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On June 30 2017 00:12 Rels wrote:
Watcher is a stupidly strong role. Even without considering if the checks make sense or not, I don't think tracker + watcher + parity cop ever makes sense. Scum can lose so hard just getting wrecked by checks by those 3 roles.
good. someone to talk to.
do you think something like:
watcher
parity cop
tracker
vet
vs
gf
rolecop
strongarm
roleblocker
might work?
lemme think
best town nightactions:
watcher/tracker find 2 scum n1
parity cop/watcher/tracker find 3 scum n2
-1 for gf
that is still 4/5 in 2 nights...
that seems really op...
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##Vote beentheredonethat
Don't think you can convince me this makes sense. But let's talk
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On June 30 2017 00:17 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2017 00:12 Rels wrote:
Watcher is a stupidly strong role. Even without considering if the checks make sense or not, I don't think tracker + watcher + parity cop ever makes sense. Scum can lose so hard just getting wrecked by checks by those 3 roles. good. someone to talk to. do you think something like: watcher parity cop tracker vet vs gf rolecop strongarm roleblocker might work? lemme think best town nightactions: watcher/tracker find 2 scum n1 parity cop/watcher/tracker find 3 scum n2 -1 for gf that is still 4/5 in 2 nights... that seems really op...
yep. Potentially all 5 scums could be identified start of D3 with ideal actions.
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yeah that is in no way the setup.
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On June 26 2017 00:07 VayneAuthority wrote:
yes, im only 1 shot vig to clarify so essentially a VT now
hurr durr this is why?
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How to Balance 101 - the Palmar way (confirmations/number of days)
Count your invs (DT of any kind, vig, town RB/banisher/JK, tracker, watcher) versus the number of mafia.
Make sure in a worst case scenario, the entire mafia team cannot get confirmed the first night (for a 3-player scumteam) or the first two nights (for a 5-player scumteam assuming a mislynch day 1 and 2.
Delayed checks (like gunsmith over a vig, or a parity DT) can help with this if you want to multiply inv roles.
Make sure the number of EVs doesn't exceed 20 percent.
(4 against 19 town is 21% for this game but this is still not really bad).
EVs (or negative EVs) are passive roles such as godfather (untrackable/check immune), ninja (untrackable but still returns red), wanderer, miller.
For a given number of blues, you need to consider adding either a mafia rolecop to eliminate the sheer threat of blue roles or an anti-blue claim mechanism (such as a factional strongman, soup kills, etc). Consider whether there is a tracker before you decide on the mechanism. You can also allow such mechanisms to happen during the day.
(there's more to this, but we takled about a lot)
notes on balance i got from half the sky when i was cohosting the outlaw game.
the setup btdt is proposing is impossible, as it would contradict the rule of:
"Make sure in a worst case scenario, the entire mafia team cannot get confirmed the first night (for a 3-player scumteam) or the first two nights (for a 5-player scumteam assuming a mislynch day 1 and 2. "
therefore fake claim.
NOW it is auto.
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Setup should be
Tracker
Watcher
Parity Cop
Veteran
vs.
Roleblocker
Rolecop
Framer
GF
Goon
plus Strongarm. Potentially with more unaware millers.
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Disformation's setup speculation is clearly showing that he is scum. It's fine if we lynch me today. Once I flip blue, game should auto to VA/disformation, lylo is going to be harder but doable.
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Of course I do prefer a VA flip as it will confirm my claim.
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And do not listen to disformation in regards to "now this is auto". The worst thing you can do now is to auto on me, then let the game die (because the follow-up to my flip will be auto lynch on VA). Instead, we should make wagons on disfo and VA to cover the given chance that disformation is town.
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On June 30 2017 00:17 Rels wrote:
##Vote beentheredonethat
Don't think you can convince me this makes sense. But let's talk
This is a wrong vote. Don't get confused by the setup speculation of disformation.
Tracker, watcher and parity cop (plus the occasional vet) is super okay as long as scum has enough roles to get away with everything - and scum having strongarm is the only possible explanation for the sicklucker flip. Remember they have full information and drunk sicklucker was all about claiming investigations at night. I think they took it for face value and shot. And who's great at taking things at face value? Right, disformation. Remember his D1, where is already believed SL's claim, only to retract that later.
This is a very possible scenario. VA being scum also explains what has happened so far: town was all about killing itself off, with disformation being the active scummer in the pack. VA, disformation, plus some mid tier activity player.
We can actually draw some lines here:
If disfo is scum #2 (>90% chance at this point), then -
Rels, BH, Skynx, rayn (super suspicious jump on me early), Ruxxar, Fecal is the lynchable pool then. Whoa harsh.
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Also, disformation's setup speculation leaves out the fact that there have been double KP for scum involved. So it actually makes a lot of sense that scum has quite a lot of investigatives.
Plus, there's this little host slip:
22)Eversince Killed Night 5 as Town Tracker
Makes it super possible that there is also a scum tracker instead of goon. Why write "town" tracker instead?
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On June 30 2017 00:45 beentheredonethat wrote:Also, disformation's setup speculation leaves out the fact that there have been double KP for scum involved. So it actually makes a lot of sense that town has quite a lot of investigatives. Plus, there's this little host slip: 22) Eversince Killed Night 5 as Town Tracker Makes it super possible that there is also a scum tracker instead of goon. Why write "town" tracker instead?
EBWOP
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doesn't matter. In your scenario, scum could mechanically lose start of D3, which is very, very unlikely. I also cohosted a lot with HTS so I know she takes balance matter pretty seriously.
Even taking into account that, you saying you watched Xata to discover who the vig is makes no sense to me.
Finally, you still didn't answer why you thought VA was legit yesterday, and now it has changed. I don't understand why you would think VA is blue - that's a lot of blue if you're also blue. I also don't understand why you didn't watch ES in that case, it was the obvious target since she could still act, unlike VA.
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(pst: ask him where 3000% cocksure skynx scumread went)
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Canada11355 Posts
On June 30 2017 00:45 beentheredonethat wrote:Also, disformation's setup speculation leaves out the fact that there have been double KP for scum involved. So it actually makes a lot of sense that scum has quite a lot of investigatives. Plus, there's this little host slip: 22) Eversince Killed Night 5 as Town Tracker Makes it super possible that there is also a scum tracker instead of goon. Why write "town" tracker instead?
This is dumb and I hate it
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On June 29 2017 22:45 beentheredonethat wrote:
If only I had let this pass. People would be all over Rels and the game would actually have a bit of sanity and decency to it
but that witch hunter after btdt is just so amazingly bad
there IS NO REASON TO SCUMREAD ME, DISFORMATION, AND YOU SAID IT SOME TIMES ALREADY, SAME AS RUXXAR, SAME AS FUCKING SKYNX
YET SOMEHOW, A PLAY THAT I DID, CONCIOUSLY, TO FIND SCUM, MAKES ME SCUM? HOW CAN YOU ALL COME TO THAT CONCLUSION? HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?
Because you try to find scum by lynching people who you think are town, and even then it doesn't further your case.
Let's live in a world where you are right and Skynx is mafia and Rels is not. After what you did Skynx actually switches to Rels and says "yeah i couldn't vote with my top scumread btdt" or whatever you baited him into doing. Then Rels flips town.
Then what? Your scumread Palmar still remains unknown. Is that better?
You can't even blame Skynx for the lynch because you gave him a perfectly logical reason to lynch Rels.
So what are you gonna do then and how does this further you figuring out the game?
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
BTDT is claiming watcher? so BTDT is claiming we have THREE investigative roles?
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EPT
