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Rels
France13467 Posts
On September 26 2016 04:46 Xatalos wrote: Well, if Lunatic is scum, I doubt scum would have the power to overturn it anyway so happy bus time? Yeah, if Lunatic is scum his team has no choice but to bus anyway, so votes are pretty NAI here | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On September 26 2016 04:50 Superbia wrote: 2 scumleans with no progression and then a pretty forced vote on luna. Don't know about that - you know that scott is low activity no matter his alignment. I didn't think neither of his reads nor his Luna vote was forced. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
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Rels
France13467 Posts
You doing a doc keeping your reads in this game too ? Could you copy paste it if that is the case please ? | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On September 26 2016 05:01 scott31337 wrote: It's been a fairly low activity game so I haven't bothered to do so. What's the alst town game where you haven't taken notes withg your reads ? | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On September 26 2016 05:04 scott31337 wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition This is kinda cheap but it means you could be scum | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On September 26 2016 05:53 scott31337 wrote: Want to post any other thoughts on the game Jealous? dat sneaky vote | ||
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Rels
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Rels
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On September 26 2016 13:30 Jealous wrote: @Scott: Interesting. I agree with quite a few of those reads. Acott, maybe you could explain what you were thinking in your vote post better? It looked pretty damn scummy in retrospect, don't you agree? Now I'm wondering how to make sense of the DHY read. Here are the options: A. They are both scum and Scott is bussing. Sadly, I don't see this as being very likely because it hasn't been that long since Calix's post so he wouldn't know if it overwhelmingly convinced town to the point where he would have to bus. OR MAYBE THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS US TO THINK! WIFOM. I also find this unlikely because the numbers would be horrendous for Scott going onwards, and there is no way he would be allowed to live to the final day. The only thing Scott would have going for him is if he is the GF and therefore if there is an investigator, they will become useless for the remainder of the game and Scott might get town cred for bussing that can't be factually revoked. B. Scott is scum, DHY is town. I think this one is self-explanatory. Scott jumps on the train early on and is doing so out of self-defense. Chances are he would still be lynched next day with a green flip on DHY, but maybe he is hoping he could weasel his way out? This would effectively leave Scott in no better a position than in A., and I find it hard to believe he has balls of this size. Perhaps he is banking on his ally pulling through; that they are someone who is highly trusted right now. C. Scott is town, DHY is scum. Again, pretty self-explanatory. Scott genuinely feels DHY is scum/is doing it to stay alive. Can't glean much from this perspective , seems logically possible. D. They are both town. Similar mindset to C, except the outcome is worse for town. Seems less likely than C but I might be tunneling and thus want to believe at least one of them must be scum. I definitely like Scott's post-accusation post better than DHY's, but DHY spent his remaining free time trying to create a case on me so didn't have time to do anything else I'm guessing. I'd like to hear what DHY comes back with in terms of reads so I can get a more solid opinion. I'd also like to see more detailed filter analysis from Scott on at least his scum reads and perhaps his soft town reads. Sigh, it's hard for me to pick which option is the most likely. If I knew more about Scott as a player (whether he has the gumption to continue playing in options A or B). What does everyone else think? I really, really don't understand your way of thinking. If scott is scum he's gonna push a mislynch. Why are you dismissing B) just because "scum!scott would have some balls to push a mislynch on DYH" ? If scott is scum and DYH town, he is merely pushing the easiest mislynch available, not making a big play! | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On September 26 2016 18:19 ptmc wrote: In my mind, there is a 50/50 on wether stutters is scum purely based on lunatics play. Stutters drops a lot of fluff into the thread, then disappears to the bar. He gets some flak for it and slight scum leans by at least Calix. Case a) Lunatic sees his scum buddy taking weak hits and wants to push him into a town pile Case b) Lunatic wants to town read someone so that he himself is townread Does anyone see other possible causes for Lunatics action? Because to me, case b) makes little sense. Case a) would make Stutters scum. Scum very rarely hard townread their teammates, especially when the teammate in question is scumread by some people, like it was the case. Stutters is like 99% town. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On September 26 2016 23:47 ptmc wrote: I went through the Lunatic trainwreck again and tried to objectively sum up what happend chronologically, open for "unbiased" read: + Show Spoiler + Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see. Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where I give my reasons why I think a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls me out because ptmc "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic. SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today" Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw. Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. Next post, scott votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him. Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like his two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work And my comments for it, marked in red stuff i think is scummy, in green things i think is towny (obviously in the light of the successful lynch) with some comments centered where i needed to say some more  + Show Spoiler + Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post this is maybe not red, but at least weird Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) again, at least weird, since it had obviously already sparked discussion DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic I guess this is Lunatics blue role claim on stutters working out as intended? Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see. Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where ptmc gives his reasons why he thinks a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls ptmc out because he "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Mafia feeling out the waters if it is bussing time? Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic. SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today" This looks so much like bussing, especially with him ignoring those posts previously Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ still no word on lunatic except the earlier "no comment" Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw. Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic i will not give green "points" from here on for voting lunatic, since the train has reached critical mass already On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote: ##Vote: Luna Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. Next post, scott votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote: Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him. Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like scotts two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work Take home message says scott had access to very bad posts by Lunatic way before he goes afk, but choses to ignore them. Only when the train has become unstoppable for mafia he "revisits" them and now they are strong enough to lynch for. Other reads from the Lunaticman-Lynch: solid town: DanelerH Calix town lean: Jealous Rels SEQ superbia (for actually noticing scott) inconsistent: Xatalos Skynx scum leans (lynch all day err'day) Scott, stutters, dyh This is quite impressive p: in particular this made me reread Jealous post where he called Lunatic's post retarded. It's very true that it's a strong word to use on your teammate so it is a town indicator for Jealous. Stutters is still 99% town because of how Lunatic treated him. And Superbia did like nothing this game yet, if scott is scum I agree that he's a unlikely partner but until that happens he's not town. Other than that, this list is pretty good | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On September 26 2016 23:53 Superbia wrote: I did the math and we should kill scott and giacomo (dyh). Alternatively there could also be a mafia between Xat or Rels. Replace my name by you and Skynx and we're OK. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On September 27 2016 00:23 Jealous wrote: That's more or less what I said. The reason it might have come off as me describing a big play is because I feel that if he succeeds in getting the lynch on a town DYH, Scott is next on the chopping block, after which we'd presumably have only 1 scum left. The reason I didn't find it likely is because it seems like an unwinnable scenario and I wasn't sure if Scott would go for it. This doesn't make sense if you think about it. If scott is scum and DYH is town, scott easiest path to survival right now is aiming for a DYH ML. It doesn't matter that it leaves him in a worse position D3 - it's better than dying D2. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On September 27 2016 00:27 ptmc wrote: Even if scott is not scum, i still think superbia deserves some credit for giving a well based scumread. I'm not sold on the Stutters Lunatic interaction. Do you have anything else that makes him town? He has a weird, unbased SEQ-read crush, and his (non-)interaction with Lunaticman was just odd D1. I have a slight feeling that he is pretty relaxed which indicates town, but it is super weak. Lunatic's hard townread on Stutters is the main reason I think Stutters is town. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On September 27 2016 00:30 ptmc wrote: I guess Jealous would rather play more passive as mafia, rather than spearheading the ML. But i see nothing AI either way, more indicative of your playstyles. I'm talking about scott here. I'm talking about how Jealous' dismissal on the scum!scott vs town!DYH scenario is bad. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On September 27 2016 00:35 ptmc wrote: I don't even think he really dismisses it, just for him (an his playstyle) it feels suboptimal. Anyway, i have to go now. Probably won't be back before the nightkill, so see you tomorrow! Well Jealous what would you expect scum!scott to do in this scenario then ? | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On September 27 2016 00:46 Jealous wrote: Forfeit was the other option to B that I was thinking about. What you're saying is of course true - dying D3 is better than dying D2, and as I said there is a chance he has a well-liked ally who Scott is putting his faith in. I was going to say that I find B/C to be the most likely variants but I wanted objective opinions from others on it before presenting my own. So if scott is scum he would likely forfeit right now rather than pushing DYH ? | ||
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