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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On August 18 2017 01:42 Jealous wrote:
I just came here to paint some pictures. I think I'll go back to doing that now that I have more free time starting tonight, because I'll probably be on mobile/relatively busy all weekend and will be forced to use text.
I mean I try and make constructive posts at least.
Also in this hopeless/rayn argument I totally believed hopeless thought that someone like cake made an argument about tw seeing the judge qt.
I was all ready trying to quote him and tell him he misread her post but then the thread went full on shit fest.
Bad joke if it was one.
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On August 18 2017 01:40 Jealous wrote:To answer people's concerns about me being 50/50 in my posts, the reason why I do this is because I believe that committing to a read and then looking at all consequent posts through that filter makes for biased play. Especially in the first few days, I'd rather discuss what happened objectively and use that to shape my opinion, not make an opinion and then discuss based on that. I hate it when people put out one liner reads early in the game en masse like Damdred did. I also can't partake in any of the meta because in the long and illustrious history of players like rayn and HF, I am sure they can dig up whatever they want to prove/disprove anything they claim about the other, and also because I have no point of reference in that regard. So, that being said, I don't see how it's unexpected that a player who is unfamiliar with the rest of the population, has 0 meta, and is a relative scrub is making long posts that are trying to explain their thinking process. I'm trying to get better at this as I'm doing it, so I explain my rationale from start to finish. Then I get scumread for it? Whatever. I appreciate people like geript explaining things clearly and also answering my posts, even if they don't make sense because of meta or because I didn't think things through in a civil manner. But apparently what flies here is 1. shit up the thread 2. make one line read posts like "xx is scum," or "give me a gun," etc. 3. use meta like it's the gold standard. 4. make unsubstantiated lists. The newbie mafia game(s?) I played were much more civil, interesting, and entertaining than this. So without further ado: geriptHF, fuck it, I'll put my faith in my gut since apparently him lying habitually is NAI I understand Ever's position, having to catch up with the thread, and their posts so far have made sense to me so townlean. H1 going to carry over some of the towniness from earlier in the game but he hasn't do anything to impress me recently and this recent shit rubs me the wrong way CopCake is still a mystery Rayn has been playing in a way that I can't disenfranchise my feelings from my reads and he shitposts too much, so I'd be fine with him just not being here anymore. Unfortunately that doesn't make me scumread him because he still has made some decent posts and ultimately this post in his spat with H1: Show nested quote +On August 18 2017 01:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I believed:
"Hopeless sees some argument that banks on Tumblewood having access to judge QT and rayn wants to know what that argument is because Hopeless implied he knows about an argument like that and i can's see any". I would probably think the same thing. Rels I have no clue because I have no meta and he hasn't posted, so natural scumlean Conversion - I didn't like his posts earlier in the game, then he kinda started posting better, then he apparently started willfully not reading filters in their entirety as soon as he found something to latch onto and publish to the thread so I'll give him a scumlean on that Damdred
ritoky
TWFuck it. See y'all tonight.
I don't use meta like that -- well after the very start of the game, because there is not much to go on. I back up my things with meta, unlike Holyflare who says "you did this in your scumgame and you did it again so youre scum". Or if i meta someone into something, i go to look more into that person. I originally called out Holyflare because he made me feel really annoyed, and that's what happens when he is mafia. He outposts everyone anyways, and he just kept going on andd going on and already had reasons on whatever i say makes me mafia. I don't wanna play that kind of game, because it is not productive. And i get pissed off for shit like that.
I disliked your pictures, because even when you were saying something i can't tell the motivation from a picture. Your reads on me and Damdred were basically "this post is townie, this post is null, this post is scummy.... -> conclusion: town/scum". It really doesn't say anything unless you explain that and you werent willing to do that. Anyone can make that kind of a picture, and one post that is scummy/townie doesn't mean anything regarding how people should read YOUR alignment since we can't realize the motivation behind the "this post is X" "sentence". I said that early on, and i don't wanna repeat myself, people should realize easy things like that on their own.
You don't care about meta, that's fine. Why is HF lying townie in this case? When did someone tell you that? Basically you say you don't care about meta but then accept something as a fact because of "meta". Let me tell you something, why don't you tell us what YOU think about that yourself? Or was your post about the gun scenarios your opinion meta removed?
Can you elaborate more on your scumreads? Especially on ritoky. Does your Damdred read from the beginning still apply?
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On August 18 2017 01:46 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2017 01:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 18 2017 01:30 Tumblewood wrote:
whatever you and rayn are doing right now is the stupidest argument i have seen in a long long time. and i know "you can't just call it tvt for being an argument" but this is such a potent combination of inanity and hostility that yes i am calling it 100% tvt How is the argument stupid from my point and why is it tvt? by inanity i mean the point you are arguing over is ridiculous (about a facet of the setup that is obviously not true), and by hostility i mean both of you are far more passionate than a point this ridiculous warrants. i've only skimmed your side of the argument so far (still catching up); your side doesn't seem stupid so far, but it is still vehement and over a ridiculous detail, and i think that is more than covered by the fact that you were already likely town.
I only asked him where he thought he saw something like that.
He went batshit insane and started calling me mafia.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Also jealous, I wouldn't have a problem with your play if I knew you played like this previously but just take it from another player's perspective. If I was posting two sides to an argument each time and you didn't know my alignment what is there to call me mafia for? I can just say I was weighing up each scenario each time and it's not scummy.
That's the problem we face. It's not that your posts ARE scummy it's just that in this game you kind of need to make that final leap on judging that person's character and making a conclusion based on you weighing things up like you have been. If you did those posts and then concluded something like "Judging HF by his personality he's egocentric and wanted to usurp the thread so he likely did action X" is what we need.
It's just there's absolutely nothing to hold you to in your filter if you appear undecided each time. I appreciate the effort and the thought you put into those posts but it appears fruitless.
Furthermore, it's also the topics you choose. It's more that you're picking situations that don't need to be talked about. All of that weighing up about me and the gun was basically pointless because in the end you just wait and see what the judges do. I've also made about 6 pages of content since then so it seems like you're bypassing content and arguments to talk about a kind of toss up argument.
I suggest you go searching for something of your own accord. I liked your paint reads of damdred and rayn earlier, that was a good start. You just need to take the reigns and make US see why someone is scummy and push it. That would be the final hurdle to make you solid town that you currently lack.
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On August 18 2017 01:49 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2017 01:42 Jealous wrote:
I just came here to paint some pictures. I think I'll go back to doing that now that I have more free time starting tonight, because I'll probably be on mobile/relatively busy all weekend and will be forced to use text. I mean I try and make constructive posts at least. Also in this hopeless/rayn argument I totally believed hopeless thought that someone like cake made an argument about tw seeing the judge qt. I was all ready trying to quote him and tell him he misread her post but then the thread went full on shit fest. Bad joke if it was one.
dude he said that was not the point. he literally said he was bullshitting and because i called him out for that (i didn't honestly even think he can be mafia before) he started calling me scum.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On August 18 2017 01:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2017 01:49 Holyflare wrote:On August 18 2017 01:42 Jealous wrote:
I just came here to paint some pictures. I think I'll go back to doing that now that I have more free time starting tonight, because I'll probably be on mobile/relatively busy all weekend and will be forced to use text. I mean I try and make constructive posts at least. Also in this hopeless/rayn argument I totally believed hopeless thought that someone like cake made an argument about tw seeing the judge qt. I was all ready trying to quote him and tell him he misread her post but then the thread went full on shit fest. Bad joke if it was one. dude he said that was not the point. he literally said he was bullshitting and because i called him out for that (i didn't honestly even think he can be mafia before) he started calling me scum.
Yes, I know. He's dumbo. I don't really get it :D
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@Damd,
New mess that will escalate way past in the time I write this post but w/e.
Rels: He can go to slightly mafia. I gave him a free pass because of last game. He has proven to be staying at least up to date with the thread though so why is he just lurking? Using a known townie playstyle as town to fuck off and afk D1 I can accept. Trash I think but fine. But using a townie playstyle to coast by lurking is super dirty. Like usually he's mia for a long time, comes back with a long winded short vr of the entire player list. He obviously could of done that by now but he hasn't.
CC: Moved to null. Snippy attitude is just preventing her from being productive. She seems standoffish. I don't see a reason for it. Not lynch material but I'm hoping for more.
TW: Not going to reiterate other peoples words. They said them. I agree with them. Would lynch.
HF: Can go to slightly town. Outside of my skeptical bias I think his abrasive playstyle is just that. Regardless of his alignment. And aside from the early mess he has been mostly on point. Could be good mafia play but right now there is just a lot of other options I'd put ahead of him. So for my own piece of mind I'm going to do this for now so I can worry on other things.
Jealous: He seems kind of lost atm? I don't like the HF speculation because I find it kind of pointless. I'm still think he's probably town though. Why would he put in the work to derail any progress on purpose as mafia? I'll keep it in mind but as long as he gets back on track D2 no worries.
Hope: I don't think he's done much other than agree with TW case, call for a gun, and now this big nasty waste of 4-5 pg of space dominated by a pointless mechanics discussion. I think this whole thing is fishy as fuck considering "I can sort of accept that, but your not out of you" so take your read and drop it. But that's not what we got at all.
Rayn: I liked Rayn catching up but this second fight about nothing makes me super nervous. #2 bout that I personally think is an entirely pointless agrument to be dragging out. but it being night I'm wait until tomorrow and see how he handles his reads then. Can stay at null for right now.
Damd: I feel like you haven't done much else still. I didn't like your position yesterday, I didn't like how you criticized my reads when we get no clear indication of how yours develop, and you haven't done much to change any of that. It's like you're turning in math homework with all the answers filled in but none of the work. We have no idea how you got there. Which could be mafia driven I think but I can see lost or lazy town possibility in it aswell. Not in my immediate lynch pool but definitely in my slightly mafia bracket.
Rit can get moved into slight mafia bracket too. Missing the vote is not un-heard of but since the only vivid thing I can remember is way early in the game being mad about being a clock. If Ritz is trying to blend into the background and be ignored, doing especially well.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On August 17 2017 23:49 Hopeless1der wrote:
But also, this particular argument has a latent assumption that scum knew what the judges were doing...so wtf is that about>
Like this doesn't sound like a joke in the slightest? What's so funny about it?
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@ HF. Rayn also on Hope's thing why wasn't it dropped here?
On August 18 2017 00:27 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2017 00:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 18 2017 00:23 Hopeless1der wrote:On August 18 2017 00:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No i thought you were saying "someone is arguing in a way that if tw is mafia they would have seen the qt". AND YOU THOUGHT THAT ARGUMENT HAD ANY MERIT?! NO I DIDNT FIND THAT ARGUMENT AND I THOUGHT YOU HAD SEEN ONE SO I ASKED YOU WHO MADE THE ARGUMENT. Fuyck uyou are stupid. okay, i can maybe accept that, except the part where you're rayn and Im hopeless and thats fucking retardation.
End of argument. If that makes Rayn mafia then ok, say "You can't be serious, you're not so bad, thus mafia."
Maby 1-2 post to clarify points. Why was it like 5 pages? D:
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On August 18 2017 02:01 Eversince wrote:
Rayn: I liked Rayn catching up but this second fight about nothing makes me super nervous. #2 bout that I personally think is an entirely pointless agrument to be dragging out. but it being night I'm wait until tomorrow and see how he handles his reads then. Can stay at null for right now.
Can you actually tell me why that makes you "super nervous" about me? Where am i doing something scummy? I dig into shit i find fishy and that was fishy, you even said it yourself on Hopeless part. I also have iven out reads. Do you have anything to comment on them?
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Also why do you seem to have like 6 scumreads?
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On August 18 2017 01:03 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 22:51 Conversion wrote:@Jealous On August 16 2017 05:39 Jealous wrote:
Parking on rayn until I look at FF's filter later tonight. Definitely not voting for H1 but I guess I will have to do my due diligence and look at his filter too; even though he's one of my hard town reads, that kind of false confidence and unwillingness to read filters is exactly what makes people play bad. why did you end up never doing anything you mentioned and left your vote parked on rayn? Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 11:30 Jealous wrote:On August 16 2017 11:18 CopCake wrote:
I know the Euro people are sleeping but where are the american pride people? Finishing a paper and preparing to study for an exam I have tomorrow. I might have to put off any megaposts about FF and H1 until after I finish doing those things. I will make brief summaries though. Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 05:03 Jealous wrote:
Something came up - won't be back until evening. Sorry all. Thanks.
uh.. do I really need to timestamp you? You parked your vote on rayn, and said you're going to look into Hopeless' filter twice.
don't scumlean me for "apparently started willfully not reading filters in their entirety as soon as he found something to latch onto and publish to the thread so I'll give him a scumlean on that"
when you're posting lists without reading the full length of my filter. that's even less effort on your part.
now show me exactly where this "latch on" behavior happens and your argument will make sense. I post my thoughts in the thread to be transparent, and you take that as an attack on your play and use words that sound like I did far more than just ask you a simple question
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On August 18 2017 02:01 Eversince wrote:
@Damd,
New mess that will escalate way past in the time I write this post but w/e.
Rels: He can go to slightly mafia. I gave him a free pass because of last game. He has proven to be staying at least up to date with the thread though so why is he just lurking? Using a known townie playstyle as town to fuck off and afk D1 I can accept. Trash I think but fine. But using a townie playstyle to coast by lurking is super dirty. Like usually he's mia for a long time, comes back with a long winded short vr of the entire player list. He obviously could of done that by now but he hasn't.
CC: Moved to null. Snippy attitude is just preventing her from being productive. She seems standoffish. I don't see a reason for it. Not lynch material but I'm hoping for more.
TW: Not going to reiterate other peoples words. They said them. I agree with them. Would lynch.
HF: Can go to slightly town. Outside of my skeptical bias I think his abrasive playstyle is just that. Regardless of his alignment. And aside from the early mess he has been mostly on point. Could be good mafia play but right now there is just a lot of other options I'd put ahead of him. So for my own piece of mind I'm going to do this for now so I can worry on other things.
Jealous: He seems kind of lost atm? I don't like the HF speculation because I find it kind of pointless. I'm still think he's probably town though. Why would he put in the work to derail any progress on purpose as mafia? I'll keep it in mind but as long as he gets back on track D2 no worries.
Hope: I don't think he's done much other than agree with TW case, call for a gun, and now this big nasty waste of 4-5 pg of space dominated by a pointless mechanics discussion. I think this whole thing is fishy as fuck considering "I can sort of accept that, but your not out of you" so take your read and drop it. But that's not what we got at all.
Rayn: I liked Rayn catching up but this second fight about nothing makes me super nervous. #2 bout that I personally think is an entirely pointless agrument to be dragging out. but it being night I'm wait until tomorrow and see how he handles his reads then. Can stay at null for right now.
Damd: I feel like you haven't done much else still. I didn't like your position yesterday, I didn't like how you criticized my reads when we get no clear indication of how yours develop, and you haven't done much to change any of that. It's like you're turning in math homework with all the answers filled in but none of the work. We have no idea how you got there. Which could be mafia driven I think but I can see lost or lazy town possibility in it aswell. Not in my immediate lynch pool but definitely in my slightly mafia bracket.
Rit can get moved into slight mafia bracket too. Missing the vote is not un-heard of but since the only vivid thing I can remember is way early in the game being mad about being a clock. If Ritz is trying to blend into the background and be ignored, doing especially well.
where am I?
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for reference, these are the only two posts I ever made to you, Jealous. in. this. entire. game.
On August 17 2017 22:51 Conversion wrote:@Jealous Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 05:39 Jealous wrote:
Parking on rayn until I look at FF's filter later tonight. Definitely not voting for H1 but I guess I will have to do my due diligence and look at his filter too; even though he's one of my hard town reads, that kind of false confidence and unwillingness to read filters is exactly what makes people play bad. why did you end up never doing anything you mentioned and left your vote parked on rayn?
On August 17 2017 22:54 Conversion wrote:also your gun post was bad for reasons mentioned by geript, and then you leave us this little gem Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 13:53 Jealous wrote:On August 17 2017 12:38 CopCake wrote:
@Jelaous; what do you think of Geript's case on TW? Okay so first I'll explain my thought process reading the relevant posts, and I'll post a conclusion after I'm done. Looking at this post:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/525420-ms-paint-off-mafia?page=73#1445Like TW upgrading his FF read is really fucking weird. It's based off of a weak town read for "Not wanting a power-up" never gets talked about and FF gets upgraded to lock town 30 minutes before the lynch. I'm guessing the implication here is that TW was trying to appear more townie because he already knew what the outcome of lynching FF would be. Hopeless gets a major downgrade, FF gets an upgrade, and none of this gets talked about. One has to keep in mind that this is in response to this TW post: + Show Spoiler +On August 16 2017 01:35 Tumblewood wrote:
thanks euros for the 20 pages while i was sleeping
i read half of them and i think cake is the clearest town. i'm also moving 1der into weak town.
i appreciate rayn but i'm waffling on him hard. not necessarily defending himself in a townie or scummy way, just very actively.
damdred seems like town, but that said i don't know if i've ever played with scum!damdred. Which was made four hours before the Day 1 Eliminations were posted: I also don't see any mention of FF in there. + Show Spoiler +On August 16 2017 05:34 rsoultin wrote:Day 1 Eliminations
Judges' least favorites: raynpelikoneet, Fecalfeast, Hopeless1der
Vote here to remove from competition Is geript implying that TW was trying to raise H1's scum value and raise FF's townie value? I guess I can see that from a scum perspective, but I think it's NAI. Plenty of people have been giving relatively unexplained reads and changes in those reads based on vague one-liners. If every person who did that in this game was scum, there would be like 0 town players in this game lol. And again, FF was not mentioned in the post that geript was referencing. Moving on, I agree with geript that TW's CopCake post was bad. I also called him out on it, and after a brief back-and-forth he stopped answering me on that subject in particular, here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/525420-ms-paint-off-mafia?page=53#1058Then he picked it back up later: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/525420-ms-paint-off-mafia?page=55#1090I respond to this, and he doesn't respond once again. So yea, not a good track record. I would think that my posts would deserve at least an "Oh, ok," or something of that nature. From what I'm seeing here, I'm not seeing even that. In response to this post by geript:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/525420-ms-paint-off-mafia?page=73#1448I do agree with geript that the timing of TW's "filter analysis" is suspect. That is something that might get missed if someone isn't careful when they look at TW's filter, especially in the short-term when it now says "8 hours ago" or whatever. So, that's a good catch and definitely more worthwhile than that other argument that centered around timing, which was just bad in all directions imo (though I appreciated the sentiment from H1). I just don't understand why TW would claim to filter dive then come back so soon afterwards with those conclusions in a logical townie TW universe. He's not an idiot. I also agree with geript's analysis of what TW's options were, but I feel like I'm not appreciating the full impact of that argument; what are the conclusions in this case? As in, TW is scum because... He lied about reading filters? What did he gain from this lie, if we assume that it was a 3 town lynch pool? I guess the implication would have to be that it's not a 3 town lynch pool - in which case, the narrative being pushed is that TW was trying to distance himself from H1 and buddybuddy with FF/rayn. Which means... TW + H1 team? Conclusion: I do agree with a lot of geript's analysis; I will have to revisit my H1 read to see how much I can agree with the universe that is being created as a result, if I understood it correctly. Perhaps geript can clarify for me if my analysis of her argument is correct. I did have a strong H1 town read, but that was quite some time ago; however, I don't recall seeing anything scummy from H1 recently. In short: Potentially plausible, need more feedback to be sure and need to do more research in the morning to confirm. tl;dr you could have typed "I agree with geript's analysis" and you would save every town time in reading this big post of nothing, and ended with the same "I need to revisit Hopeless' filter," which you said you'd do since yesterday soo.. why aren't you doing anything? you're clearly around.
now explain to me what part of that is being "latched on" to you?
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On August 18 2017 02:05 Eversince wrote:@ HF. Rayn also on Hope's thing why wasn't it dropped here? Show nested quote +On August 18 2017 00:27 Hopeless1der wrote:On August 18 2017 00:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 18 2017 00:23 Hopeless1der wrote:On August 18 2017 00:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No i thought you were saying "someone is arguing in a way that if tw is mafia they would have seen the qt". AND YOU THOUGHT THAT ARGUMENT HAD ANY MERIT?! NO I DIDNT FIND THAT ARGUMENT AND I THOUGHT YOU HAD SEEN ONE SO I ASKED YOU WHO MADE THE ARGUMENT. Fuyck uyou are stupid. okay, i can maybe accept that, except the part where you're rayn and Im hopeless and thats fucking retardation. End of argument. If that makes Rayn mafia then ok, say "You can't be serious, you're not so bad, thus mafia." Maby 1-2 post to clarify points. Why was it like 5 pages? D:
I dont have to convince you or rayn or the thread at large. I have to convince the judges to put rayn back up for lynch. I also need to prove I'm town so they give me a gun.
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And I get that the judges wont give me a gun, because I'm me and I'm not useful in any meaningful sense. (lynchbait doesnt count)
But I'm still gonna try. Rayn entertaining the notion that the game was so broken that scum could read the judge qt is complete nonsense.
COMPLETE NONSENSE!!
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On August 18 2017 01:40 Jealous wrote:
I hate it when people put out one liner reads early in the game en masse like Damdred did.
also if you hate this behavior, why didn't you point out rayn and hopeless' lists way earlier on in the game?
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On August 18 2017 02:10 Conversion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2017 01:03 Jealous wrote:On August 17 2017 22:51 Conversion wrote:@Jealous On August 16 2017 05:39 Jealous wrote:
Parking on rayn until I look at FF's filter later tonight. Definitely not voting for H1 but I guess I will have to do my due diligence and look at his filter too; even though he's one of my hard town reads, that kind of false confidence and unwillingness to read filters is exactly what makes people play bad. why did you end up never doing anything you mentioned and left your vote parked on rayn? On August 16 2017 11:30 Jealous wrote:On August 16 2017 11:18 CopCake wrote:
I know the Euro people are sleeping but where are the american pride people? Finishing a paper and preparing to study for an exam I have tomorrow. I might have to put off any megaposts about FF and H1 until after I finish doing those things. I will make brief summaries though. On August 17 2017 05:03 Jealous wrote:
Something came up - won't be back until evening. Sorry all. Thanks. uh.. do I really need to timestamp you? You parked your vote on rayn, and said you're going to look into Hopeless' filter twice. don't scumlean me for "apparently started willfully not reading filters in their entirety as soon as he found something to latch onto and publish to the thread so I'll give him a scumlean on that" when you're posting lists without reading the full length of my filter. that's even less effort on your part. now show me exactly where this "latch on" behavior happens and your argument will make sense. I post my thoughts in the thread to be transparent, and you take that as an attack on your play and use words that sound like I did far more than just ask you a simple question
This post is very good. I don't really care if Jealous had to leave, that's acceptable. But he made like 20 posts where nothing was what he was going to originally do. This all is even worse if the sentiment HF presented is true, that he thought i am not mafia. Because then he intentionally left his vote on a townie and was willing to talk about anything else other than the person he didn't know their alignment and was supposed to filter.
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updated list
town
1der
cake
rit
rayn
conv
don't think he's mafia but u can never be sure
hf
the mafia should all be in here
jealous
geript
es
damdred
rels
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I am sorry i doubted you Conversion, you are now my top town.
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EPT
