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On June 26 2016 19:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 19:15 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I've never seen you truly try as mafia, Slam. I've seen you truly try as town and you've had incredible games there. I don't see why not hard townreading you would be proving I'm scum, that's a very loaded statement. You don't know whether or not my alternate identity is Slam. Applying some meta that might be completely wrong is dumb. The sentence is loaded because it should be. The way I've approached pressuring you is not something many players on this site are capable of doing as mafia. To think I'm mafia, one or two things kinda have to be true. 1) you must think I am excellent at playing scum 2) you must not have noticed the kind of pressure being put on you is not something normal or off-hand The simple conclusion to my alignment, assuming I'm not some scum-god, is that I must be town because there's almost no one capable of doing what I have been doing as mafia. So yes, the statement is loaded, because it is intended to be. It's not that hard to kick a puppy that's already being kicked by a few others. Plus, knowing I'm town means I know you're tunneling on town, which has plenty of mafia reasoning behind it. The fact that you're trying so hard to use it as leverage to get townread also diminishes its worth as clearly you're very aware of what you're doing.
I am perfectly aware of what I am doing Artanis, I am very smart.
I am also perceptive enough to undestand why what you're doing right now is not logical. For example, when Skynx pushed you with weaker and less coherent reasons, and put less force behind the push than I am doing now, you simply wrote him off as town for the very fact that he wrote a case on you.
For some reason I'm not getting the same treatment. If anything, my points are better thought out and more valid than Skynx', so why am I not getting the same treatment?
Objectively, I have, in this conversation and the previous one, put you on the defense. How many scum players on TL can put you on defense when you're town? I understand other players do not have to townread me, they're not you. But you, specifically, should really be changing your mind about my alignment right now.
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I am announcing a late candidacy to become Monsieur le maire.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Sd9eI0P.png)
I know I have not had the time to contribute as much as I'd like over this cycle, but that will change during the next one. More importantly, what I contribute tends to be very clear, focused, and easy to read. I do not engage in frivolous exchanges about irrelevant points, making my filter very clear to read. I bring experience, leadership and directness to the office. My platform consists of three general ideas.
Accountability: I do not intend to let anyone get away with half-assed or unexplained reads. When someone makes a statement without explaining it or backing it up in any way, I will be there to push him on it. I will make sure people don't get to slide away with inane statements, forcing them to actually explain what they mean.
Transparency: I write precise, constructed posts that are a pleasure to read, my words are stimulating and entertaining, wise and thoughtful, concise and powerful. I post sparingly making my own filter much easier to read for you the citizens. You will always have all the information needed to make a judgement on my alignment.
Organization: I am, by nature, a planner. I am willing to help set up ideas in a way that makes town more likely to be successful. I will help identify targets, create factions and force people to take stances. I will help eliminate options that seem unlikely and thus help create a more constructed game, something TL Mafia desperately needs.
Lastly, I want to point out that should I fail to win the election, and instead be relegated to the role of Pardoner, I will never use that role. If I am unable to convince town that a lynch is bad using my personal charm and charisma, I will not resort to using a role. If I am Pardoner, I should be automatically killed for ever using that role.
In conclusion, I think I am qualified to take on the role of mayor. I think it's also fitting thematically with my name, so that's a bonus. I will continue to help town move forward in a way that will benefit the public, the citizens, and not the mafia.
I will fight for you!
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On June 26 2016 19:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 19:23 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 19:15 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I've never seen you truly try as mafia, Slam. I've seen you truly try as town and you've had incredible games there. I don't see why not hard townreading you would be proving I'm scum, that's a very loaded statement. You don't know whether or not my alternate identity is Slam. Applying some meta that might be completely wrong is dumb. The sentence is loaded because it should be. The way I've approached pressuring you is not something many players on this site are capable of doing as mafia. To think I'm mafia, one or two things kinda have to be true. 1) you must think I am excellent at playing scum 2) you must not have noticed the kind of pressure being put on you is not something normal or off-hand The simple conclusion to my alignment, assuming I'm not some scum-god, is that I must be town because there's almost no one capable of doing what I have been doing as mafia. So yes, the statement is loaded, because it is intended to be. It's not that hard to kick a puppy that's already being kicked by a few others. Plus, knowing I'm town means I know you're tunneling on town, which has plenty of mafia reasoning behind it. The fact that you're trying so hard to use it as leverage to get townread also diminishes its worth as clearly you're very aware of what you're doing. I am perfectly aware of what I am doing Artanis, I am very smart. I am also perceptive enough to undestand why what you're doing right now is not logical. For example, when Skynx pushed you with weaker and less coherent reasons, and put less force behind the push than I am doing now, you simply wrote him off as town for the very fact that he wrote a case on you. For some reason I'm not getting the same treatment. If anything, my points are better thought out and more valid than Skynx', so why am I not getting the same treatment? Objectively, I have, in this conversation and the previous one, put you on the defense. How many scum players on TL can put you on defense when you're town? I understand other players do not have to townread me, they're not you. But you, specifically, should really be changing your mind about my alignment right now. Because Skynx is a newbie and you're, as you put it, very smart, and probably have a lot of experience in playing mafia. I use different bars for different players.
I do like that I managed to put you in a corner where your options were
a) call me awesome
b) call yourself mafia
Anyway, I think I'll leave you for now, but that doesn't mean you're out of danger. You are currently the lynch target for my mayoral campaign, and will remain so. There's two reasons I'm not going to bother with you for a while, the first one is that I need to read up on other players to better flesh out my platform and vision for this game, and secondly it's just mean to run up the score when you're so thoroughly trouncing your opponent.
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On June 26 2016 19:42 Superbia wrote:
TT/Jean/Art, do any of you feel different about each other?
TT/Jean, how do you feel about the other?
I have not read up on TT, it's one of the things I have planned for further analysis.
I remain highly suspicious of Artanis, and almost everything he does is just adding to it. The latest problem I have is how easily he's letting me wipe the floor with him on the debate stage, he is one of the stronger players on TL Mafia and he doesn't stand a chance.
I think it's healthy for me to take a step back from him for a while and come back with a clear head to make sure I'm not just confirmation biasing myself into his lynch, but I think my feelings on him are very clearly explained in my recent posts.
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On June 26 2016 19:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 19:41 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 19:23 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 19:15 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 19:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I've never seen you truly try as mafia, Slam. I've seen you truly try as town and you've had incredible games there. I don't see why not hard townreading you would be proving I'm scum, that's a very loaded statement. You don't know whether or not my alternate identity is Slam. Applying some meta that might be completely wrong is dumb. The sentence is loaded because it should be. The way I've approached pressuring you is not something many players on this site are capable of doing as mafia. To think I'm mafia, one or two things kinda have to be true. 1) you must think I am excellent at playing scum 2) you must not have noticed the kind of pressure being put on you is not something normal or off-hand The simple conclusion to my alignment, assuming I'm not some scum-god, is that I must be town because there's almost no one capable of doing what I have been doing as mafia. So yes, the statement is loaded, because it is intended to be. It's not that hard to kick a puppy that's already being kicked by a few others. Plus, knowing I'm town means I know you're tunneling on town, which has plenty of mafia reasoning behind it. The fact that you're trying so hard to use it as leverage to get townread also diminishes its worth as clearly you're very aware of what you're doing. I am perfectly aware of what I am doing Artanis, I am very smart. I am also perceptive enough to undestand why what you're doing right now is not logical. For example, when Skynx pushed you with weaker and less coherent reasons, and put less force behind the push than I am doing now, you simply wrote him off as town for the very fact that he wrote a case on you. For some reason I'm not getting the same treatment. If anything, my points are better thought out and more valid than Skynx', so why am I not getting the same treatment? Objectively, I have, in this conversation and the previous one, put you on the defense. How many scum players on TL can put you on defense when you're town? I understand other players do not have to townread me, they're not you. But you, specifically, should really be changing your mind about my alignment right now. Because Skynx is a newbie and you're, as you put it, very smart, and probably have a lot of experience in playing mafia. I use different bars for different players. I do like that I managed to put you in a corner where your options were a) call me awesome b) call yourself mafia Anyway, I think I'll leave you for now, but that doesn't mean you're out of danger. You are currently the lynch target for my mayoral campaign, and will remain so. There's two reasons I'm not going to bother with you for a while, the first one is that I need to read up on other players to better flesh out my platform and vision for this game, and secondly it's just mean to run up the score when you're so thoroughly trouncing your opponent. I will probably spite lynch you if you keep this up btw. Your ego's choking out the game.
"The zebra bravely announces he'll eat the lion".
Good luck Artanis.
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On June 26 2016 19:42 Superbia wrote:
TT/Jean/Art, do any of you feel different about each other?
TT/Jean, how do you feel about the other?
An initial quick read of his filter (without looking into posts for context) suggests that tonally he sounds like a townie. I like his lightly explained, yet reasonable attacks on Damdred and Artanis.
I would like Ticktock to actually contribute in a longer form because I know he is a very capable scumhunter. His further insight might both help us reveal information about the game, and about his own alignment.
Very tentatively I'll say that I think he's town for now.
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It looks like we're yet again at odds Artanis!
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On June 26 2016 20:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 20:01 Superbia wrote:On June 26 2016 19:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 19:55 Superbia wrote:
What about TT art? Still my strongest scumread. Nothing in our exchange made me really reconsider. Asking about who I'd vote for mayor feels like a useless question too, not sure what he was planning on getting out of that when I had already posted my reads. Do you feel like scum are wagoning you right now? Both TT and Jean now think you are scum. Are they both mafia aligning? I think the wagon was started by town and there's probably one or two scum on there. I'm mildly leaning town on Jean. Still lynching him.
This begs two questions.
1) Who is on the wagon?
2) Who is the townie who started the wagon?
And those two should really help us figure out the game from your perspective.
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On June 26 2016 20:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 20:08 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 20:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 20:01 Superbia wrote:On June 26 2016 19:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 26 2016 19:55 Superbia wrote:
What about TT art? Still my strongest scumread. Nothing in our exchange made me really reconsider. Asking about who I'd vote for mayor feels like a useless question too, not sure what he was planning on getting out of that when I had already posted my reads. Do you feel like scum are wagoning you right now? Both TT and Jean now think you are scum. Are they both mafia aligning? I think the wagon was started by town and there's probably one or two scum on there. I'm mildly leaning town on Jean. Still lynching him. This begs two questions. 1) Who is on the wagon? 2) Who is the townie who started the wagon? And those two should really help us figure out the game from your perspective. Started by Tumble. Joined by QT, GB, [long gap] TT, Skynx, you is what I can gather. MD's also been mildly flailing some suspicion but I have no idea if he actually scumread me or not. Tumble's kinda come around on me, think he's leaning town on me atm. I think TT is likely scum, GB kinda null maybe edging towards scummy by PoE and lack of caring (he has issues being active as scum), and you're leaning town. The others I'm town on.
Elaborate as much on GB as you can please. That would be supremely helpful.
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I will deliberately ignore Moosy and Chezinu for now. While my time is limited I think it is better spent reading people who are actually attempting to play the game. I hope they get checked at some point just to relieve me of the headache of figuring them out.
That means I just have a few more filters to go through before the end of the day. I very much think GB is someone that needs to be looked into, and then there's Jelaous who I don't even remember posting at all.
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On June 26 2016 20:20 Superbia wrote:Man, your read on me is superweak.
Hence, your primary category is "Null". If you would like for me to change my read on you, start finding mafia and you shall be swiftly rewarded. Go through someone's filter, build a case. You're not pushing anyone, you're not doing anything decisive. Even if I'm completely wrong on Artanis, I'm building a case, presenting evidence and pushing things forward in a way that will help the game. You're at best on the sidelines asking marginally relevant questions and providing uninteresting oneliners about people's alignment
I barely even know who you think is mafia or who you want to lynch, yet you're a candidate for the mayoral office? How do you expect to win votes like that?
Convince me on something, hell convince me Artanis is town, and I'll gladly throw my vote behind you. But as of now you deserve very little. You have 5 pages of filter and I can't even remember you calling anyone strongly mafia.
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On June 26 2016 20:24 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 20:21 Jean Valjean wrote:
I will deliberately ignore Moosy and Chezinu for now. While my time is limited I think it is better spent reading people who are actually attempting to play the game. I hope they get checked at some point just to relieve me of the headache of figuring them out.
That means I just have a few more filters to go through before the end of the day. I very much think GB is someone that needs to be looked into, and then there's Jelaous who I don't even remember posting at all. 2nd person to say he's fine with ignoring moosy. Cool. And then you ping out jealous. Right after you say you want to go after people who are actually playing the game.
I do not know Jealous, I do not know if he is compulsively useless every game.
I do know that about Chez and Moosy.
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Also I contest the statement I am a dick. I have been very polite in the way I've pushed you Artanis, I've used mature language and thoroughly explained my read all the way along. The only reason you think I am a dick is because you're on the wrong end of a ten ton lynching machine, that is always uncomfortable.
I am justice, not spite.
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On June 26 2016 20:28 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 20:25 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 20:20 Superbia wrote:Man, your read on me is superweak. Hence, your primary category is "Null". If you would like for me to change my read on you, start finding mafia and you shall be swiftly rewarded. Go through someone's filter, build a case. You're not pushing anyone, you're not doing anything decisive. Even if I'm completely wrong on Artanis, I'm building a case, presenting evidence and pushing things forward in a way that will help the game. You're at best on the sidelines asking marginally relevant questions and providing uninteresting oneliners about people's alignment I barely even know who you think is mafia or who you want to lynch, yet you're a candidate for the mayoral office? How do you expect to win votes like that? Convince me on something, hell convince me Artanis is town, and I'll gladly throw my vote behind you. But as of now you deserve very little. You have 5 pages of filter and I can't even remember you calling anyone strongly mafia. By the way you talked about me suggests that you know my meta. Tell me, is any of what you have said reminiscent of how I play town? x;
I do not care how you play town. I care about how I want you to play town and how I know you're capable of playing town. I want you to summarize, be decisive and push not because I think that's your town meta, but because I think that is the best way you can be useful to the game if you are indeed town.
There's very few things I care less about than your own sense of "my town meta".
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On June 26 2016 20:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I could also make statements such as "I've clearly put in a tonne of effort and thought into the game which means you have to townread me or claim scum", but it's just.. dickish. It really is.
No it's not, because it's accurate.
The statement is made to push an agenda. It's based on a fleshed out idea of how good you are at the game and how I assume you would respond to certain points and ideas. It's also designed to put you in an uncomfortable situation with very few outs, not because I am a dick, but because I am actively investigating your alignment.
Yes, if I think you're mafia I will push you around. That is a quality in me you should embrace, not bemoan, but I guess I also harder to appreciate when you're the butt of the joke.
The reason you can't make the same statement back at me is because you cannot back it up. You do not have any kind of a case against me, and thus it would make no sense.
I forgive you Artanis, I think you're a good person, I just think you're mafia.
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Explain to me why I am wrong on Ticktock Artanis.
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On June 26 2016 21:19 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2016 20:30 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 20:28 Superbia wrote:On June 26 2016 20:25 Jean Valjean wrote:On June 26 2016 20:20 Superbia wrote:Man, your read on me is superweak. Hence, your primary category is "Null". If you would like for me to change my read on you, start finding mafia and you shall be swiftly rewarded. Go through someone's filter, build a case. You're not pushing anyone, you're not doing anything decisive. Even if I'm completely wrong on Artanis, I'm building a case, presenting evidence and pushing things forward in a way that will help the game. You're at best on the sidelines asking marginally relevant questions and providing uninteresting oneliners about people's alignment I barely even know who you think is mafia or who you want to lynch, yet you're a candidate for the mayoral office? How do you expect to win votes like that? Convince me on something, hell convince me Artanis is town, and I'll gladly throw my vote behind you. But as of now you deserve very little. You have 5 pages of filter and I can't even remember you calling anyone strongly mafia. By the way you talked about me suggests that you know my meta. Tell me, is any of what you have said reminiscent of how I play town? x; I do not care how you play town. I care about how I want you to play town and how I know you're capable of playing town. I want you to summarize, be decisive and push not because I think that's your town meta, but because I think that is the best way you can be useful to the game if you are indeed town. There's very few things I care less about than your own sense of "my town meta". Can I conclude from this is that you think I'm town? I'm basically asking you "how are you evaluating my alignment?" and you're answering with "this is how I want you to play".
That is because I cannot accurately evaluate your alignment until you've provided me with material to work with. No I not think you're town, but I'm also not sold on you being mafia. If your contributions remain to just not do anything and not commit to figuring out the game, then I will be forced to make the call based on more vague evidence.
So yes, currently i'm judging some kind of a vague idea of how smart, sophisticated and analytical I think you can be against what is the reality this game. It's less about tone or meta, and more about just the very content of your posts, and the thought process behind them. Currently I see a player I consider smart and definitely capable of being useful wasting that talent and making no conclusions from it. If that is all I get from you, so be it. If I am wrong because you simply wanted to keep intact some bullshit meta, then so be it too.
See, I know the TL meta lets people get away with being lazy, useless and bad. But I'm not here to adhere to anyone else's meta, I'm building my own.
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This is pretty important. Damdred, can I count on your support to the presidency?
In addition, I'd like for some of the more obvious supporters of my campaign, like stynx, QT and Tictock to start endorsing the campaign.
As for the person I will lynch, it is most likely going to be Artanis. I will re-read him before making a final decision, but I am fairly confident he's going to flip mafia. The alternatives are essentally lynching into the afk people or trolls (chez, moosy, GB and Jealous) There is absolutely mafia in that group but I do not know which ones.
I am also awaiting some colored Chez lists, those will be a great help in understanding his motivations this game.
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What in Jealous' play in particular is setting off your scumsenses, or is it just a straight up policy lynch for low activity?
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EPT
