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On June 27 2016 17:46 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2016 17:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 27 2016 17:22 Superbia wrote:On June 27 2016 17:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
You're having the opposite read development as town which is weird to begin with, but you also said when I asked you earlier why you were less certain on me that it was because other people were scumreading me, yet your townread was strongest when I was still being scumread by many.
And now that many people came around on me, you put me in as your 3rd favoured check (and therefore presumably 3rd scummiest player). I find that very odd. Or you know, other reasons. I am leaning one way on you in the spectrum. I feel your play yesterday was surprisingly meh. Not the stuff people scumread you for, but your interactions with Jean. Also you EoD joining Jean on his push on me was also superlame. Like I kind of understand how your read formed but it's just bad. If you really want to we can fight about this tomorrow, but it's probably a waste of time. The reality is that if Jean genuinely considered lynching me there then the game was on the edge of being lost for no real reason and it's a good part of the reason why I did not want him to be in any position of power (personally I also despise(d) his playing style and the fact that it paid off). Evaluate on the Moosy flip. Is me bussing the most likely scenario? What in my interactions with Jean did you specifically find meh? Why did you find my play lackluster? As for joining him on your push on you, I simply disagreed it'd make him scum. I wouldn't have wanted you as the lynch though, and you still aren't my preferred lynch. I'm not sure how you'd behave around MD if he was your buddy, need to contemplate on that. That he literally bullied you into voting him. His two scum reads were you and me (iirc). And I was generally townread at the time he came around. I'm just very annoyed that people voted him even though his (scum) reads were (probably) actually pretty shit. Especially you. He hard scumread you and he had a null/scumlean on me. And I was one of the only persons who was not going with the scumArtanis flow. It boggles my mind man. Anyway I will reveal what I think on the morrow but tbh I don't expect it to make it. :D
This is a terrible way to think about things. No one knew at the time which reads were good or bad. What I did was simply to present to town a willingness to figure things out and a lay out a framework within which I would work, and people like that. People like transparency and organization. I wasn't voted because people thought I was the most right. I was voted because people trusted I would got to the greatest lengths to do the right thing, to get things done.
In the end, both my approach to the vote and my approach to scumhunting through iteration paid off handsomely. I got the presidency and I lynched mafia. Not a bad day 1!
Mafia isn't about being right, it's about convincing other people you're right.
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On June 27 2016 18:32 Superbia wrote:
A lynch on me would be the dumbest shit ever. But we can discuss this until the end of times.
You lynched my mafia instead. Good shit and good call.
We can talk about mafia meta all day but ultimately it's irrelevant. The fact is that I find mafia as town, regardless of how lazy I am. As a result, I have no reason to change my gameplay until I start being very wrong.
The hallmark of a terrible player is to think you only have one job as town when playing mafia. You have three primary responsibilities. In order of importance I'll list them up.
1) Your primary responsibility as town is to not get lynched. If all townies do nothing but that, the game is automatically won. This should be the highest priority for everyone at all times. If you don't get lynched as town, you've already raised the chances of lynching mafia significantly. There is no such thing as a bad town, just your own failure at communicating at the level required to get town to trust you.
2) The second responsibility is to influence others and interact with the group as a whole. A lone ranger is worthless to town. A player who calls out the mafia team on day 1, fails to get any of them lynched for 2 days and then gets nightkilled is completely worthless to town. Sure he's going to be an ObsQT warrior and call everyone bad, without realizing he himself is the problem. If you cannot influence other people it's irrelevant if you're right or wrong. This responsibility also includes the responsibility to allow yourself to be influenced by others. If someone is making sense, help spread the message.
3) The third responsibility is finding mafia through analysis. This is what way too many people think mafia is about. It's completely useless to find mafia if you just get yourself lynched in the process. It's of course very important to figure out mafia, but if you're unable to fulfill either your first or your second responsibility, the third one makes no difference. A player who either gets lynched, or is unable to either convince fellow townies to follow his lead, or intelligently follow and help other leaders, is completely useless to town.
I'm going to stop the lecturing now, I see you've dug yourself, for one purpose or another, into a corner and you're going to be resistant to advice for now. Just come back to this after the game, especially if you end up actually being town. You are a good player superbia, but you have to remember there's more to mafia than just writing down three names and then spamming "called it" in the ObsQT. This is a layered, complex game, not a simple one.
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On June 27 2016 18:41 Superbia wrote:Our egos are clashing and it will result in nothing productive. =/ Pretend I'm town tomorrow and let's see where that gets us? 
We'll see, but yes, I agree, we're not being productive here so I'm going to drop it for now.
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"hallmark of a terrible player" was perhaps a bit strongly worded. There's a lot of good players who fail to understand the three commandments of the townie. I guess something like "The hallmark of an incomplete player".
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On June 27 2016 18:59 Superbia wrote:
Treat others as equals, Jean.
You mean the dirty peasants? We elected officials try to minimize our contact with them.
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I tried to read through Tumblewood's filter. At least the first part of it doesn't seem to have anything outright scummy, and he seems to be at least trying to probe what is going on in the game, so there's that.
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The more I think about it the more I like my GB is mafia theory.
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On June 27 2016 20:30 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2016 19:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I think what's more important is that we start smurfhunting now.
Smurf is clearly a native english speaker. Only 48 hits on 'like', half of which being quotes eliminates Geript. I'd like to say that the egotisticalness displayed also eliminates Kita and Slam, and timezones kinda suggest a brit anyway. I'm kinda tempted to say holyflare but I don't think he'd have the energy to play atm. Marv and VE definitely wouldn't, at least not this way. Also too jolly to be DP.
I guess HF is still the most likely? This is silly and pretty pointless and I can't imagine will ever have any value. Unless you are trying to build a case that Jean is the smurf of somebody who is this tryhard and also lynched scum D1 when he didn't have too...
![[image loading]](http://assets1.bigthink.com/system/idea_thumbnails/25298/original/449px-The_Office__USA_-Dwight_Schrute.jpg?1291737714)
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On June 27 2016 23:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Yeah, you should've pardoned MD!
He is probably talking about the bodyguard.
This is the one thing that's going to be extremely helpful in deducing GlowingBear's alignment. His choice of bodyguard is very, very important. Do not let him get away with anything less than a full explanation for his choice and make sure it fits his thinking and approach.
In addition, this is just speculation, but at some point in the game it may be a good idea to claim the bodyguard role. The reason is quite simple. We probably have some blues the mafia is going to be looking into shooting. A claimed bodyguard is a massive annoyance to mafia because if they want to eliminate me they have to first kill the bodyguard (if I understand the rules correctly).
That means two extra nights for our blue roles to do their job.
Also, this is more long term, but there is no world where we have named townie + 3 blue roles. That would be excessive, so if a situation comes up where the claims look like that, be very vary of the claims and start making hard decisions on blue roles.
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On June 28 2016 00:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Chez, my friend, I would like to know where your head's at after the night ends. Is there anyone setting off your colour blind alarm?
Chez has been unimpressive so far. There's always a certain leeway with him, because you can usually count on him showing up to actually do stuff later in the game, but this is getting both annoying and suspicious. I don't trust quiet revolutionaries.
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On June 28 2016 00:49 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2016 00:25 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 27 2016 23:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 27 2016 23:40 GlowingBear wrote:
I may have made a huge mistake Yeah, you should've pardoned MD! He is probably talking about the bodyguard. This is the one thing that's going to be extremely helpful in deducing GlowingBear's alignment. His choice of bodyguard is very, very important. Do not let him get away with anything less than a full explanation for his choice and make sure it fits his thinking and approach. In addition, this is just speculation, but at some point in the game it may be a good idea to claim the bodyguard role. The reason is quite simple. We probably have some blues the mafia is going to be looking into shooting. A claimed bodyguard is a massive annoyance to mafia because if they want to eliminate me they have to first kill the bodyguard (if I understand the rules correctly). That means two extra nights for our blue roles to do their job. Also, this is more long term, but there is no world where we have named townie + 3 blue roles. That would be excessive, so if a situation comes up where the claims look like that, be very vary of the claims and start making hard decisions on blue roles. I think it's a little early to be discussing this.
How about you deliver me some mafia instead of telling people what they should or should not discuss. Go forth my minion and find mafia, then deliver me their heads. I shall make quick judgement of your successes or failures.
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On June 28 2016 01:27 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2016 01:08 emperorchampion wrote:On June 28 2016 00:48 Tictock wrote:On June 27 2016 23:13 emperorchampion wrote:On June 27 2016 21:12 Tictock wrote:
Yea thats the one.
The whole switch of choice over who to lynch is what makes this an imposing EoD to reread. Not only do I need to look at why people voted who they did for mayor, but when that happened in correlation with who the mayor claimed would be the lynch.
That's why I've had issues with Damdred's filter kus his vote and reads were all over the place EoD. Said he didn't trust GB to be mayor kus he's "wishy-washy" or something, voted GB. Pressed Jean to Lynch me and semi-defended Moosy, voted Jean right before EoD who claimed he was going to lynch Moosy.
Like the switch at the end seems towny because Moosy was scum, but nothing about how he got there makes any sense to me. Damdred has stated at least once his reasons for switching, this post feels very fluffy It sounds like you disagree with my read then and presumably you think Damdred is town. So what am I not seeing? Why is Damdred town? While we are at it, who are you scumreading Emp? I think Damdred stated fairly clearly why he switched his vote. I will discuss reads more during the day phase, but my post does not make any assumptions of damdred's alignment. I am uneasy with how you are coming to your own conclusion in your post about damdred's actions, rather than evaluating what he has already posted. It makes more sense to me to maybe say, "oh I don't believe that you switched your votes for this reason, here is why I think you actually switched votes..." then continue on to your post or something. But I don't see any of that. Ok I'm just going to assume you are mafia with Damdred then.
Is this something you genuinely believe?
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On June 27 2016 00:06 Jean Valjean wrote:
Or rather, he has made a ton of posts, most of which deal with his own ability play the game. Do you think it's reasonable for him to just stall, stall, stall as mafia? Is he smart/dumb enough to do that correctly (depending on how functional the town is, it can either be a smart or a dumb move).
Also you, just like Artanis, have put yourself in a situation where you just townread everyone except for a few afk players.
As with Artanis, you are another player that has no excuse to scumread me at present, so I'll do you the favor of adding myself to your townlist. This means you're townreading the following people:
Artanis
Damdred
Chez
Tumble
Superbia
Jean
QT
In addition, you townread GB and I'm going to throw in Skynx as an unlikely mafia, although feel free to disagree with me on that.
That's 9/13 players already in your town circle, and your lynch list looks something like this:
Moosy
Jealous
Tictock
emperorchampion
So, trolls, new players, low content people and sure, tictock. Maybe add Skynx to that list?
Look over your own reads again and think, do you believe this is the most reasonable solution to the game Damdred?
It was the most reasonable solution to the game...
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On June 28 2016 06:54 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2016 06:25 GlowingBear wrote:
Confirmed town, impossible to be killed at night.
This is perfect So let me get this clear on paper: you claim Vigi?
yes he's claiming vigilante, and superbia is claiming tracker.
Both are believable claims, mostly because ticktock is the scummiest player in the thread and it makes no sense for mafia to fakeclaim right now.
I think we just won.
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On June 28 2016 08:29 Tictock wrote:
Lol that people are voting me.
Maybe I'll actually get caught up to find out why.
there's a track claim on you, and we have two dead mafia.
ie: if you're scum it's concede time.
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On June 28 2016 08:41 Tictock wrote:Either you just fucked up SUPER bad (see what i did there?) as scum... Or this is the worst fakeclaim on this site since December.
So you're contesting the claim? Fine.
I assume you're also ok with lynching you then Superbia, because either way it's an auto win.
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Hey guys, I'm partially unavailable today, and probably tomorrow too. I am sorry for that, I should have more time to contribute on thursday.
I will try to make sense of what is going on in a little while, also I'm not particularly bothered about what we kill today.
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Yeah I'm not mafia guys.
I'm going to go out on a massive limb, explain nothing and talkt to you tomorrow. I think Chez might be the last mafia.
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On June 29 2016 18:36 Superbia wrote:But I'm going to see what Jean does first
Mostly: not much.
I am, as explained, busy today. This has nothing to do with my alignment, simply real life obligations.
I am not caught up on the previous day.
I invite anyone who thinks voting me is a good idea to go back and read my approach and contributions on day 1. I am going to try my best not to be an asshole about it, even if lynching the most articulate and helpful player in town who lynched mafia on day 1 on day 2 is... well... very special.
My current thoughts, explained briefly are as follows:
My spat with superbia during the night made me feel better about him. Specifically the post where he talked about aiming for being so right that people had no choice but to listen to him showed a sort of a defiant attitude that is far more likely to come from a townie.
Superbia's fakeclaim was really bad. It changes how we view tictock. Tictock obviously knew the claim was fake, but that could simply be because he knew who delivered the mafia nk. I think he still requires some looking at. Tictock's responses during the night weren't very townie, although I'm not sure at all. Another thing is that this is the time where I'd expect tictock to come in and start actually figuring out the rest of the game.
Artanis and Skynx are two players who really, really need to contribute more.
I still think Jealous doesn't sound like mafia, but I'm weighing him on the "newbie scale", which might be a mistake.
Chez, more than anyone else, has been extremely underwhelming. He has not yet provided a single colored list with the classic insights that he almost always does. He is not helping us solve the game, which despite his trolling he almost always does.
I'm going to move my vote on Chez for these reasons.
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EPT
