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On December 17 2023 22:29 sandroba wrote:
I'm willing to be convinced. I find a lot of HFs post extremely townie but his actions de aren't. He says he thought I was townie after palmar mason thing according to him, but never pushed this view in the thread or moved his vote
Yes, this and stuff like this.
I know I am not going to be able to go through HF’s filter and find anything that makes him mafia, I’m just not, it’s a waste of my time.
He’s too rational.
When Hf is town, he’s not always right, and he can properly tunnel a townie to death. One of his strongest attributes is he can get people lynched, as either alignment, and sometimes that means he tunnels a townie to death.
But he hasn’t treated Palmar like that, he’s not tunnelling him to death so he’s not really giving anyone the option to argue with his read.
Palmar was right, I think - the town read that Hf (previously!) had on him was scummy.
Palmar is in the privileged position of knowing he’s town (again assuming that’s he case blablabla) - which means he gets to make this sort of read. I understand what he was saying now.
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On December 17 2023 22:29 sandroba wrote:
I'm willing to be convinced. I find a lot of HFs post extremely townie but his actions de aren't. He says he thought I was townie after palmar mason thing according to him, but never pushed this view in the thread or moved his vote
This mason thing is a good example.
I understand and read what you posted. But actually nothing that you posted should have totally overturned HFs read on palmar. It wasn’t so different to what palmar said, it’s just a matter of perspective.
When I read your summary, sandro, this is what I thought - Palmar is still behaving like Palmar, and maybe his report on your chat is just born out of his scumread in you.
Palmar will have known you’d post your version at some point, it’s not like he was the only one who could summarise the chat.
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Now palmar needs to be mafia in that worldview because otherwise HF will be unable to hold a consistent game view.
If holyflare is forced to ride with Palmar town then the game becomes much simpler, mafias options are cut down.
Mafia need the doubt about Palmar’s alignment.
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On December 17 2023 22:42 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 22:30 marvellosity wrote:On December 17 2023 21:24 Holyflare wrote:
Let's just play around with your world view for a bit. If I am town and you think Palmar is town, who is mafia? Palmar is town. I’ve 180d on rayn again and I think he’s town. I think sandroba is town. Mafia just sits in the rest. Slam probably unlynchable today if it’s him. So between Trfel and DMB. That’s what I’m going to need to try to magic the time up to figure out. what makes me mafia??
The problem is more that I am eliminating people who I think are townies and you’re not reaching that threshold.
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Like I’m certain palmar is town, DMB.
So your crusade on him doesn’t fill me with joy.
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Like if (town) Hf really believes Palmar is mafia, then HF should be gunning hard to down Palmar today. Hf’s posts yesterday came down to a palmar/DMB world view.
But Palmar’s flip solves way more than DMB’s flip does. By far. So if palmar being mafia is HFs view of the game he should not be instructing townies to lynch DMB, he should be rallying the town to lynch palmar.
Instead he is content to let the ‘big fish’ scumread dangle there and go after the LHF (regardless of DMB alignment!)
It’s day 3, it’s time to make the big calls.
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On December 17 2023 22:49 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 22:43 marvellosity wrote:On December 17 2023 22:42 die_meatbaby wrote:On December 17 2023 22:30 marvellosity wrote:On December 17 2023 21:24 Holyflare wrote:
Let's just play around with your world view for a bit. If I am town and you think Palmar is town, who is mafia? Palmar is town. I’ve 180d on rayn again and I think he’s town. I think sandroba is town. Mafia just sits in the rest. Slam probably unlynchable today if it’s him. So between Trfel and DMB. That’s what I’m going to need to try to magic the time up to figure out. what makes me mafia?? The problem is more that I am eliminating people who I think are townies and you’re not reaching that threshold. Thank you for this detailed answer as to why I am not Town.
Am I trying to lynch you? No I’m not.
So stop whining and understand what I am talking about instead of being, or acting, butthurt.
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On December 17 2023 22:55 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 22:46 marvellosity wrote:
Like I’m certain palmar is town, DMB.
So your crusade on him doesn’t fill me with joy. Okey i am mafia because i don´t just jump on an wagon that somebody constructed. I have my own opinion on who is scum and i am still sure it´s Palmar. So thats every good reason from you. Sorry that I just not go with your scum thoughts and rather follow my own thoughts. (but i like the HF scum idea(with Palmar)) Sorry next game I will just follow somebody´s scum thoughts like mafia does.
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here.
How are you sure it’s palmar?
Make me believe your read is genuine.
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On December 17 2023 22:55 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 22:46 marvellosity wrote:
Like I’m certain palmar is town, DMB.
So your crusade on him doesn’t fill me with joy. Okey i am mafia because i don´t just jump on an wagon that somebody constructed. I have my own opinion on who is scum and i am still sure it´s Palmar. So thats every good reason from you. Sorry that I just not go with your scum thoughts and rather follow my own thoughts. (but i like the HF scum idea(with Palmar)) Sorry next game I will just follow somebody´s scum thoughts like mafia does.
You know, one of the key skills of a townplayer is following another townplayer when they are right.
It only takes 1 townie to find a mafia. But it takes a whole bunch of townies to actually lynch the mafia.
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I don’t mean to be rude btw DMB. But my time is limited and I can’t afford to pussyfoot around the problems at hand.
People need to set out their vision clearly and consistently and if it doesn’t make sense I’m gonna call it.
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On December 17 2023 23:09 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 23:02 marvellosity wrote:On December 17 2023 22:55 die_meatbaby wrote:On December 17 2023 22:46 marvellosity wrote:
Like I’m certain palmar is town, DMB.
So your crusade on him doesn’t fill me with joy. Okey i am mafia because i don´t just jump on an wagon that somebody constructed. I have my own opinion on who is scum and i am still sure it´s Palmar. So thats every good reason from you. Sorry that I just not go with your scum thoughts and rather follow my own thoughts. (but i like the HF scum idea(with Palmar)) Sorry next game I will just follow somebody´s scum thoughts like mafia does. You know, one of the key skills of a townplayer is following another townplayer when they are right. It only takes 1 townie to find a mafia. But it takes a whole bunch of townies to actually lynch the mafia. and i was on the vivax lynch until you could see the emtions coming when he was under pressure and tried to chance that lynch with dp together. Palmar is since D1 my nr.1 scumread and i will not get that from my head out. But still I was goeing with the chez lynch
Talk to me properly about Palmar please.
As you have seen, not just from this game, sticking to a scumread for a whole game is a recipe for disaster if you don’t update it. Where would we be if I didn’t come off sandro d2? Even though I wasn’t totally sure I should?
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PS I’m gonna need more than he’s an egotistical arsehole. That’s not a scumread.
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Palmar has been very specific that he is treating me as a null read until lylo forces his hand.
To be honest, I don’t know why this is, and I also don’t want to ask him, because I don’t think he wants to answer.
I think Palmar has his own personal reasons for doing that. That’s not how he approaches me if he’s mafia, not a chance.
It’s too random and specific a play. Mafia just don’t do that. Because he’s not mafia.
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On December 17 2023 23:25 Holyflare wrote:
How many times have you heard mention of "Maybe it's just HF because he town read me" from Palmar? I would wager a shit tonne, because he has spent the whole game saying it and not even caring about it. That's not a town Palmar.
I also don't think it's scummy to town read a Palmar who got a vivax killed when I also thought Vivax was mafia, saw the same things and was fine going to bed with that world view. I think what Palmar posted after that lynch was vindicating enough from someone that did wrong to try and correct their mistake and look for the people that were apathetic to the vivax wagon and search there. Those are all fine actions and primarily why I town read him. I don't think I would really think otherwise. Why would I crusade for his wagon and call him mafia there ordinarily? What about how that went down was a bad look for Palmar that I should have picked up on and pushed?
So he’s mafia because he didn’t hard push you?
Or?
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On December 17 2023 23:27 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 23:24 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar has been very specific that he is treating me as a null read until lylo forces his hand.
To be honest, I don’t know why this is, and I also don’t want to ask him, because I don’t think he wants to answer.
I think Palmar has his own personal reasons for doing that. That’s not how he approaches me if he’s mafia, not a chance.
It’s too random and specific a play. Mafia just don’t do that. Because he’s not mafia. And you can keep repeating that and maybe it is true and if it is then we are all looking in the wrong place for mafia. I just don't think it is and I think he's keeping you at arm's length to kill you off and not make you look in his direction. So it is what it is, we both have views we're adamant about and I won't change mine without useful information on what he's done that isn't very your situation specific and you won't change yours. We achieve nothing here.
Also, I haven’t said this line of reasoning once — it’s the first time.
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On December 17 2023 23:31 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 23:29 marvellosity wrote:On December 17 2023 23:27 Holyflare wrote:On December 17 2023 23:24 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar has been very specific that he is treating me as a null read until lylo forces his hand.
To be honest, I don’t know why this is, and I also don’t want to ask him, because I don’t think he wants to answer.
I think Palmar has his own personal reasons for doing that. That’s not how he approaches me if he’s mafia, not a chance.
It’s too random and specific a play. Mafia just don’t do that. Because he’s not mafia. And you can keep repeating that and maybe it is true and if it is then we are all looking in the wrong place for mafia. I just don't think it is and I think he's keeping you at arm's length to kill you off and not make you look in his direction. So it is what it is, we both have views we're adamant about and I won't change mine without useful information on what he's done that isn't very your situation specific and you won't change yours. We achieve nothing here. Also, I haven’t said this line of reasoning once — it’s the first time. It's semantics, I think he's more than capable of knowing how you'd react to a given read on you given the situations this game but, again, it's a waste of time talking about it. I'm more than happy to look into other people if you wanna talk about them if you're 1000% certain palmar is town. I don't care about being wrong on mafia reads. I want to clear other people if we can.
Well, you know exactly what I think from the last few pages. Who could be mafia and who I think could not.
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Tbh talk about what you like HF - I will read anything with an open mind.
Right this second I want DMB to not afk when I am trying to force her into something.
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On December 17 2023 23:37 sandroba wrote:
Holy shit, if HF is mafia he is on another level. His narrative sounds super genuine right now.
If Palmar is ever town I can see it being dmb and ... Slam?
Not used to playing with godlike mafia so can't wrap my head around HF or even rayn tbh
Hf is the best scumplayer you will ever meet.
I ended up on whatever the other site Hf played on after this one is. he bragged he had never lost a scumgame on that site
That’s the level you’re looking at
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On December 17 2023 23:39 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 23:37 sandroba wrote:
Holy shit, if HF is mafia he is on another level. His narrative sounds super genuine right now.
If Palmar is ever town I can see it being dmb and ... Slam?
Not used to playing with godlike mafia so can't wrap my head around HF or even rayn tbh Hf is the best scumplayer you will ever meet. I ended up on whatever the other site Hf played on after this one is. he bragged he had never lost a scumgame on that siteThat’s the level you’re looking at
Not that it’s important, but it was some sort of champions games from a bunch of diffferent websites and that was part of hfs bio, the fact he had never lost as scum on that site
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On December 17 2023 23:40 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 23:35 marvellosity wrote:
Tbh talk about what you like HF - I will read anything with an open mind.
Right this second I want DMB to not afk when I am trying to force her into something. i am not afk i am diving into hf filter a and trying to get a reasonable scum team without Palmar
First - convince me of your palmar read please.
If you think he is mafia since d1 you should be able to talk about those reasons easily and freely, no?
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EPT
