EPTOn May 21 2009 11:34 L wrote:
Ok lol. Better hope they dont' both turn red.
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2009 11:29 Tricode wrote:
What the hell are you talking about? Dude, i have been reading your posts about me, if you have a problem with what i have to say, have some reasonable argument and how it is stupid.
It's not that I'm really offended I'm more annoyed with the crap you have to say. Also last that I checked, I seen more people calling you a dumb ass rather then me ;p .
I also never admited about me being stupid. So i don't know what you are talking about. Either learn to read or stop saying crap.
On May 21 2009 11:20 L wrote:
Why would you get offended that I call you stupid when you admit it a phrase before complaining about it?
Derp Derp.
Its the content of your posts rather than your position that make me think you're a dumb shit. Ace disagrees with me but I think he's being very smart about how he presents his arguments (or lack thereof). You, on the other hand? Dumb.
On May 21 2009 11:15 Tricode wrote:
You know you're getting on my nervs. Keep me out of your stupid tangents and raves. You have brought my name quite a few times with a few insults here and there.
If you can take some consideration, my last game was the first time I was ever townie. Before that I was just thrown into mafia with out a shit of a clue in what to do.
Now if you would like to call me stupid this game. I would like you to present me with some sort of reasoning, other wise stop being a emotional cry baby about how since I didn't agree with you early on in the game = me being stupid.
On May 21 2009 11:08 L wrote:
Why would Mafia not have voted him in sooner? Because mafia already HAD him in prior to nemY. Ver had a commanding lead, showtime had like 3 votes and Ace was sitting above that. No point stacking people on, might as well sprinkle mafia on other targets to lay low.
When nemY happened, mafia didn't 'want' to have to voteswing Ace in, but nemY's candidacy forced some people to switch to him. Obviously you examine each voter independantly, but there are a number of late Ace voters that are fishy. Tricode, for instance, has been either been playing consistently stupid (and given last game I sadly concede that he's potentially that stupid without ulterior motives. So what do I do regarding a player like tricode? How do I crack his motivations?
Well, I need date from Ace to complete the picture.
Basically you're saying "mafia could have done many things" which is true. What doesn't change, however, is that mafia will push their members into office given a chance, and during this election there was clearly an opportunity go go x2 office, which is why I think we should prepare for that possibility.
On May 21 2009 10:56 MTF wrote:
I agree with everything in the first two sentences. The problem is they are complete "what if" situations to you.
For the third, however...Help me understand this. Assume that you are right, and Ace is Mafia. Why would Mafia not have voted him in sooner or secured him a strong spot in the election earlier on, so as to avoid the very suspicion you are putting on him? Was Nemy just a convenient cover for a sudden five-six votes to switch over to him? And assuming further that both are mafia: Was the plan just to get Ver in first and then the Nemy situation happened, so they figured, hell, why not try to get both of them in? Or was Nemy an intentional part of it?
See the problem I have with your scenario?
On May 21 2009 10:44 L wrote:
MTF, we already 100% agreed that if Ace is mafia and he's going down, its always in his best interest to pardon the other player, mafia or not.
If both Ver and Ace are mafia, your analysis of the 'large bandwagon' is consistent with what most mafia players would do in the current situation. Drop Ver, switch to Ace.
And regardless of the nemY situation, if Ace flips red, the voteswing is a voteswing. THIS IS WHY WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO TELL WHICH SIDE HE'S ON.
On May 21 2009 10:40 MTF wrote:
First, the so-called large bandwagon behind him is pretty small to the very consistent core that voted Ver in and people can defend Ace without being die-hard about it. Like me, right now. Second, the "cannot vote for him" bit is incorrect, unless you assume that we can't vote for him because he'd pardon whoever the other person was. Which is incorrect. I haven't seen that many contradictory posts and I'm not sure what you mean by his having supported mafia players in the past, unless you somehow have them figured out already. Finally, the massive voteswing you're talking about happened because of the Nemy situation. Nemy was close to being pushed into a position and many players did not like that, so there was a movement to vote in either Mynock or Ace in behind Ver. Ace ended up being the one that got the votes.
On May 21 2009 10:34 L wrote:
I didn't say we needed a role check. I said he's the least scrutinizable player in the game. Is that correct or not? No rolecheck. Large bandwagon behind him. Cannot vote for him until day 5 or vig hit if we do back to back double lynches. Consistently contradictory posts. Has supported mafia players in the past. The target of a massive voteswing. I mean, 2+2. There's evidence.
On May 21 2009 10:30 MTF wrote:
[quote]
You don't need a role check to identify him with time (you can't fake away clues even if you can fake behavior) and I'm quite sure that if those defending him were not Mafia, they would stop doing so in the face of clear evidence. If not, then you were right.
[quote]
You're either making the assumption that there is a mountain of evidence against Ace right now that nobody is seeing except you or that there will be a mountain of evidence later with which town will do nothing with. I'm guessing the former. I don't think there's really anything constructive to say if either option is correct, though.
[quote]
You don't need a role check to identify him with time (you can't fake away clues even if you can fake behavior) and I'm quite sure that if those defending him were not Mafia, they would stop doing so in the face of clear evidence. If not, then you were right.
[quote]
You're either making the assumption that there is a mountain of evidence against Ace right now that nobody is seeing except you or that there will be a mountain of evidence later with which town will do nothing with. I'm guessing the former. I don't think there's really anything constructive to say if either option is correct, though.
I didn't say we needed a role check. I said he's the least scrutinizable player in the game. Is that correct or not? No rolecheck. Large bandwagon behind him. Cannot vote for him until day 5 or vig hit if we do back to back double lynches. Consistently contradictory posts. Has supported mafia players in the past. The target of a massive voteswing. I mean, 2+2. There's evidence.
First, the so-called large bandwagon behind him is pretty small to the very consistent core that voted Ver in and people can defend Ace without being die-hard about it. Like me, right now. Second, the "cannot vote for him" bit is incorrect, unless you assume that we can't vote for him because he'd pardon whoever the other person was. Which is incorrect. I haven't seen that many contradictory posts and I'm not sure what you mean by his having supported mafia players in the past, unless you somehow have them figured out already. Finally, the massive voteswing you're talking about happened because of the Nemy situation. Nemy was close to being pushed into a position and many players did not like that, so there was a movement to vote in either Mynock or Ace in behind Ver. Ace ended up being the one that got the votes.
MTF, we already 100% agreed that if Ace is mafia and he's going down, its always in his best interest to pardon the other player, mafia or not.
If both Ver and Ace are mafia, your analysis of the 'large bandwagon' is consistent with what most mafia players would do in the current situation. Drop Ver, switch to Ace.
And regardless of the nemY situation, if Ace flips red, the voteswing is a voteswing. THIS IS WHY WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO TELL WHICH SIDE HE'S ON.
I agree with everything in the first two sentences. The problem is they are complete "what if" situations to you.
For the third, however...Help me understand this. Assume that you are right, and Ace is Mafia. Why would Mafia not have voted him in sooner or secured him a strong spot in the election earlier on, so as to avoid the very suspicion you are putting on him? Was Nemy just a convenient cover for a sudden five-six votes to switch over to him? And assuming further that both are mafia: Was the plan just to get Ver in first and then the Nemy situation happened, so they figured, hell, why not try to get both of them in? Or was Nemy an intentional part of it?
See the problem I have with your scenario?
Why would Mafia not have voted him in sooner? Because mafia already HAD him in prior to nemY. Ver had a commanding lead, showtime had like 3 votes and Ace was sitting above that. No point stacking people on, might as well sprinkle mafia on other targets to lay low.
When nemY happened, mafia didn't 'want' to have to voteswing Ace in, but nemY's candidacy forced some people to switch to him. Obviously you examine each voter independantly, but there are a number of late Ace voters that are fishy. Tricode, for instance, has been either been playing consistently stupid (and given last game I sadly concede that he's potentially that stupid without ulterior motives. So what do I do regarding a player like tricode? How do I crack his motivations?
Well, I need date from Ace to complete the picture.
Basically you're saying "mafia could have done many things" which is true. What doesn't change, however, is that mafia will push their members into office given a chance, and during this election there was clearly an opportunity go go x2 office, which is why I think we should prepare for that possibility.
You know you're getting on my nervs. Keep me out of your stupid tangents and raves. You have brought my name quite a few times with a few insults here and there.
If you can take some consideration, my last game was the first time I was ever townie. Before that I was just thrown into mafia with out a shit of a clue in what to do.
Now if you would like to call me stupid this game. I would like you to present me with some sort of reasoning, other wise stop being a emotional cry baby about how since I didn't agree with you early on in the game = me being stupid.
Why would you get offended that I call you stupid when you admit it a phrase before complaining about it?
Derp Derp.
Its the content of your posts rather than your position that make me think you're a dumb shit. Ace disagrees with me but I think he's being very smart about how he presents his arguments (or lack thereof). You, on the other hand? Dumb.
What the hell are you talking about? Dude, i have been reading your posts about me, if you have a problem with what i have to say, have some reasonable argument and how it is stupid.
It's not that I'm really offended I'm more annoyed with the crap you have to say. Also last that I checked, I seen more people calling you a dumb ass rather then me ;p .
I also never admited about me being stupid. So i don't know what you are talking about. Either learn to read or stop saying crap.
Ok lol. Better hope they dont' both turn red.
Meh, if are going to kill them both, i hope they both turn red. I rather not waste time killing an innocent. I don't really want to help the mafia out.
Though if one of them do turn to be townie, what should we say about you? Seems like you're a bit trigger happy buddy, ready to kill anyone that didn't agree with you eh?
