EPTOops, will have to wait 'till Sunday... :/
TL Mafia 2 [GG]
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Mynock
4492 Posts
Oops, will have to wait 'till Sunday... :/ | ||
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Mynock
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Mynock
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So I believe some sort of activity confirmation is necessary. Probably in the form of sending out the roles, and if one does not confirm their acknowledgment of the role within 48 hrs they should be removed and the role given to someone else. However it's even better to just send a PM to everyone before the game and only leave them in for the role distributions if they reply affirmatively. | ||
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Mynock
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Mynock
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Mynock
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On March 18 2008 17:03 SonuvBob wrote: I'm an admin, like Steve. :p Except I'll be less of a douche! That's the SonuvBob Promise™! 1. I'll be less of a douche than FakeSteve was! 2. I can read edits! 3. I can use HTML. Let's see those mafia scum fight that! 4. Four! Vote for me! http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=68177 He's already lying! Very suspicious! Let's see his points: 1 - Debatable! (OK, who am I kidding, that's a valid point) 2 - Liar! You're not a mod, you're a newsposter, you can't read edits! 3 - Irrelevant! 4 - Five! And you're not an admin! OMG, deceit! | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
On March 19 2008 03:13 Ace wrote: Ok here's my take - it would be a pretty good idea from a Mafia standpoint. 1.) Empryean did very well last game 2.) For some reason, people think the probability of him being Mafia again has changed when it really hasn't 3.) He claims a role that is important and can't be verified right now 4.) Most importantly, it adds confusion to the game 4 is the prime reason that if I were Mafia, it would be a great tool. People trust Empryean, and if another DT comes and investigates him well they'd be hard pressed to prove it - and now the Mafia knows another DT role with nothing else weighing in on their decisions aka an easy kill. Thats an element of confusion that takes away from the main focus, and the easiest way for the Mafia to win is to confuse the Townies. I'm not saying Empryean is Mafia, but that was a very risky move. There was no point in revealing his alleged role so early in the game. Maybe he's afraid that he'd be killed early and is innocent after all - and if that's the case for someone so smart he should have provided a better angle of campaigning. I agree. What really goes against Empyrian here is that since he did well last game this feeble move right now seems like quite a misstep. Doesn't look right. | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
I don't see what kind of tactic it is to always enable double lynches and why it is in town's best interest. I don't see how "bodyguard protection is wasted" once mafia will put multiple targets up. In fact, I don't even get it what you want to say :/ Equally like "A detective mayor/pardoner is the best bet for the town. Even more so than a DT mayor." So a detective mayor is better than a detective mayor? What? | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
And all this talk about "a mafia mayor is just as good" is just... | ||
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Mynock
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I'm beginning to think now that Empyrean, if not mafia, is a towny saboteur who wants to cause misunderstanding just for fun cause he only got a plain towny or something. Either way, I don't know what to make of all of this yet, but you sure drew a hell of a lot of attention to yourself. | ||
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Mynock
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On March 19 2008 07:11 Empyrean wrote: It ensures that the mayor is safe from Suicide Bombers if all the bodyguards die - the paramedics will still probably protect the mayor. The suicide bombers can't kill a mayor, it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever if they could. [edit: and suggesting all the bodyguards would die before is really far fetched] So either you haven't read the rules at all (don't know the roles, don't know the abilities), or you're doing all this deliberately, or you said something you now want to be unsaid. Any case, I think it's now in your best interest to step down from the election and let us decide later  Because either you're not serious enough about the task of a mayor or a mafia. Not a good choice any way. Plus you've now made yourself sound suspicious. | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
On March 19 2008 07:14 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: Mynock, part of this stems from irritation over last game, but I think you're making yourself look pretty suspicious by badgering a legitimate mayor candidate. That's your personal view of course, so be it. But if a mayor says that it's the best thing for the town if a mayor is a Suicide Bomber (a MAFIA role) then... Well, I rest my case. | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
Besides, you just basically put it like "oh and btw I'm a detective, kinda an advantage, right?". So now it's the best interest of the town to have you: 1) Protected (medics please?) 2) Investigated (detectives please?) Basically now the town has to act and correct the situation because of your own decision. If you're right a DT mayor would of course be swell for town - but if you're not, we have to deal with the situation. | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
On March 19 2008 07:21 Empyrean wrote: No, the pardoner should use the role when he has enough conviction to believe that the town is falsely lynching. If there were a mafia pardoner who decides to pardon a mafia member without a "good" reason, the town will suspect him anyway, leading to the revelation of another mafia. Besides, I can always confirm someone's role. We're obviously all aware that a detective as mayor would be AWESOME, the problem is just your "coming out" like this, so it forces the town to move radically. (Of course right now the medics really don't have any better targets, just as the detectives, so in the first day I guess it's not a big problem... But still, the Bodyguard Plan sounds good and solid - without too much guessing, too.) | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
In fact, another of the downfalls of Empyrean's self-revealing is as follows: While every detective just uses one of their checks to see if the mayor is legit, Empyrean (the only one who claimed he is a detective, and as such we should try to use him to save a role-check), should use his power to check the pardoner instead. He will probably be muted by the saboteur tho, so then one of the hidden detectives will have to waste another role-check on the pardoner, while Empyrean will eventually either be kept mute or dead as soon as a different target arrives. This would leave us with a mere 3 [edit: oh, plus the 2 from the jack, so it's pretty OK!] role-checks for the rest of the game, but It's still well worth it IMO. | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
On March 20 2008 09:23 Ghar wrote: Why do you guys hold the role checks so importantly? 2 role checks limits the use of them significantly. There's no logic in role checking a townie out of a hundred to in case he might be mafia. It's better used to confirm fundamental assumptions, like the mayor really is on your side, and whether if people are fake role checking. The other skills are still very useful. That's just what I said as well. Altho towards the end of the game I suppose the role-check will become even more important in case there is a case like with Live2Win. That's because, even though the plan of the role-townies revealing themselves all to the mayor would ensure all the roles are accounted for, if one of the roles doesn't have all the members being active enough it might pose such a problem that imposters might show up and infiltrate the system. Besides, there will always be plenty of townies who will draw suspicion to themselves through irrational behaviour (i.e Empyrean ). | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
Also, probably the best strategy would be for the medics to decide themselves if they want to protect Empyrean or not, this way the mafia will have to guess whether to use up their suicide bomber (and potentially waste him) or just use up some of their killing power (and still not get the kill). Let them guess. | ||
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Mynock
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On March 20 2008 10:49 bumatlarge wrote: Unfortunately, if Empyrean isn't mafia, mafia will kill him. And if Mafia won't kill him then townspeople will. Let's hope once Ace is in the office the plan works and we'll soon have a mayor who could then coordinate us and see if Emp really is legit. With a saboteur and a suicide bomber among the mafia tho, Emp is absolutely useless to the town now either way, except we might save a lynch if he is proven innocent. That's about all the use there is. | ||
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Mynock
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On March 20 2008 10:51 Yogurt wrote: i reread the plan, and for some reason i had in my mind that then the townies would be pm'ing their roles to the bodyguards, but i see he never wrote that in any case, this wouldn't work because of the massive pool of townies. Yes, it'd be easy to fish out the role claimers, as there are only two or three of each role, but the pool of townies is like 90 something people, which would allow mafia to just put their names in as townies, and it wouldn't help much. But anyway, I'm curious as to how the plan will continue. So hypothetically lets say Ace is mafia. He gets into "office" releases the names of the bodyguards, and everything seems fine. But if the town thinks he is legit, as he well might be, he garners a huge amount of trust and can sway the lynching votes away from his fellow mafia. But anyway, even if we do get the bodyguard names, where do we go from there? IF ace is mafia, he could release the names, but just as well kill all the bodyguards the first night. Well great, we lynch him, fine. But now pardoner has no bodyguards, and we're down a mayor. I dunno I guess someone should be skeptical of this plan No, you don't realize a vital part of the plan, namely that the detectives use their role-check ability to see if the mayor is mafia or legit. If he is mafia we will know at once, if he's not, also. Worst case scenario is we lose a detective vs a mafia, best case scenario is we have a solid foundation for the rest of the game. | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
Now, if he's indeed a townie he's made another crucial mistake, instead of confusing the mafia (and possibly sacrificing himself) he's confusing the town even further. This is getting really weird now. But for now, I want to hear what others think tho. | ||
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Mynock
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On March 20 2008 11:02 GeneralStan wrote: You just confused me :\ If he was a vanilla townie then we could have been wasting mafia roles, but they might have realized and ignored Emp. Or Emp really is a detective and he's trying to now avert attention from himself. Exactly. If he was a vanilla townie and thought his position through properly, he would have realized that he can hurt the mafia more by lying about him being a detective. Or, he's a detective after all, and is now just trying to save his hide. Or, he's mafia, in which case the confusion is obvious, but then he just made himself suspicious for no real benefit, and the best move would jut be to hold him suspicious without any direct actions atm. | ||
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Mynock
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Mynock
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Role-claiming other roles is also not a good idea for mafia, as roles can always be checked upon, and a mafia will always come into a short list of people and a lot of suspicion this way. Imagine mafia claiming a paramedic role. Now mayor assigns the paramedics to different targets (only he knows the targets and their roles) - now if one of the targets still dies it means the mafia somehow knew about the protection and sent more killers or the protector wasn't even protecting anything. Equally, if the mafia does not target the fake medic's assignment, it basically ensures the target's safety. So it's almost as having an extra medic around Fake-claiming roles for mafia does not seem like a good strategy here. | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
On March 20 2008 12:11 Empyrean wrote: "But Empyrean's a mafia member! Let's lynch him!!" ... ...I'm very interested to see Ace's plans. He assured me he pretty much had lots of tricks up his sleeves. And by tricks I mean plans to lolown the mafia through logic and conservative play! EDIT: I'm satisfied with the results of the mayoral election. All I've managed to do is buy some time for more useful town members (if Mafia decides to lynch me, of course). I never said we should lynch you. The best tactic for town right now is to wait out on you and see how things develop. Lynching you if you're innocent is a set-back for the town, but keeping you if you're mafia is not really a problem. You'd just be like any other mafia, except more suspicious . | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
Also, lynching Empyrean is only in the mafia's best interests. Why? Well, if I was mafia, I would now be pretty much confused about Empyrean's role (and chances of him being mafia are not too high actually). I think the following course of events is likely: If we largely predict Empyrean to be dead tonight, they will leave him be and have him attract suspicion to himself. If however we largely predict that they will know we think so, and that's exactly the reason they kept him alive, we should not jump the gun too soon because we risk lynching an active townie. Had we lynched Empyrean first day, that's a lot of problems off of mafia's shoulders, less guessing for them to do. Still, Emp presents a good target for the mafia even now, so helping them by going ahead and doing the job for them is in no way a good strategy. As for the Mad Hatter, I can't believe how some of you base your arguments on the mere fact that he happened to be a blue. If anything, it was iNc's fault! Ace went out of his way to ensure a role would not be harmed, his actions clearly shown it. Calm down people, and be reasonable. Now that we have a solid foundation for the game, let's do our best to build up from here, and work together with the people in office. | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
On March 21 2008 02:48 Ace wrote: actually it's a sound strategy. Shit stirrers are no benefit to the town, and if we make it clear we'd lynch them they would shape up. If they continue to behave that way we have no choice but to think they are Mafia and get rid of them. I have to agree. So far, shitstirrers like Shallow and Showtime! contributed nothing but confusion. I really hope they are with mafia, cause whatever side they're on, they only hinder it... Just let's hope they're no special towny roles, would suck to have them wasted like that. | ||
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Mynock
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On March 21 2008 03:33 Showtime! wrote: It still doesn't work Lucas because way too many people are inactive and it would take too much time. You wouldn't be able to measure it properly. It adds to the possible combinations and clue interpretations (like it has been said already, mafia is lying, townies are not, and lies are more likely to catch up with the liars in the long run). And to respond to your question: of course it would make no sense. But not much of what either you or Shallow said so far made much sense (all the stubborn bickering that is), so hey, how am I supposed to know? | ||
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Mynock
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On March 21 2008 20:12 Naib wrote: Well, you can't just "do that" even though we got way less spam this time (wait until next clues are out though, I'm sure that'll mean +20 pages under 5 hours  ). Even though the Town has very few things to do atm, the Mafia needs a lot of time to organize (20 people in a PM madness can be pretty time-consuming) So let's just wait and pray for our lives I don't think they would communicate through PMs tho, that's not really efficient. If I was mafia I'd make use of a separate forum created for this reason, passworded and all. Then again, if they don't use anything like that - more power to us But yeah, awaiting day now, nothing better to do than speculate... :/ | ||
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Mynock
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Mynock
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Daybreak when? I will die  | ||
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Mynock
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On March 22 2008 12:07 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: Mynock, I've had enough of these immature random accusations. I understand if you're just trying to have fun, but confusing the town is never a good thing. Siddharta Fucking Gautama Buddha, you'll never stop, will you? Mafia please kill me now, else I shoot myself out of frustration -_-; | ||
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Mynock
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Nah, not really. Ace and I figured I'm probably a goner after Day2 - I then tried to just keep a low profile, but looks like that wasn't good enough. Regardless, if the mafia figured I was supposed to be Blue as an indication of activity, they should now be disappointed. Have fun playing this, I'll be curious to know what side finally prevails | ||
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Mynock
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That whole using-my-head-as-a-blunt-instrument-of-pain was almost as sick as the new SP episode :/ So I'm expecting some retribution! | ||
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Mynock
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49.09% townies are alive. 55% mafia are alive. | ||
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Mynock
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Sure, heaven gives a nice view from up there, but on the other hand, all the upskirts make it worth it down here! | ||
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Mynock
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Just fucking guess" Hahahaha. | ||
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Mynock
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Chuiu, how about a redistribution of inactives right about now? Both within mafia and townies. All the blues are dead anyway (well, except the veterans, but who cares about those), so unless the town drops the baggage (which is about 70%of players right now), this game will come to a halt within 5 nights and then it will patintly and idly wait until it is slowly decimated by the mafia :/ | ||
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Mynock
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![[image loading]](http://www.independentcritics.com/images/brain%20dead%20SPLASH.jpg) | ||
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Mynock
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Mynock
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Mynock
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One week? Hehehe... | ||
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Mynock
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Mynock
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Also, the inactives problem really kills Town. It obviously is nothing to Mafia, since every one of them gets a cool special role, but that's not how it is with Town. Probably main reason why I always found Mafia's outcries about imbalance ridiculous. Anyways, this was just to try and breathe some life into this game, would like to see this round end ASAP tho | ||
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Mynock
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Mynock
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And it takes only 1 (one) active mafia to make the whole fraction effective, not to mention that probably nobody in the Mafia group is actually inactive, since they all have roles. Giving the win to Mafia after the great game the Town pulled this round would be to spit in Town's face. I hope for a more just solution. :/ | ||
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Mynock
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Mynock
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On July 12 2008 14:58 randombum wrote: huh? So... Chuiu just randomly handing out random greens to people is what is suppose to happen in this game? And pointing out the faults in him doing it is crying? So if Chuiu starts going "[insert mafia name] killed [insert town name]" And I said WTF? I'd be crying again? Or what if in Chuiu's next night it goes "Hand of god strikes down [insert mafia name]", complaining about that would be crying? Or if Chuiu decides to say "Ok, NM theres 1 townie and 4 mafia, but they all ate something bad and died of over crapping, town wins" I wouldn't be allowed to complain about that either? For the record, I was wondering whether the two newcomers were actually townies, especially since Mafia only made 2 kills at night, I suspected there might be inactives among them. And just as I was thinking "damn, one of those is probably a mafia, and the town won't even suspect anything, this is bad..." comes along randombum and clears things up. Thanks!  | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
And more importantly - will there be a next round? | ||
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Mynock
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On July 13 2008 03:28 mikeymoo wrote: If there's a next round we need a way to make sure people are active. Maybe they have to PM Chuiu to say that they've read the Day/Night or something. I'm sure Chuiu has better things to do than read ~100 PMs every time he makes a post I can imagine the vote tallying is a hassle as it is.Maybe Chuiu could ask a friendly admin to program an automated voting feature for the Mafia game? | ||
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Mynock
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On July 13 2008 05:22 randombum wrote: First, we are not complaining about replacing inactive players, we are complaining about replacing players and declaring their role. Also, If the game is balanced when all the townies are active, and it is close with 1/2 the town inactive then it clearly isn't balanced if the whole town was here. Finally, there are more inactive mafia than everybody is suggesting, Theres at least 5 or 6 already dead mafia who weren't involved or were barely involved in our actions at all. The town did an AMAZING good job at rooting out Mafia. Plexa, Ace, MTF and others did a tremendous job here. Mafia on the other hand was playing sloppy (even though you even had the whole lost of blues), that's why you don't deserve the win. Also, even tho the mafia had 5 or 6 inactives, it hurt you what? Jack shit, because it only takes 1 active mafia for the whole fraction to act according to plan, while the Town doesn't have this luxury. And, since the game was basically played with 30 less people for Town than it should have been, I think it's a clear cut victory for Town all things considered. 30 more people would have made things so much more difficult for Mafia - more targets to aim for, lots more analyzing, less potential misses due to randomly lynching inactives, etc, etc... Inactivity only hurt the Town, that's the bottom line. Mafia knows everything beforehand, so in the extreme case of say, 1 active person in the Town fraction, and 1 active person in the Mafia fraction at the start of the game, Mafia wins on first night. In this case, the odds were stacked against Town, but still it took so long for all the actives to perish. Honestly, this can't be a Mafia win after all that happened. | ||
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Mynock
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But, my soul will finally rest in peace soon. | ||
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Mynock
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On July 30 2008 15:11 Bill307 wrote: Of course you'll be "winning". Just tell all the remaining women that they've gotta help repopulate the town. ... oh wait... Now you see how difficult it is to keep quiet in the grave!! | ||
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Mynock
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Mynock
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Yes, I'm also interested in hearing a detailed explanation as to why Mafia thinks the Town was overpowered. From my perspective, it was a simple combination of good planning (Ace & co.) and great dedication (Plexa & co.) that ensured Town victory even with that IRCgate incident, and later the rolesgate incident. GJ to all who participated, I wonder how the next round will go Thanks a lot Chuiu for taking your time and providing all the entertainment! | ||
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Mynock
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Ace's early note regarding me might be pleasant to read, but was also the cause of my early downfall Ah well, I wanted to do so much more in this game - here's hoping I'll survive a bit longer to accomplish some of it in the next.Oh, and reading that "defense" by Oz was absolutely hilarious, I literally LOL-ed at some places | ||
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Mynock
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On August 06 2008 08:03 randombum wrote: Oh yea, We agreed that I definitely needed to laugh at you for stealing your role and preventing you from getting BG protection. So, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NO PARDONER FOR YOUS While I, in turn always wanted to add, that Mafia never had the chance of putting you into Mayor seat tho. Up until the very last minute both Ace and I (who both voted for you at that time) were on standby to change our votes if need be. Add to that the fact that there's a miscalculation in your votes (there's a guy who voted on you who isn't even in the game) and you would have needed 6 more votes to get the mayoral seat. So a no-go for you guys, don't blame those 2 inactive mafias | ||
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Mynock
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Mynock
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On August 07 2008 05:16 HotZhot wrote: So in the end I turned out to be mr.blonde...that's ironic, I seriously didn't know. Anyway GG town, this one was closer and I'm proud I was the last one to fall. Hope you guys have fun on the next one. Chuiu please replace me, GL to all (especially to mafia), getting a mafia role is just epic. I basically had to wait THE WHOLE FUCKING GAME to be avenged. Grrr. | ||
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Mynock
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