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On December 17 2023 09:33 Palmar wrote:
But also, I don't think the mason topics are useful, I said as much on day 1. Why wouldn't I just post in the thread. I'm not entirely sure if it's genuine frustration with my dickery, or if it's just an excuse to scumread me.
I entirely agree with this, the whole mason thing is stupid, unless you have confirmed town with a blue in mason chat.
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On December 17 2023 09:36 Palmar wrote:
Yeah, your reads are based more on voting and actions and less on feel, tone and intuition, but the results are the same.
So we just lynch HF?
I dont wanna do that right now because he was the only person being reasonable with me last night (lol) when noone else was.
I can do whatever i want tomorrow.
Do you have a case on him? I know my case is considered irrelevant for everyone else in the game already.
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On December 17 2023 09:37 Palmar wrote:
I did say HF was scummy for townreading me through day 1 and I think into day 2! Very scummy of him to be right about my alignment!
I don't think this is a good basis of a scumread.
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On December 17 2023 09:36 Palmar wrote:
Yeah, your reads are based more on voting and actions and less on feel, tone and intuition, but the results are the same.
Also you are right, i don't do tone reads, nor intuition (in case i understand that correctly).
Last game i had marv as mafia for his first post because i thought "it was a super weird question", he was mafia. Idk if i was right or wrong. I still try every game to put people into correct slots on alignment based on their behavior only. Maybe i should do more tone reads.
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On December 17 2023 09:42 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 17 2023 09:36 Palmar wrote:
Yeah, your reads are based more on voting and actions and less on feel, tone and intuition, but the results are the same.
So we just lynch HF? I dont wanna do that right now because he was the only person being reasonable with me last night (lol) when noone else was. I can do whatever i want tomorrow. Do you have a case on him? I know my case is considered irrelevant for everyone else in the game already. As I said, I don't really. The points I have against him right now are: 1) He did very little early in the game. He was at the bottom of my "people who did shit on day 1" list outside of chez/slam 2) I genuinely expected HF to get into a massive argument with me on night 1 for being wrong on Vivax. 3) Like I've accused you of, I don't think he has changed any hearts and minds in this town.
I can agree to 1 and probably to 3 as well. Not so much on 2.
Question to you; based on 3, you think i haven't done that? Maybe not in a way you like but like you think i haven't made any major discussions happen for instance?
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On December 17 2023 09:53 Palmar wrote:
Yes, you have been involved in a lot of discussions. But I don't think you've often succeeded in convincing people of your point of view.
Do you think it makes me mafia?
Do you think that's how i play as mafia?
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On December 17 2023 09:54 Palmar wrote:
But because you DO do associative reads and think about who could be mafia together.
Do you sincerely believe if HF and I are the remaining mafia we have a play here to bus each other and the other one thinks they can somehow last until endgame?
If you are the last remaining mafia, what other play you have?
And no i am not sure about it, which is why i said i am not sure about it 
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Gamewise the best play is to lynch sandroba here. Because then i can tell if there is a reason to be mad at me (if he is mafia) or not (if he is town) for my vote on Chezinu.
Like, i find it very very weird that like the whole game finds my vote (they find unreasonable) on Chezinu "scummy as fuck", when i voted for mafia. I fucking voted to kill the mafia roleblocker. It does not sit well with me, that everyone thinks i am mafia because i voted to kill mafia, just because "rayn didn't reason his vote properly". Do people really think i don't reason my votes (especially on mafia -- bussing) properly?????????? It's fucking insane.
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but then again i dont really think sandroba is mafia 
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Let me go to smoke and then read DMB, honestly all i have is her vote on NOT Vivax D1.
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On DMB:
- I like her first read on Palmar (not readwise), but it doesn't seem like she has a team behind her ("is Palmar always this overconfident or does he just seem to me like a big headed strong player who trys to hide something")
- She then voted for Vivax, while still doubting Palmar. Idk why she is trying to convince other people that Palmar is not town.
- random comment on favoring a chez lynch (when dp posted something), i dont really see her doing that as mafia knowing chez is mafia
- EoD 1 is just fucking townie from her...
- I don't really see anything wrong on her play D2
Why do people think she is mafia gain?
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On December 17 2023 10:22 Trfel wrote:
I agree, I kinda don't think raynpelikoneet is mafia. I know he's burned me before as mafia though, and there is someone who is sneaking by who I'm not really seeing. My guess was it was either you (Palmar) or raynpelikoneet, I could definitely see that being wrong though since I feel I have more reasons to townread you both than scumread you.
Like I could see raynpelikoneet being mafia, it wouldn't really surprise me, but it doesn't make anywhere near as much sense as I would like to have any sort of confidence in it.
I need to reread Alakaslam, Holyflare, and sandroba.
would like to see who you ACTULLY DO think is mafia, please?
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On December 17 2023 10:31 Trfel wrote:
I thought die_meatbaby was mafia due to how she played day 2, her vote on Chezinu screamed bussing to me. She was so focused on her Palmar read but was content to go along with everyone and vote for Chezinu in what felt like an afterthought.
right, her vote could be bussing, it didn't really do anything anymore at that point.
other than the vote, though...
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I am also saying Palmar is obvious mafia barring the conversation we had.
Do you have an opinion of yours on that?
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On December 17 2023 10:41 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 10:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am also saying Palmar is obvious mafia barring the conversation we had.
Do you have an opinion of yours on that? Honestly I'm just not seeing Palmar as mafia. Like theoretically it could be possible, but I'm not sure if Palmar's play this game is in the range of his scum play (to be fair I don't really know what his scum play range is, I just was under the impression that it wasn't quite on the level of someone like you or Holyflare). I looked through his filter, there were a few things that came up but nothing seriously scummy. One of the main points I had on him ended up having a somewhat plausible explanation. Furthermore, I do believe marvellosity is town and I trust marvellosity's read on Palmar, he said he's going to re-evaluate that over the course of the day but for now that's still a townread. I think perhaps the most likely answer is that one of my assumptions are wrong and that Holyflare or sandroba or Alakaslam is mafia. I have no idea why they would be mafia though, I'm hoping to get through some filter dives sooner or later.
So you don't really have a read on Palmar?
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Trfel what if i said i think Palmar is my town read and he reads DMB town and that's why DMB is town, unless Palmar is scum.
Would that be a good read? Because that's what you basically just said on your read on Palmar.
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So you don't have anything to say about what we discussed here just for like for two hours?
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If you don't get the same takeaways we did, why don't you disagree with them?
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What do you disagree with?
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EPT
