EPTWinter Warfare Mafia
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Palmar
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Brazilposting in crisis? | ||
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Good town post. Without the smiley it would’ve been confirmed town. But smiley makes it 90% town. | ||
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On December 10 2023 18:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar pros town here. This is a very insightful and towny post. Good job rayn. | ||
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Trfel boring post analysis suggests maybe mafia. Conclusion: none yet. | ||
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No it's not, it's terrible. | ||
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The people didn't come here for our new experimental stuff, they want the greatest hits. | ||
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On December 10 2023 21:18 Palmar wrote: Mafia don’t get impatient to post their trash takes in the thread DP. They’d rather not post them. This is one of the better posts in the thread. I actually like this take enough to not lynch Trfel today. My list is slowly being narrowed down. | ||
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It'll get there, relax. | ||
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On December 11 2023 01:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: My take is that he is supposedly saying he finds something alignment indicative in Slam's posting, doesn't tell what that is or which way in his opinion it points towards, but somehow Trfel is supposed to(?) do that. He did say exactly what he found alignment indicative. On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote: So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling. I actually hard agree with liking that by Sandroba, which is why it's so disappointing he doesn't come out with a favorable opinion. | ||
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Slam Palmar Marv Rayn Trfel DP Sandroba Haven't thought about Vivax, and Koshi, die_meatbaby (I need a shorthand for that...) HF and Chez haven't really said anything. It is a little suspicious that Chez hasn't tried to form a multinational corporation hellbent on world takeover though. | ||
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On December 11 2023 02:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: He literally ended the sentence with "again, not very telling".  yeah that's kinda my point he liked something, but then just talked himself into not committing to the like. I do like that post from slam and I do think it makes him 100% confirmed town. | ||
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We're saying the same thing. Can you go argue with HF now, I'm making popcorn. | ||
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We found our first mafia boys. Get in while it’s still cool | ||
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On December 11 2023 10:33 DarthPunk wrote: You are not wrong, but I think it's not outside of the scope of his town play. I’m never wrong. Let’s do the vote thing. | ||
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On December 11 2023 10:54 die_meatbaby wrote: Why is Palmar so confident about his opinion on who is scum. It´s D1 and this dude things he can just read everybody and knows thats scum. Is he like god of this game or why i nobody suspect about his conidence here? On the contrary, I am extraordinarily humble. | ||
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On December 11 2023 11:26 die_meatbaby wrote: Just to make this clear my decision to vote for Vivax is based on my own analysis and not because your ego convinced me to vote who ever you think is scum. And yes your filter looks good but you still not town for me and I will read and analysis every post you will make until you lose a bit of this self believing god player stuff here. This is such a town post lol. | ||
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In a little bit (~2h) | ||
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On December 11 2023 16:59 DarthPunk wrote: It would be a cruel twist of fate for marv to roll mafia again Distinct possibility | ||
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On December 11 2023 20:21 marvellosity wrote: I think it’s a terrible case and parts of it make me suspicious - for example if I have a chess match, I will say so as either alignment, I have never lied about this sort of thing as either alignment. DP should know that. I can’t really be arsed to try to attack DP for this (or other dumb bits) though as I’ll just get accused of omgus. You guys can draw your own conclusions. Low energy response | ||
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I am not lynching Slam today. My 100% town read is obviously overblown but I think in general he is ok. I have become more suspicious of him recently but he's firmly in the list of unlynchables today. I am not lynching Trfel. My initial call still makes sense, mafia doesn't excitedly want to dump their shit in the thread. Mafia dreads posting. He's also been active albeit not very useful. I an not lynching DP today. His effort is high, his reads are mostly decent and his entire thread presence looks like someone that's actually trying. Love him stirring shit up like this. I am not lynching dmb today, if only for the fact that he's so annoyed at me for being me, yet still agrees through "independent research" that Vivax should be killed. You're a strong independent person! I am not lynching Koshi today. I went through his filter and he pretty much sees the game exactly as I do. He's half-assedly trying to break up what I agree are TvT fights. He calls Vivax boring before I do. Pretty good performance. I am not lynching rayn today. He's looked town for a while and immediately recognized me being town without any qualifiers or anything. This leaves the following list: Vivax Marv Sandroba Chezinu Holyflare Out of those Chezinu is just a crapshoot lynch if we have nothing better. We absolutely have something better. Holyflare hasn't really done much but I also have not really spotted any reason to kill him right now. If I was to guess a mafia team on this day 1 it'd be Vivax, Marv, Sandroba. I've somewhat said things about Sandroba and Vivax. The problem I have with marv is his unenthusiastic response to the Vivax accusation. Throw in the defeat-ist response just now to DP's case. It's not hard to tell a towny he's an idiot, but marv seems almost... too tired? I think the case against Vivax is the strongest one. I'll see if I can find time to flesh it out a little bit more into an actual case, but his filter is just sooo sooo boring and terrible. He's absolutely not trying to solve the game. As a side note, and this is mostly a personal thing, when I made my first list post I had opinions on pretty much everyone that has posted EXCEPT for Vivax. That's how unremarkable his contributions were. Unremarkable and boring is almost always mafia. As a side note, I had completely forgotten how rayn is like only 99% literate. It's hilarious the semantics and shit he gets stuck on and argues with. I'm pretty happy with this day one. | ||
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But that's still great odds. I humbly suggest we consider me god-emperor of this town. | ||
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On December 11 2023 20:28 Holyflare wrote: Also idk if this was clarified anywhere but is it 2 mafia or 3 with 12 people? Assuming 2 It's 3 | ||
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I used at least 10 words and at minimum 3 of them were big words. | ||
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On December 11 2023 22:03 marvellosity wrote: By the way Palmar, or anyone who cares to read. The reason for my responses to DP being low energy is that basically every game we played this year DP has made a mega case on me pointing out inconsistencies and incongruities (that aren’t true) and twisting my entire filter into a scummy narrative. The thing is, if he does this to me every time we play, sometimes I’m town, sometimes I’m mafia, but DP is only right sometimes because I am sometimes mafia. A broken clock is right twice a day. It is tiring hearing the same case over and over, as nothing in it ever makes me mafia, he has no idea how to read me, he just makes the same case every game. It’s tedious that that becomes the focal point of my attention, rather than happily bumbling along with my suspicions on sandro and Vivax. Yeah but DP isn't that hard to deal with. Even if you ignore his case and just spend energy on something else that's enough. You aren't doing that and you know it. You haven't even protested being in my shit tier list, because you know I should be thinking exactly this about you. | ||
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On December 11 2023 23:52 sandroba wrote: This post here also shows a mafia mindset, not arguing against the substance of what I'm saying, which is that his first post he did not read the thread and tried to reach a conclusion about my alignment, but instead he followed thread sentiment and quoted I few things from my post to appear to be contributing. In the post above he dismisses it as generic and quibbles about me not finding text pieces, which is classic mafia sentiment for "you are accusing me for the wrong reasons" Terrible post but good vote. | ||
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Palmar's guide to lynching Vivax Why we should lynch Vivax The case has been made pretty well by more people than me. The gist of it is that his early filter simply doesn't look like he's actually trying to solve the game. He's just floating along and asking boring questions. a particularly egregious one is this one: Like... who cares dude? How is this a thing? Then there's all the commentary on the thread "Palmar seems sure of himself" (no shit?), "rayn doesn't look eager for conclusions." Some random questions to random people with no appearance of any kind of critical thread he's chasing. I'm not gonna make a massive case because the essence is pretty much this: On December 11 2023 10:30 Palmar wrote: Jesus it’s so bad. Pointless commentary, terrible questions. Lots of nothing and very boring to boot. I didn’t laugh once. We found our first mafia boys. Get in while it’s still cool On December 11 2023 04:33 Koshi wrote: Vivax try to be slightly more fun. I would love you to not be mafia but you are painful to read. Like I honestly can't think of a more deserving day 1 lynch. Also for people who think "blue hunting" is a thing: On December 11 2023 10:39 die_meatbaby wrote: The problem is he looks so fucking scummy right now but i am not sure if i miss a blue point here. Defently not so green, but not worth a vote (for now) Which it obviously isn't and thinking this way is a very bad way of playing the game, Vivax already claimed VT so who cares. I have some reasons not to lynch all the other candidates (well maybe not sandroba, but whatever). Marv and HF will reveal themselves to be mafia if they are, and Chez would just be a default lynch if we had no options. Vivax is objectively the best lynch because I can't think of a single reason to keep him alive... How we should lynch Vivax If you're town your vote should be on Vivax and because of the weird deadline we should be incredibly resistant to shenanigans. If we last minute derail the lynch the chances are going down the drain we hit mafia AND it will reduce the information we have from the voting, even if I'm wrong (I'm not). The reason we lose information is that bunch of people will be sleeping at the deadline and thus cannot commit one way or another in any last minute vote train. If you don't agree with killing Vivax you need to present your findings as soon as possible, there really isn't that much left in the day. We don't need Rambo players in this town going after their own lynch. You're only allowed to be town and not vote Vivax if you can make the case that he isn't mafia. Just making a case one someone else (like DP on Marv) isn't enough. This isn't about bragging rights, it's about maintaining control. Also the first person who talks about the wagon being too easy should be shot. What Vivax's death means This is the hard part. If he flips mafia we get a bunch of good information. If he is mafia his friends have long since thrown him under the bus. Don't expect to find mafia in the resistance to the Vivax mafia lynch. If he flips town it's more likely to find mafia in the resistance, but probably among the less vocal resistance. People who seem unsure or claim to be happy to lynch Vivax but maybe want to lynch someone else? Those are the people you need to focus on. People who blindly sheep the case or do it because they genuinely believe in it are more likely to be town, regardless of alignment. Remember of course to only use the information up to this post, as I've just told the mafia how to appear town :D Honestly even if Vivax flips town I don't think I need to reconsider my list of people all that much. There's still people who are following the case in a townie way and scummy way. | ||
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On December 11 2023 23:40 marvellosity wrote: What do I need to spend energy on? You’ve come to the same conclusions as me (except on me). So I’m unsure what you propose I should be doing exactly. Voting Vivax would be a start. Or because you said you'd prefer sandroba, maybe try to get that done? Idk, I'm not your mom | ||
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On December 11 2023 23:56 sandroba wrote: @palmar not sure why you are including me in your scum teams either That'd be because you're mafia | ||
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On December 12 2023 00:26 Vivax wrote: ... that you're attempting to save in a only so slightly impressive fashion. I mean you also mafia, what can a guy do? | ||
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On December 11 2023 23:52 sandroba wrote: This post here also shows a mafia mindset, not arguing against the substance of what I'm saying, which is that his first post he did not read the thread and tried to reach a conclusion about my alignment, but instead he followed thread sentiment and quoted I few things from my post to appear to be contributing. In the post above he dismisses it as generic and quibbles about me not finding text pieces, which is classic mafia sentiment for "you are accusing me for the wrong reasons" This btw is a genuinely very scummy post. Not because of it's context but because of the thought process behind it. Sandroba can easily just say "well Palmar looks town so I go murder train on Vivax", but instead he does "independent research" and comes to the same conclusion to justify his vote. It's forced "case". This is a scummy post if Vivax flips mafia and it's also scummy if Vivax flips town. But the good thing is that it locks in Sandroba's vote on Vivax so I don't care for now. Can only lynch one dude today. | ||
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For now, he's town. | ||
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The clock is really winding down if anyone wants to lynch someone that isn't Vivax. You need to be aware of the deadlines. It's better to sheep the case for unity if you're town than be a rebel. | ||
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On December 12 2023 00:44 sandroba wrote: The main reason I though you looked town is that you were trying to get traction on vivax, who I thought was likely mafia - not that you were super town and because of that vivax should be mafia - that doesn't make any sense, and I wouldn't trust you without being convinced myself even if I though you were town. Sharing my reasoning there helps me clarify and reassess my thoughts, get feedback from the thread which helps my read and getting reads off others and also helps to convice other players of my desired lynch, all pro town things. The way you are trying to set this up and your reasoning is not making any sense, it feels either like pushing mafia agenda or if you had a pre conceived notion that I must be mafia, which I'm trying to get to the bottom of shush the town people are talking. Be a good boy and keep your vote on Vivax. | ||
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On December 12 2023 00:45 Trfel wrote: If this were eight years ago, even five years ago I could maybe see the points on marvellosity. But time has passed, things change. I don't feel like marvellosity's play is particularly scummy, sure he's less invested and involved than we all know he's capable of, but I don't think that makes him mafia. That just means that he's changed over the past five plus years, I know, shocker. It's a little scummy. He hasn't voted Vivax? But he also hasn't told everyone to go for his preferred lynch of Sandroba? Does he even care? I am but a humble boy yet everyone is doing what I say? If marv cared he could get people to do what he says? But this is not 100% mafia reasoning, but he's staying on my shit tier list for now. | ||
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On December 12 2023 02:18 marvellosity wrote: Can I just say, Hf, this is a really icky post. And you should know why. Did you like my shutting that shit down immediately? | ||
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On December 12 2023 05:19 Vivax wrote: Why am I getting lynched really. Not only are you missing out on me writing fun stuff but it‘s also the second of four games in which I‘d get D1d. Palmar‘s vanity wagon is just bullying. But that’s kinda the point. You aren’t writing anything funny. Also I never bully. I am a friend of the little guy. | ||
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On December 12 2023 06:47 DarthPunk wrote: ##unvote: Marv has done better since my case, and it doesn't have any traction regardless. But please don't let marv be lazy later on. It was a good case, almost as good as my oneliner. No need to feel discouraged. | ||
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On December 12 2023 16:59 DarthPunk wrote: Did anyone else feel the shockwave from palmars credibility collapsing from an all time high, right in front of our eyes 😂 I think my credibility is very much intact. That was a great lynch by me. | ||
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Slam got randomed it and invited me. That's the other and probably primary reason for his townread. He could have invited anyone really, and he had no idea I wouldn't really care about the whisperer thing. I think it's a slight townlean that he chose someone he openly mentioned pre-game thinking having an insight into his alignment. (I absolutely don't, I can't read troll players at all. I just policy lynch them occasionally or bully them). We haven't said anything useful in it. I think my only contributions for it are like "I'm not gonna talk about being inactive for a weekend, just to see who else talks about it" and "I'm gonna claim this thing tonight". | ||
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Marv just left his vote on Sandroba, was happy with the Vivax lynch but didn't actually push his own idea for a lynch very much. I know Sandroba eventually tied but that wasn't really thanks to marv. Standing by leaning null to scum. DP's switch, and the reasoning for me (why is Vivax calling me mafia when he doesn't need to) and the fact that he actively tried to get his lynch done looks pretty good. Standing by lean town. | ||
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On December 12 2023 18:00 DarthPunk wrote: Vivax would not have confirmed himself town without the context of impending death. At least not in the same way Good plan from Vivax to start playing after half the thread is sleeping. Very insightful. | ||
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HF slides a little towards scummy Still think DMB is more likely to be town There is a world where we need to attack Koshi and HF just to get them to do something. Shooting Chez is a good idea if we have a vigilante. He's never going to reveal his alignment through analysis. Checking into the less useful good players (marv, rayn, HF) Another thing, I think this list is important. From most to least influential day 1 town play (disregarding some of the bits I haven't caught up on from last night): Palmar DP Trfel Marv Koshi DMB Rayn Sandroba HF Slam Chezinu Aside from the trolls (bottom 2) I think it's somewhat important to think about how much people actually tried to get shit done on day 1. This is not a "bottom mafia, top town" list, but rather an indicator on how much I think people tried to get their vision of the game done in the game on day 1. Mafia likes to not be the initiating factor in town, but rather just follow along. | ||
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On December 12 2023 18:12 marvellosity wrote: I’m really not mafia, Palmar. And you need to understand this if we are going to win or town are going to lose. Can you explain some more about Slam for me please? I understood your point about the smiley question that gave you a townread early on, but I have concerns. I’m struggling that Slam believes I was assuming Koshi was town in that little drama that went down. Also, and I know this is very self centred, there’s a post Slam made where he said he could not ‘find any reason to scumread sandro’ (I am paraphrasing). Slam always pays attention to what I say, I find it hard to believe he brushes me under the carpet that easily. I can't and don't read troll players. My entire (and very much overblown) townread was based on 2 things 1. the smiley question 2. the fact he invited me to be his mason friend (which I don't think he'd do as mafia where he knows I'm town). Shooting slam is a good idea, same with Chez. | ||
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On December 12 2023 18:15 marvellosity wrote: And actually I had really, really good reasons for sandro lynch that are in my filter. And you’re right, I did push it too late. But I was happy with the Vivax lynch right up to near the end, which is when I started pushing my sandro stuff more. It really is as simple as that. There were good reasons to lynch Sandroba. I don't disagree with that. You barely pushed although you did not move. Vivax only started playing after you went to sleep and you did claim to be somewhat happy with the lynch. I don't care honestly. I'm probably gonna think you're mafia all game but I can actually work with that. It's just going to be super annoying for you. | ||
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On December 12 2023 18:19 marvellosity wrote: Chez only. We can get there on Slam. I think my concerns are valid though Problem is we need to threaten Slam with death to get him to do anything of value and even then it's a crapshoot. I don't wanna waste a day interrogating a random troll. We already had Vivax just not do anything of value for 47 hours only to get murdered on the weird deadline. But whatever yeah, shooting Chez is a good choice. | ||
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rayn also just kinda fucked off, but at least he confirmed me town. | ||
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On December 12 2023 18:25 marvellosity wrote: Also I have long made my peace that I am way better at reading you than you are me. Neat, so we agree I'm supertown? | ||
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On December 12 2023 18:20 DarthPunk wrote: I think you are both wrong that either of them are unreadable fwiw You can get there, but the effort is just not worth it. It's much easier to shoot trolls than to worry about them. Reading comprehensible people is a way better use of my time. | ||
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On December 12 2023 18:28 marvellosity wrote: Yes re - rayn, but I was not upset with any of the posts he actually made. Normally when he is mafia I get upset with what he is pushing. yeah rayn is further up the totem pole. Just not as helpful as I'd like him to be. | ||
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But his reads have been pretty much matching mine. | ||
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Trfel is lean town but he dropped off hard, rayn is also neat but also lazy HF, Sandroba and maybe marv are scumreads. some of today has made me think marv maybe a little less scummy so the other two are the ones I wanna murder I think Then we have slam and chez | ||
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On December 12 2023 18:37 DarthPunk wrote: @palmar I think it’s probably good to operate under the assumption that Marv is town for a bit and see what he does. That’s my plan anyway. I'm kinda already doing that. It's a pretty good dynamic. I think he's scum all the time, but also happily work with him to solve the game. It makes his life harder and I like my marv annoyed and on edge. He's still a good check. | ||
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On December 13 2023 05:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is Palmar top 1 contributor in his list when Palmar just lead a mislynch and DP top 2 was probably on mafia sandroba? Isn't that clear? Obviously the primary contributor to the day is the person who got his choice of lynch killed. I didn't say it was necessarily a positive contribution. The list is based on how hard and successfully people pushed their ideas in the thread You know mafia likes to sheep more than they like to lead. It's an important list, but only as extra evidence. No one got more shit done on day 1 than me. Doesn't really matter if I'm right or wrong. | ||
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On December 13 2023 05:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also the only person he ever tries to really get to vote for vivax is sandroba, and sandroba is also his scumread. no other people he personally advises to vote for vivax (aside from marv once). Palmar is it in your opinion that best play to convince people to lynch the dude you want, is to only try to get your mafia reads to vote on them, and noone else? I got my lynch lynched? Are you mad that I'm so much better at this than you that I barely need to work to get people to do what I want them to do? Why work hard when you're #1 | ||
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On December 13 2023 06:51 Koshi wrote:  I need to be lynched. Tomorrow I will try to read some more and be slightly more informed. Very annoying way to play as either faction. | ||
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He tried a lot, just didn't succeed much. Wrote many things. Also because as I was writing that list I realized marv was higher than I wanted him to be so I had to figure out some more people to put above him. | ||
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On December 13 2023 07:02 marvellosity wrote: You know a mafia can get more done on day 1 than anyone else, right? :p more at 9 | ||
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On December 13 2023 07:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Or like, after all, why is it an important list when the top 1 contributor was definitely wrong? Your skull is so thick. I'm essentially just trying to point out that some people worked hard to get shit done. Other people worked less hard to get shit done. The first is a town trait, the second is a mafia trait. It's not a 100% tell (or mafia would be easy). | ||
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On December 13 2023 07:06 DarthPunk wrote: By this metric you are basically calling yourself mafia LMAO. Ok, now read it again. | ||
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Thing is, I worked harder than anyone else in the thread because I directed town on day one. Now I didn't objectively have to post a lot because a page of oneliners from me is worth like 3 pages of bullshit from other people or more. Still makes me the towniest. | ||
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On December 13 2023 07:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: People who work hard in a mafia game or anything in normal work environment don't need to boost their ego with what they have done and especially how other people have done less than they have. The results are obvious. Anyway this is a stupid argument. It's again one of those things where you're like almost a real boy. | ||
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If slam and chez are both town, along with Vivax being a troll for some reason, this is gonna be a hard game. | ||
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On December 13 2023 07:11 DarthPunk wrote: This is straight nonsense, and actually fairly scummy. Which part is nonsense? | ||
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No please explain in detail. That part contains 3 statements. 1) I worked harder than anyone else in the thread because I directed town on day one - this one is self-evidently true. Clearly only the person who leads the lynch is working the hardest (or smartest). 2) Now I didn't objectively have to post a lot because a page of oneliners from me is worth like 3 pages of bullshit from other people or more. - This is also true. I have a shorter filter because my contributions are very good and effective at directing town. But I guess you can contest this a little bit 3) Still makes me the towniest - This is the one you can call bullshit. But please give me the three towniest people in the town then just so I know where you're at. | ||
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On December 13 2023 07:16 DarthPunk wrote: Palmar trying to tilt rayn is like the scummiest thing he has done so far. Is that alignment indicative for palmar in your opinion marv? Can't tilt that which was born tilted. | ||
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On December 13 2023 07:12 DarthPunk wrote: what do you think of Koshi palmar? Not read anything really since last night (I have some catching up to do) Still leaning on the fact that I liked his takes on most situations. But his whiny play is super annoying. | ||
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Anyone who wants the mason channel with me? | ||
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I'm a big fan of dmb dropping by with a post they've clearly put work into and eveyrone just straight up ignoring it. | ||
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If it was always the same person, at least there could be some interrogation pattern or whatever, or you could gain some info from who got selected or whatever. | ||
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I'm going to try the thing where I dump my preconceived notions and look into people. That and seeing if I actually care about anything sandro has to say. | ||
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On December 13 2023 23:33 marvellosity wrote: For the rest of the thread, this is the sort of thing town Palmar says and does Scummy post but I'll let it slide. | ||
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On December 13 2023 23:41 marvellosity wrote: Basically if sand wants to play this cycle, I am going to let him do it and not assume it’s all mafia agenda. He's messaging me with great vigor. We're discussing philosophy. | ||
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Water, stop being wet | ||
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On December 14 2023 00:15 marvellosity wrote: These updates aren’t going to get tiring at all Getting them from multiple sources? | ||
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On December 14 2023 02:48 Trfel wrote: I'm just going to vote for Chezinu, I think he is just mafia. We had a game in the past where we were town together and talked quite a bit, and a game in the past where we were scum together, in fact I think maybe two games, and his effort and engagement with the game feel very scummy. He's capable of much more as town, we all know this. You shouldn't have to beg him to interact with the game. He's even made plenty of posts, the time is there, the desire to do anything about solving the game is not. ##vote Chezinu The house of brown has found it time to end your mafia-ness. Scummy | ||
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On December 14 2023 04:36 Holyflare wrote: 0 words about me I mean you are pretty basic and forgettable | ||
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I'm obviously less certain than I was on day 1. I generally do my best work on day 1. Truffle looks a lot worse than on day 1. I remember my thoughts being "but at least he's trying" along with the impatience to dump his read into the thread. I can't really say he's trying anymore. DMB looks marginally worse, but I still feel like the posting tends to lean bad town. Marv looks a little better, and I really hope this is town marv. There are several warning signs though that I've almost decided to ignore and wait. Idk about the trolls, chez and slam. I'm just ignoring them for now. Rayn/HF/Koshi has a mafia, idk who but atm I'm leaning HF. I think it's really scummy that HF thinks I'm town. | ||
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For example, to day I initiated a mason thing with Sandro. Yesterday, slam initiated a mason thing with me. | ||
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On December 14 2023 19:08 marvellosity wrote: Is rayn mafia and that’s why the game makes no sense to me? This is a possibility. He's not frantically tunneling anything. That's pretty scummy. | ||
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On December 14 2023 17:33 marvellosity wrote: I feel like I suddenly have practically no townreads which is really awkward Gonna help me out, Palmar? Or am I wrong here too? Where’s rayn? DP was the towniest DMB is probably townread Slam is probably townread Koshi is annoying but probably townread You and I kinda need to work under the assumption we're town. The game is a little fucked if there's 2 mafia in the above list. Chez/HF/Trfel/Sandro/rayn is the list that needs to be lynched into The game is now at 3 mafia vs 7 townies, due to not having 13 players we may be in lylo tomorrow if things go badly, which is why it's really important to do a disciplined lynch today that if wrong at least gives a bunch of information. | ||
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On December 14 2023 19:26 marvellosity wrote: Palmar, can you look at rayn please? Like I said I just have this sense today that the game doesn’t make sense. And that’s usually because I am townreading someone I shouldn’t be. If rayn is maybe mafia, then sand is probably town? Rayn is gonna be mad at me here because I’m basically calling him possible mafia for no reason other than i feel weird. See this is what I mean by warning signs. While I absolutely can see rayn being scum, I don't see why that has any relation to sandroba's alignment. I really only believe in individual filter reading and I think you do too. I'm reading DMB at the moment, can look into rayn later today. I really should be reading Trfel but I just so much do not want to do that because boring. | ||
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I just do. I feel like town HF would be absolutely jackhammering me right now. | ||
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On December 14 2023 19:28 marvellosity wrote: Rayn came in and vote switched to sand d1 That really doesn't matter in my mind. Mafia does weird shit all the time. | ||
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On December 11 2023 11:26 die_meatbaby wrote: Just to make this clear my decision to vote for Vivax is based on my own analysis and not because your ego convinced me to vote who ever you think is scum. And yes your filter looks good but you still not town for me and I will read and analysis every post you will make until you lose a bit of this self believing god player stuff here. I genuinely think this begrudging acceptance of the Vivax lynch is towny. It's hard for me to think about scum doing this, unless I just assume DMB is completely new and does the most basic of scum trappings. Same with this: On December 12 2023 11:39 die_meatbaby wrote: Fuck i don´t have a good feeling on lynch V right now. This looks so Townie just trying to not get killed. Fells like impulsive posts from emotions to keep playing. Even if you think this is a TMI post, this followup here: On December 12 2023 11:58 die_meatbaby wrote: this is fucking town Makes it much more believable that there is genuine frustration here at work. Overall I believe dmb when he's complaining about stuff like me being me. I do wish we had more contributions to go on, but to me the option of lynching DMB today, and even tomorrow, is probably not on the table. | ||
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On December 14 2023 19:30 Holyflare wrote: Did sandro not saying anything useful in your mason chat despite asking for it? Well I do admit to not being the easiest person to talk to. He almost exclusively wanted to talk about Trfel being mafia. I can summarize the chat quickly if you like. | ||
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Sandroba asks me about my thoughts and I claim to be happy with the game state. Sandroba wants to know why because he thinks town is fucked if Trfel is mafia. I claim he isn't so Sandroba asks me if I'm mafia which I deny. I claim to be happy because Sandroba is being lynched. He is clearly a little annoyed here and asks me to assume he's town and give him mafia team. I dump some combo of HF/Chez/marv/trfel/koshi which is what I thought at the time. I talk about how I generally miss one mafia completely after he points out I just said Trfel is town. Sandroba says he's getting "mafia tells" from chez. I say he's a troll and lynching him is pointless at the moment. Sandroba says he's going with Trfel and I double down on "Trfel is town". I say it's scummy that HF thinks I'm town and ask sandroba for reasons trfel is mafia. He says he'll summarize in the thread and I complain about having to read. I suggest sandroba claims a blue role, but he says he doesn't know I'm town. Asks me why I want to know. I say it's because I need information to decide on the night kill. Sandroba keeps talking about Trfel, tells me to read DP's post. I complain about Trfel being boring to read and ask him to talk about his potential blue claim. He says I'm not giving him town vibes. I disagree. I tell him to assume I'm mafia and ask him for strategy advice for mafia. Ask him who I should misynch excluding Trfel claiming that would be counterproductive. He points out that my line of "note, I'm not claiming mafia, this is all hypothetical" is scummy. I disagree and say it's towny. I claim sandroba is null to me, not scum. He says I better get reading then, I disagree and say I'm happy with the game state. He asks me to read Trfel again and I say that would be counterproductive. He complains about my refusal to talk about Trfel. Sandroba complains again that I should engage with him. I say I'm just taking Trfel off the table and say I'm willing to talk about his blue claims, mafia strategy, night kills, other players. I offer him to talk about how town I am as well. He reiterates that my read on Trfel would help him form an opinion on me and calls my suggests my topics are troll topics (somewhat fair...) I start calling Trfel scummy based on nothing but the 4 page filter. But immediately switch to talking about the DP night kill. He says I'm wrong on everything. I start saying mafia would want to NK me because leadership, and start listing off why players wouldn't be shot. He says mafia wants me alive cause all my reads suck. He complains about me calling him scum early, I praise my point about slam smiley face analysis. He asks me to stop trolling, we go back to the DP NK conversation where he claims I'm alive because I was wrong, and I claim I'm alive because mafia was afraid I would be protected. Some more points by me about how everyone liked DP and he disaagrees. Sandro talks about Trfel again, says he's gonna post in the thread and says he wants me to comment on it. I say I have an agenda to push in the thread so I probably won't and then I had to leave. | ||
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On December 14 2023 19:45 Holyflare wrote: I will never accept anyone as a player that lets chez get away with surviving if it comes down to that at end game btw. I am like 99% sure he's mafia and we don't have a way to deal with it. Would rather lynch someone that gives us information today obv but do not wifom yourself out of letting him live if you need to make that decision later in the game. This is actually correct. If in lylo with Chez alive, you just hold your breath and lynch him. It's annoying but that's the optimal play as much as it sucks. | ||
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a) he's too reasonable and doesn't get annoyed enough at my trolling and mafia claiming. I feel like a townie would just have told me to shut up and stop being an idiot. b) his interests are way too focused on Trfel and Trfel only. I never felt like he randomly wanted to talk about other shit . I still think sandro may be based on our interactions in that chat. | ||
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I just wanna kill sandroba. | ||
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On December 14 2023 21:23 Trfel wrote: Palmar, may I ask why my play is so boring to you? Show me where you've actually had an impact on town sentiment. | ||
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On December 14 2023 23:01 Trfel wrote: That's not something that is in my control? I am truly confused, I can say what I say but it's up to others if they believe it or not? This is not true. A good townie who actually believes his ideas will push for his ideas to be recognized. Aimless commentary that no one listens to is what mafia really, really wants. | ||
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On December 14 2023 23:30 Trfel wrote: Your initial townread of Palmar was due to thinking Vivax was mafia, correct? Since Palmar was the main person pushing Vivax, it makes sense that if Vivax is mafia, Palmar is town. I am wondering why you kept thinking Palmar is town after Vivax flipped town? I know you recently flipped to scumread him but there was quite a delay between those events. This is not how the game works. If sandroba believed I was town for pushing Vivax because he agreed, why would me being wrong change his mind? By that logic he should scumread himself for also having been wrong. | ||
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On December 14 2023 23:35 marvellosity wrote: All I can say is, if we flip you and I’m wrong and you’re town, I won’t ignore what you’ve said about Palmar. Because I am petrified I am just being his cheerleader and I’m leading town into oblivion. But I just don’t think so. See, the warning signs. I hate them. But I also can't deal with it now so I'm going to continue ignoring. | ||
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On December 14 2023 23:37 sandroba wrote: I don't think I'll be able to convince anyone Palmar is mafia today due to how much people already suspect me. I'd be down to lynch DMB/Chezinu. To anyone who is town: Please let's rally and find a good lynch today. Don't let the mafia steamroll this lynch on me and be in the same spot tomorrow with DMB and Chezinu alive, being convinced by Palmar and his cheerleader they were just wrong and now we must lynch Trfel or w/e. The list on you is me, Koshi, Marv and Holyflare. You say "don't let the mafia steamroll this lynch on me". Are these mafia-steamrollers in the room with us right now? | ||
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On December 14 2023 23:41 marvellosity wrote: If you don’t think I’m right to be nervous, you’re insane. Point is we both are. If Sandroba somehow flips green that means both our top 2 scum reads on day 1 were wrong. If we are somehow both town in that situation we almost deserve to lose. And I can't really complain too much because I will have been wrong twice... just as much as you. In a game where tomorrow is lylo, this is a very, very scary proposition. Today's lynch may decide the game. Which is why I'm trying to figure out if there is a chance yesterday was TvT. | ||
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Still don't really understand why you wanted me to mason you, if I'm going to be convinced by you as town it's going to be here, not in a private topic. | ||
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On December 14 2023 23:45 marvellosity wrote: Exactly! So that makes you nervous of me. Like im nervous of you. And, if we’re both town, that’s natural. It shouldn’t be sending warning signs to you because you have exactly the same outlook…. warning signs/nervousness What I mean by that in general I'm happy to consider you lean town. What I'm unhappy about is that occasionally I fall over a post that I stop and think "hey that looks.... weird?" But I'm 100% in agreement that for today the only play is to consider each other confirmed town to reduce the work that needs to be done. In fact, I am going to start handing out incredibly cheap town reads just to make life easier. | ||
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On December 14 2023 23:43 sandroba wrote: You and marv, if you are an annoying lazy bum who is losing this game for town by yourself, Marv and Koshi I'm not at fault here. The primary goal of every townie is to not get lynched. If all townies follow that advice, town only lynches mafia. Job 1: don't be lynched Job 2: help find mafia | ||
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On December 14 2023 23:50 sandroba wrote: Rest of town: Don't let both these clowns decide anything. They are either Mafia or terrible. I want them to look at my filter and freaking justify this retarded lynch. It will be super easy to just say "well shucks we were wrong again guys" if they are not forced to produce bullshit reasons for voting for me. Just don't get lynched bro | ||
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What I don't do is agonize over the lynch on day 2 when I'm not even on the menu. | ||
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Sandroba, or any readable player, gives far more information. Everybody voting chez would be doing it for the same reason. | ||
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This Chez lynch is such a crapshoot. But I'm almost tempted to just not do anything about it and see it through. I feel like the game is in a bad state at the moment so maybe rolling the dice is a good idea. | ||
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I'm actually unsure how to deal with the entire game. I don't know who is mafia and it's so much effort to figure it out. I'm still annoyed that sandroba never gave me anything other than Trfel. He didn't talk about rayn hf koshi slam etc at all. I'm also more suspicious of Trfel by the minute but he's probably a weaker one. My list is something like this at the moment dmb marv slam koshi hf trfel chez rayn sandroba The crazy part is, I wouldn't even be surprised if someone told me one of my townreads is mafia. I actually think it's quite likely. I feel a little lost. And the time schedule again is so annoying. I want to believe I would have stopped killing Vivax on day 1 if he had defended himself while I was awake. I could've interrogated him and pushed him and forced him to look town. But everything was disjointed and bad. The chez lynch is an admittance we don't know what we're doing. Sadly maybe that is exactly what we need, stall the game into tomorrow and hope for a better day and maybe a blue miracle or so. | ||
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We're all morons, let's do a policy lynch. That's always fun idea. | ||
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On December 15 2023 07:17 sandroba wrote: Palmar never engaged with me in the chat, he didn't try to get any reads out of me today and yesterday was unwilling to engage with my Trfel read. Before he signed off yesterday, he said he thinks I'm town and let's talk about to talk about dmb and rayn tomorrow. But today he messaged twice asking me to claim blue and that was it. It's disingenuous to characterize it as I didn't talk about reads since he was purposely derailing and reverting back to trolling everytime the conversation was getting to a good place. He has 0 reasons to scum-read me and plenty of reasons to town-read me. DMB has no way to be on his top town reads. To be fair i was lying when I called you town. | ||
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On December 15 2023 07:24 sandroba wrote: Nah, you just slipped out of compassion for my frustration. Why would you lie about this? Found it funny! | ||
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On December 15 2023 08:53 Chezinu wrote: If I was mafia we would lose a blue... oh wait.. Just dump your reads | ||
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On December 15 2023 09:13 Chezinu wrote: I did. Truffle and Sandroba. I know yall be like, they can't be on same team cause how they talk. I get mafia vibes from both. But I am red/blue blindness. So I would believe sand's claim. I really am busy. Wasn't able to troll with AI themes as I planned. I'll skim real quick. Most people haven't be on in my evenings. No I absolutely think Trfel and Sandroba can be on the same team. | ||
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Also, while this is not necessarily a strong scum-tell, it always felt like he was doing the "right thing" in pushing for a lynch he likes. My interactions with him felt like he wasn't annoyed and incredulous enough at being accused of being mafia. He almost "accepted" being called mafia and tried to push for a different lynch. Now this isn't a scummy thing in itself, a good townie will push for alternative lynches, but the problem is I feel like townies tend to almost always get angry about being called scum when they aren't. It's largely an emotional read on sandro. | ||
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Town is going for a policy lynch, which may be the correct move. But holy shit is it annoying that we're clueless enough on day 2 to have to perform a policy lynch. | ||
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HF does look marginally better. I'm not even kidding that my primary concern with him is that he thinks I'm town. He generally just isn't this good at reading me, but I'm relying on 4 year old meta. rayn is highly likely mafia. | ||
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If chez flips mafia we buy time. If he doesn't we're in the endgame. | ||
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On December 15 2023 09:56 die_meatbaby wrote: ignoring me because you are afraid of getting caught by a newbie girl here. Fourth game, english bad as fuck and still fucking catching your scum ass here Very proud of you! | ||
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If you want to figure out my alignment, there is only one question you need to answer, really. I lead town as both alignments. I’m cocky as both alignments. But I only genuinely believe what I’m saying as one alignment. Go back and read day 1 with no other purpose than to try and figure out if I genuinely thought Vivax was mafia. That one answer is enough. | ||
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On December 15 2023 10:05 die_meatbaby wrote: this is why I fucking hate to vote on chez. The time I am 100 % sure he is scum he coming with this shit. Is this Town acteping lynch or scum giving up? Hey we agree on that. I don’t like the fact we’ve resorted to a policy lynch. But it’s the best we could do today. | ||
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Not good enough. I desire green blessings. | ||
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On December 15 2023 10:11 die_meatbaby wrote: Played one game with chez where he was blue but he give the sings like posting memes in blue or songs with word in it. I understood after the lynch the signs. So pretty sure scum or mabye low chance green Played a million games with him. He’s actually not bad at this. But due to the way he plays it rarely comes through. Best case scenario is to have him in a strong town that is doing well because he’s easy bait for mafia to attack. But that requires more certainty than we have atm. | ||
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On December 15 2023 16:51 Koshi wrote: Palmar, if sandroba and tfrel are town, rayn mafia, your filter gets really icky. I can see the mafia propaganda dripping of it. Seems like a thing to worry about later. | ||
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We have bought time. | ||
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dmb tried to save Vivax on day 1. If sandroba is town and dmb is mafia, why do that? It creates a massive opening for people to attack if Vivax gets last minute saved and town is lynched. That move makes even less sense if sandroba is mafia. | ||
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sandroba Trfel HF This is the lynch pool, in order from scummy to less scummy. These players need to be focused on and read by everyone. It's important to remember the pacing of the game and recognize the phase we're in. We just got a good policy lynch off, giving us some information, but we're still only a mislynch away from lylo 7v2 NK -> 6v2 ML -> 5v2 NK -> 4v2 (day 4, lylo) ML -> 3v2 NK -> 2v2 If we bag another mafia lynch tomorrow, we buy ourselves a mislynch. This means we need to focus on straightforward scum today. Tinfoil ideas should be kept at bay at the moment. Stick with your reasonable reads and don't get lost in the tunnels. | ||
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On December 15 2023 20:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's hilarious i am scumread. It's okay though, means i don't have to play then, your fault. Gonna write about who i think is mafia later. Good job Slam until you started getting cold feet. ^^ See you precisely have to play when you're scumread. Looking forward to your contributions. | ||
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On December 16 2023 04:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sorry that was all i have to say for now. Come on don’t be a tease | ||
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On December 16 2023 04:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Nah i just think it makes you mafia you say youre lost when your rest of post says you should not based on what you have thought before and after. It’s called waffling | ||
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Otherwise I am looking forward to this. | ||
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On December 16 2023 16:48 marvellosity wrote: Palmar, are you going to play to try to find mafia today, or are you just hunkering down to defend yourself? Neither really. We’re weekend posting. The game is actually quite simple from my point of view. There are only 3 options. Rayn HF Sandroba. All I need to do is figure out who is the best lynch | ||
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Yes but I forgot Trfel. He can be mafia. I will listen if someone disagrees on dmb. But so far my town reads have been good and with a mislynch available I feel like the right course of action is to follow the simple path. | ||
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On December 16 2023 17:55 Trfel wrote: What happened to me being possible mafia? Forgot you existed. | ||
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On December 16 2023 18:01 marvellosity wrote: The town explanation is really, really easy. Palmar wakes up on 2nd 48h of day 1. Decides to filter Vivax. Sees its trash. Wants to lynch him. Poetry | ||
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On December 16 2023 10:29 die_meatbaby wrote: Tip top Town: Alakslam Marv Town HF Rayn Sandro not Town: Koshi Trfel def. not Town PALMAR Despite earlier, ewww | ||
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I mean half my read is just that she’s so scummy that she can’t be scum. Also very wrong which you know…. happens to the best of us | ||
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On December 16 2023 22:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar can you make a post about why it's reasonable to assume i am mafia with (1) sandroba or (2) holyflare? I don’t make associative reads | ||
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On December 16 2023 23:25 marvellosity wrote: You realise in a sense, and this probably excites you, this game is all about you? Assuming you’re town (which I do) then some people who are suspicious of you are town, some mafia. As you say, a townies job is not to get lynched. So somehow you need to persuade the townies suspicious of you that you aren’t it. Then the game falls into place. Of course the game is all about me. I’m me. I honestly don’t think I’m in much dangerous of being lynched. | ||
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Like have you at any point in this game tried to argue that someone is town? | ||
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In my defense, phoneposting and auto-correct. | ||
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On December 17 2023 00:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also honestly dont believe this. I guess i should read his filter more closely a he is dead, but still. I felt his reads were clear and sensible pretty much the entire game. | ||
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On December 16 2023 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: Do youthink that's something that makes me mafia? I mean like its probably the easiest thing to do as mafia, call townies town for correct reasons. I also heavily abuse that fact as mafia. I dont care if you do associative reads or not. I find it suspicious that the people who i sm literally the least likely to be mafia with ate the ones you geoup with me being mafia with snd just sit on that. Also i disagree that i had no influence on the game. Its true i have not been as active as usual. But i was a key factor to almost change the lynch from Vivax to sandroba D1, and i also believe i was one of the key votes to lynch Chezinu. In order cause phoneposting. Not necessarily but it’s different from what I do. I said I can’t remember if it’s normal for you. Again, I don’t think this way. Maybe I’m wrong on something. Maybe mafia is playing lone wolf. I just don’t care at all who is likely to be mafia with who. It has no impact on how I think about any game. You HAVE been active. You have one of the longest filters in the game. You just haven’t been influential. | ||
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His filter is actually pretty good and I’m completely taking him off the table for today’s lynch. Problem is he’s probably the scariest mafia player here. But that’s tinfoil territory. | ||
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a) I have assigned you a townread on me. I need you now to explain why you think I’m town b) you can pick one of of Sandroba/hf and explain to me why they’re mafia. | ||
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On December 17 2023 03:26 Trfel wrote: Palmar, do you have any thoughts on point (1) above? Something I am missing or not understanding maybe? No not really. Slam is a troll player who did some things that I thought might be townie. Day 1: slam does something townie so he gets a pass N1/D2: slam does very little I think is townie, so my townread fades a little N2/D3: slam helped kill mafia, so he renews his pass I would still fully support a vigilante killing him. He is very difficult to read and because he doesn't really play the game it's hard to figure out his alignment. But what little I can divine into his alignment leads me to think that he's more likely to be town than not. | ||
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On December 17 2023 04:25 sandroba wrote: Marv, if palmar is town why not leave Koshi alive and kill you? Consider the wifom case: What combo of players would ever benefit from killing Koshi instead of you if Palmar is town? Bro if I'm mafia I'm 100% killing koshi and not marv. marv is literally hard defending me all game. | ||
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On December 17 2023 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can you Palmar tell me, if i am to flip mafia here, how are you going to go for the next day? How do you reason either sandroba or Holyflare being mafia? Again, I don't do associative reads and I don't care what deaf mafia say. Do you agree with my townreads? (dmb, trfel, slam) | ||
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On December 17 2023 09:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: The only reason why i see something can't make sense to you is because you think about "what is the mafia team" besides the players who seem scummy to you. Otherwise you shouldn't have any problem on why the game doesn't make any sense. The list posts don't reflect who I think is a "mafia team" It reflects who I think is most likely to flip mafia. I am also not all that confused anymore. Throw in that I refuse to consider marv as he's permanent null and I'm really down to like 3 people. Obviously AT LEAST one of them is town. | ||
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On December 17 2023 09:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why are you so confused if ray / sandroba is mafia? If we are both individually scummy (as you seem to be saying), why are you confused about what the stance of the game is? Isn't it simple, rayn and sandroba are mafia? No, that's not what I said. I can only lynch one person today. I intend to lynch whoever is the scummiest, which is why I'm trying to get shit out of you guys. | ||
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On December 17 2023 09:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes i agree with those reads. What's your read on marv then? | ||
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If we just make a truce for the moment, who do you think is more likely to flip mafia, HF or sandroba? | ||
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I can... kinda accept why sandroba wants to lynch me. I absolutely did troll the fuck out of him in that mason topic because I'm a bit of a dick. But also, I don't think the mason topics are useful, I said as much on day 1. Why wouldn't I just post in the thread. I'm not entirely sure if it's genuine frustration with my dickery, or if it's just an excuse to scumread me. HF on the other hand hasn't really given me much. | ||
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So we just lynch HF? | ||
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But that's really neither here nor there. I haven't really read HF's filter. Trfel is the one I did today and I genuinely like most of his posting. | ||
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On December 17 2023 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: I dont wanna do that right now because he was the only person being reasonable with me last night (lol) when noone else was. I can do whatever i want tomorrow. Do you have a case on him? I know my case is considered irrelevant for everyone else in the game already. As I said, I don't really. The points I have against him right now are: 1) He did very little early in the game. He was at the bottom of my "people who did shit on day 1" list outside of chez/slam 2) I genuinely expected HF to get into a massive argument with me on night 1 for being wrong on Vivax. 3) Like I've accused you of, I don't think he has changed any hearts and minds in this town. | ||
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On December 17 2023 09:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think this is a good basis of a scumread. No it's not really. | ||
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On December 17 2023 09:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can agree to 1 and probably to 3 as well. Not so much on 2. Question to you; based on 3, you think i haven't done that? Maybe not in a way you like but like you think i haven't made any major discussions happen for instance? It's because you're changing the question. Yes, you have been involved in a lot of discussions. But I don't think you've often succeeded in convincing people of your point of view. | ||
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Do you sincerely believe if HF and I are the remaining mafia we have a play here to bus each other and the other one thinks they can somehow last until endgame? | ||
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I really need a third party to read this discussion (marv? trfel?) and give their stance on it. Can throw in their stance on me as well. | ||
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On December 17 2023 09:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you are the last remaining mafia, what other play you have? And no i am not sure about it, which is why i said i am not sure about it Hard to speculate what to do as mafia, but I think I've been pretty much the only thing standing in the way of dmb being lynched. Marv seems to like the idea of killing her, so does Trfel. I think that might be the play. At least bring the game to lylo. | ||
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No idea if it's relevant information. | ||
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On December 17 2023 10:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: but then again i dont really think sandroba is mafia I kinda could see him be one, I'm mostly just backing off him because I'm sheeping marv. | ||
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On December 17 2023 10:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Gamewise the best play is to lynch sandroba here. Because then i can tell if there is a reason to be mad at me (if he is mafia) or not (if he is town) for my vote on Chezinu. Like, i find it very very weird that like the whole game finds my vote (they find unreasonable) on Chezinu "scummy as fuck", when i voted for mafia. I fucking voted to kill the mafia roleblocker. It does not sit well with me, that everyone thinks i am mafia because i voted to kill mafia, just because "rayn didn't reason his vote properly". Do people really think i don't reason my votes (especially on mafia -- bussing) properly?????????? It's fucking insane. For the record, as I've said multiple times, my suspicions of you don't come because of that vote. I've laid out quite nicely what issues I had, and one of them (lack of finding townies to eliminate from the lynch pool) you've actually remedied now. | ||
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I'm ready to get hurt again baby. | ||
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On December 17 2023 10:14 Trfel wrote: I know I'm not sandroba though. This is a plus. | ||
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On December 17 2023 10:19 sandroba wrote: Poker about to start, will come back tomorrow booo | ||
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On December 17 2023 10:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am also saying Palmar is obvious mafia barring the conversation we had. Do you have an opinion of yours on that? Very rude | ||
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On December 17 2023 10:41 Trfel wrote: Honestly I'm just not seeing Palmar as mafia. Like theoretically it could be possible, but I'm not sure if Palmar's play this game is in the range of his scum play (to be fair I don't really know what his scum play range is, I just was under the impression that it wasn't quite on the level of someone like you or Holyflare). I looked through his filter, there were a few things that came up but nothing seriously scummy. One of the main points I had on him ended up having a somewhat plausible explanation. Furthermore, I do believe marvellosity is town and I trust marvellosity's read on Palmar, he said he's going to re-evaluate that over the course of the day but for now that's still a townread. I think perhaps the most likely answer is that one of my assumptions are wrong and that Holyflare or sandroba or Alakaslam is mafia. I have no idea why they would be mafia though, I'm hoping to get through some filter dives sooner or later. Very polite | ||
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On December 17 2023 21:27 Holyflare wrote: Everyone should have a vote down already and yet there's 2 vote for palmar and 1 for DMB. DMB, despite perpetually entering the thread and saying things and yelling from the mountaintops that Palmar is mafia has voted Palmar how many times this game? You got it. 0. If you think this, why are you voting me and not dmb? | ||
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On December 17 2023 21:29 Holyflare wrote: If you're a townie and you haven't voted yet then do so. I don't care if you're unsure, hold yourself accountable. Ok | ||
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On December 17 2023 23:09 die_meatbaby wrote: and i was on the vivax lynch until you could see the emtions coming when he was under pressure and tried to chance that lynch with dp together. Palmar is since D1 my nr.1 scumread and i will not get that from my head out. But still I was goeing with the chez lynch So you agreed with me right up until after I had gone to sleep and Vivax actually started playing? You have to remember that Vivax' filter WAS terrible when I was jackhammering him, and you agreed. | ||
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On December 17 2023 23:20 Holyflare wrote: If you want to know why I think Palmar is mafia I think you just look at what he's doing over a large span of time rather than individual posts and arguing over semantics. I think his world view is not narrowing, it's expanding. He listed 3 town reads for example, one of them being DMB, and yet has simultaneously thrown out things like "DMB has not really mentioned HF" and "oh, what about DMB?" etc etc. His read on you is ??? he purports a town read but it's basically a null. His view on rayn? Who knows, he makes it seem like he doesn't have one. I don't think there's really anyone in the game that you can say Palmar has a definitive outlook on. Slam is now someone who should get vigged, which is blatantly just a catchphrase at this point because it's obvious we don't have a vig so it's just empty words. This is just wrong, I have made my reads clear on pretty much anyone. Of course I'm town so I don't actually know so some of them are not "100% town never lynching" reads. You mentioned my town reads, which I assume would be dmb, slam and trfel. You completely ignored that I had a discussion with rayn and specifically posted that I don't think he's scum. On December 17 2023 10:07 Palmar wrote: For the rest of the thread.. I kinda don't think rayn is mafia. This has been too good. I'm ready to get hurt again baby. I also said that I think sandroba may still be mafia but I'd back off simply to sheep marv: On December 17 2023 10:04 Palmar wrote: I kinda could see him be one, I'm mostly just backing off him because I'm sheeping marv. And yes, marv is a null read, I'll give you that. But that's ONE player that I don't have an opinion on. I even mentioned that it didn't really matter because I wasn't going to deal with that right now. | ||
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On December 18 2023 00:08 die_meatbaby wrote: How can you be sure that somebody is 100% town before there was even a lynch. Just trying to be save with the strong Townplayers. Because you and Slam are strong Town players. Btw this is the kind of shot why I don’t wanna lynch dmb. It’s just so stupid it’s hard for me to believe mafia. | ||
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On December 18 2023 00:16 die_meatbaby wrote: you guys can tell me I am paranoid about palmar beeing mafia but that it just an insane mafia play right there I need you to pull head out of ass here if you’re town. If my game is so insane why did you find out so easily and on such trivial things? You keep quoting an 11 year old game with completely different mechanics. I know you’re not going to listen to me but maybe listen to the people who actually have an understanding of how I play this game? | ||
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On December 18 2023 01:49 sandroba wrote: Just had a stupid idea - if mafia has a vigi and somehow the shot on marv got blocked (marv vet or town jailer) then I guess it's somewhat possible HF is mafia if the shots were marv + koshi. Mafia doesn’t have extra kp | ||
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On day 1 he asked about the number of mafia team members. That was such an immensely stupid post that I’m not sure if scumhf has the balls to do it. But if anyone has the balls it also might be him. | ||
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Because the game is (due to 12 and not 13 people) already mafia favored. With no blues mafia wins in third mislynch. If mafia has extra kp AND roleblocker town would be swimming in blue roles and we would already have seen claims. It’s like 99% that there is one more blue in the game, probably an investigation role because we already have seen one survival role and we haven’t seen a vig shot. This is all completely pointless of course and doesn’t help us today | ||
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On December 18 2023 02:22 Alakaslam wrote: Helped a bit, you made me not sure again 🤷♂️ This post from me is NAI slam…. | ||
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On December 18 2023 02:41 Alakaslam wrote: Wait, I know exactly what to do. Check the voting thread then ask me why. Why? | ||
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On December 18 2023 02:28 Alakaslam wrote: It is and it isn't If you are not thinking things through (usually I am not) the earlier remark you made can look like tmi Then you cleared up how you could estimate such a thing with great certitude. I’m not stupid enough to make a TMI mistake as mafia. In fact when I corrected HF on day 1 I was hoping to bait out some stupid TMI accusations. | ||
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On December 18 2023 02:49 Alakaslam wrote: Where does it leave us? It leaves you able to be saved by either of Rayn or Trfel. I TR HolyFlare. You are so strange. rayn is not gonna vote me unless he’s mafia and I really really don’t think he is. Town rayn will begrudgingly accept marv’s hard townread on me. | ||
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But it’s still really annoying that 3 strong players who know marv and I read each other well enough to pretty much make playing mafia against each other a complete pain in the ass, just ignore that knowledge. Dmb has an excuse, a classic pebkac. | ||
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Sandroba | ||
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On December 18 2023 03:21 sandroba wrote: You are just taking that at face value because you thought I was mafia. Palmar never explained why he thought so, even in the QT. Wait why would I explain to you why I think you’re mafia in private. That’s like the most pointless thing ever. | ||
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Maybe I’ll try in a future game lol | ||
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Maybe take your own advice and go read my other stuff in the game. | ||
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On December 18 2023 03:41 sandroba wrote: Again with this charade, unless you are mafia you don't know who the mafia is so you don't convince them of anything, you just talk to people to get a better shot of figuring them out I did EXACTLY this last night with rayn. Does that mean nothing to you? | ||
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On December 18 2023 04:00 sandroba wrote: Not at all, it's based on you not doing what I think town you would do Do you think you have better insight into my play than marv. Because according to him I’m doing exactly what town me would do. | ||
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On December 18 2023 04:12 die_meatbaby wrote: rather lynch me than HF. Better do lose a normal Town then losing a blue one! I will die for Town and i will not care but i will not be with a lynch our hope for a vigi or something else what could help. Wtf is this | ||
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On December 18 2023 04:13 sandroba wrote: I was pretty angry in thread, not sure how it didn't come across to you. D2 you had very little to no influence in the game and today you are not being angry as you claim you would be. Cause I don’t think I’ll be lynched. | ||
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On December 18 2023 04:14 die_meatbaby wrote: stop that HF lynch I really do not think this is scum. Yes but in theory you know that you aren’t. You can be wrong on HF. We know you’re wrong on me. This is terrible play regardless of your alignment. | ||
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On December 18 2023 04:50 sandroba wrote: Palmar attacks Trfel for a very good post on Chezinu. Everything Trfel is saying here is true. I’ve changed my mind on Trfel Pls respond | ||
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On December 18 2023 04:51 sandroba wrote: Reading your filter currently, didn't get to the Rayn exchange yet. Was there anything else you asked? Yes. You summarized your read on me as me not doing what you’d expect me to as town, which I find amusing because that’s pretty much exactly the same read as marv has in me but with completely opposite conclusion. Do you think your expectations of me are more reliable than marv’s? | ||
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1 and 3 are similar. You’re just kinda… there. I mean if you think I’m scum it means you joined a mafia led wagon on day 1. Don’t you think that might be a reason to do something? 2 is just… experience. I often lead day 1 lunches and I dread mislynching with you in the game because you sometimes tunnel it so hard. That’s at least one of the meta reads I have on you. | ||
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On December 18 2023 05:03 Holyflare wrote: Palmar, after you've answered my questions what are the odds that marv is mafia from your perspective? Is he capable of stooping to a new low with that sandro stuff? I refuse to address this topic. | ||
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On December 18 2023 05:14 Holyflare wrote: Can you tell me a time you've ever seen me be lazy and meander through a game doing not much as mafia? I'll wait the eternity it takes you to find one. No but not as town either. So I default to what I think about a generic player. | ||
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On December 18 2023 05:15 Holyflare wrote: Especially when my partner is up for a wagon? You think I sit back and let that happen? Depends on if you think you can save him. I didn’t fight the chez lynch either. In fact if you read my contributions on it they’re pretty townie, because as scum I would either have hard defended him, or bussed him to gain some credit. I just called it a policy lynch and accepted it. | ||
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On December 18 2023 05:16 Holyflare wrote: The last at least 3 games on this site I have done exactly that. As town. So you’re worse now? 🤣 | ||
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On December 18 2023 05:17 Palmar wrote: Depends on if you think you can save him. I didn’t fight the chez lynch either. In fact if you read my contributions on it they’re pretty townie, because as scum I would either have hard defended him, or bussed him to gain some credit. I just called it a policy lynch and accepted it. Man sometimes I even surprise myself with my townieness | ||
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On December 18 2023 06:51 Alakaslam wrote: Essentially, usually Marv and Palm are so good, that one need not think and can just sheep them This isn't true this game, but there is no evidence of them having gotten any more foolish. It could be that the rest of us have gotten SO fucking bad that everyone is unreadable, but I doubt this enough to feel it is time to lynch Of all people Palmar. Bad slam. Don't overthink the game. | ||
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I will absolutely vote dmb to save myself if I have to! | ||
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On December 18 2023 06:16 marvellosity wrote: Are you guys actuallly going to lynch Palmar? You better be right or I am going to be unbearable after the flip. Then again if I’m wrong it’s massive mafia depression so it’s lose lose really… I'm a little tempted to actively try to get lynched just to see this. | ||
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On December 18 2023 07:39 Holyflare wrote: I notice you didn't interact with my very townie criticisms, which is understandable. I didn't? | ||
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Let's say all the people who have been threatening to lynch me actually jump in, so that's the 3 current votes + rayn and sandroba. Well, since I'm town, not all of those 5 people are town. Find me one mafia in that list. | ||
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On December 18 2023 07:42 Holyflare wrote: Given today and the wagkba, if we're both town who looks like mafia because of them? Easy answer is sandroba/dmb The scary mafia is probably Trfel, but honestly I don't think he's getting lynched this game. If you, me, sandroba and dmb all flip town we deserve to lose. | ||
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Trfel Slam rayn marv dmb sandroba HF | ||
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It's one of the strongest townreads I've seen in a while. | ||
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On December 18 2023 07:50 Holyflare wrote: What part don't you understand about my dmb read lol? Still think they're just newbie mafia who is using you as a partner to try and get credit for being "correct" the entire game. Nothing about their read on you adds up. So why are you trying to murder me and not her? | ||
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I would actually be somewhat relieved if she's mafia because then I don't have to call her bad in the postgame :D | ||
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On December 18 2023 07:52 Holyflare wrote: Not really there's a lot of reasons. Do you think any mafia would want to defend dmb? Feels like that wagon is inevitable and if they are mafia they'd be trying to take cred on it at some point. But me, her dearest scumbuddy, has actually somewhat defended her, and I'm absolutely not gonna take credit if she's lynched. In fact, I asked you earlier about your theory that me and Chez are scumbuddies, and how my play makes no sense from a mafia perspective. Don't think you pondered that one. If I'm with Chez, I do: a) hard defend him and really try to convince town to go somewhere else b) bus him and try to gain credit. I did neither. I just called it a policy lynch and kinda went with it. If I know he's gonna flip mafia why do I do that? | ||
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On December 18 2023 07:53 Holyflare wrote: Because their alignment is based on your alignment and I don't trust anyone else in this game to lead a wagon on you after me. Wait so if I'm town what does that make dmb? If I'm scum, what does that make dmb? | ||
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On December 18 2023 07:56 Holyflare wrote: It's so painfully clear you haven't read 80% of this game lol I mean.. guilty as charged | ||
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On December 14 2023 20:04 Palmar wrote: This is actually correct. If in lylo with Chez alive, you just hold your breath and lynch him. It's annoying but that's the optimal play as much as it sucks. Wait this was actually a good post by you. | ||
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On December 18 2023 08:01 Holyflare wrote: Then I don't want to talk with you. You're either mafia or a liability. Do some reading and come back when you have or find a person that isn't me (that doesn't include dmb for now) that's actually mafia and be convincing about it. If it isn't you, it's sandroba or a very well hidden scum. Even marv counts as well hidden at present. | ||
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On December 18 2023 08:34 die_meatbaby wrote: STOP CALLING ME BAD TOWN!! when we lynch you we will see that I am right Consider the following... I flip town. What does that make you? | ||
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On December 18 2023 09:23 Holyflare wrote: If rayn made me play this game to call me mafia for the entirety of it because he couldn't understand my first post with words in it and timelines and he is town doing this vote then I don't know what to think about him (yes, a low blow). Nobody read a thing I said about palmar apparently. Important to note he said he would have got credit or defended Chezinu if he was partners with him but I don't think he was around at the time so basically invented a scenario to town read himself. I mean I'm pretty sure of my townread of myself, it's genuine. | ||
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I've done all I can, actually impressed with how much I've done on a weekend. If there's shennies on me, my reads stand. Look for my latest list. May your chosen deity protect you from marv's wrath. | ||
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will post thoughts if I feel like it. | ||
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On December 19 2023 07:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: Holyflare was so bad but it's okay. The thing is I did point out like 2-3 reasons he could be town. But it's really hard for me to come around fully while he is this tunneled on me, when there are really, really good reasons to think I'm town. | ||
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I am not as happy about sheeping the marv read on Sandroba, but tbh, I kinda don't care. I can shut up and not do it. Tomorrow we kill dmb. Also at this point I'm thinking "well fuck, but who do I not want to lose to if mafia". The only player who hasn't really played "well" if they're mafia is dmb. Trfel and Slam would have insane scum games. rayn and marv pretty good, and sandroba has argued himself out of the guillotine twice. I will happily lose if there's 2 mafia in there. dmb I'm not losing to. | ||
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![[image loading]](https://imgur.com/0azsG8x) I know it's a bit grainy but that's the view from my balcony now! Here's a webcam close to the action: | ||
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On December 19 2023 08:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: fuck that's insane.. i know it was happening, did not know you were living close. stay safe yeah no I'm in absolutely no danger, just have a pretty great view due to my location. | ||
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If it isn't him it's super well hidden. marv, trfel, slam, you, idk. Trfel may actually be the likeliest. | ||
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![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/0azsG8x.png) | ||
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On December 19 2023 07:59 Palmar wrote: Also at this point I'm thinking "well fuck, but who do I not want to lose to if mafia". The only player who hasn't really played "well" if they're mafia is dmb. Trfel and Slam would have insane scum games. rayn and marv pretty good, and sandroba has argued himself out of the guillotine twice. I will happily lose if there's 2 mafia in there. dmb I'm not losing to. This really is a genuine concern to me at this point. | ||
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On December 19 2023 08:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: why is dmb mafia according to you? Process of elimination. And the thought that maybe she isn't just terrible as town, maybe she is actually just mafia. I said yesterday that my entire read on her is very much a "too stupid to be mafia" thing. I hate losing to that assumption. | ||
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Shit like this | ||
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On December 19 2023 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: i'm having problems on who is scum, if marv thinks youre not scum and you dont thing marv is scum, then basically i agree do you both agree on DMB, why? i dont see it I didn't say marv isn't scum. | ||
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On December 19 2023 08:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: Most of my read on her is the same. Do yuo think she is mafia or are you saying you don't wanna lose to her? Dash of a, dash of b | ||
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If we can last minute claim and have ANY results at all, even if it's not that helpful, they should be posted. | ||
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On December 19 2023 08:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: so basically you think she is mafia because she thinks youre mafia? Well no She's dragging up 11 year old games to try to meta read people Her reads have been atrocious through the game. She hardly comments on a bunch of players in the game. Much of her accusations against me is illogical. She claims that I'm just playing "insane mafia game", but somehow she caught me immediately on day 1. How is that insane? All this CAN be explained by terrible town, but it can also just be a bit newbie mafia. | ||
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On December 19 2023 08:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: so basically you are blue or mafia? :D me? No I would never! | ||
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On December 19 2023 08:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: okay so, you are saying she can be newbie mafia or newbie town (which she is). which is it? it looks like youre very hesitant to make a stance on what you should. Yeah I haven't been very successful this game at this. I have time. | ||
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The people that piss me off are the ones that aren't even willing to entertain the notion that maybe listening to him, of which you aren't a part. In fact your waffling on the idea is pretty townie. If marv is town I'm town If marv is mafia I'm DEFINITELY town | ||
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I have the exact same issue, but end up thinking dmb is mafia. Maybe she is just bad town. I'm absolutely nor certain. Don't think I can claim much certainty at all. If one of dmb/sandro is town, one mafia has played a really, really strong game. | ||
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On December 19 2023 08:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: but why not sandroba? marv why? I'm sheeping marv's read. I still think he's somewhat scummy. I think mafia marv, realizing we're in lylo, would be hard bussing his partner here and probably taking you or someone else that townreads him into another lylo, then rely on his good standing in town to carry through. So almost regardless of marv's alignment, I'm happy to accept pretty much any read of his as good. He is good at this and not as rusty as I am. | ||
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On December 19 2023 08:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: so what, we lynch DMB tomorrow? That is my preference. If we lose, we lose to great mafia play. | ||
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On December 19 2023 08:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: You assume what? Was that unclear? | ||
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I don't. I'm saying that IF I were to assume it, then that would be the result. | ||
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Mafia can just plop down 1 vote on the deadline and win the game. | ||
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I don't trust sandroba, but again, very willing to sheep marv's townread on him. I think rayn is town I think slam is town (and HF was adamant he is) | ||
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Sheeping dead townies is a good idea. | ||
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I have almost no confidence in that one. But everyone seems fine with killing dmb. Either we're siding with 2 mafia or it's bus time. | ||
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if it's me I'm just tunneling her to death, so she will have to find new stuff to talk about. Or if she's mafia be smart and baby seal the day away to leave town with no info. | ||
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On December 20 2023 01:22 Trfel wrote: die_meatbaby I believe that die_meatbaby is mafia due to the cognitive dissonance in her posts. As in, I cannot put together a town mindset that die_meatbaby's play is coming from that makes sense. For example, if someone says "I want to lynch person A" but their actions do not indicate that they think player A is mafia or that they actually care about lynching player A, that would be an example of the cognitive dissonance I am referring to. Cognitive dissonance 1: Palmar is mafia, but die_meatbaby doesn't take any actions towards lynching Palmar + Show Spoiler + I thought Holyflare made a post about this but I can't seem to find it. It must have been someone else. Die_meatbaby has been scumreading Palmar the whole game, it's been quite the anti-Palmar crusade. However, she hasn't actually made any efforts to trying to lynch Palmar. She didn't even vote for Palmar until late day 3! Sure, die_meatbaby was scumreading Palmar night 1, and seemed pretty upset about it night 2. But when it actually comes down to it, die_meatbaby seems exceptionally content to vote for people other than Palmar, while Palmar is by far her biggest scumread. This doesn't match the mindset of someone who has been dead set on lynching Palmar this whole game. If you doubt this, read her filter yourself, or check the vote thread. When it's time to vote, die_meatbaby doesn't seem to care if Palmar lives or dies. Cognitive dissonance 2: Suspicious of everyone, not inquisitive/not trying to figure things out + Show Spoiler + This has become more clear towards the later portions of the game. Look at this series of posts after the day 3 lynch: On December 18 2023 22:04 die_meatbaby wrote: So, Palmar is mafia. Sandroba was saved by Chezinu when he voted for Vivax, which means sandroba is mafia, right? But Trfel is also maybe mafia! But there are only two members left alive for mafia?Trfel just waiting on which vote rayn was going and then voting on HF instead of Palmar... and I am more suspicious then this???? Maybe I am really wrong with Palmar and its Sandro and Trfel or Sandro and Palmar. How the fuck do I end up as scum in this bullshit scenario. I voted for Palmar. I was against HF lynch. I chanced my vote on Vivax as soon it was clear that he was town and we weren't anoth Townies at that lynch to chance it. Chez was suspicious for me just not my main scum reason and as I already said he is hard to read at least for me. Chez voting an 1 1/2 before lynch and not beeing here till lynch of Vivax is fucking suspicious. In America it's not fucking 4 am tell me that chez just safed you sandro. Because if Vivax didn't get lynched you would and he saved you!!! Tell me I am fucking right with this!! If you are scum just give up. Letting the newbie alive because it's always save to have somebody you can easy lynch. I am just a another version of VE. Always mafia lets VE alive. In every game VE was misslynch from Town (if he was Town) and you guys using me as your next misslynch for Town just because newbie looks scummy. "she writes different" She compares old games with the actual play still using here" She is not playing like the other that looks scummy". No you fucking with the wrong Town here. I am not VE and will do everything what this Town needs and if nobody sees this how chez just safed you at the vivax lynch I am obviously playing with the wrong people here. You all telling me how high you meta is and the experience you guys have over the last decade... yes we talking about a fucking decade and you don't see that. On December 18 2023 22:21 die_meatbaby wrote: Fuck off with this Palmar tunnel I have. I don't care who is mafia with you but you fucking are. Chez didn't vote on you at first and second lynch. It was so obvious that we couldn't believe it. But now I see the light at the end of my tunnel and this light is you. I can't step on the gas pedal, because the traffic light is so red... On December 18 2023 22:47 die_meatbaby wrote: Suddenly posting about raynpelikoneet as well. Is she suspicious of him also? That makes four mafia in a two player game.I already said lets fucking vote this ego busted dickhead and the people here voting still on HF Rayn isn't here the hole day votes on HF instead of Palmar and Trfel waiting to see what rayn is going to do and votes then also on HF. Why not TRFEL and Rayn or Trfel and you or Trfel and Palmar. Why was he waiting? He is sad about HF and votes on him. What did he expect? Why didn't the people vote on Palmar here ot least on me as I said lynch rather me then HF. Yes I was also wrong but I knew he was at least not scum. On December 18 2023 23:38 die_meatbaby wrote: And here goes marvellosity and Alakaslam too.The actuall fuck is goeing on here. I am at the point were i am just pissed on mafia for fooling us so hard. You got almost lynched 2 times at the first two lynches and chez saved you all two lynches even at the second one he rather voted on Trefel then on you. It is so obvious that i can´t believe it myself that that could actually be true. Rayn coming, telling in 2 or 3 sentences why he rather vote on HF than on me or Palmar. Trefel beeing around and just waiting with his vote what was the main reason why HF was lynched because he could have let it on me or on Palmar and then beeing sad about HF lynch. WTF is this here. MARV not even thinking a bit of Palmar beeing scum And Slam starts posting like chez and I don´t understand what he wants to say with his strange posts The hell i am suspicious of to many people here right now Please understand, it's not scummy to be suspicious of lots of people. The suspicious thing is the lack of desire to figure out which suspicious people are actually mafia and which are town. Die_meatbaby is very content to just have everyone as suspicious, which is extremely mafia motivated and shows no desire to solve the game. On December 18 2023 23:44 die_meatbaby wrote: I fucking tell you why. Lynch Nr. 1 Most people are on Vivax second most voted train Sandro. Chez voted 1 hour before lynch on Vivax. At this point he should aready know that Vivax will get emtional now and he has good scum player should also know that maybe the vote train will go on sandro, but sadly not anoth town people here at that moment to save Vivax, Second lynch almost everbody on chez at the end of the timer but few hours before there was voting train on chez or on sandro and chez still rather voting on Trfel then on Sandro why should he do that. She's just coming up with whatever reason to be suspicious of anyone that she can, here it relies on me being town. This all makes no sense from a town perspective. Cognitive dissonance 3: lots of emotional energy, little/no scumhunting energy + Show Spoiler + Die_meatbaby is very angry and emotionally invested. But you don't see that investment in actual scumhunting. If someone is angry, if they are spending a lot of energy in the thread, it's because they care about the game, and thus presumably want to find mafia and win. But you don't see die_meatbaby trying to figure out people's alignments on anywhere NEAR the same magnitude as she is emotionally invested. Lots of the quotes above support this, or you can read her filter. She finds lots of things suspicious but doesn't seem to care to figure out who is actually mafia and who isn't. Then there are smaller things. For example, when Holyflare asks die_meatbaby who is mafia with Palmar, she answers:But four hours later the second post comes. Which one is it? If Holyflare is one of the most likely candidates for being the remaining mafia member, why would she say he is blue and want herself lynched instead? And if she thinks Holyflare is blue, how would have have a chance of being mafia? This is not the view of someone who is looking at the game and actually trying to figure out people's alignments. I'm convinced that die_meatbaby is mafia. If you are not, please talk to me and help me to understand why, since it is very important that town is in agreement this phase. Didnt read but scummy | ||
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On December 19 2023 23:22 sandroba wrote: Are you saying if there is 4 no lynch votes and 2 votes on someone, someone gets lynched? I don't think that's how it works. Yeah no I’m probably wrong, no lynch might be a plurality option. If you wanna we can but I kinda don’t care enough to wait. | ||
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On December 20 2023 01:51 sandroba wrote: I'm like 99.999 on dmb, at this point I think it's more risky a bad townie might screw us over if someone sensible dies I mean yeah. Game is probably lost if scum team is outside Trfel/dmb I am probably just never lynching rayn. And slam has done very well if he’s mafia. And in lylo I think I always lynch Trfel over you | ||
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On December 19 2023 23:13 sandroba wrote: If Palmar was mafia I would be dead and not marv. If mafia wanted to blue hunt I think they prob kill slam, since based on my logic for blue palmar I couldn't be blue either. So Palmar I think could only be mafia with Slam. And that means HF is wrong about Slam and Marv wrong about Palmar. If that's the case here congrats to both. Yeah I actually like this post. | ||
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Do you think dmb is the other mafia? | ||
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On December 20 2023 09:38 die_meatbaby wrote: I really thought he was power roled. Maybe because i believed the claim or maybe because he looked a bit scummy but not red scummy it just looked like blue for me. And Yes I was wrong but I will not lynch somebody who i thinks is maybe blue and i will not let Town lynch blue as well. I tried to stop this. PLS tell me why I should do something like this as Mafia? I don´t see how this is scummy or may look scummy I want to talk about this for a second because we're just steamrolling towards a dmb lynch anyway. This is the kinda stuff that, if you're town, makes you such a liability in a lylo situation. This is, objectively, a terrible play to make as town. You complained on day 1 about me being too cocky, then you turn around with a townread that is so absolutely certain that you believe it to be as valid as your knowledge of your own alignment. No one is ever this sure of anything in this game. Additionally, as a town player, the primary goal should be to not be lynched. Townies who do get lynched, and it happens to all of us, are the reason games get lost. I'm not saying this to style on the people who got lynched, but it's objectively true. So, this is just a bad play, no matter how you think about it. The only faction that benefits from making these kinda offers is mafia, because it's useful wifom for saying "look at how not mafia I am, I was willing to get killed!" So, where does that leave us? You did something only mafia should ever do, so we automatically lynch you! My problem, and this has been my problem the entire game, is that townies do stupid shit all the time. I am nowhere near certain making an objectively wrong play makes you mafia. But in lylo it's really difficult to convince yourself to not make the "correct" play, especially on someone who doesn't have the connections and experience that many other players in the game share. I just don't know if I should expect you to do weird stupid shit as town. I expect Chez to troll the entire game away. I expect slam to be not that useful. I expect koshi and HF to be antagonistic and difficult. People should expect me to be a theatrical troll. I expect marv to be calmly rational. I don't know what I expect of you. Without that knowledge it becomes almost a necessity to default to what is and isn't correct. From my point of view your play becomes even more egregious, knowing you essentially tunneled a townie throughout the entire game and did very, very little else. Being wrong isn't a problem, we're all wrong all the time. It's the lack of other contributions that lose me. | ||
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On December 20 2023 21:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar do you know where these townreads on you from Trfel/sandroba come from? No but it doesn't matter. | ||
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On December 21 2023 01:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Are you still going to play Palmar? I will be on at some point tonight. | ||
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On December 21 2023 12:46 sandroba wrote: I told you your dmb town read was dumb Palmar! Where is your head at? Just doing christmas shit. My Town read on dmb was only dumb because I really couldn’t believe mafia would be so blatant. And hey, a good townie will change his mind when necessary. | ||
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What's your pov? | ||
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Now I don’t believe it to be true, but that’s irrelevant, if he does, then masoning me is 100% a town move. He wrote that before getting his alignment. | ||
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On November 23 2023 05:34 Alakaslam wrote: /replace /in if needed to fill roster This is out of fear of Palmar. He is, believe it or not, not only capable of reading me (mostly) accurately, but can make me the Supreme fool, putty in his hands. If slam genuinely believes this, why isn’t masoning me immediately just a straight up town move? | ||
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I think both Sandroba and I could’ve just ended the game last night if we’re scum by moving on Trfel. So it’s you or slam. I have better reasons to think slam is town. I’m not reading your entire filter lol. | ||
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On December 23 2023 07:25 sandroba wrote: I'm a bit shaken so you still have a shot. I'm waiting for Palmar to help me out here. Just the thought of losing to Slam who is coasting on these town reads and not doing shit is pissing me off. Im kinda waiting on your report from mason | ||
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I have good townies vouching pretty hard for all the people left. Marv for Sandroba and Rayn and HF for Slam. At this point those become pretty much a non-factor, not because I don't think reading dead townies is a good idea, but because they pretty much cancel each other out. Despite some of these people having 30 page filters that I'm absolutely not reading entirely through, I'm going to sort of explain why I'm going to end up voting rayn out of poe. If Sandroba is mafia, he could've just straight up won the game last night. Rayn was adamantly opposed to lynching dmb. Instead of feigning disinterest sandroba argued with rayn for pages and pages to get the lynch on the actual mafia. This is completely unnecessary in mylo. My thought process is pretty much "Sandroba could already have won, but he decided to not." This obviously doesn't mean he can't be mafia, it's just the reasoning I'm using. Additionally I feel like Sandroba's insistence on rayn being the final mafia is pretty interesting. There actually is an option if he is mafia to go back on me, but he doesn't. Regarding slam it becomes more difficult. I townread him initially for pre-game claiming that I am very good at reading his alignment and him being afraid of my ability to do so. I can't read him for shit, but that's irrelevant, the entire point is that he seems to have genuinely thought I could. So if he believes that, masoning me immediately in the game is pretty much insane, unless he made that wifom post pre-game... just anticipating he might be mafia? and might roll whisperer? It's a tiny bit more likely that he anticipated this response to my post, but there are other points to Slam being town. He did really help kill Chez, HF townreads him hard after the mason topic. Slam is an incredibly difficult read in pretty much any game. If we rolled Chez/dmb/Slam mafia game that was always going to be a little tough lol. This leaves rayn. I actually changed my mind after rayn being rational with me when I was under real threat. My basic argument for him maybe being mafia back then still stands. He's said a lot of words but not really pushed town. He did try to push town this last cycle though, but the direction he was pushing would've lost the game right there for town. The thing that gives me pause and hesitation is marv's townread on rayn. I know my view is going to be biased. I was being tunneled by a bunch of people, so when someone actually engages with you it sometimes distorts your view of that person. But marv was under no real suspicion of rayn, yet he moved on after the discussion with me as well. And marv really knows rayn. It's almost hypocritical of me to push for a rayn lynch here. So what do we do? We have hit mafia with 2/4 lynches which is pretty good. But unfortunately (and not really through any fault of their own) our blues were a non-factor in a mafia favored game. If we somehow had a mislynch left we probably win this, but that's not the world given to us. Note I'm not blaming the hosts, they did make a balanced game with what they have. It's just that 12 player games are pretty much automatically mafia favored (because 12 player with 2 mafia would be heavily town favored). It's been an interesting game that's thrown a lot of assumptions out the window. I'm not necessarily happy with where I'm landing today, but I feel like at least I have good reasons to do what I do. | ||
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Could still be marv | ||
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Sandroba and Trfel played really well, but honestly, almost all of town did a really good job. Slam played the best town game I've seen from him. The problem town faced is that it was really scattershot early on in the game. And mafia did a decent job of blending in. I've been skimming the obs QT and they seemed determined we were about to lose when we lynched DMB. The problem for mafia was that any lylo was going to be difficult because there were too many quality town players in the game. Sure, a lylo with Sandro and I isn't easy for mafia, but they were always going to face a lylo with good players. If I get lynched over HF and Sandro shot over marv or koshi or something, you still have 2 quality town players in lylo, willing to throw out their preconceived notions and ready to make the right play. It's somewhat interesting that it was really enough to follow the objectively correct plays to lynch mafia. I made the point on DMB that some of her actions need additional explanation to make her town on day 4. Chez' lynch was a really good policy lynch. Maybe some people saw something scummy in him, but I'm not good enough for that really. Although I hard townread Trfel at that time so maybe I should've been suspicious. Rayn, similarly, simply ran out of lynch targets. People really underestimate the ability to persevere in town. To never fall into the trap of tunneling something to the death and instead constantly re-evaluate reads and thoughts. This town ended up with Sandroba and I as allies finishing off the last few mafia (we were together on both dmb and rayn). We had tunneled each other for the first 2 days really. Regarding marv, that was a strange situation. Marv got very angry with Sandroba because he didn't believe scum Sandroba would make the request he did, given us knowing about Marv's shit evening IRL. The problem there, and I know this wasn't Marv's intention, is that I personally also know Marv has enough integrity to not blow up like that as scum Marv. So I immediately thought to myself "well marv just spewed himself town..." and I almost wrote it in the thread. I did notice some people coming to a similar conclusion. The problem is, I was under heavy pressure at the time, and if I make that read, that looks really good and reasonable for me. So instead of town getting maybe 2 townreads (marv, sandroba) out of the whole thing, they start getting even more (me? and then maybe whoever realizes I make that read as town?). So for game integrity's sake I decided to do a pretty scummy thing and call marv null and completely refuse to discuss it. I wanted mafia to have an avenue to attack me for that, because they did lose some initiative on the two people involved (Sandroba, Marv). I lied to town that I thought it could be marv, but if you read my posts I know I'm pretty much treating him as confirmed town. I couldn't really think of a better way to deal with the whole thing that wouldn't give town additional advantage. | ||
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I quoted like 3 good HF posts in the lead up to his lynch, but I think he kinda killed himself when he refused to entertain my idea that maybe he should be trying to kill DMB and not me. This both made me suspect him even more, and of course also took dmb off the table for the lynch. At that point I needed to kill HF to protect myself, more really than I needed him to die for being scum. And once again the deadlines played a part, because HF did eventually late at night show up and vote dmb, but it was too late. I kinda wanted that lynch (I offered both rayn and HF who I talked to day 3 to go after dmb, both refused). But I was nowhere near sure she was mafia there. I wasn't even sure she was on day 4, but at that point I simply went after the objectively correct lynch and it worked. I personally am clearly quite rusty. With great town play we managed to sail a tough victory home with no help from blues and only 2 mislynches, so I'm really happy with that, but I feel like I was never certain enough of people's alignments this game. I can't beat myself up too much, after all I'm part of the team that ended up delivering the victory, but I feel like I should have been more certain that was going to happen. Additionally my day 1 was uncharacteristically bad. | ||
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I have a disclaimer that hasn’t changed in over a decade in my profile. That is still valid. | ||
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On December 26 2023 21:26 Vivax wrote: Okay so if I said in a game that my people enjoyed watching you suffer, whether they existed or not, but it‘s not personal, where would you place your reaction at ? It’s a game, I probably wouldn’t care lol. Are you okay man? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
I lost a lot of sleep the night we killed you Vivax Remember though, it’s all good. I have no beef with anyone on TL mafia and consider you guys friends. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On December 27 2023 05:44 Vivax wrote: Thanks. That helps. You made me think you were part of a certain gang. Now I know what ptsd is like. I just become a literal beast that sees enemies everywhere out of self defense instinct once I feel like it‘s back then and mafia often triggers it. In that sense, sorry for my outburst. At least you have the capacity for confrontation and talking it out. No worries mate. Take care of yourself. I'm gonna lynch you, and others, in game, but trust me that none of that carries to out of game. There is a really, really good reason I put that disclaimer in my profile. Mafia is a game that requires you to antagonize other people, so if you have a hard time separating the game from real life or outside the game, it can get emotionally taxing. All the best. | ||
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