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Is there a reason everyone isn't voting for vivax right now?
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holyflare asked what i think of his slam case:
On August 31 2022 00:11 Holyflare wrote:I think Slam has a decent chance of being mafia too. Firstly, I think his post here: Show nested quote +On August 30 2022 13:27 Alakaslam wrote:On August 30 2022 04:17 Holyflare wrote:
Wait where did Rayn clarify his post? I don't think the typo changes the question lol. Yes it does. Is needlessly regressive. If you were in the game Rayn was talking about (which Slam was) then clarifying the typo to "this game" means nothing because it should have been obvious what he was talking about from the onset, in which case nothing changes.
I'm not sure what you mean by regressive in this context, but this actually looks pretty weak and nitpicky to me. I mean its arguable whether any of this is alignment indicative, but even if it is, its a pretty common thing for Slam to just post off the cuff 'reactions' to posts upon reading them for the first time, and I don't know if I would expect that kind of post to contain a level of depth that you can really read anything from. This comes across like one of those instances to me.
Really, you could argue that he is perfectly correct, even accepting that the clarification means nothing to slam (which is debateable), he could have posted this on the assumption that someone who was not in the game would be interested in what he had to say about it, given that its meaning was up for debate in the post he quoted.
Secondly, his reference in his opening post including: is just the right level of self-deprecation I'd expect from someone hypersensitive about how their posts come across which in my experience, Slam, at least as town, is not.
I've seen slam act hypersensitive as both town and mafia, and on day 1 too. I've seen him get really frustrated at people scumreading him when he's town and quite paranoid about it, and from what i remember it happens more in the early game. Again this is unconvincing to me.
His further posts don't really lead to any kind of evaluation either. He was going to scum read Rayn but remembered Rayn was just bitter as either alignment, he gets into some weird mechanics argument with Dandel in #263 for a while (and actually in this post hesitates in scum reading Dandel?) Then he circularly references his original suspicion in #269 saying he has no scum reads and that maybe Rayn is just mafia after all? It doesn't read like a genuine thought process and I think he was afraid to push too far onto Dandel for fear of repercussions, rather than a genuine intent to solve Dandel's alignment.
This is by far the strongest part of your case. It could read as either a bit of random-ish flailing around on slam's part, or scummy nothingposting, but like you i'm struggling to see the townie logic, and even though I agree with him about some points its like he doesn't want to commit to them yet.
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I have quite a bit to catch up on.
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Oh its rayning guilt trips in here.
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On August 31 2022 09:54 Vivax wrote:Joking, it's just caribous tbh
Oh God I laughed out loud.
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While we're both here rels let me get to your question
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On August 31 2022 09:29 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2022 19:12 Jockmcplop wrote:
A little summary of my thoughts on the start of the game before I went to bed, before i have look at the rest.
Overall thoughts on dandel ion's start:
I often end up in exchanges like that on day 1. For some reason people tend to post stuff that doesn't make sense from a town perspective, be openly and obviously evasive about answering questions, and invariably end up being town.
He certainly doesn't appear to be 'hiding' the way i would expect mafia to, but I just can't get over how scummy some of his reasoning is. ? What would be that way?
I'm looking for certain things that indicate town on day 1:
-Blatant, simple scumhunting
-Tunnelling in a productive way
-Getting people to share their thought process to help catch scum later.
DI's posting looked like it fit into the third category to me. He was posting nonsense, but in doing so he was also provoking people to show why they thought he was wrong and not backtracking or diverting attention away from it like i would expect from mafia.
Compare his posts to Vivax, my scumread, and you can see how dandel's posting seems to have a point and is geared towards eventually finding scum whereas Vivax isn't really doing anything like and just jumped on the first possible vote and stayed there. Vivax is also posting enough to not die but hasn't posted anything really that will get people talking. He's hiding, like i would expect mafia too. DI isn't, his posts provoke conversation about DI and his posts.
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On August 31 2022 10:29 Rels wrote:
I feel the same way about Vivax too. Perfect vig target with Dandel.
I think he's a perfect lynch target myself.
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On August 31 2022 10:32 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2022 10:25 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 31 2022 09:29 Rels wrote:On August 30 2022 19:12 Jockmcplop wrote:
A little summary of my thoughts on the start of the game before I went to bed, before i have look at the rest.
Overall thoughts on dandel ion's start:
I often end up in exchanges like that on day 1. For some reason people tend to post stuff that doesn't make sense from a town perspective, be openly and obviously evasive about answering questions, and invariably end up being town.
He certainly doesn't appear to be 'hiding' the way i would expect mafia to, but I just can't get over how scummy some of his reasoning is. ? What would be that way? I'm looking for certain things that indicate town on day 1: -Blatant, simple scumhunting -Tunnelling in a productive way -Getting people to share their thought process to help catch scum later. DI's posting looked like it fit into the third category to me. He was posting nonsense, but in doing so he was also provoking people to show why they thought he was wrong and not backtracking or diverting attention away from it like i would expect from mafia. Compare his posts to Vivax, my scumread, and you can see how dandel's posting seems to have a point and is geared towards eventually finding scum whereas Vivax isn't really doing anything like and just jumped on the first possible vote and stayed there. Vivax is also posting enough to not die but hasn't posted anything really that will get people talking. He's hiding, like i would expect mafia too. DI isn't, his posts provoke conversation about DI and his posts. Meh, I really disagree. Don't think there is a significant difference between both TBH. DI is posting random shit and is proud of it yeah, but I don't see any attempt to get useful info. That doesn't make him anything apart from useless.
Let me have a look and see if I can show you what I mean
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Rels:
First DI said he was lynching me because i was scum. He then had that exchange with me and switched and said he was lynching decon.
The progression there reads to me like he's provoking reactions from players to try and get a read on them.
I agree with him that decon is at least a bit scummy so it makes sense that he would go there next.
Of course, to read him town based on this depends on his futureposting too and whether the progression continues, but it looks to me like a townie player getting info and finding a target.
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On August 31 2022 10:34 Rels wrote:I have this post saved on a tab by Slam, that I thought was very scummy: Show nested quote +On August 30 2022 13:35 Alakaslam wrote:On August 30 2022 05:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 30 2022 03:47 Rels wrote:On August 30 2022 03:41 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 30 2022 03:36 Rels wrote:On August 30 2022 03:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 30 2022 03:28 Rels wrote:On August 30 2022 03:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 30 2022 03:14 deconduo wrote:
[quote]
Awesome we have one confirmed town. Anyone else? lol? did you skip HF post on purpose? Which post and whatsm i supposed to do eith it? Was wondering why you didn't address this post: On August 30 2022 03:12 Holyflare wrote:On August 30 2022 03:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:Alright. This i am okay with there being mafia rb that doesnt actually rb  What? But responded to the very next one: On August 30 2022 03:14 deconduo wrote:On August 30 2022 03:12 Holyflare wrote:I'm town Awesome we have one confirmed town. Anyone else? But then you posted your clarification at the same time I posted my question Am I wrong or was his clarification to do with a totally different post, not the 'lol?' or hf's post? Confused. He didn't reply to HF post directly but addressed the question (at least a little bit, we'll apparently get the full context of the Vivax trap later) So yeah, "this game i am okay with there being mafia rb that doesnt actually rb" is a reference to the last game where i was mafia with vivax and he rb'd trfel who we knew was jailer, just to realize after night phase that even though trfel got roleblocked he could still jail me (apparently "before getting roleblocked" roflmao) and our night kill didn't go through. It actually sparked a stupidly idiotic post game discussion where some people actually considered that is not bs hosting. Anyways it was originally a prod towards Vivax since not once or twice have i figured out his alignment based on some random looking comment which he should be actually responding to (at least jokingly if not otherwise), and here also feeling the same way in case he is also town. He's known to pay way less attention to the game as mafia than as town, especially early on in the game. But yeah i typoed and it is what it is now, useless. I don't really think i should have any response about HF's posts because my post is not directed to him (same as Jock a bit later). I don't remember if i actually talked about the incident later with HF in discord but anyways he's gonna claim he doesn't remember it or doesn't genuinely remember it (in case we did talk about it) and there is no way to confirm that so there really is nothing for me to respond. _____ I liked Jock's eagerness in the beginning, although now i don't really know what he's trying to do especially with deconduo, after deconduo's first couple of posts i don't think there is anything could be alignment indicative, yet for some reason Jock's pushing that forward, it seems quite useless to me. I was about to say i think he's town earlier, but i will take that back. deconduo's a bit... idk. I don't think his response to HF's "im town" is alignment indicative necessarily, just very... stupid? However i really don't get this: On August 30 2022 03:30 deconduo wrote:
Nah I haven't claimed town yet, still deciding. What incentive would you EVER have to NOT claim town as town in your mind deconduo? Lol until I saw this shit I was gonna SR you by pointing out you were too fucking bitter but then remembered that bitterness is not alignment indicative  It's extremely forced, for a player that I think always posts random stuff without thinking about it. I don't believe he really had the thought process he described.
This is a nice point tbh.
Its a bit ambiguous, as was holyflare's case on slam, but its worth putting in the notes.
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On August 31 2022 10:33 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2022 10:25 Jockmcplop wrote:
Compare his posts to Vivax, my scumread, and you can see how dandel's posting seems to have a point and is geared towards eventually finding scum whereas Vivax isn't really doing anything like and just jumped on the first possible vote and stayed there. Vivax is also posting enough to not die but hasn't posted anything really that will get people talking. He's hiding, like i would expect mafia too. DI isn't, his posts provoke conversation about DI and his posts. Bruh you're talking to the fucking devil But since you're cheeky you pass and you get 1 hellfire iteration less
How many iterations am i on now? I lost count.
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On August 31 2022 10:46 Rels wrote:
I'm very sorry, also while rereading the exchange I still don't like your posts. I really don't like how it seems that you want to grab an easy win while fearing to be too obvious
You don't have to apologize.
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On August 31 2022 10:46 Rels wrote:
I'm very sorry, also while rereading the exchange I still don't like your posts. I really don't like how it seems that you want to grab an easy win while fearing to be too obvious
What do you think i was trying to win?
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On August 31 2022 10:47 Rels wrote:For example, the second one in that back to back pair of posts: Show nested quote +On August 30 2022 05:02 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 30 2022 05:00 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 30 2022 04:58 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 30 2022 04:57 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 30 2022 04:53 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 30 2022 04:51 Dandel Ion wrote:
I lack both money and a mouth Neo? Is that you? are we ever truly anybody? Yes you are Alice in a poorly constructed metaphor about a rabbit hole. Staying on topic though, you may have no mouth and no money but you certainly have a vote. If you're going to try and lynch me as you said you were you should use it. no I shouldn't voting is counterproductive to obtaining a lynch In what way? Show nested quote +On August 30 2022 05:04 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 30 2022 05:00 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 30 2022 04:58 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 30 2022 04:57 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 30 2022 04:53 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 30 2022 04:51 Dandel Ion wrote:
I lack both money and a mouth Neo? Is that you? are we ever truly anybody? Yes you are Alice in a poorly constructed metaphor about a rabbit hole. Staying on topic though, you may have no mouth and no money but you certainly have a vote. If you're going to try and lynch me as you said you were you should use it. no I shouldn't voting is counterproductive to obtaining a lynch Also I will infer from this that your mind is close to made up and that you actually are trying to lynch me.
What I was actually doing was trying to get him to put an early vote on me because i wanted to see what decon would do. DI and decon had previously talked about lynching me. I was curious.
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On August 31 2022 10:50 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2022 10:49 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 31 2022 10:46 Rels wrote:
I'm very sorry, also while rereading the exchange I still don't like your posts. I really don't like how it seems that you want to grab an easy win while fearing to be too obvious What do you think i was trying to win? Something like, the justification for an easy scumread / vote
And yet I didn't do that, so it doesn't make sense that that was my intention.
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On August 31 2022 10:50 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2022 10:49 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 31 2022 10:46 Rels wrote:
I'm very sorry, also while rereading the exchange I still don't like your posts. I really don't like how it seems that you want to grab an easy win while fearing to be too obvious You don't have to apologize. I live in Canada now, I heard I have to now!
Canadians are 99% of the mafia.
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^^EBWOP: 99% of the time mafia
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On August 31 2022 10:56 Rels wrote:What changed between those 2 posts? In the first, you're saying rayn was literally talking about mafia RB, and in the second, you have the correct interpretation of events. Show nested quote +On August 30 2022 04:23 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 30 2022 04:22 Holyflare wrote:On August 30 2022 04:21 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 30 2022 04:16 deconduo wrote:On August 30 2022 04:15 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 30 2022 04:12 deconduo wrote:
Anyone who's posts I like always turns out to be mafia The question is, if you've noticed this pattern before, didn't you just vote for the people whose posts you liked? How did it go? Don't remember, its been years Fair enough. On August 30 2022 04:17 deconduo wrote:
My old rule was always vote Palmar day 1 Oh its ok the rule is vote palmar day 1 or if he's not there vote holyflare. On August 30 2022 04:17 Holyflare wrote:
Wait where did Rayn clarify his post? I don't think the typo changes the question lol. His post makes sense after the clarification. It didn't before, I assume that why you posted 'what?'. Why does saying this game has a rber that doesn't rb make any sense? Can't find anything about it in the OP. I think he's saying that he's ok with it if it happens. Show nested quote +On August 30 2022 19:43 Jockmcplop wrote:On August 30 2022 09:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:There was so much discussion of this quote: On August 30 2022 03:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:Alright. This i am okay with there being mafia rb that doesnt actually rb For my own clarity rayn, this was the section of the OP that made you make this comment right? Mafia roleblocker has precedence. If mafia roleblocker and jailkeeper target each other the jailkeeper's action will not be counted.
It was in reference to a previous game, not the OP. Anyway, I agree, far too much discussion of that post.
The two are not mutually exclusive. Think about it. He was referencing a previous game, while saying that in this game, he would be fine with the mafia rb not rbing.
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I do admire how much completely useless 'content' has come from that one typo by rayn lol. It could probably fill at least 3 pages now, and not one thing has come from it that i would find convincing.
Mafia players are a special breed.
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EPT
