel ANY safer than I would be not on the medic list.

If you look at teks arguments with quotes on me, he chooses the stuff he wants to quote, and leaves out the rest because it contradicts his arguments. Read my posts again and you'll see different than what he has posed.



Lol and the cherry on top: the ultimatum to everyone. By the time you get lynched it'd be night 4, and if you are TOWN like you say you are, then we'd probably have hit 0 mafia till then, which is pretty much game over.

What are you trying to pull an iloveKTF? Except you're smarter than him I admit. You're not going to go down that easily right? You're going to "take responsibility" on a failed lynch, rather than requesting a mod kill.

You're just trying to make it seem like you have nothing to lose, putting your life on the line, empathizing with the majority of the town.

That ends my rebuttal for teks. If you want me to cover anything I didn't, by all means feel free to call me out again. I will be following up with my clue analysis later on today or tomorrow, and I assure you, mine will be WAY MORE spectacular than what teks has told you.

On May 23 2009 23:26 zeks wrote:
Now that I've dealt with teks, let's deal with Shikyo's argument deconstruction.




Why were you so quick on lynching therapy? Oh, as I recall, you were the one who dropped the axe on him? No one even slightly challenged my case to lynch therapy. I was hoping for other options to be out there, but no one said anything.

This by all means doesn't mean I'm not taking responsibility for his death.



If the DT rolechecked me I'd only initially be communicating to that one DT.



I agree with you that I haven't been the biggest help lately. But I assure you, and everyone else that it will all change by tonight or tomorrow morning.

was a reply to .





When have I ever pointed a finger at you? When have I even mentioned your name in an analysis? What part of is directed at you, Shikyo? Why do you think I'm talking about you when I say mafia? Stop pulling random implications out of what I'm saying. I've said to "read my posts as they are".



You want to play with "time"? Sure, two can play that game.

May 22 2009 21:43 -

May 22 2009 23:06 -

Do the math, 23:06- 21:43. Less than fucking 2 hours. Sorry if I'm not 24/7 devoted to this game, and a rebuttal less than 2 hours later is not good enough for you. Stop using such backhanded tactics to incriminate me.

I never said Jim was a good hit enough to warrant 2 hits - you can try to quote me on it.

I never said it was suspicious for you to put him on the list - you can try to quote me on that too. All I am saying is that the option of a mafia putting Jim on his/her medic list is totally probable.

I never directed anything at you, so I don't know why you're getting so defensive. Read my posts as they are.





See why are you so stuck up that you think I'm targeting you? I'll repeat it once more. All I said in that exchange was that the option of a mafia putting Jim on his/her medic list is totally probable. Don't make it look like I'm against you now. Although you've built up quite a case on me (or at least had a good attempt to), I'm not going to start going finger-pointing-crazy.

I didn't contribute that much for the night 2 lynch, and I admit my fault. But I assure the town that after you read my analysis that I will have for tonight (12 hours) tomorrow (24 hours) there will be no doubt of my contributions.

If anyone wants me to clarify anything I've said I'm very willing to now as I am now forced into a defensive position.

On May 23 2009 23:30 zeks wrote:
Btw, Shikyo and teks you're both from europe and I'm from Canada, so if I'm not active when you're not active please understand that I'm in a totally different timezone.

As for the medic list tonight, I have no comments about how you medics are going to use it for your guidelines of protection, but I believe this is a very important article that should be posted again.

On May 24 2009 00:18 zeks wrote:
Edit: I made a formatting error on the rebuttal of Shikyo (quoted something twice)

On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote:
I don't agree with lynching an inactive the first day. Since this is a newbie friendly game, those with blue roles might be more inclined to stay lurking since they know they have an important role and don't want to die so early. I remember when I was a medic (many times) all I thought about was staying alive so I can at least be able to contribute with protections each night - thus I stayed quiet and only communicated through PMs.

Also, with 30 players we have a much higher chance of lynching a poor blue this time around. I understand that there could be true green inactives, but to randomly pick someone imo is really dangerous. I suggest choosing someone that is both inactive and has somewhat of a clue pointing to that person.

Right now looking at all the platforms Shikyo has the most detailed and from first glance it does make him look the most trustworthy. Although the other candidates boast "experience", to me that really isn't the most important thing. It's the plan that the person comes up with that will attract my vote.

The problem is we really only have 3-4 real candidates running for mayor/sheriff. Shikyo seems like a shoe-in for sheriff with the mayor position up for grabs.

So with that said...

I'm going to be running for Mayor.

I've played in a couple mafia games previously. Didn't really say much or do much, but after much observation I am willing to use all that I understand for the town's benefit.

My plan:
1. Day 1 Lynch - I'd like for the town to vote for the day 1 lynch. Although if I get elected I have the choice, I am willing to let the town decide on who gets the axe day 1. This of course would only work if we collectively or majoritively agree on one person right now before the elections are over.

2. Town web -
a) Vigi Plan
I think Crate brought up a great point about the trouble of getting a confirmed towny. The vigi plan has some flaws though. The vigi can't roleclaim and announce his hit to the whole town because a mafia could just do the same. I noticed in the day post that the mafia don't have names. So we wouldn't really know if a new vigi has come out and performed his announced hit.

b) Medic plan
Nowhere does it say that the medic will know the role of the person he has saved. I agree that it is more likely for a medic to save a mafia hit than a vigi hit, but as a medic in previous games myself, it's pretty hard to judge who is going to get hit every night (that or I was a horrible medic lol). Also, in the less likely case of saving a mafia from a vigi - the medic may mistrust the saved mafia for a good guy. In the case that we do not get a successful block, then we should move on to another plan that I am suggesting: plan C.

c) Detective role-check
Depending on how far we get with the medic plan, we might have to consider the ultimatum which is to have a DT rolecheck someone - which would be the safest way, unless you manage to unluckily land on the godfather; then theres no way back. The chance of landing on the godfather is slim though, so I deem this the safest plan and most viable after using trying the medic plan.

If I do get elected, I will get 3 votes. I plan on voting on the basis of behavioural analysis and clues, with clues being 2nd most important (exceptions of course). I will try to share as much as I know with everybody to keep everyone out of the dark. As for the double-lynches, I hope that they will be used as soon as the town web gets rolling.

I hope I have said enough to convince you all to give me a chance, and I promise I will do my best to paint the walls of Fluidville bright red.

(I hope that wasn't bad for my first thread post)

Just realized theres a player named teks in this game - I hope you guys don't mistake me for him, my name is Zeks.

Thanks for reading!

On May 20 2009 01:09 zeks wrote:
For those who haven't read my platform, I would urge you to do so - it is at the top of this page. I want to pose a question to town: once the mayor does get elected today, who would you like to see get lynched? I also want to reiterate that no one should be PMing their roles to the new elected Sheriff and Mayor until further confirmation.

Our activity in this game has been pretty disappointing. The more lurkers there are the more it benefits the reds. Come on out people!

The last 3 pages have pretty much been arguing about elections, and we've seem to forget about our first day clues (however vague they may be). I'll try to get some clue analysis done by the end of elections.

Anyways I've come up with the inactive list:

Posted very little:
7. motbob - ran for Sheriff
15. ydg - clue analysis
16. sugiuramidori - clue analysis
19. therapy - talked so he didnt look like an inactive
24. Knutti - didn't really say much, see pg4
26. Koopie - forgot what he said but wasn't too important
29. phelix - didn't really say much, see pg4
30. bwdero - supports killing inactive even if he's blue, minor clue analysis

Never posted:
5. omG.[RaYnE]
6. clazziquai
13. adriix33
18. Ra.Xor.2
31. epicdoom



What about the "eerily crepusclar" clue - with your cat in the profile? Hope you can explain that a little.

On May 20 2009 01:27 zeks wrote:
@BWDero:

Sorry, might have mixed you up with someone else.

On May 20 2009 02:49 zeks wrote:
To be safe I suggest we try to find clues that may point to the inactives so we can have a better shot at hitting a red. I am also supportive if we were to lynch Jayme based on clues.

On May 20 2009 05:07 zeks wrote:
Based on clues: Jayme
Other than that: I choose therapy.

Justification on therapy:
His one post:


The majority of us have agreed to lynch an inactive for first lynch, and the whole purpose of his one post is so that he won't be on the chopping block for this lynch. It is because of this that makes me suspicious of him. He may have posted once, so it looks like he's better than the ones that haven't posted, but I think his post was as good as nothing. Furthermore, his profile has pretty much one thing to relate clues to: the quote: "Let's start a revolution so I can break some shit." I am linking this to the last part of day 1:

This isn't the strongest clue, but the links are:
"break some shit" -> "windshield shattered and a wave of glass..."
"start a revolution" -> "sounding a horn"

So because of those two counts and the majority of us wanting to lynch an inactive, I would thus lynch therapy if I were to be elected mayor.

On May 20 2009 05:27 zeks wrote:
I hope the town will appreciate the information I'm disclosing to you all. I'm willing to share my thoughts publically to keep everyone informed, and I hope to hear opinions from you all on my findings.

A comeback seems improbable now for me, but I hope you all can reconsider me for Mayor. Again my platform is on page 8 if you haven't read it yet.

On May 20 2009 06:25 zeks wrote:
I suggest that as soon as DTs are allowed to act, we should start checking clues on the people who voted for Tudor (making the Tudor list).

I don't necessarily think Tudor is red at this point since I can't connect really any clues to him (I don't understand his quote, and his name is apparently a name of a hockey player), and his actions haven't really been too suspicious.

I'm also not completely 100% sold on JeeJee's alignment, but right now my gut feeling tells me to trust him over Tudor.

The mayor role has quite the big effect with the 3 votes, and in tight voting races it could really sway the result.

From the looks of this JeeJee will become mayor, and I hope you decide to go with the lynch of therapy.

On May 20 2009 06:28 zeks wrote:


If the right clues connect to one of the voters then yes; so I believe my suggestion of checking the voters first should be valid.

We shouldn't be lynching just a random person off the list.

On May 20 2009 07:36 zeks wrote:
I find it suspicious that The_Master is changing his vote to JeeJee after I brought up the fact that we should check clues on the people who vote for JimTudor.

On May 20 2009 11:59 zeks wrote:


There isn't really a "bandwagon" at all. BWDero wanted a name, and I gave him one. Why did JeeJee support the idea of lynching you? Probably because the evidence (however little it may be) seemed convincing enough to him. In terms of inactives and those with clues pointing to them, you're one of the more obvious ones. If you can point out anyone else worth lynching day 1, then please tell everyone (or at least convince JeeJee/Shikyo) that you're worth living, rather than giving up so easily this early in the game.



Fair enough, your defense sounds good. But why are you assuming that the mafia are more experienced than you?

On May 20 2009 07:36 zeks wrote:
I find it suspicious that The_Master is changing his vote to JeeJee after I brought up the fact that we should check clues on the people who vote for JimTudor.

On May 20 2009 12:31 zeks wrote:
There is no lynching vote, mayor gets the lynch

I read the rules and I never found anything about ties and what would happen - but most of you say its last vote = Sheriff so I suppose Shikyo is now Mayor. Shikyo probably already sent in his lynch.

On May 20 2009 12:33 zeks wrote:
Oops obviously I didn't read the rules well enough doh!

Let's see who's on the chopping block!

On May 20 2009 13:03 zeks wrote:
I take responsibility for the miss. Therapy wasn't the strongest for clues, in fact I still think Jayme and the cat is. Other than the fact that therapy did seem suspicious, the fact that no one really covered for him said a lot about his role. I was also hoping to get more input from people, especially the two elected, but I guess my finger was all it took to give therapy his end.

Hey, at least we didn't hit a blue. I guess we can call round 1 a draw?

I guess our next step is to construct the medic list.

On May 20 2009 22:34 zeks wrote:
Medic list looks fine to me, I'm pretty much waiting for the Sheriff to talk and the arrival of day 2.

On May 21 2009 03:14 zeks wrote:
I just hope that the medics are listening right now and hopefully they won't deviate from the plan.

On May 21 2009 13:43 zeks wrote:


You bring up some pretty good points.

Let's review out all the likely scenarios:
a) Jim revealed his role to mafia
- Mafia would get rid of him due to the fact that he is a contributing player, and the suspicion cast on him early would probably mean the medics won't be protecting him tonight

b) Jim revealed his role to the Sheriff/Mayor, and one/or both are mafia.
- Now if either JeeJee or Shikyo decided to kill Jim off, I believe that wouldn't be a wise move because bodyguards protect them from potential future vigi hits. I think a mafia "elected" would prefer to have his bodyguards, of course there is the possibility of the mayor trying to get rid of the Sheriff or vice versa. This scenario is pretty farfetch'd in my opinion.

c) Jim never revealed his role to anyone, he was just a target from get the get go since he was a good contributer.
- I think this is the most likely scenario. It's obvious that the town has been suspicious of Jim up until this point, and a lot of us were arguing whether to put him on the medic list or not. Because of the suspicion the medics probably weren't going to cover him tonight which lead to his death.

We only had two deaths tonight, softer and Jimtudor. Obviously there are only two possible scenarios:

a) Stacked hits on either softer or Jim.
- After some thought I find it hard to believe that either of them took 2 hits. Softer wasn't really contributing too too much to deserve 2 hits - in fact he wasn't even on any medic lists afaik. For Jim I want to reiterate that there was already suspicion cast on him, so if mafia were smart they'd probably assume that Jim was not likely to be protected, thus only needing one hit. Of course scenario a) cannot be fully ruled out because we don't know how the mafia valued Jimtudor as a contributer.

b) Someone got saved.
- I think this is more likely, and in this case, I believe someone on the medic list got saved tonight.

I'll true to whip up some clue analysis later.

On May 21 2009 23:52 zeks wrote:
I think the vigi plan has just too many flaws. The medic plan is viable and I really believe that someone got saved last night versus a vet taking a hit. Now, how far the town web has grown I don't know.

But if things get desperate and still nothing gets done, then we should go with the DT rolecheck. I think this is probably the safest plan but obviously has a great drawback of losing one rolecheck. I am willing to step up for examination, that is, you'd have to believe in me not being Godfather.

And so far there have been no clues against me afaik, but of course I'm not free from suspicion one bit. Should we try this? Up to you two DT's to decide. (Of course, if this does happen I hope only one of you rolechecks me)

On May 22 2009 00:01 teks wrote:


I wouldn't mind doing this, but how do you suppose we can overcome these possible flaws:

1) Knowing whether or not the DT's who rolecheck you are real
2) Presenting the results of the rolecheck in this thread WITHOUT giving up the identity of the DT's to the mafia, which would lead to them getting whacked the next night (unless protected by the sheriff, but that has it downsides to it as well)
3) As you said yourself, you may be GF anyway - although it is unlikely..

Now, it's not like we can't do this without a confirmed townie, but it would make things easier. I say before we go through with this plan we should atleast wait until day 3 so the vigi's can make their hits, if one of them strikes gold we won't have to do this.

On May 22 2009 01:30 zeks wrote:
Yep I talked about the possibility of me being GF. That's why you guys have to analyze my behaviour and whether any clues have pointed to me to see whether I'm trustworthy enough up to this point.

I'm not in a hurry in getting this working. We're still in good shape though we lost a bodyguard but at least we don't need to suspect Jim no more, which narrows down the list of potential mafia in the candidates/medic list.

If someone can come up with a surefire plan for day 2, by all means tell us. I'm still not convinced of using the vigi plan for many reasons stated against it.

On May 22 2009 13:04 zeks wrote:


lol pulling an Ace?

Mind to give us a name of someone u want dead?

On May 22 2009 13:38 zeks wrote:
JeeJee it sounds like you have a very extensive database on everyone I was hoping you could have some more justification on l10f.

Foolishness I like your 'no bullshit' attitude.

On May 22 2009 21:43 zeks wrote:


Mafia may want to have a mixed list maybe? Would mafia want to make the whole medic list full of mafia?

On May 22 2009 23:06 zeks wrote:
Because jim was a good enough contributer that he can't simply be ignored to be part of the medic list. Use crate as an example. He's pretty much unanimously agreed upon to be part of the medic list. Mafia have no choice but to put him on their lists. Is he exempt from being hit justbecause he's on a stupid list? Hell no because it'd be more suspicious not to put him on a list when he's done so much. Medic list isn't an immunity list (like JeeJee said). In fact it might be a warning from the mafiathat even the medic list may not be as safe as we think.

On May 22 2009 23:55 zeks wrote:
I never said Jim was a good hit enough to warrant 2 hits - you can try to quote me on it.

I never said it was suspicious for you to put him on the list - you can try to quote me on that too. All I am saying is that the option of a mafia putting Jim on his/her medic list is totally probable.

I never directed anything at you, so I don't know why you're getting so defensive. Read my posts as they are.

On May 23 2009 22:51 zeks wrote:
Town is in utter chaos. Massive finger pointing at almost every suspect possible. Reading things out of context. Drawing implications out of the air from the slightest behaviour changes. All assumptions without any solid evidence. We're basically unable to agree on anything. Someone comes up with a long post and boom I'm now a suspect. But I guess Teks you've done a damn good job on me.

Teks, do you think you're so good that if I were a GF I'd pick people off your list? Your analysis has barely any good content and usually you're just restating other peoples points. Why would a GF kill people you suspect? If anything if I were a GF I'd leave them alive because I know they are green, and if you were town of course you'd be in shit trying to figure out if they're green and I could kill off others.

Why would I think you're a medic? Wouldn't I ask who do you trust rather than who do you suspect? It's true I've been asking about people's suspicions, I won't lie. I asked you guys a question, you answered it. If you asked me a question, I answered it too. Teks you never asked me anything, and you're suspicious so why do I have to keep the PMs going?



Okay, I admit my mistake there. I still disagree with the vigi plan because of how hard it is to orchestrate it. And yes if you were wondering, in past mafia's people had names. No I am not against a confirmed townie, because I suggested the DT-Rolecheck idea, and I listed pros and cons for all 3 ideas.



Here is what I said: Page 8.

I was in support of the medic plan, in fact I wanted that plan first before using my DT-rolecheck plan.




Don't contradict yourself.

As for my pitch for mayor: If I were mafia do you know how dangerous it would be for me to run for mayor that late? First I'd be sticking my head out for suspect and second I'm probably not going to win. If I had pleaded my case for mayor earlier (around when JeeJee or Shikyo did theirs) I think I'd have a legit shot for a spot. I ran for mayor so town can see other options: I never expected to win at all. How could I win when I had my election speech as first post? I wasn't involved until page 8 when things have already boiled up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quotes part 2:



Why don't you find me someone who suggested lynching an inactive AND with clues pointing to them? People were agreeing on me because I came up with the idea, while people like you only thought of lynching based on inactivity OR clues.

I'm placed on all the medic lists because I am trusted by the town. My suggestion for therapy was a reply to BWDero when he wanted a name out there - so I gave him one. And Shikyo was pretty quick to support me without any reason.



Trying to protect Shikyo while attacking me at the same time?



The plan being the medic list?



I didn't lie. I will admit to this mistake that I missed the veteran possibility. If this is enough to warrant me guilty then so be it, but that was just my misunderstanding.



What have chaoser, Judge, Shikyo figured out that I didn't say in my own plan? Do tell. I was the first person to bring up the godfather possibility.

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I don't give a FLAMING FUCK if I'm removed from the medic list. The medic list meant shit from day 1. It's just a stupid list of who posts the most (see the correlation of most posts -> medic list? I do too!). I didn't feel ANY safer than I would be not on the medic list.

If you look at teks arguments with quotes on me, he chooses the stuff he wants to quote, and leaves out the rest because it contradicts his arguments. Read my posts again and you'll see different than what he has posed.



Lol and the cherry on top: the ultimatum to everyone. By the time you get lynched it'd be night 4, and if you are TOWN like you say you are, then we'd probably have hit 0 mafia till then, which is pretty much game over.

What are you trying to pull an iloveKTF? Except you're smarter than him I admit. You're not going to go down that easily right? You're going to "take responsibility" on a failed lynch, rather than requesting a mod kill.

You're just trying to make it seem like you have nothing to lose, putting your life on the line, empathizing with the majority of the town.

That ends my rebuttal for teks. If you want me to cover anything I didn't, by all means feel free to call me out again. I will be following up with my clue analysis later on today or tomorrow, and I assure you, mine will be WAY MORE spectacular than what teks has told you.

On May 23 2009 23:26 zeks wrote:
Now that I've dealt with teks, let's deal with Shikyo's argument deconstruction.




Why were you so quick on lynching therapy? Oh, as I recall, you were the one who dropped the axe on him? No one even slightly challenged my case to lynch therapy. I was hoping for other options to be out there, but no one said anything.

This by all means doesn't mean I'm not taking responsibility for his death.



If the DT rolechecked me I'd only initially be communicating to that one DT.



I agree with you that I haven't been the biggest help lately. But I assure you, and everyone else that it will all change by tonight or tomorrow morning.

was a reply to .





When have I ever pointed a finger at you? When have I even mentioned your name in an analysis? What part of is directed at you, Shikyo? Why do you think I'm talking about you when I say mafia? Stop pulling random implications out of what I'm saying. I've said to "read my posts as they are".



You want to play with "time"? Sure, two can play that game.

May 22 2009 21:43 -

May 22 2009 23:06 -

Do the math, 23:06- 21:43. Less than fucking 2 hours. Sorry if I'm not 24/7 devoted to this game, and a rebuttal less than 2 hours later is not good enough for you. Stop using such backhanded tactics to incriminate me.

I never said Jim was a good hit enough to warrant 2 hits - you can try to quote me on it.

I never said it was suspicious for you to put him on the list - you can try to quote me on that too. All I am saying is that the option of a mafia putting Jim on his/her medic list is totally probable.

I never directed anything at you, so I don't know why you're getting so defensive. Read my posts as they are.





See why are you so stuck up that you think I'm targeting you? I'll repeat it once more. All I said in that exchange was that the option of a mafia putting Jim on his/her medic list is totally probable. Don't make it look like I'm against you now. Although you've built up quite a case on me (or at least had a good attempt to), I'm not going to start going finger-pointing-crazy.

I didn't contribute that much for the night 2 lynch, and I admit my fault. But I assure the town that after you read my analysis that I will have for tonight (12 hours) tomorrow (24 hours) there will be no doubt of my contributions.

If anyone wants me to clarify anything I've said I'm very willing to now as I am now forced into a defensive position.

On May 23 2009 23:30 zeks wrote:
Btw, Shikyo and teks you're both from europe and I'm from Canada, so if I'm not active when you're not active please understand that I'm in a totally different timezone.

As for the medic list tonight, I have no comments about how you medics are going to use it for your guidelines of protection, but I believe this is a very important article that should be posted again.

On May 24 2009 00:18 zeks wrote:
Edit: I made a formatting error on the rebuttal of Shikyo (quoted something twice)

zeks wrote:
c) Detective role-check
Depending on how far we get with the medic plan, we might have to consider the ultimatum which is to have a DT rolecheck someone - which would be the safest way, unless you manage to unluckily land on the godfather; then theres no way back. The chance of landing on the godfather is slim though, so I deem this the safest plan and most viable after using trying the medic plan.

zeks wrote:
I suggest that as soon as DTs are allowed to act, we should start checking clues on the people who voted for Tudor (making the Tudor list).

I don't necessarily think Tudor is red at this point since I can't connect really any clues to him (I don't understand his quote, and his name is apparently a name of a hockey player), and his actions haven't really been too suspicious.

I'm also not completely 100% sold on JeeJee's alignment, but right now my gut feeling tells me to trust him over Tudor.

zeks wrote:
I think the vigi plan has just too many flaws. The medic plan is viable and I really believe that someone got saved last night versus a vet taking a hit. Now, how far the town web has grown I don't know.

But if things get desperate and still nothing gets done, then we should go with the DT rolecheck. I think this is probably the safest plan but obviously has a great drawback of losing one rolecheck. I am willing to step up for examination, that is, you'd have to believe in me not being Godfather.

And so far there have been no clues against me afaik, but of course I'm not free from suspicion one bit. Should we try this? Up to you two DT's to decide. (Of course, if this does happen I hope only one of you rolechecks me)

zeks wrote:
1) The DT would tell me my role.
2) I wouldn't have to disclose who's a DT anyway. I'm willing to act as the DT's mouthpiece and if we nail one then he'll turn red and you can trust me then.
3) Up to you guys to decide.

There is no 100% foolproof plan, there's always a possibility that can fuck everything up. I'm basically playing a game of probabilities.

zeks wrote:
1) The DT would tell me my role.